amirs
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Sun Apr 16, 2006 7:00 pm

There was a thread here talking about the possibility of EL AL buying Airbus A330's by flyprivate.
I thought EL Al was only trying to tease Boeing with the negotiations they were having with Airbus.
Apparently LY is going ahead and getting A330 (not A350) to replace the ageing 767's.
I am a bit upseat, I thought they would go with newer technology aircrafts.
I guess they really need the new planes, and they couldn't wait til 2010 to get 787's.  
Maybe they will be able to close a deal with Boeing to buy back the A330 and replace tem with 787 in 2010.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/a...tails.jhtml?sw=el+al&itemNo=706217

El Al to buy Airbus for first time
by Zohar Blumenkrantz


For the first time in its history, national air carrier El Al (TASE: ELAL) has decided to buy Airbus jets, snubbing its traditional supplier, Boeing.
TheMarker has learned that a delegation of high-level Airbus executives is about to sign a contract and financing arrangements with the heads of the Israeli airline.
A series of meetings, held under a veil of secrecy, ended Tuesday night at the Ramat Hahayal offices of the Borovich-Mozes group, which bought the controlling interest in El Al from the state.
It was agreed that Airbus financial experts will come to Israel immediately after Passover to iron out financial details of the deal.
Airbus has tried hard to hawk its planes to Israel, with no success until now.
According to the plan drafted last week in the secret meetings, El Al will buy eight A-330 Airbus aircraft, which will replace Boeing 767 passenger jets. The deal, including spare parts, is estimated at $500 million.
Banks associated with the European Union will provide credit to finance the deal, in a similar fashion to the credit El Al has received in the past for deals with Boeing. The loans and credit will be repaid over a 14-year period.
Airbus committed to a three-year delivery schedule from the date the deal is signed.
The deal is subject to the approval of the El Al board of directors as well as the board of the Airbus consortium.


[Edited 2006-04-16 12:05:35]

[Edited 2006-04-16 12:07:20]
 
MEA-707
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Sun Apr 16, 2006 7:18 pm

A great moral boost Airbus needs right now to win a first order of El Al !
Proves the A-330 isn't dead yet (if it was outdated crap El Al would have waited for the 787) and chances are high they will have a TAP/Finnair like deal to roll over to A-350s a few years later.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
FlySSC
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Sun Apr 16, 2006 7:25 pm

Quoting Amirs (Thread starter):
I am a bit upseat, I thought they would go with newer technology aircrafts.
I guess they really need the new planes, and they couldn't wait til 2010 to get 787's.
Maybe they will be able to close a deal with Boeing to buy back the A330 and replace tem with 787 in 2010.

Or maybe the A33X is simply the best aircraft for El Al ...

In any case, if ever the deal is concluded, we will not have to wait for long before reading on A.Net : " El Al got Airbus because Airbus is praticaly giving away its A330 "  sarcastic .
 
ehho
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Sun Apr 16, 2006 7:30 pm

Wow, historic decision indeed, if it goes through. Hopefully not a one-time-never-again thing like AA. Airbus can use all the orders it can get now.
"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
 
RedChili
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Sun Apr 16, 2006 7:33 pm

"El Al and Airbus? No way!"
"I'll believe this when I see it signed."
" If ElAl orders from Airbus I'll run naked down the local high street!"
"El Al getting Airbus aircraft is as probable as Embraer producing widebodies."
"El-Al needs an offer from A to show it to the B-folks, only to get the price at B right."
"Airbus and LY, thanks for the laugh."
"They are doing this to negotiate with Boeing. It will never happen."

A few quotes from a previous thread about the same question.
Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
 
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shamrock350
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Sun Apr 16, 2006 7:36 pm

Nice to hear some good news for Airbus! I'm sure the A330 will serve LY well and look great. It proves the A330 is still selling well and not because it's cheap but because its a great aircraft.
 
ehho
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Sun Apr 16, 2006 7:43 pm

Quoting RedChili (Reply 4):
"El Al getting Airbus aircraft is as probable as Embraer producing widebodies."

