panam330
Posts: 1971
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:58 am

Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:15 am

Anybody have a compilation of routes that didn't work for LCCs? From the likes of WN, B6, FL, etc. It's (IMO) interesting to see what they just couldn't make work.
I'll start off with B6.

ATL-LGB
ATL-OAK
IAD-SMF
JFK-SDQ

EDIT: European airlines like FR, U2, etc. as well!

[Edited 2006-04-16 21:29:09]
 
jetblueatjfk
Posts: 1556
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:42 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:33 am

Insert all DH routes here:____


Anyway, I think FL dropped CUN-ATL, that could count as one. I don't know what happened to that.

B6jfk airplane 
 
JetBlueAUS
Posts: 852
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:15 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:34 am

WN:

HOU-SAN (N/S)

B6:

EWR-TPA
Not all of us can be heroes, some of us can only stand on the sidewalk and clap as they go by.
 
CMHSRQ
Posts: 822
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 1:49 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:36 am

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 1):
Anyway, I think FL dropped CUN-ATL, that could count as one. I don't know what happened to that.

Hurricane Wilma
The voice of moderation
 
717-200
Posts: 564
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2000 1:29 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:49 am

FL:

ATL-GSO
ATL-TLH
ATL-TOL
ATL-TYS
MLI-LAS
PIT-LGA
PIT-PHL
PIT-MDW
TLH-TPA
TPA-MIA
and probably a few others that escape my memory.
72S 733 734 735 73G 738 742 752 763 E190 M82 M83
 
flyboy7974
Posts: 1210
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2003 4:35 pm

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:00 am

SWA:

ISP-PVD
IND-LAX
BUR-RNO
BUR-MDW
SFO-SAN (really only due to ATC delays)
SFO -PHX (same)

some quick ones on the mind
 
hjulicher
Posts: 665
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:26 pm

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:05 am

Didn't spirit drop DTW-DEN? Is frontier in the same group of LCC's as SW and AirTran and Spirit. Their fares are equivolent to those by legacies on some routes.
LH 442
 
MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:15 am

Quoting Hjulicher (Reply 6):
Didn't spirit drop DTW-DEN?

Spirit dropped FLL-DEN. They used to run a daily M80 on the route. A former manager of mine used to be NK's manager in DEN and now he's in jail on some big time charges. And he seemed like such a nice guy!
 
User avatar
ERJ170
Posts: 5498
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:15 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:18 am

Midwest..

RDU-MKE
RDU-MCI

Southwest...

RDU-SAN
RDU-MCI

Airtran/ValuJet...

RDU-MCO
RDU-BWI
RDU-IAD
Aiming High and going far..
 
AirlineBrat
Posts: 487
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:40 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:25 am

It seems like the transcon routes have been the most troublesome for LCC's. B6 is making it work most of the time (JFK but not as much with IAD) but I have noticed many others giving up after a try. The first two airlines that come to mind are ATA and America West.
I'm leavin on a jet plane. Don't know when I'll be back again....
 
Mikey711MN
Posts: 1233
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:19 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:29 am

SY: MSP-DTW circa early-2000's IIRC.

(talk about wrath-of-God type retaliation from the red tail...)
I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
 
AirRyan
Posts: 2398
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:57 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:53 am

Quoting JetBlueAUS (Reply 2):
WN:

HOU-SAN (N/S)

When did they pull that one? I would have thought it would be okay since CO operates out of IAH and WN out of HOU but I guess not. I rode that route via a stop in ELP to MCRD back in '97 - oh the memories and my how time has flown by!
 
Trvlr
Posts: 4251
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2000 9:58 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:09 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 8):
RDU-SAN

Did WN ever operate RDU-SAN nonstop? I don't think this is the case--if anything, I remember it being a one-stop through AUS.

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 11):

It was a Saturday-only service maybe a year or two ago. If it's any consolation, while it didn't get picked up daily by WN, CO has expanded their SAN-IAH schedule significantly since then.

Aaron G.
 
