aaden
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Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:35 pm

why did AA abandon their denver hub? with their agressive tactics I would of thought that they would of stayed to fight it out with united.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:40 pm

AA had a hub in DEN???

I must have missed that part.

Sure you don't mean CO???
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USPIT10L
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:42 pm

Quoting AAden (Thread starter):
why did AA abandon their denver hub? with their agressive tactics I would of thought that they would of stayed to fight it out with united.

AA never had a DEN hub. It was proposed when DIA was first being planned, but that was when the original Frontier was going through financial problems and was in the process of being shopped around. AA had nearly made a codeshare/alliance deal with FL (the original code) but Frank Lorenzo stepped in and basically told AA "don't mess with my turf, I won't mess with yours." AA then abandoned the idea of partnering/acquiring FL.
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N1120A
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:48 pm

They probably abandoned it because they never had one. CO, FL (the old Frontier and UA all had significant operations at Stapleton. When the switch to DIA was made, CO decided that the cost structure wasn't going to work for them and they bailed. That is what left the vaccum that begat the founding of the current Frontier (F9), which had a lot of influence from the old one.
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NorthstarBoy
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Tue Apr 18, 2006 2:06 pm

AA never had a hub in Denver, Continental did, at least they did until 1995, when DIA opened, then continental, which had already beaten United to the punch by getting the leasing rights to the A concourse, basically pulled out of every market they served from denver except clevelend, houston and Newark. They had a pretty sizeable operation here, including express service, and took something like 1600 jobs with them when they left. From what i understand,they pretty well pulled out in disgust. I think continental's willingness to keep their hub in denver was partly contingent on their ability to keep their maintenance base at Stapleton open, from what i understand there was a lawsuit at some point in the past over aircraft noise affecting certain mostly low income neighborhoods near the airport, and the claimants agreed to settle on the condition that Stapleton be shut down when DIA opened. Continental approached the settlement class and asked for a waiver so they could fly like 12 flights a month into Stapleton for maintenance purposes, but two members of the class basically told continental to go pound sand, since the waiver had to be unanimous, and these two basically pig headed people refused to vote to waive, continental was out of luck and took it's hub and alot of jobs elsewhere.
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bobnwa
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Tue Apr 18, 2006 2:47 pm

I guess we can assume from the above answers, that AA never had a hub in Denver?
 
kkfla737
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:30 am

Are you thinking of TWA? they had a hub at Stapleton in the late 1970s and early 1980s. Braniff also built Denver up in the late 70s only to pull it back pretty quickly.

[Edited 2006-04-18 20:45:49]
 
LoneStarMike
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:44 am

Here's some more info on AA's -proposed- hub at DEN in the 1980's. It's mentioned in a page that deals with the last days of the original Frontier written by one of Frontier's pilots back in 1987 on the first anniversary of Frontier's cessation of operations.

While we felt our ESOP would be successful because O'Gorman had worked a deal with Bob Crandall and American Airlines through an alliance, we would need a buyer willing to out bid Lorenzo.

Crandall was interested. O'Gorman sent Vice-Chairman Doug Bader and myself to DFW for a 3 hour meeting with the Allied pilots. The purpose of this meeting was to see if the APA pilots would help bring a group of ALPA pilots on board with American. The meeting lasted nearly all night. It was a positive meeting. Hank Duffy, ALPA president, called from an IFALPA conference in Sweden saying he would roll out the red carpet if the Frontier pilots wanted to go with American.

The next day, a Saturday, Doug and I boarded an American 727 for Denver with good feelings about our meeting. We met Mr. and Mrs. Bob Crandall on board who were traveling to Denver for a retirement party for some American pilots. Crandall sitting next to us across the isle, leaned over and said: "you know we have to have this deal done by Tuesday don't you?" I replied:"Yes sir! We had a good meeting with your pilot leadership, and feel there will be no problem moving forward."

That was the last we heard from Crandall. On Sunday I called O'Gorman to report on the trip and my brief conversation with Crandall. Joe then asked me to meet him in his office Monday around noon.

Monday 8:00 AM O'Gorman called to ask me to restate that which I had reported to him the day before. I restated this and then asked what was up. O'Gorman said he had been unable to contact Crandall. He felt Crandall was refusing his calls and was not returning them either.

The American deal was dead. Fred Vogel, president of APA, later informed me of a meeting called by American upper management Sunday. He said the feelings were this would be the "announcement."

