AIR MALTA
Topic Author
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BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:28 pm

An interesting news was posted today on www.ameinfo.com.
Some kind of cooperation will be set up to let KSA BD passengers connct to BA's flights to the States.

Here is the complete article :
http://www.ameinfo.com/83212.html>ht...p://www.ameinfo.com/83212.html
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Vasu
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RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:39 pm

Will BA end up coming to bmi's rescue?
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:58 pm

Quoting Vasu (Reply 1):
Will BA end up coming to bmi's rescue?

I hope so  Wink I am one of the few who hope it will happen  Wink
Just imagine!
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carduelis
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RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:11 pm

Not sure what this is all about . . . your link takes you back to the airliners.net page . . .

Can you elucidate?
Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:19 pm

Sorry, here is the article :
http://www.ameinfo.com/83212.html
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HS748
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RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:21 pm

Quoting Vasu (Reply 1):
Will BA end up coming to bmi's rescue?

Definitely not. If BA acquired BD it would be forced to give up lots of LHR slots. Without those slots I can't see BD being of any interest to BA at all. If anything, it's in BA's interests to let BD fail (and given their current 'strategy' it can only be a matter of time).
 
mutu
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RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:04 pm

Quoting HS748 (Reply 5):
Quoting Vasu (Reply 1):
Will BA end up coming to bmi's rescue?

Definitely not. If BA acquired BD it would be forced to give up lots of LHR slots. Without those slots I can't see BD being of any interest to BA at all. If anything, it's in BA's interests to let BD fail (and given their current 'strategy' it can only be a matter of time).

Correct HS748. Of course if the price was low enough the slots could I suppose then be handed over to new entrants as part of securing open skies, leaving BA/AA at current scale but allowing new entrants to secure plentiful slots at LHR. There really would be no loss of competition on european routes ex LHR without BMI, particulrly with LCC growth at STN/LTN taking over the leisure short haul market....just a thought
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:18 pm

Quoting EE-Kay (Reply 6):
I see you're no longer in TUN. Have you move to MLA now?

Well I am based in Austria but have a long project here in MLA and I am enjoying it  Wink

Quoting HS748 (Reply 5):
Definitely not. If BA acquired BD it would be forced to give up lots of LHR slots. Without those slots I can't see BD being of any interest to BA at all. If anything, it's in BA's interests to let BD fail (and given their current 'strategy' it can only be a matter of time).

That's defenitely true but they will also get some slots out of the deal which could help them to start new routes (to the regions for example) and move some more routes from LGW to LHR.
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Humberside
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RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:47 pm

Im surprised at this. Cant BD use their partner UA for connecting flights to the US?
Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
 
HS748
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RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:01 pm

Quoting Mutu (Reply 6):
Of course if the price was low enough the slots could I suppose then be handed over to new entrants as part of securing open skies, leaving BA/AA at current scale but allowing new entrants to secure plentiful slots at LHR

Good point - bring on the demise of bmi!
 
boysteve
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RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:06 pm

Quoting Humberside (Reply 8):
Im surprised at this. Cant BD use their partner UA for connecting flights to the US?

Thats what I was thinking. Could this cause a problem within Star Alliance?
 
carduelis
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RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:19 pm

I really am unsure about this thread - maybe I'm missing something!

Just because BA and BD have 'made' an agreement to write the two sectors on the same (BA) ticket, everybody here feels that it brings about the demise of BD and their subsequent takeover by BA and all sorts of discussion on the old chestnut of LHR slots. . . what are you talking about?

When I was in BOAC Res I regularly hand wrote multi-sector tickets on BA stock covering several airlines including some very long 24 sector journeys with six 0164 tickets in conjunction. It is called Interline and there's nothing new to it - any IATA airline can do the same with any other member.

I want to share the topic, but perhaps somebody can clarify the 'importance' and topicality of the original article, and also what KSA stands for.

Cheers!
Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
 
boysteve
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RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:31 pm

Quoting Carduelis (Reply 11):
and also what KSA stands for

I presumed that it was Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
 
AIR MALTA
Topic Author
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RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:37 pm

Quoting Carduelis (Reply 11):
also what KSA stands for.

Yes, it is Kingdom of Saudi Arabia...

Actually, I wouldn't have expected BD to tie with BA, not on a route they took over from BA and which should be a cash cow...
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boysteve
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RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:43 pm

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 13):
Actually, I wouldn't have expected BD to tie with BA, not on a route they took over from BA and which should be a cash cow...

While I find the situation odd regarding BD's choice of bed-partner on this issue, maybe this is a way for BA to have a share of this cash cow that you talk about. Afterall BA dropped the route due to security, nothing else.
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:07 am

Quoting Boysteve (Reply 14):
While I find the situation odd regarding BD's choice of bed-partner on this issue, maybe this is a way for BA to have a share of this cash cow that you talk about. Afterall BA dropped the route due to security, nothing else.

Why should BD share the cash cow with BA? It has enough partners at LHR like UA and VS.
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boysteve
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RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:20 am

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 15):
Why should BD share the cash cow with BA? It has enough partners at LHR like UA and VS

Exactly, maybe I didn't explain myself properly. On this issue I think BD are a bit daft whilst BA will be laughing all the way to the bank, make that pension deficit.
 
HS748
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RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Tue Apr 18, 2006 2:17 am

Quoting Carduelis (Reply 11):
Just because BA and BD have 'made' an agreement to write the two sectors on the same (BA) ticket, everybody here feels that it brings about the demise of BD and their subsequent takeover by BA and all sorts of discussion on the old chestnut of LHR slots. . . what are you talking about?

Well perhaps you need to go back and read again, this time a bit more slowly paying a little more attention. Nobody has said that BA and BD co-operating means that BA will take over BD - you have wrongly drawn that conclusion because you haven't read the thread properly. Somebody asked in one of the replies whether BA will at some time in the future end up coming to BD's rescue - that is where the subsequent discussion came from.
 
ANother
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RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Tue Apr 18, 2006 2:27 am

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 15):
Why should BD share the cash cow with BA? It has enough partners at LHR like UA and VS.

I am sure that BD will do what they can to maximise their Star alliance partners, but if the customer wants a better connection to, say BA or AA, do you really think BD is going to say NO? SV will carry the pax to LHR just as well as BD and they have interline agreements with just about every other airline that flies there. There is something to say for the MIA (Multilateral Interline Agreement).
 
carduelis
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RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Tue Apr 18, 2006 2:28 am

Thanks, HS748

Quoting HS748 (Reply 17):
BA will at some time in the future end up coming to BD's rescue - that is where the subsequent discussion came from.

Yes, and then all the usual waffle on LHR slots.

Thread title is - BA and BD Team Up to KSA!
Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
 
StarGoldLHR
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RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:36 am

BA Are too scared to fly to Saudi, so instead they will pay BD.
So what ?

Given the choice of UA and BA/AA for connections to the US, a business man to/from saudi will choose BA where possible, and BD's service is pretty good anyhow.

VS is really a third world airline but with new planes.. in that it offer's no good connections, partners and only flies to it's few destinations once every n number of days (except NY).
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
jacobin777
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RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:36 am

Quoting HS748 (Reply 5):
. If anything, it's in BA's interests to let BD fail (and given their current 'strategy' it can only be a matter of time).

actually, if anything, it would be good for BA to have BD around as a "2nd-class" carrier...that way, they won't have more competitive entrants to LHR....the longer BD stick around, the better it is for BA
"Up the Irons!"
 
carduelis
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RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:53 am

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 20):
BA Are too scared to fly to Saudi

Take a look at the UK Government's Foreign and Commonwealth Office official advice . . .

http://www.fco.gov.uk/servlet/Front?...a=KCountryAdvice&aid=1013618387135
Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
 
Concorde001
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RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Tue Apr 18, 2006 4:26 am

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 20):
VS is really a third world airline but with new planes.. in that it offer's no good connections, partners and only flies to it's few destinations once every n number of days (except NY

Are you being serious?
VS does not "fly its few destinations once every number of days". Admittedly BA serves more US destinations, but a "third world airline"? What does that even mean? Some would say FR was a "third world airline".
As for flying "its few destinations once every number of days", you will see VS routes from LHR operate practically every day.
EWR - 3 daily
JFK - 3 daily
BOS - daily
LAX - 2 daily
MIA - daily
SFO - daily
IAD - daily
BOM - daily
DEL- daily
NRT - daily
DXB - going daily in July
HKG - daily (going double daily soon)
SYD- daily
JNB - daily
LOS - daily
PVG - daily

Quoting HS748 (Reply 5):
If BA acquired BD it would be forced to give up lots of LHR slots. Without those slots I can't see BD being of any interest to BA at all.

Correct. When rumours surfaced in 2003/2004 that VS/BD were about to merge, it was reported that BA were looking to make an offer for VS to de-rail a BD/VS merger. WHY? Because they knew if they decided to bid for BD they would face regulatory problems as their 12% share of LHR slots was significantly more than VS' 2%.
 
jacobin777
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RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:02 am

Quoting Concorde001 (Reply 23):
Because they knew if they decided to bid for BD they would face regulatory problems as their 12% share of LHR slots was significantly more than VS' 2%.

do you have a link for that data (regarding the control of BA/VS/BD slots at LHR)?
"Up the Irons!"
 
Concorde001
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RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:14 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 24):
do you have a link for that data (regarding the control of BA/VS/BD slots at LHR)?

As for BD's Slots stats:
http://www.flybmi.com/bmi/en-gb/aboutbmi/aboutbmi.aspx

As for BA/VS/BD mergers etc, have look at the archives for British newspapers and media outlets for 2003/2004. For example:
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/business.cfm?id=588992003
http://www.guardian.co.uk/airlines/story/0,1371,963472,00.html
 
boysteve
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RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:22 am

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 20):
VS is really a third world airline but with new planes.. in that it offer's no good connections, partners and only flies to it's few destinations once every n number of days (except NY).



Quoting Concorde001 (Reply 23):
Are you being serious?

Thankyou Concorde001. I was just about to comment on the pile of rubbish that StarGoldLHR had spouted but you beat me to it!
 
cainanuk
Posts: 456
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RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:29 am

Wow, less than an hour for HS748 to weigh in with his childish "demise of bmi" comments. You are getting to be far too predictable. Perhaps you didn't notice that BD is actually doing quite well. Sure pax numbers are down due to route restructuring but profits are undeniably up. Not only that, but with 12% of LHR slots, that is extremely valuable for the other Star Alliance partners. Things are actually quite healthy at BD.

Before you make such stupid comments, you should take into consideration the several thousand BD employees whose livelyhoods depend on the airline. I can assure you that THEY dont share your asinine sentiment.
Cainan Cornelius
 
BAxMAN
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RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:43 am

Look's to me like it's more of a BA initiated interline agreement. I'm sure BD will still have their own fares which interline with their own *Alliance partners but if BA are prepared to give BD a their fare share of the fare, they will happily interline with BA also.

BA and BD have a pretty much an identical arrangement for interlining out of BHD after BA also pulled out of that market. No codeshare or anything like that, but fully interlinable fares nonetheless.
I need to get laid
 
Concorde001
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RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:04 am

Quoting Cainanuk (Reply 27):
Cainanuk

With all due respect, things are not that "healthy" at bmi. It is reported that employee morale is down. Also with regards to profit, BD's operating profit was only £5.5m. The remaining £4.5m was earned from one off exceptional items. Also BD reported figures for the whole group - bmi regional and bmi baby. It is widely reported that the latter is most profitable part of BD - that could mean WW is keeping BD afloat. With regards to revenue, BD reported turnover of £869.0m. That gives BD an operating margin of 0.63% - that is not healthy, especially so considering LH/SK are absorbing most of BD's losses on unprofitable routes. If as expected EU-US Open Skies come in, where will BD find the cash to place orders for aircraft for US operations? They only have £143.4m in cash. And what will BD's figures be like when the LH/SK agreement expires?
I really do wish BD and its employees all the very best, but the airline has to do more to entrench its long term profitability.
 
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:32 am

Quoting Concorde001 (Reply 23):
Correct. When rumours surfaced in 2003/2004 that VS/BD were about to merge, it was reported that BA were looking to make an offer for VS to de-rail a BD/VS merger. WHY? Because they knew if they decided to bid for BD they would face regulatory problems as their 12% share of LHR slots was significantly more than VS' 2%.