2006: Original author of quote is a half-idiot.
2010: Original author of quote is a full idiot.
"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
 
imatams
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Sun Apr 16, 2006 7:48 pm

I think that, surprising as it is, it's a quite logical development. The main issue I think is that though LY has had the 767's for a long time now, they never really liked the aircraft.. In the last few years they actually increased their number, but even before that, long ago there was talk about getting rid of them. They obviously didn't do it then, presumably 'cause, being tied to Boeing at the time, there was no real alternative, but now LY is a private company, faced with the fact that they have a bunch of old, rather worn out 762's and don't have any chance of getting 787's as replacement until after 2010. So apart from new 767's the 332 (I would presume they will be 332's because with the 772 the 333 would be a strange choice) is the only aircraft available to them on short notice...
I do think this will kill the 787 for LY on the longer term, though with both the 772 and 332 in the fleet already it WILL make the 787/350 'battle' more two-sided...

Very interesting all, but first lets see if it will happen. Though in general I tend to like Boeing A/C better, I think is this case it's a good thing... LY needs to get rid of those poor worn out 767 with shabby interiors ASAP to keep their product competitive and consistent. Right now the difference between a 777/744 operated flight and one with the 762 is just WAY to big.

IM
 
amirs
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Sun Apr 16, 2006 7:50 pm

Quoting Amirs (Thread starter):
I guess they really need the new planes, and they couldn't wait til 2010 to get 787's.
Maybe they will be able to close a deal with Boeing to buy back the A330 and replace tem with 787 in 2010.

I hope no ones thinks i think A330 are bad a/c, I actaully love them BUT
It was an unofficial known fact that LY will order 787's to be delivered in 2009/2010 and I really wanted to see new modern 787's in LY fleet.
 
airxliban
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Sun Apr 16, 2006 8:22 pm

Is this a temporary measure or a long term decision? If it is the latter case then I don't think I am out of line by saying that I can't understand how El Al has the cheek to go to Airbus when you consider the US foreign aid going to Israel which has cost US taxpayers, well, $X million where X>>0.

I realise that El Al is a private company (or at least partially) but as I recall the government still has a 30% stake in the airline so I hope they've got special voting rights or that the 330s are a temporary measure because otherwise I question the logic when you consider the big picture.
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
Scorpio
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Sun Apr 16, 2006 8:54 pm

Even now, I'm still inclined to take this with a pinch of salt. With El Al, as long as the definitive contract isn't signed, it doesn't mean a thing. Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE for them to get the A330, but let's not forget they've been at this stage not once, but twice before: once with also the A330-200, and a few years before that with the A319. In those cases they went as far as signing MoUs (not 100% sure about an MoU for the A330s, though they did officially announce their intention to buy it, but sure about the A319s, MoU for five of which was signed) only to see the deals blocked for political reasons. Even with the new ownership, I still expect to see politics involved...
 
leelaw
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Sun Apr 16, 2006 9:37 pm

Eight A330s including spares for $500M ($62.5M per aircraft) is a very sweet deal indeed. IIRC, some folks in this forum were incredulous when NW allegedly got its A330s for $80M a copy? Perhaps LY has retained Mr. O'Leary of FR (the notorious OEM rapist) as its purchasing agent.  Smile
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
rjpieces
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Sun Apr 16, 2006 10:41 pm

I really can't see LY getting 330s except as a temporary measure. It simply doesn't make sense to buy a 330 when its competitor will be out in the near future and kill it in economics.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
karan69
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Sun Apr 16, 2006 10:56 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 11):
Eight A330s including spares for $500M ($62.5M per aircraft) is a very sweet deal indeed. IIRC, some folks in this forum were incredulous when NW allegedly got its A330s for $80M a copy

That is indeed a very sweet deal, i bet thats a major reason for LY to choose it.

Lets face it,

Its not the worst aircraft flying around

Its better than the 767

I dont think Boeing will give them 8 787s for that price for obvious reasons.

OT, how much would factory fresh 767-400/300 ERs from Boeing cost LY to buy at the moment???----what is their List Price
 
leelaw
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Sun Apr 16, 2006 11:03 pm

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 12):
I really can't see LY getting 330s except as a temporary measure. It simply doesn't make sense to buy a 330 when its competitor will be out in the near future and kill it in economics.

