Gemuser
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Virgin Blue Has New Controlling Shareholder

Sun Apr 16, 2006 8:44 am

Saturdays Sydney Morning Herald is reporting that the Toll bid for Patricks has suddenly succeded on Friday. See:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/business/...rick/2006/04/14/1144521506700.html

Which means DJ has a new controlling shareholder and deals with Sir Richard are likley. For details see:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/business/...take/2006/04/14/1144521506723.html

Gemuser
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cedarjet
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RE: Virgin Blue Has New Controlling Shareholder

Sun Apr 16, 2006 9:08 am

I hear Branson's losing his shirt with the Virgin Atlantic flight to Sydney, which absolutely amazes me, he could be kicking arse with Virgin Blue's domestic feed, shared flight numbers for (say) Hobart-London or Canberra-London, it involves changing terminals but the same is true if you fly QF or BA with domestic connections. He could have a great set up in Oz but doesn't seem to be persuing it - get Virgin Blue flying to LA, there's an RTW network with plenty of feed in both directions, to LA and to Europe / vv. (Also on 'things to do list': buy British Midland for a quid.)
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
AEROFAN
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RE: Virgin Blue Has New Controlling Shareholder

Sun Apr 16, 2006 9:11 am

I seem to recall reading somewhere that SRB wanted this to happen as well. Apparently there was a falling out between him and Patricks
 
Gemuser
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RE: Virgin Blue Has New Controlling Shareholder

Sun Apr 16, 2006 9:19 am

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 1):
I hear Branson's losing his shirt with the Virgin Atlantic flight to Sydney

From what I hear, its not LHR-SYD-LHR that is loosing money, but HKG-SYD-HKG. That is the whole flight is profitable, but not the HKG-SYD sector. Given the load factor and yeilds on LHR-HKG, this is belivable. That is substainable for a while, but not indefinately.

Is the second LHR-HKG flight happening? If that improves things, then LHR-SYD should still be there when SYD-LAX is ready. Although Toll could delay/screw things up, see second article in thread starter.

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cedarjet
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RE: Virgin Blue Has New Controlling Shareholder

Sun Apr 16, 2006 10:42 am

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 3):
From what I hear, its not LHR-SYD-LHR that is loosing money, but HKG-SYD-HKG. That is the whole flight is profitable, but not the HKG-SYD sector. Given the load factor and yeilds on LHR-HKG, this is belivable.

So what you're saying is, LHR-HKG is really popular and there aren't enough seats in the system to accomodate both destinations? LHR-HKG is so busy that two thirds of the seats on the second leg are empty cos people who wanted to fly right through to Sydney couldn't be accomodated on the first leg to Honkers?

In which case, a second LHR-HKG terminator will be good if they can get it. I wonder if they considered moving the Sydney flight to a different stopover in Asia, and added a new station at the same time, ie Kuala Lumpur or Chennai.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Gemuser
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RE: Virgin Blue Has New Controlling Shareholder

Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:51 pm

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 4):
So what you're saying is, LHR-HKG is really popular and there aren't enough seats in the system to accomodate both destinations? LHR-HKG is so busy that two thirds of the seats on the second leg are empty cos people who wanted to fly right through to Sydney couldn't be accomodated on the first leg to Honkers?

My understanding of the sitution is that that is exactly what happens. Hence the desire for a second terminating flight.

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 4):
In which case, a second LHR-HKG terminator will be good if they can get it. I wonder if they considered moving the Sydney flight to a different stopover in Asia, and added a new station at the same time, ie Kuala Lumpur or Chennai.

While in theory a good idea, it is difficult to pull off. I think VS still serve KL via a code share on MH or this may have ceased. One of the Malaysian member was saying in another thread that a UK carrier would have problems getting into Malaysia, I admit I did not understand what he ment, so I dont know. Also other bilaterals can be problems, I dont know if a service via India would fit into the Uks agreements with both India and Australia.


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flyjetstar
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RE: Virgin Blue Has New Controlling Shareholder

Sun Apr 16, 2006 5:44 pm

Quoting Gemuser (Thread starter):
Which means DJ has a new controlling shareholder and deals with Sir Richard are likley. For details see:

I am wondering what kind of deals there would be. I know there was a pre-existing agreement between Little and Branson but I heard a radio report yesterday confirming the article comments and it left me wondering if there might be trouble ahead for Branson and that it might not be as easy as Branson is hoping. Can the agreement be broken/changed/altered in anyway?
 
bill142
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RE: Virgin Blue Has New Controlling Shareholder

Sun Apr 16, 2006 9:23 pm

Quoting Flyjetstar (Reply 6):
I am wondering what kind of deals there would be. I know there was a pre-existing agreement between Little and Branson but I heard a radio report yesterday confirming the article comments and it left me wondering if there might be trouble ahead for Branson and that it might not be as easy as Branson is hoping. Can the agreement be broken/changed/altered in anyway?