How would BA have been able to bid for VS? Sir Richard Branson holds the controlling stake in VS, just as Sir Michael Bishop holds the controlling stake in BD. Even if BA could bid for VS, I think it would cause more uproar than a bid for BD because it would take away BA's UK based longhaul competition, whereas BD's void can be said to be much easily filled by LCCs and other European carriers.
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
carduelis
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RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:17 am

Quoting BAxMAN (Reply 28):
Look's to me like it's more of a BA initiated interline agreement. I'm sure BD will still have their own fares which interline with their own *Alliance partners but if BA are prepared to give BD a their fare share of the fare, they will happily interline with BA also.

My sentiments exactly - right from the start . . . !

Well done, BAxMAN!
Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
 
BAxMAN
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RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:26 am

Quoting Carduelis (Reply 31):
My sentiments exactly - right from the start . . . !

Woah...hold your horses!

Surely no A.net thread about BD can have such a simple explanation? Surely Nigel Turner must be held to account for something?

Give this thread a little more time, and I'm pretty certain that we'll have Mr Turner implicated in the crucifixion of Christ and/or causing the Mohammed cartoon crisis having re-printed the cariacatures in BD's inflight magazine on the inaugural RUH service.
I need to get laid
 
Concorde001
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RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:33 am

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 30):
How would BA have been able to bid for VS? Sir Richard Branson holds the controlling stake in VS, just as Sir Michael Bishop holds the controlling stake in BD. Even if BA could bid for VS, I think it would cause more uproar than a bid for BD because it would take away BA's UK based longhaul competition, whereas BD's void can be said to be much easily filled by LCCs and other European carriers.

BA could certainly make a bid for VS - there is nothing stopping them. Whether is it accepted or not is another matter, and is as you mentioned, wholly reliant upon SRB.
If VS was bought, it would give BD the green light to operate to the US from LHR, so VS' void could be filled. And with their extra slots BD could in theory mount a more serious threat. Though it would be hard for BD to make its brand well known in the US as Virgin has been able to do, especially so considering many don't have a clue about bmi in Britain!

[Edited 2006-04-18 00:35:06]
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:52 am

Quoting Concorde001 (Reply 25):
As for BD's Slots stats:
http://www.flybmi.com/bmi/en-gb/aboutbmi/aboutbmi.aspx

As for BA/VS/BD mergers etc, have look at the archives for British newspapers and media outlets for 2003/2004. For example:
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/business.cfm?id=588992003
http://www.guardian.co.uk/airlines/s....html

thanks for the links  Smile.....so BD has 12% of the slots...interesting...!

cheers..
"Up the Irons!"
 
AIR MALTA
Topic Author
Posts: 1744
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RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:44 am

You can earn BA miles on flights between KSA and the UK on BD flights. That's more interesting I think than an interline agreement...
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Shamrock_747
Posts: 1499
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 3:25 am

RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:42 am

BA still have a lot of loyal customers in Saudi Arabia. Some passengers are even travelling to London via BAH or AUH so they can continue to use British Airways.

If BA miles can be earned on the BD flights ex-RUH/JED then that's hopefully a step in the right direction to retain as many customers as possible. I don't think it signifies the start of any further co-operation between BA and BD though.
 
mutu
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:04 am

RE: BA And BD Team Up To KSA!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:31 am

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 30):
How would BA have been able to bid for VS? Sir Richard Branson holds the controlling stake in VS, just as Sir Michael Bishop holds the controlling stake in BD. Even if BA could bid for VS, I think it would cause more uproar than a bid for BD because it would take away BA's UK based longhaul competition, whereas BD's void can be said to be much easily filled by LCCs and other European carriers.

Technically the UK doesnt need a second mainline longhaul carrier, we are a small island. Af and LH arent required to have one. Just not an issue from a regulatory point of view, plenty of competition (theoretically more if VS or BD merged with BA then probably 2 new US carriers would be given LHR access)
But yes it is down the the Bearded one. Now knowing how he operates the airline has always been available for the right price it is just the world has changed so much in the last 10 years that no one has offered the price (Ok, SQ got 49% and paid a pretty full price). He is a billionaire becasue he knows when to get in and when to get out (and indeed when to get back in!!).

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