Nothing happened and the meeting broke up.

Speculation was that Lorenzo got to Crandall and reminded him of a few things. Things possibly like "I won't play in your back yard if you don't play in mine."

American had announced big plans in the Denver market. No such plans exist today. Continental, while expanding into many back yards hasn't done so in American's two new hub operations. If this speculation is true, you can bet it wasn't done on the telephone... (ref: the conversation between Crandall and Braniff's Lawerence that caused a major public uproar a few years prior).

The above website is heavily slanted toward's the writer's views (and he's quite passionate about them  Smile ) and I don't know how accurate his entire account is, but I thought it was still interesting and provides some background on what was going on at DEN back then.

LoneStarMike

 
N1120A
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:49 am

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 7):
(ref: the conversation between Crandall and Braniff's Lawerence that caused a major public uproar a few years prior).



Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 7):
The above website is heavily slanted toward's the writer's views

The above website also was inaccurate about certain things. The recorded phone conversation between Braniff and American was between Bob Crandall and Howard Putnam, not Harding Lawrence. AA was also convicted of an antitrust violation
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steeler83
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:58 am

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 4):
I think continental's willingness to keep their hub in denver was partly contingent on their ability to keep their maintenance base at Stapleton open, from what i understand there was a lawsuit at some point in the past over aircraft noise affecting certain mostly low income neighborhoods near the airport, and the claimants agreed to settle on the condition that Stapleton be shut down when DIA opened. Continental approached the settlement class and asked for a waiver so they could fly like 12 flights a month into Stapleton for maintenance purposes, but two members of the class basically told continental to go pound sand, since the waiver had to be unanimous, and these two basically pig headed people refused to vote to waive, continental was out of luck and took it's hub and alot of jobs elsewhere.

That was unfortunate for CO at DEN. It seems as though they had a healthy presence there and were very happy with their service. At least DEN has a sizeable UA hub and the home fortress of F9 though... How many flights do UA and F9 operate daily there? Sorry to get a little off subject here...
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ord
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:35 am

Quoting Kkfla737 (Reply 6):
Are you thinking of TWA? they had a hub at Stapleton in the late 1970s and early 1980s. Braniff also built Denver up in the late 70s only to pull it back pretty quickly.

TWA never had a hub in Denver in the 1970s/early 1980s. In fact, TWA had no hubs. That was their problem after deregulation started. They had sizeable operations at many cities (DEN included) but no hubs. When they realized they needed hubs they built up STL and JFK.

As for Braniff, they also never had a hub in DEN and never built up DEN either. Outside of DFW they only had a secondary hub in Kansas City, which at its peak only had about 50 flights. I'd need to look at my Braniff timetables, but I believe they only had about 15-20 DEN flights.
 
dolphinflyer
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:54 am

AA toyed with the idea of a DEN hub in the late-80s/early-90s, but it never materialized. Clearly the close geographic proximity of DFW and DEN played a key factor in killing the idea, as would be potential duplicative service via the ORD/DFW/DEN hubs on east/west routings.

Quoting AAden (Thread starter):
agressive tactics

This quote I've got to question. Of late, AA seems to be turning tail and running whenever the competition (esp. LCC) puts up a fight: BOS-SEA, BOS-SJC, JFK-SJC, etc. Need I go on?

It's sad to see AA increasingly putting all of their eggs in too few baskets. Their retrenchment to the core hubs (DFW/ORD/MIA) and downsizing of former focus cities (BOS/JFK/RDU/SJC) leaves them increasingly vulnerable. AS seems to have been able to figure out how to compete with WN on the West Coast. Why can't AA also figure out a way to compete against WN/B6, etc. in certain markets?
 
USPIT10L
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:58 am

Quoting Dolphinflyer (Reply 11):
It's sad to see AA increasingly putting all of their eggs in too few baskets. Their retrenchment to the core hubs (DFW/ORD/MIA) and downsizing of former focus cities (BOS/JFK/RDU/SJC) leaves them increasingly vulnerable. AS seems to have been able to figure out how to compete with WN on the West Coast. Why can't AA also figure out a way to compete against WN/B6, etc. in certain markets?

I don't view AA's retrenchment to its hubs as being "afraid" of competing with LCCs. They're just placing the planes where they think they can make more money. When AA pulled the plug on BNA and RDU, they retrenched to ORD, DFW, and built up MIA. It's a better use of resources than trying risky point-to-point service that doesn't necessarily have a chance of working out. I would consider LAX and NYC to be large stations for AA anyway, they have a huge FF base in New York and have a sizeable one in LA as well. They just choose to fly the most profitable service, instead of risky ventures.
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Brick
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:09 am

Quoting AAden (Thread starter):
why did AA abandon their denver hub? with their agressive tactics I would of thought that they would of stayed to fight it out with united.

Are you referring to American's "Strengthen the West" campaign back in 2000 or 2001? That's when they added DEN-SJC, DEN-SFO, and DEN-LAX flights. They may have even been a DEN-RNO flight in there as well. Only the DEN-LAX route survives to this day.
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AirEMS
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:10 am

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 4):
I think continental's willingness to keep their hub in Denver was partly contingent on their ability to keep their maintenance base at Stapleton open, from what i understand there was a lawsuit at some point in the past over aircraft noise affecting certain mostly low income neighborhoods near the airport, and the claimants agreed to settle on the condition that Stapleton be shut down when DIA opened. Continental approached the settlement class and asked for a waiver so they could fly like 12 flights a month into Stapleton for maintenance purposes, but two members of the class basically told continental to go pound sand, since the waiver had to be unanimous, and these two basically pig headed people refused to vote to waive, continental was out of luck and took it's hub and alot of jobs elsewhere.

There is also one fact I think I remember from this since my Father lost his job due to the pull out..... CO wanted to keep Stapleton open for Maintenance but they also said that they were only going to take off and land on the North South Runway (the number escapes me) that would send aircraft off the barren land of the Rocky Mtn. Arsenal also the aircraft Run-up's would also be done on the north end of the field.. but yet again some one forgot that in Denver if you are facing the Mtn's you are looking WEST and not north... But look at it now insted of a maintenance base with few flights and small work force they now have a huge shopping complex and houses on the way with all the increase in traffic and noise that comes with it.. now which one was worse?

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commavia
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:14 am

Quoting Brick (Reply 13):
That's when they added DEN-SJC, DEN-SFO, and DEN-LAX flights.

AA never flew DEN-SFO, and never flew DFW-RNO, even right after the Reno merger. AA did indeed fly DEN-SJC, but that was cut after 9/11.
 
TWAL1011
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:15 am

So how many flights a day did the AA hub have. What types of planes did they use. DC-10's 747's? How many cities. Did they fly to LHR from there? Were their flight attendants and pilots based there. It must have been great to see all the AA tails in Denever Stapleton.
 
commavia
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:18 am

Quoting TWAL1011 (Reply 16):
So how many flights a day did the AA hub have. What types of planes did they use. DC-10's 747's? How many cities. Did they fly to LHR from there? Were their flight attendants and pilots based there. It must have been great to see all the AA tails in Denever Stapleton.

AA never had a base in Denver -- Stapleton or International.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:23 am

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 2):
AA never had a DEN hub. It was proposed when DIA was first being planned, but that was when the original Frontier was going through financial problems and was in the process of being shopped around. AA had nearly made a codeshare/alliance deal with FL (the original code) but Frank Lorenzo stepped in and basically told AA "don't mess with my turf, I won't mess with yours." AA then abandoned the idea of partnering/acquiring FL.

When DIA was proposed and started being built in the late 1980's, not only did then Denver Mayor Federico Pena (later USDOT Sec under Clinton) want AA to start a hub there, but he also wanted DL to move their hub over from SLC. Pena wanted to justify the cost of such a large public works project by being the one and only large regional hub in the Mountain Time Zone.
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TWAL1011
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:23 am

So no base? Did that mean all the pilots and stewardesses had to keep flying in from the other hubs. They must have been pretty busy flying in and out because AA had a hub there. That doesn't sound right. They must have had a base because they would need so many pilots and stewardess esp because AA had lots of flights and I am sure they were international. Did they fly them nonstop to San Juan hub and Honolulu from there? Wow United hob is probably nothing in comparison to the good old days.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 17):
AA never had a base in Denver -- Stapleton or International.
 
CIDFlyer
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:11 am

Quoting TWAL1011 (Reply 19):
So no base? Did that mean all the pilots and stewardesses had to keep flying in from the other hubs. They must have been pretty busy flying in and out because AA had a hub there. That doesn't sound right.

AA has NEVER had a HUB at Denver, period. The only airlines to have a hub at Denver are United, Continental (until '95) and Frontier (current version and earlier version from the 80's). AA again, has never had a hub in Denver. The only hubs they have had are DFW, ORD, MIA, STL (after TWA buyout), and the defunct hubs of BNA, SJC and RDU.

[Edited 2006-04-19 02:13:12]
 
BNinMSY
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:27 am

AA has flown DFW RNO for years.... today they offer 3 nonstops a day from DFW.

"AA never flew DEN-SFO, and never flew DFW-RNO, even right after the Reno merger. AA did indeed fly DEN-SJC, but that was cut after 9/11."
 
commavia
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:40 am

Quoting BNinMSY (Reply 21):
"AA never flew DEN-SFO, and never flew DFW-RNO, even right after the Reno merger. AA did indeed fly DEN-SJC, but that was cut after 9/11."

I meant DEN-RNO, in response to the post in reply 13. It was a typo.
 
stirling
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:57 am

Quoting CIDflyer (Reply 20):
The only airlines to have a hub at Denver are United, Continental (until '95) and Frontier (current version and earlier version from the 80's).

And then there was Western.

While it was prior to hubs being in vogue, Western did have a goodsize operation at Denver-Stapleton.

Off the top of my head, there were nonstops to: SFO, LAX, MSP, RAP, PHX, SLC, YYC, BIL, FSD and SHR....it's been awhile so my recollection is a little rusty.

Not a hub, not a focus-city, but still, one of Western's more important markets of the day, before Berg focused 80% of the capacity around SLC.
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dia77
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:04 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 23):
Off the top of my head, there were nonstops to: SFO, LAX, MSP, RAP, PHX, SLC, YYC, BIL, FSD and SHR....it's been awhile so my recollection is a little rusty.

Western was also the first airline to fly DEN-LGW.

TWA also had hub level operations from Denver in 1981:
http://www.airchive.com/Timetables%2...aps/TWA%20Compressed/TWmap8110.jpg
 
citationjet
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:19 pm

Quoting AAden (Thread starter):
why did AA abandon their denver hub?

AAden, how did you pick your username?

Quoting TWAL1011 (Reply 16):
So how many flights a day did the AA hub have. What types of planes did they use. DC-10's 747's? How many cities. Did they fly to LHR from there? Were their flight attendants and pilots based there. It must have been great to see all the AA tails in Denever Stapleton.



Quoting TWAL1011 (Reply 19):
So no base? Did that mean all the pilots and stewardesses had to keep flying in from the other hubs. They must have been pretty busy flying in and out because AA had a hub there. That doesn't sound right. They must have had a base because they would need so many pilots and stewardess esp because AA had lots of flights and I am sure they were international. Did they fly them nonstop to San Juan hub and Honolulu from there? Wow United hob is probably nothing in comparison to the good old days.

Why is everyone convinced that AA had a hub in DEN?

AA didn't even fly to Denver until sometime after January 1981. Here is AA's January 31, 1981 timetable.


.
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
christao17
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:36 pm

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 25):
Why is everyone convinced that AA had a hub in DEN?

Don't think it is everyone. Just TWAL1011.
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citationjet
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:58 pm

Quoting TWAL1011 (Reply 16):
What types of planes did they use. DC-10's 747's?

A search of the A.net photo database shows no AA 767s, no AA 757s, no AA 747s, and one photo of an AA DC-10 (DEN-ORD) in Stapleton.
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
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American 767
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:41 pm

American flew mostly 727's to Stapleton, and maybe S80's and DC-10-10's from time to time. No I don't think American ever had a hub in Denver.

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TWAL1011
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:16 am

This must have been one of those hubs they shut down like Nashville and San Jose when they started Reno Air.
 
commavia
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:20 am

Quoting TWAL1011 (Reply 29):
This must have been one of those hubs they shut down like Nashville and San Jose when they started Reno Air.

First off, BNA had absolutely nothing to do with Reno Air. Nashville was shut down in 1995, followed by RDU in 1996, long before the Reno Air merger of 1999. SJC was closed as a hub around 1993-1994 for the first time, six years after the original AirCal purchase gave AA its first SJC hub. AA then closed the hub again around 2001-2002, after 9/11, and two years after the Reno merger. Again, AA never had a hub in DEN -- never, ever.

[Edited 2006-04-19 17:21:29]
 
TWAL1011
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:30 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 30):
First off, BNA had absolutely nothing to do with Reno Air. Nashville was shut down in 1995, followed by RDU in 1996, long before the Reno Air merger of 1999. SJC was closed as a hub around 1993-1994 for the first time, six years after the original AirCal purchase gave AA its first SJC hub. AA then closed the hub again around 2001-2002, after 9/11, and two years after the Reno merger.

Then it must have been part of the shut-down with the Raleigh/Durham hub when they started Midway Airlines. AA must have been strong in the west with the Denver Stapleton Hub. Did they have American Eagle service there too?
 
nosedive
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:32 am

Quoting TWAL1011 (Reply 16):
So how many flights a day did the AA hub have. What types of planes did they use. DC-10's 747's? How many cities. Did they fly to LHR from there? Were their flight attendants and pilots based there. It must have been great to see all the AA tails in Denever Stapleton.

Flights were between i^3 and pi^8. Back then, AA wanted all pax to know algebra. As for planes Boeing 2707s ONLY. 50 cities served on a tri-annual basis. As for LHR, only on fullmoons in October on days that started with the letter "G." That provision is one of the lesser known ones of the Bermuda 2. All pilots were based in the basement to DIA. Oh it was great to see that many 2707s tails in Denver....

Come on guys, he can't be serious  Wink
 
commavia
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:34 am

Quoting TWAL1011 (Reply 31):
Then it must have been part of the shut-down with the Raleigh/Durham hub when they started Midway Airlines. AA must have been strong in the west with the Denver Stapleton Hub. Did they have American Eagle service there too?

Is this a joke?
 
nosedive
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:40 am

Quoting TWAL1011 (Reply 31):
Did they have American Eagle service there too?

Did they have American Eagle he asks... DUDE YOU COULD FLY ON A REAL EAGLE FROM DENVER!

Quoting Commavia (Reply 33):
Is this a joke?

Um, duh?
 
TWAL1011
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:42 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 33):
Is this a joke?

No it's not a joke. Maybe you don't remember why American Airlines changed its corporate name to AMR because it owned American, Midway and Reno.

I think Reno started when they moved the Denver Stapeltion hub to Reno because they didn't want the higher costs at DIA.
 
USPIT10L
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:43 am

Quoting TWAL1011 (Reply 31):
Then it must have been part of the shut-down with the Raleigh/Durham hub when they started Midway Airlines. AA must have been strong in the west with the Denver Stapleton Hub. Did they have American Eagle service there too?

Methinks we have another MalpensaSFO/Kahala747/lhr001 on our hands, brothers. Check out his profile. I'm recommending deletion.
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flflyguy
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:56 am

TWAL1011 doesn't listen very well, does he?
The views expressed are my own, and not necessarily those of my employer.
 
stirling
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:59 am

Quoting TWAL1011 (Reply 35):
Maybe you don't remember why American Airlines changed its corporate name to AMR because it owned American, Midway and Reno.

AMR came about in 1982....long before Midway or Reno.

Quoting TWAL1011 (Reply 35):
I think Reno started when they moved the Denver Stapeltion hub to Reno because they didn't want the higher costs at DIA.

Hey let's start an airline in Denver, and call it RenoAir!

Yeah.

Idiot.
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FoxBravo
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Thu Apr 20, 2006 2:06 am

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 36):
Methinks we have another MalpensaSFO/Kahala747/lhr001 on our hands, brothers. Check out his profile. I'm recommending deletion.

Indeed. Just ignore the troll and it will go away.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
TWAL1011
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Thu Apr 20, 2006 2:33 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 38):
Hey let's start an airline in Denver, and call it RenoAir!

No they started the airline in Reno. I think it was when the shut down their Denver hub. They still wanted the traffic in the west. So they opened an airline in Reno and called it Reno Air. Reno Air is a perfect name for an airline in Reno and hence the R in AMR
 
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Thu Apr 20, 2006 2:45 am

Quoting TWAL1011 (Reply 40):
No they started the airline in Reno. I think it was when the shut down their Denver hub. They still wanted the traffic in the west. So they opened an airline in Reno and called it Reno Air. Reno Air is a perfect name for an airline in Reno and hence the R in AMR

This has to be a joke.
AA never hubbed in Denver. NEVER.
Denver is/and was- United, Frontier (former/ current), and Continental country.

Why must you keep on about this. And if you think AA hub at DEN, then show some proof.

This is a silly post. Where is the orgnial poster at anyways, it a kid, and did you see the profile?!?
AAden. pfft.

[Edited 2006-04-19 19:53:32]
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USPIT10L
Posts: 1870
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:24 am

RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:02 am

Quoting TWAL1011 (Reply 40):
No they started the airline in Reno. I think it was when the shut down their Denver hub. They still wanted the traffic in the west. So they opened an airline in Reno and called it Reno Air. Reno Air is a perfect name for an airline in Reno and hence the R in AMR

From an AA fact sheet/history dated 1994
1982:
On May 19, stockholders voted to approve a plan of reorganization, under which a new holding company, AMR Corporation, was formed and became the parent company to American Airlines, Inc. It was established for increased flexibility for financing and investment.

AA NEVER owned either version of Midway Airlines and did not acquire RenoAir until 1999. Get your facts straight and don't post if they aren't accurate!
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gr8slvrflt
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:15 am

Western had a fairly sizeable Denver operation as well. It was Western that flew the Denver to London route.

http://www.airchive.com/Timetables%2...Western%20Compressed/WAmap8104.jpg
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
gman3
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:18 am

Why and when did United close down their hub at DFW?? With the sizeable growth it had, I am surprised we retreated from there.
 
USPIT10L
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:21 am

Quoting Gman3 (Reply 44):
Why and when did United close down their hub at DFW?? With the sizeable growth it had, I am surprised we retreated from there.

Ha. Ha. very funny.  Wink
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boeingfanyyz
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:25 am

AA has never really enriched themselves in the DEN market. If AA would do a LAX/JFK-DEN and then continue on to Aspen or Vail, they could potentialy have some room for profit.

Until DEN decides to have better facilities than a tent over the terminal area, I dont think many airlines are interested!

Just my $0.02 (CDN)

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texan
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:33 am

Quoting TWAL1011 (Reply 40):
No they started the airline in Reno. I think it was when the shut down their Denver hub. They still wanted the traffic in the west. So they opened an airline in Reno and called it Reno Air. Reno Air is a perfect name for an airline in Reno and hence the R in AMR

Are you suggesting that Reno Air was a subsidiary of AA from the start? The idea of an airline within an airline has been floated around inside of AA for a long time, but it will be a cold day in hell before the employees allow that to happen. It is true that AA did purchase Reno Air and it's assets, but it has nothing to do with the R in AMR nor a supposed DEN hub. AA has always had a mediocre presence at best at DEN, be it Stapleton or the current DEN.

AAnyway, AA has operated various types of airplanes into DEN through the years (72S, 738, MD80, 757, DC10 I remember operating there one winter season). They have never operated a hub there nor have they ever operated scheduled flights to non-hub or non-focus city airports from DEN.

As for AMR, it is merely the name of the holding company and has been in use since 1982. Same as whatever Dick Ferris decided to name the holding company for United, Hertz, et al in the mid 1980s, same as Premeira Funds is the holding company for my current employer. A holding company is a safer way to distribute assets without having your main business unit, in this case AA, be subject to the fluctuations in business of the other units and vice versa, as they are all operated as independent business units. If AMR had held part or a majority of Midway or Reno Air, they would have been required to disclose this information in filings.

Hope that helps clear up a few things.

Texan
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jmy007
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:35 am

Quoting Boeingfanyyz (Reply 46):
Until DEN decides to have better facilities than a tent over the terminal area, I dont think many airlines are interested!

 Confused !?!?!?!?!??  Confused
I understand that this is your opinion. How often do you travel through DEN or use the main terminal. Please elaborate....

DIA's Jeppsen Terminal is one of the nicest terminals in North America, if not the world!
As my current "home" airport, I am there traveling at least once a month, and still marvel at the design main terminal.
I don't think the roof has any bearing on what airlines come in at all. In fact the ticketing area is not even under the "tent".

[Edited 2006-04-19 20:36:29]
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steeler83
Posts: 7391
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RE: Why Did AA Abandon The Denver Hub

Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:41 am

Man, after so many of yins guys insisted that DEN did not have an AA hub there, ever, and provided substantial proof that it did not, why did he keep arguing and insisting that it did despite the obvious conclusion that AA did not operate a hub there??? Which reminds me, when did CO shut down their PIT hub and move out?

Sorry, couldn't resist, and no offense TWAL1011, but when someone says that you're wrong with valid proof, there's no sense in continuing the argument. Just concede, retain your dignity and move on. Just some friendly advice from someone else who has made several incorrect judgements  Wink
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