The agreement only kicked in once Toll gained control of Patrick. While the board has agreed and the ACCC has agreed in principal to the deal, one would assume that the agreement dosn't fully kick in untill all shareholder and regulatory approvals are gained. After the transaction is complete the SMH article seems to suggest that Toll can sell to Virgin at its leisure, and gives them a discount on upto 15% of share purchased. The article also seems to suggest that Toll has upto 1 month after gaining control of Patrick to conlcude a deal with Virgin, otherwise penalties are to be paid to Virgin.
 
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Richard28
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RE: Virgin Blue Has New Controlling Shareholder

Sun Apr 16, 2006 9:53 pm

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 4):
So what you're saying is, LHR-HKG is really popular and there aren't enough seats in the system to accomodate both destinations? LHR-HKG is so busy that two thirds of the seats on the second leg are empty cos people who wanted to fly right through to Sydney couldn't be accomodated on the first leg to Honkers?

thats apparantly correct, a second HKG frequency by VS is apparently planned for later this year.

Having said that, I flew HKG-SYD in J on VS in Feb, and it was full, not one seat spare.
 
AEROFAN
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RE: Virgin Blue Has New Controlling Shareholder

Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:02 am

I also flew VS LHR-HKG-SYD last Novemeber. It was a superb flight and as you experienced Richard, all 45 seats in J were taken both going an coming. This routes seems to be quite profitable to Virgin
 
Crosscountry
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RE: Virgin Blue Has New Controlling Shareholder

Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:27 am

Sunday Times here in the UK reported SRB is ready to make a deal to take a controlling share in Virgin Blue.
 
MaartenV
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RE: Virgin Blue Has New Controlling Shareholder

Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:40 am

Why did he sell his controlling share anyway? Isn't the whole idea of having a global network of airlines, like Virgin, to work together and benefit from eachother. Shared marketing campaigns (a big piece of the flying public will link them anyway), buy fuel together, code-share and keep the brand reputation at a high level. When you loose control over a company that bears the same name and operates in the samen business, as a company you do still control, you risk problems. I've met a lot of people who confuse Virgin Express from BRU, with Virgin Atlantic (which was in those cases bad for Virgin Atlantic), although these companies have little more in common then their name.
Its all about supply and demand...
 
CX747
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RE: Virgin Blue Has New Controlling Shareholder

Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:07 am

If there is a capacity issue, why doesn't VS operate the 747-400 on the route? Passenger -400s shouldn't be hard to come by.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
jacobin777
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RE: Virgin Blue Has New Controlling Shareholder

Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:20 pm

of interest..........

fair use excerpt:

"Temasek recently dumped its 3% share in Qantas after the Australian government rejected SIA's annual bid to gain access to the Australia-US market (ATWOnline, Feb. 22). Analysts suggest that Temasek may team up with Branson to gain a controlling stake in Virgin Blue, with Virgin Group holding 40% and Temasek 49%.

Services to the US probably would be launched with 747s leased from SIA, swapping to 777s once operational experience allowed ETOPS."

http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=4737
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CX747
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RE: Virgin Blue Has New Controlling Shareholder

Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:48 am

Very interesting indeed! Is it certain that Virgin Blue will be allowed to operate to the US? I know that the only carriers flying between the two countries are Qantas and United.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
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Richard28
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RE: Virgin Blue Has New Controlling Shareholder

Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:09 am

Quoting CX747 (Reply 12):
If there is a capacity issue, why doesn't VS operate the 747-400 on the route? Passenger -400s shouldn't be hard to come by.

I think its been said before that it could be the A346 has holds more cargo than the 744.

VS have not got many 744's based at LHR now, so to put 3 on the LHR-HKG-SYD route would also mean a cut in capacity (particularly in the Y cabin) on some other (mainly North American) routes.
 
Gemuser
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RE: Virgin Blue Has New Controlling Shareholder

Tue Apr 18, 2006 2:33 pm

Quoting CX747 (Reply 14):
Very interesting indeed! Is it certain that Virgin Blue will be allowed to operate to the US? I know that the only carriers flying between the two countries are Qantas and United.

There are currently 3 US airline operating between the US and Australia. UA LAX/SFO-SYD/MEL, HA HNL-SYD & CO GUM-CNS. So another couple of Oz airlines should not be a problem.

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CX747
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RE: Virgin Blue Has New Controlling Shareholder

Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:28 pm

How many carriers from each country operate LAX/SFO-SYD/MEL? Is there a restriction in place?
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
Gemuser
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RE: Virgin Blue Has New Controlling Shareholder

Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:38 pm

Quoting CX747 (Reply 17):
How many carriers from each country operate LAX/SFO-SYD/MEL? Is there a restriction in place?

NO restriction is in place except you have to operate a minimum of 4 services per week (ie the airline has to operate 4 per week, not 4 per week per route.)

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