Still, at $62.5M a copy it's pretty hard to go wrong. Perhaps another A330 customer has decided to trim its unfilled order, explaining why Airbus may be willing to offer LY A330s at such reasonble prices?
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
leelaw
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Sun Apr 16, 2006 11:09 pm

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 13):
OT, how much would factory fresh 767-400/300 ERs from Boeing cost LY to buy at the moment???----what is their List Price

763ER: $128-141.5M
764ER: $139.5-153.5M

Whereas, IIRC, the list prices of A330s are in the mid-$130Ms range?

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/prices/

[Edited 2006-04-16 16:15:19]
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
karan69
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Sun Apr 16, 2006 11:10 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 14):
Perhaps another A330 customer has decided to trim its unfilled order, explaining why Airbus may be willing to offer LY A330s at such reasonble prices?

Good point that got me wondering,
could it be the EK 346 slots as they do share the same production lines with the 330, as deposits are paid and the the EK aircrafts were due for delivery somewhere this year so Airbus can provide LY with atleast 2 330s within a year

But whatever i am quite happy that the A330 has got another order. altough a cheap one [price wise]
 
avi
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:00 am

Airbus wants, desperately, to break into the Israeli market in general and El-Al in particular. This is why their offers are relative low (and why Boeing also had to give a relative low offers in the past).
Once this barrier removes, the future offers won't be that "cheap".

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 10):
...but let's not forget they've been at this stage not once, but twice before: once with also the A330-200, and a few years before that with the A319. In those cases they went as far as signing MoUs (...) only to see the deals blocked for political reasons.

When the Israeli government's Financial Minister signed the checks, this is how things worked. Today the government can't do much (and neither Washington).
On the other hand I do agree with you, it aint over till it over.
Long live the B747
 
gkirk
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:30 am

A big surprise, but if true, then well done to Airbus.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
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yowza
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:32 am

The 330 is a beautiful bird and looks good in almost any colours, I'm sure LY colours, bland though they are, will looks great on thes birds.

YOWza
 
HS748
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:43 am

Quoting RedChili (Reply 4):
"El Al and Airbus? No way!"
"I'll believe this when I see it signed."
" If ElAl orders from Airbus I'll run naked down the local high street!"
"El Al getting Airbus aircraft is as probable as Embraer producing widebodies."
"El-Al needs an offer from A to show it to the B-folks, only to get the price at B right."
"Airbus and LY, thanks for the laugh."
"They are doing this to negotiate with Boeing. It will never happen."

A few quotes from a previous thread about the same question.

Well I'm preparing to run naked down the local high street as we speak, though unlike you I'll wait until there actually is an order before doing so!
 
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zeke
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:28 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 15):
763ER: $128-141.5M
764ER: $139.5-153.5M

Whereas, IIRC, the list prices of A330s are in the mid-$130Ms range?

USA experience, cost of operating a 330 is much better than a 767

763 $4,901/hr, 1,568 Gal/hr, 216 seats source
333 $4,891/hr, 1,871 Gal/hr, 271 seats source

330 kills the 767
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
Tifoso
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:30 am

Quoting HS748 (Reply 20):
Well I'm preparing to run naked down the local high street as we speak, though unlike you I'll wait until there actually is an order before doing so!

You should try and raise some money for charity as well like the Irish reporter did when he ran naked around Silverstone  Wink

$500 million for 8 widebodies + spares seems like a fantastic deal to me!

Congrats to Airbus and El Al.
 
leelaw
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:32 am

Quoting Zeke (Reply 21):
USA experience, cost of operating a 330 is much better than a 767

763 $4,901/hr, 1,568 Gal/hr, 216 seats source
333 $4,891/hr, 1,871 Gal/hr, 271 seats source

330 kills the 767

Isn't the A332 a better benchmark for comparison?
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
CXA330300
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:33 am

Well good for LY. The 332 will help a good deal. We'll definitely see them to LHR and JNB.
AC/AA/UA/DL/B6/WN/US*/CO*/FI/BA/IB/AF/SK/LX/Sabena*/TK/LY/SA/MN/SW/AM/CE*/CX/CA/MU/JL/SQ/TG/MH/KA/5J
 
PlaneHunter
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:34 am

Quoting Amirs (Thread starter):
I guess they really need the new planes, and they couldn't wait til 2010 to get 787's.

True, EL AL's options with the B762s are quite limited - the A332 would offer more capacity, range and payload, simply more flexibility.

I'd agree it's a temporary measure - but:

Quoting Amirs (Thread starter):
Airbus committed to a three-year delivery schedule from the date the deal is signed.

That means deliveries won't be completed until 2009. A long time for an immediate B762 replacement order. Maybe Airbus has offered attractive A350 conditions as well?

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 1):
Proves the A-330 isn't dead yet (if it was outdated crap El Al would have waited for the 787) and chances are high they will have a TAP/Finnair like deal to roll over to A-350s a few years later.

The A330 is far from being dead, an EL AL deal would not be the ultimate proof for that.

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 14):
Perhaps another A330 customer has decided to trim its unfilled order, explaining why Airbus may be willing to offer LY A330s at such reasonble prices?

Another A330 customer? Which other one do you mean?


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
amirs
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:43 am

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 24):
We'll definitely see them to LHR and JNB.

You will see them everywhere the 767 usually fly today -

LHR, JNB, BOM, YYZ, LAX, BKK, CDG, ROM, MXP, AMS, MIA

Maybe even - HKG, ORD (nonstop)
Can the 332 do TLV - LAX nonstop on both directions?
It has the range.
 
airxliban
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:49 am

Quoting Amirs (Reply 26):
Can the 332 do TLV - LAX nonstop on both directions?
It has the range.

230 tonne version has a maximum range of 6400 nm. LAX-TLV is 6581nm according to the great circle mapper.
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
astuteman
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:55 am

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 2):
In any case, if ever the deal is concluded, we will not have to wait for long before reading on A.Net : " El Al got Airbus because Airbus is praticaly giving away its A330 " .

It would appear you didn't even need to wait for the deal to be concluded  Smile
 
ZRH
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:09 am

Why do everybody think it is a surprise? The A 332 is at moment the best long-haul aircraft in its size (the 777 is bigger and the 787 and 350 will only be available in few years).
 
leelaw
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:17 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 25):

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 14):
Perhaps another A330 customer has decided to trim its unfilled order, explaining why Airbus may be willing to offer LY A330s at such reasonble prices?

Another A330 customer? Which other one do you mean?

One which has at least 8 unfilled orders outstanding, merely a thought Udo. Then again, perhaps Airbus is anxious to sell a modest number of A330s at significantly less than 50% of list prices, hardly the heady days of a couple of years ago?
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
PlaneHunter
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:28 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 30):
Then again, perhaps Airbus is anxious to sell a modest number of A330s at significantly less than 50% of list prices, hardly the heady days of a couple of years ago?

Could also be an attempt to finally break into the Israeli market by any means, also hoping to be in a better position to place other types in the future as well.


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
CRGsFuture
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:38 am

Wow, the aviation world is being turned on its head. Wonderful news for Airbus, and while I am kind of upset at Boeing for not producing a fast enough deal, I wish Airbus well.


-JD

[Edited 2006-04-16 19:40:02]
Flying you to your destination; your girlfriend to her dreams.
 
dutchjet
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:45 am

Lets wait and see if EL AL does actually place an order with Airbus.

Its a hell of a good deal -almost as if Airbus is having a "Buy one, get one free deal" on widebodies, and the A330 is a very very good airplane, in my opinion, the best offering in the A330/340/340NG family, and the A330 would make a great 767 replacement and is a good aircraft to open new routes with (EL AL did state it wants to fly more nonstop routes to the US, avoiding routing everything via JFK or EWR)......but something is not sitting right with me. Is EL AL really willing to sit around for 3 years awaiting delivery of the A330 fleet? I am not convinced that this deal is happening.

In the coming weeks, EL AL will announce an order for 4 to 6 772ERs and a number of 787s for expansion and to replace its 767/757 fleet.....and early delivery positions will be available, one call from Condilezza will make sure of that.
 
leelaw
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:46 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 31):
Could also be an attempt to finally break into the Israeli market by any means, also hoping to be in a better position to place other types in the future as well.

If that's what Airbus has got to do to crack a 35-40 plane market, I guess that's what they got to do. IMO, the margins on any subsequent sales would have to be significantly better than average to make up for this loss-leader.

[Edited 2006-04-16 19:51:47]
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
ultrapig
Posts: 570
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:50 am

This is great news because it means that EAl beleives the demand for travel to Israel will continue to be strong. Tourists are great business-they come leave their troubles at home bring their money learn and go home.

Now what I'd like to see is the mid-east open up so one could do a grand tour of the mideast the way we did Europe as kids

Telaviv-Jerusalem-Petra (in Jordan)-Aman-to Jerach-then to Palmyra in Syria-then to Bagdad-and on to Isafan and Tehran then back home. For those with the time-start off in Cairo to Memphis to Luxor then to Tel Aviv.


I hope I can do this trip one day
 
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zeke
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:55 am

Quoting AirxLiban (Reply 27):
230 tonne version has a maximum range of 6400 nm. LAX-TLV is 6581nm according to the great circle mapper.

BEN GURION (LLBG) to LOS ANGELES INTL (KLAX) 6792 nm
LLBG->DCT->SOLIN-UW13-VELOX-UR18-ALSUS-UB15-VESAR-UB545-MUT-UL619-LENOV-UN133-LDZ-UN983-REDFI-UL621-ROE-UL996-ELVIX-UL621-MAXUM-UL996-SVD-UL621-VALDI-G3-KEF-5E72-YFB-N554C-YYQ-NCAE-YYN-J530-GTF-J7-FMG-J5-EHF->DCT->KLAX

LOS ANGELES INTL (KLAX) to BEN GURION (LLBG) 6822 nm
KLAX->DCT->DAG-J100-MISEN-J146-CLARR-J9-LAS-J100-NORRA-J107-BERYL-J9-FFU-J11-TCH-J9-GTF-J530-YYN-NCAE-YYQ-J530-YZS-J540-YFB-5E72-KEF-G3-VALDI-UL621-REDFI-UN983-LDZ-UN133-LENOV-UL619-KARIL-UN127-NEPOT-UL602-NERDI-UL867-SOMOV-UL606-ADORU-UG80-EKI-UL854-KULAR-UT39-TOMBI-UA16-MAROS-UG18-SOLIN-UH2-SIRON->DCT->LLBG

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 30):
Then again, perhaps Airbus is anxious to sell a modest number of A330s at significantly less than 50% of list prices, hardly the heady days of a couple of years ago?

What currancy is the article in ? Is that for a airframe and engines, or airframe only ? Is the 500m the capital injection required from LY in order for the lease comapnies to finance the deal ?

Does not seem any worse than what PK and CX were offered for 777s.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
slz396
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:05 am

It is not mentioned in the article, but I suppose LY intends to buy A330-200 only?

If confirmed by Airbus and LY, I think both sides will have made a good deal: LY will quickly get a fleet of brand new and still highly efficient medium capacity long haul planes for a very reasonable price and Airbus has won a new customer for a plane coming of a product line which is already fully amortized.

Anybody knows whether the estimated value of this deal ($500M) also includes the engines? Judging from the number of planes ordered, it looks like the newspaper is just focusing on the Airbus part of the deal.
Which engines would LY want for their A330?
 
PlaneHunter
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:06 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 34):
If that's what Airbus has got to do to crack a 35-40 plane market, I guess that's what they got to do. IMO, the margins on any subsequent sales would have significantly better than average to make up for this loss-leader.

Considering the current demand for the A330, chances are not bad other carriers would pay more per frame. But we still don't know whether the $500 million figure is valid or not.


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
4xRuv
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Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:10 am

Well, I just read LY's internal Magazine, which said that the EAD has just had a C3 technical checks, which also included a complete internal renovations (all the wall papers and carpets were replaced, all the C class seats were replaced and much more). I know that this could mean nothing, and that the replacement program with the 330s is allegedly planned for 3 years. But a machine that you plan to get rid of, you might not invest so much on renovating it.
I think these kind of reports are a part of LY pressure on Boeing, some kind of a spin. I still think that holding both A and B for such a small fleet isn't worthwhile for LY, and I'm pretty sure Boeing can also offer a very nice leasing agreement until they would deliver the 787s. I also think that if LY is serious about buying a new aircraft, they'd ask both A and B for an offer.
 
karan69
Posts: 2699
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:57 pm

Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:12 am

Quoting Zeke (Reply 36):
Does not seem any worse than what PK and CX were offered for 777s.

Just a bit curious how much were they offfered per piece on their 777s.