Chiguire
Posts: 1848
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:11 pm

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:30 am

City Bird:

BRU-MIA
BRU-JFK
BRU-MCO
BRU-OAK
BRU-MEX
 
flybaby
Posts: 78
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 5:20 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:33 am

Quoting 717-200 (Reply 4):
and probably a few others that escape my memory.

Yes, I think there was ATL-VPS too at some point.
 
User avatar
ERJ170
Posts: 5498
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:15 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:49 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 8):
RDU-SAN

Uhmmm.. RDU-SAT?
Aiming High and going far..
 
stirling
Posts: 3897
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:00 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:57 am

Any route out of COS.

Any route out of FAT.

These must be the two largest cities in America without an LCC. Am I wrong? I'm just guessing.....
Delete this User
 
Cadet57
Posts: 7174
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:02 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:17 am

Quoting Flyboy7974 (Reply 5):
ISP-PVD

Good lord. why would you fly that. It takes longer to and from the airport the the dammed flight! lol
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18404
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:22 am

[quote=Stirling,reply=16]Any route out of FAT. [/quote

FAT - Allegiant, Frontier, America West/US Airways.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
stirling
Posts: 3897
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:00 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:31 am

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 17):
Good lord. why would you fly that. It takes longer to and from the airport the the dammed flight! lol


Not if you live way out on the island....all roads lead through the city.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 18):
FAT - Allegiant, Frontier, America West/US Airways.

I was expecting such a reply. Sure, the above mentioned airlines do fly into Fresno...they do on a very limited basis. (I'll admit I still forget about F9)

But a true, dyed in the wool LCC, with conveniently timed flights to the top destinations, is still sorely missing from Fresno.

For the most part Fresno is being treated as an after-thought by many airlines...but I have a feeling that is about to change.
Delete this User
 
HPRamper
Posts: 4633
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:32 am

HP to NGO....probably in the top 5 worst routes of all time  Smile
 
MaartenV
Posts: 261
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 6:16 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:33 am

Ryanair cancelled MST-STN pretty fast.
Its all about supply and demand...
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18404
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:48 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 19):
I was expecting such a reply.

Then why did you make the statement, which was:

Quoting Stirling (Reply 16):
Any route out of FAT.

Sorry I bothered to reply. But you did ask.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 16):
Am I wrong? I'm just guessing.....

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
SJCRRPAX
Posts: 961
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 2:29 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:14 am

Quoting Flyboy7974 (Reply 5):
SFO-SAN (really only due to ATC delays)

Are you sure ?? I thought WN left SFO because they didn't want to pay the airport fees. There are about 20 WN flights/day to SAN from OAK, SJC got 10 (plus about 15 more on AA and Alaska), and SAC's got 13. Would the ATC delays at SFO be bad enough to make that route not work??
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:23 am

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 1):
Anyway, I think FL dropped CUN-ATL, that could count as one. I don't know what happened to that.

They never even started the route. They still hold the traffic rights, it's just no start date has ever been established as a result of Wilma.

Quoting FlyBaby (Reply 14):

Yes, I think there was ATL-VPS too at some point.

They moved their flights to PNS because at the time, VPS was getting ready to undertake building a new terminal on the site of the terminal, and flights were to operate out of a temporary terminal that was nothing more than a tent.


FL: ATL-BDL. The loads were never that good on the route; what kept them on the route as long as they did was the mail revenue the route provided.
 
dsuairptman
Posts: 695
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 9:45 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:28 am

Quoting FlyBaby (Reply 14):
Yes, I think there was ATL-VPS too at some point.

Air Tran transfered the VPS service to PNS. They appear to be doing better there than at VPS.
GEAUX SAINTS!
 
atrude777
Posts: 4258
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:29 am

out of STL..

WN dropped STL-IND, STL-MSY.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
WN57787
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:47 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:35 am

Quoting Trvlr (Reply 12):
Did WN ever operate RDU-SAN nonstop?

yes about 2 1/2 yrs ago it was sat only service. never was full

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 26):
out of STL..

WN dropped STL-IND, STL-MSY.

STL-MSY was dropoed to to Hurrcain Katrina


another bad rout for WN is BDL-PHL both way's

hardly ever full
 
atrude777
Posts: 4258
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:42 am

Quoting WN57787 (Reply 27):

STL-MSY was dropoed to to Hurrcain Katrina

No it was not. it was dropped looooong time ago, before 1998.


STL-IND was dropped right after 9/11.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
WN57787
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:47 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:48 am

was just talking to a Girl that worked the MSY station for WN until Katrina. and she said that thay had STL n/s out of msy.. up until the Rebuilding. of MSY
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:52 am

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 1):
Insert all DH routes here:____

They were a low fare carrier, not a low cost carrier

Quoting Flyboy7974 (Reply 5):
SFO-SAN (really only due to ATC delays)
SFO -PHX (same)

Well, they dropped SFO completely.

Quoting WN57787 (Reply 29):
was just talking to a Girl that worked the MSY station for WN until Katrina. and she said that thay had STL n/s out of msy.. up until the Rebuilding. of MSY

MSY-STL and MSY-MCI were both strong routes up until Katrina hit. MSY-STL has 2 carriers again, with Trans States working both the Eagle and UAX systems on the route.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
nkops
Posts: 2161
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:09 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:52 am

NK.. a few off the top of my head

DEN-FLL
DEN-DTW
OAK-DTW
LGA-MLB
everything in ISP and EWR and PHL (years back)
BOS-ACY

probably a few others back a few years ago... but can't remember them too well

Happy Easter!!

Oh yeah... most recent MCO-MBJ... sorry!!

[Edited 2006-04-17 01:53:49]
:evil:
 
BigGSFO
Posts: 2219
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:27 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:58 am

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 23):
Are you sure ?? I thought WN left SFO because they didn't want to pay the airport fees.

It's my understanding that yes, WN did drop SFO due to the ATC delays. With their tight turnarounds, a delay in SFO would ripple thru the system quickly. So WN dropped SFO in favor of building up OAK and SJC. OAK only uses 1 runway for airliners, so the ATC slow down has little affect even though the airport is right across the bay.
 
WN57787
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:47 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:00 am

and WN starts service to PHL wht that ATC wow.. that is a mess for any Airline
 
atrude777
Posts: 4258
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:04 am

Quoting WN57787 (Reply 29):
was just talking to a Girl that worked the MSY station for WN until Katrina. and she said that thay had STL n/s out of msy.. up until the Rebuilding. of MSY



Quoting N1120A (Reply 30):
MSY-STL and MSY-MCI were both strong routes up until Katrina hit. MSY-STL has 2 carriers again, with Trans States working both the Eagle and UAX systems on the route.

I need to see proof of that, MSY was opened as a started route for STL when Southwest initiated STL service. MSY was soon shortly dropped, long before 1998, i dont ever recall seeing STL-MSY as a non stop. I even looked at my time tables of each year since 2001, and not one single STL-MSY was n/s.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
AlitaliaMD11
Posts: 3704
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:19 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:10 am

FL also dropped ATL-SWF a while ago.
No Vueling No Party
 
WN57787
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:47 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:10 am

She is telling me it is 3 NS a day. ill have to look it up in the Data Base.
 
amciver
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:40 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:11 am

EZ

LPL-LTN didn't last long.

Shame becase the West Coast UK Mainline train service between London and Liverpool was a joke at the time.
 
atrude777
Posts: 4258
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:12 am

Quoting WN57787 (Reply 36):
She is telling me it is 3 NS a day. ill have to look it up in the Data Base.

I would love to be proven wrong, but I just havent seen that anywhere. Or do you mean that right now?!

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
panam330
Posts: 1971
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:58 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:13 am

I'll add a bit more to the pool here.

WN IAH-anywhere. Dropped to focus on HOU as their solitary Houston station.

Didn't FL have BUF-MCO back in the day? I'm surprised they don't operate it now, but it's probably due to WN being on the route.

FL, back before they were 'reformed,' flew SYR-MCO, and maybe to ATL as well.

DFW-LAX on FL. I think they flew DFW-FLL at one point as well.