I remember reading on this forum only, that last year when LY purchased two additional 772ERs Boeing gave them a 45% off on list price for the whole package.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 33):
Is EL AL really willing to sit around for 3 years awaiting delivery of the A330 fleet? I am not convinced that this deal is happening.

8 aircrafts over 3 years almost 3 a year and i am sure for that price there is no problem in waiting
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:26 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 38):
Considering the current demand for the A330, chances are not bad other carriers would pay more per frame.



IMO, if the article is correct, and LY is purchasing the aircraft (including engines and spares) for $62.5M per unit, it'll be hard to convince any subsequent customers to pay more.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
khobar
Posts: 1336
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:12 am

Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:28 am

Quoting Zeke (Reply 21):
763 $4,901/hr, 1,568 Gal/hr, 216 seats source

I asked this before, but why do US 763's consume so much more fuel than the worldwide average (which would include US 763's)?

According to source US 763's burn 1,568 gal/hour. According to ICAO figures, the 763 average is only 1,297 gal/hour, a difference of 271 gal/hour.

Oddly enough the aviaglobal and ICAO figures for the A333 are identical @1,871 between US A333 fleets and worldwide A333 average.
 
PlaneHunter
Posts: 6512
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:17 am

Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:37 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 41):
IMO, if the article is correct, and LY is purchasing the aircraft (including engines and spares) for $62.5M per unit, it'll be hard to convince any subsequent customers to pay more.

The question is - if the price is correct - whether Airbus or another party would officially confirm it. There has been lots of talk about the easyJet deal as well, but has Airbus ever confirmed the price per frame?


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
slz396
Posts: 1883
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2001 7:01 am

Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:38 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 41):
if the article is correct, and LY is purchasing the aircraft (including engines and spares) for $62.5M per unit, it'll be hard to convince any subsequent customers to pay more.

Just wondering:
Where does it say in the article the price of $62.5M per unit ($500M divided by 8) INCLUDES the engines? Judging from the fact the article does not say so, and doesn't even mention which engine supplier LY is thinking of for their planes, I'd assume $500M is WITHOUT engines, which would make it a deal of around $90-100M per unit: competitive, but not exceptional by any standards for an A330-200.
 
airxliban
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 12:14 pm

Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:38 am

Quoting Ultrapig (Reply 35):
Telaviv-Jerusalem-Petra (in Jordan)-Aman-to Jerach-then to Palmyra in Syria-then to Bagdad-and on to Isafan and Tehran then back home. For those with the time-start off in Cairo to Memphis to Luxor then to Tel Aviv.

With the exception of Iraq being at war there is no reason why you can't do this now as long as you get your Israeli visa on a piece of paper or travel with two passports. Jordan and Israel have peace but you'd have to fly into AMM from TLV, don't think you can cross into Jordan by land (or perhaps you can but probably not adviseable and not easy).

By the way, no tour of the Middle East would be complete without going to the crown jewel of the region.

Quoting Khobar (Reply 42):
(which would include US 763's)?

I dunno what Zeke means when he said "USA" is that US carriers in general or US Airways? Probably not the latter because US Airways doesn't fly the 763, they only fly the 762. That could be the reason for the skewed statistic.
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
semsem
Posts: 1621
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:06 am

Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:49 am

This is a stupid decision. Apart from being an uncomfortable plane with narrow hard seats in economy, the US will rightly be irritated.
And if Europe threatens sanctions like they did about 5 years ago during the Jenin episode, we risk a boycott of spare parts like Iran is facing.
I stopped flying on Swiss because I don't like this plane. I will do the same with LY and switch to Israir.
 
M27
Posts: 409
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:25 am

Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:50 am

Quoting Amirs (Thread starter):
A series of meetings, held under a veil of secrecy, ended Tuesday night at the Ramat Hahayal offices of the Borovich-Mozes group,

Why the hush hush?
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:52 am

Quoting Semsem (Reply 46):
Apart from being an uncomfortable plane with narrow hard seats in economy, the US will rightly be irritated.

This is rather childish. The seat width and if it is hard or soft does not depend on the aircraft but only on the airline.
 
4xRuv
Posts: 379
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 10:05 pm

Its Almost Official - LY Getting Airbus 330's!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:58 am

Quoting AirxLiban (Reply 45):
don't think you can cross into Jordan by land (or perhaps you can but probably not adviseable and not easy).

It's actualy not as difficult as it sounds....