There is, of course, the obligatory addition of now-defunct carriers (and their route networks, obviously) such as PEOPLExpress, TMA, etc. etc.
 
WN57787
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:47 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:16 am

CURRENT SERVICE: 13 daily nonstop departures to five cities:
Dallas, Houston Hobby, Nashville, Orlando, and Tampa Bay.
Additional direct or connecting service to 28 cities.
(22% of pre-Katrina Service)
***Beginning March 17, Southwest will offer:
18 daily nonstop departures to five cities:
Dallas, Houston Hobby, Nashville, Orlando, and Tampa Bay.
Additional direct or connecting service to 28 cities.
(32% of Pre-Katrina Service)
***Prior to Hurricane Katrina, Southwest offered:
57 daily nonstop departures to 17 cities:
Baltimore/Washington, Birmingham, Dallas,
Ft. Lauderdale/Hollywood, Houston Hobby, Indianapolis,
Jacksonville, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Nashville, Oakland,
Orlando, Philadelphia, Phoenix, San Diego, St. Louis and Tampa Bay.
Additional direct or connecting service to 42 cities.
 
HPRamper
Posts: 4633
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:34 am

I'm surprised WN hasn't started up service back to PHX, since it's only a matter of time until US does.
 
WN57787
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:47 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:46 am

MSY - PHX starts Jun 10th
 
atrude777
Posts: 4258
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:04 am

Quoting WN57787 (Reply 40):

I can't read that format, so WN had STL-MSY because the months I looked up for 2004, and 2005 were April, May and June and July and none of them had STL-MSY.

It was never shown up in the timetables then.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
eastbay
Posts: 204
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 2:44 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:11 am

WN, TUS-OAK. Loved that one as a jumpseater, unfortunately didn't ever seem to quite fill up.

FL ran FLL-DFW a while back but it's gone now- not sure if it's been mentioned.

HP to NGO, yeah, that one was a disaster. Plus the short-lived, weekly SFO-BRU service on PeoplExpress, bizarre route.
 
panam330
Posts: 1971
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:58 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:38 pm

Quoting Eastbay (Reply 44):
FL ran FLL-DFW a while back but it's gone now- not sure if it's been mentioned.

I got it earlier; yes.

Quoting Eastbay (Reply 44):
Plus the short-lived, weekly SFO-BRU service on PeoplExpress

OAK-BRU, not SFO.
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 4446
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:08 pm

Quoting Stirling (Reply 16):
Any route out of FAT



Quoting Mariner (Reply 18):
FAT - Allegiant, Frontier, America West/US Airways

There was an interesting fare comparison today out of BFL as part of an article about fares at Bakersfield.
http://www.bakersfield.com/102/story/46410.html

It compared a few routes for May 2. For those not aware FAT and BFL are about 100 miles apart:
DEN to BFL: $278
DEN to FAT: $229
DEN to LAX: $214
DEN to BUR: $288

IAH to BFL: $344
IAH to FAT: $321
IAH to LAX: $261
IAH to BUR: $329

PHX to BFL: $247
PHX to FAT: $325
PHX to LAX: $123
PHX to BUR: $284

SFO to BFL: $157
SFO to FAT: $381

It looked like F9 has helped on FAT-DEN. But those Fresno fares to PHX and SFO, whoa.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:08 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 41):



I'm surprised WN hasn't started up service back to PHX, since it's only a matter of time until US does.

Keep getting mixed messages here from HP/US. Sometimes they say both LAS and PHX are coming soon, sometimes they say not for quite a while. WN is adding PHX back in June.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
aviationwiz
Posts: 882
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 7:20 pm

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:43 pm

Quoting Mikey711MN (Reply 10):
(talk about wrath-of-God type retaliation from the red tail...)

Which brings up the failed F9 service, MSP-LAX.
Proudly from the Home of the Red Tail.
 
HPRamper
Posts: 4633
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs

Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:06 pm

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 46):
It looked like F9 has helped on FAT-DEN. But those Fresno fares to PHX and SFO, whoa.

And those are one-way fares?

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos