vulindlela744
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Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Tue Apr 18, 2006 2:17 pm

Have heard from a very reliable source that FL is actually looking to add the 787 in their fleet within the few years for service to London. This info comes from someone inside the company. It would be really cool to see a 787 in FL livery! Hope it happens.
 
rumorboy
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:48 pm

Actually its not the 787 but 737RS. They have been in talks with Boeing as well as other companies about the airplane. Supposedly the 737RS will have the same technology as the 787. Joe would like to replace the whole fleet with 737RS IF its meets what ever Boeing is advertising. This is a long way off so I wouldn't read into to much.
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:33 pm

The 787 option makes the most sense to me if they plan on crossing the pond.
One Nation Under God
 
travatl
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:43 pm

*cough* nevergonnahappen *cough*.....

- Travis
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:55 pm

Given that FL has recently been pretty conservative about growing, and that they don't even change 73G orders to 738s or 739s to get additional capacity, I'd guess introducing a new fleet type and starting longhaul flights is not something that FL is actively pursuing  Wink .
 
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flying_727
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:40 am

I don't see this happening either. Air Tran knows that their current business model is a winner, and it would be a mistake to change it that drastically.

flying_727
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TK787
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:53 am

Quoting Rumorboy (Reply 1):
Actually its not the 787 but 737RS

What is the RS stand for? What are some of the other differences of this version compared to the 737NG?
Thanks
 
columba
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:57 am

Quoting TK787 (Reply 6):
What is the RS stand for? What are some of the other differences of this version compared to the 737NG?
Thanks

Replacement Study - it is a totally new aircraft and supposedly a shrunken 787
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
quickmover
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:04 am

That jet is probably 8-10 years away from actual delivery. I hope they have plans to expand more with something else in the mean time. The 737 order that is being delivered right now, probably won't be enough to bridge the gap until that jet is ready. Any thoughts about what they will do in the interim?
 
dalb777
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:37 am

Is the 737RS going to be Y1, or is the Y1 going probably going to be a whole brand new airplane, not a modified 737?
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N328KF
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:41 am

Quoting Dalb777 (Reply 9):
Is the 737RS going to be Y1, or is the Y1 going probably going to be a whole brand new airplane, not a modified 737?

Y1 and 737RS are one and the same. As far as we know, it will not share anything with the existing 737 family other than the market space.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
dalb777
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:45 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 10):
Y1 and 737RS are one and the same. As far as we know, it will not share anything with the existing 737 family other than the market space

Thanks, so the 737RS is just a temporary name? Eventually, it will have a new name, like 797? I guess we won't know anything official until Boeing makes it public.
Geaux Tigers! Geaux Hornets! Geaux Saints! WHO DAT!!!
 
steeler83
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:48 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 10):
Y1 and 737RS are one and the same. As far as we know, it will not share anything with the existing 737 family other than the market space.

So it will be like the 6 million dollar man...
or in this case, the "6 billion dollar plane..."

"Gentlemen, the 737 has been a very successful airliner, but it has been rendered obsolete... We now have the technology to make it fly further, and make it better, more advanced than any 737 before"

*6 Million Dollar Man theme plays*

 Wink
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
congaboy
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:59 am

I'm sure AirTran is looking at many different options in the course of due dilligence regarding future strategy....it would make sense to consider something like this. But, I would think the risk is too great when you see that
AirTran is doing well as it is; controlled growth, only two aircraft types, selective about which markets it serves.

The 787 to London would only introduce more cost because you have a higher paid crew, another type, much higher station costs, market saturation, and a product that from the ground up was designed for the N.A. market.

But ya never know....like many carriers before them, they could be taking "stupid" pills.
"Joey, you like movies about gladiators?"
 
steeler83
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:05 am

Quoting Congaboy (Reply 13):
The 787 to London would only introduce more cost because you have a higher paid crew, another type, much higher station costs, market saturation, and a product that from the ground up was designed for the N.A. market.

Airtran is actually considering that kind of international expansion? Isn't that a little drastic, as I believe someone else on this thread has asked? Why not use them for Caribbean or Latin American expansion, or even expand to Canada. Yet, I think I suggested that on another thread and someone came back and said that this was unfeasible and/or not part of FL's business plan. Or was that WN... I dunno... Too many LCCs to keep track of  confused 
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Btriple7
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:15 am

Quoting Vulindlela744 (Thread starter):
Have heard from a very reliable source

I think we're going to need a bit more than that for your statement to prove valid.

This world is filled with speculations. Please give us some more information.

Who? exactly told you this?
What? model would AirTran order?
Where? will AirTran fly to with such a big plane?
When? will AirTran be buying the 787?
Why? does AirTran need such a large plane?
How? will AirTran justify the cost of operating the 787 with their LCC structure?

Regards,
Btriple7

[Edited 2006-04-18 22:21:06]
Just...fly.
 
congaboy
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:19 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 14):
Airtran is actually considering that kind of international expansion?

Yea, I just fed off of the info the thread-starter presented:

Quoting Vulindlela744 (Thread starter):
FL is actually looking to add the 787 in their fleet within the few years for service to London.

Somewhat knowing AirTran, this seems like an idea that was discussed, but quickly countered with arguements about the amount of risk, so it doesn't sound feasible to me.
"Joey, you like movies about gladiators?"
 
MKEdude
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:14 am

Quoting Flying_727 (Reply 5):
I don't see this happening either. Air Tran knows that their current business model is a winner, and it would be a mistake to change it that drastically.

Who knows what may happen 5-10 years down the line. Due to consolidations or bankruptcies several airlines may disappear. The North Atlantic market could be ripe for someone like Air Tran to enter into it. It would be folly of Air Tran to focus myopically on staying exactly where they are. That will guarntee trouble down the road.
"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
 
COA735
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:47 am

Quoting Dalb777 (Reply 11):
Thanks, so the 737RS is just a temporary name? Eventually, it will have a new name, like 797?

off the topic i little, but whats after the B797? A 807??  scratchchin 
 
srbmod
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:55 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 14):

Airtran is actually considering that kind of international expansion?

Some airline industry analysts have actually predicted AirTran starting US-Europe flights by 2010.

AirTran will expand internationally, but I would put anywhere outside of North America, Central America, and the Caribbean as slim to none for at least a decade. Now if one of the big players goes under in the next few years, who knows what they might do. I see AirTran entering the Mexican market hot and heavy within the next 2-3 years (CUN is a start, that is if they ever announce the new start date for the service), and the start of Canadian service within the next 12-18 months. You look at the ATL-Canada market, and a route like ATL-YYZ is crying out for LCC service. With AC flying the E-Jets on the route, they've really upped the ante against DL. The two DL mainline flights are using the 732, and the 4 DL Connection flights are CRJ-100s (OH) and CRJ-200s (EV).
 
steeler83
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:55 am

Quoting Congaboy (Reply 16):
Somewhat knowing AirTran, this seems like an idea that was discussed, but quickly countered with arguements about the amount of risk, so it doesn't sound feasible to me.

That is my thought as well regarding FL's international expansion... Words of the wise: take it slow...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
airfrnt
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:24 am

In my opinion this is no where near as far fetched as everyone assumes. F9 already is trailblazing with their Mexican and Canadian routes. FL has a advantage in that they are significantly closer to London then F9 is in Den. Likewise I think B6 may find a way to run london routes.

As for the 787 in particular, when the plane was first introduced many pointed out that this plane would be perfect for a internaional low cost carrier. It's unexpectidly large success around legacy carriers has blnted that somewhat, but it is still a factor.
 
steeler83
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:49 am

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 21):
In my opinion this is no where near as far fetched as everyone assumes. F9 already is trailblazing with their Mexican and Canadian routes. FL has a advantage in that they are significantly closer to London then F9 is in Den.

I thought that F9 is taking a slow approach to expansion. I have made statements about them opening up a hub on the east coast and people have told me otherwise that F9 really doesn't want to rapidly expand...

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 21):
Likewise I think B6 may find a way to run london routes.

What makes you sure of this? I am just curious...

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 21):
As for the 787 in particular, when the plane was first introduced many pointed out that this plane would be perfect for a internaional low cost carrier. It's unexpectidly large success around legacy carriers has blnted that somewhat, but it is still a factor.

I agree with this bit here. It seems like a perfect fit for transatlantic service. Given the high fuel costs and operating costs in general, and given current state of the airline industry as a whole, I am not sure of any major international expansion of domestic LCCs. I know that FL, F9, and B6 are really not considered domestic, considering that they have Caribbean, Mexican and Canadian service. A transatlantic expansion, to me, would be a considerable expansion and I am just unsure if such an expansion would be economically feasible at this point...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
flydreamliner
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:05 am

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 2):
The 787 option makes the most sense to me if they plan on crossing the pond.

IF they decide to start doing transatlantic flights, the 787 is the obvious choice. Honestly, I see them expanding more into the west coast, the carribbean, and canada first. They are conservative. Also, their biggest limitation is getting aircraft to fill their capacity, as they grow into their current routes, they'll start expanding out. maybe in 5 to 10 years, they'll look at london, paris, etc, i think an LCC flying transatlantic has some potential.

Quoting Flying_727 (Reply 5):
I don't see this happening either. Air Tran knows that their current business model is a winner, and it would be a mistake to change it that drastically.

No, but I think eventually they'll evolve, and end up covering a wider range of routes. Right now, increasing capacity is the issue. I think a west coast hub may also be in their future.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
NWADC9
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:11 am

Quoting TK787 (Reply 6):
What is the RS stand for?

Rediculously stupid  duck 
Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
 
steeler83
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:17 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 23):
IF they decide to start doing transatlantic flights, the 787 is the obvious choice. Honestly, I see them expanding more into the west coast, the carribbean, and canada first.

That is my sentiment exactly regarding FL's expansion

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 23):
maybe in 5 to 10 years, they'll look at london, paris, etc, i think an LCC flying transatlantic has some potential.

Yeah, in 5 or 10 years or so, but not now... Other bigger fish to fry right now...

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 23):
No, but I think eventually they'll evolve, and end up covering a wider range of routes. Right now, increasing capacity is the issue. I think a west coast hub may also be in their future.

Bingo, and I can see a western hub as well. I am not sure of where as of yet. Maybe they'll add more western destinations first before considering a hub there. There are only 5 cities served by FL out west (DEN, SFO, LAX, LAS, and SEA)
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:21 am

I do agree that AirTran ordering the 787 would be extraordinary, but we must consider the following:

1. The future of Delta Airlines is still very very unclear; even the pilot issue is not yet fully resolved, the pilots still must vote, but even assuming that DL can move beyond their labor problems, DL has a long long way to go until it flies out of bankruptcy court. Its sad to say, but there is still a chance that DL could go out of business.

2. That there is even a chance that DL will shut down is something that the men and women at AirTran must be looking at and considering. AirTran, the only other US carrier with a large ATL operation, would be the prime beneficiary of a DL closing down (just like DL and AA benefited from EA closing down)......no US carrier other than DL offers international service out of ATL, and AirTran may just be studying handful of international routes out of ATL that could be flown if DL shuts down......ATL-London and ATL-Frankfurt could probably work on O&D alone, plus AirTran has a large hub at ATL that could support more destinations in this case. The 787 would be the ideal aircraft for this very speculative ATL-Europe service.

3. Maybe AirTran is thinking outside of the box and looking at other longhaul routes.......AirTran has large operations at BWI, PIT, MCO and FLL - none of those cities have trans-atlantic flights operated by American carriers.

Do I think that we will see AirTran 787 flights crossing the Atlantic in the near-term future.......not really, but so much depends on what happens with that other airline based in Atlanta.
 
steeler83
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:29 am

Dutchjet, you brought up some really good points and why FL would consider transatlantic service... Of course!! If DL goes belly up, who fills in the gaps at DL, who else but Airtran?!!! duh...

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 26):
3. Maybe AirTran is thinking outside of the box and looking at other longhaul routes.......AirTran has large operations at BWI, PIT, MCO and FLL - none of those cities have trans-atlantic flights operated by American carriers.

PIT doesn't have transatlantic service period. Although I am sure that there would be a number of naysayers on here who will say that such service from PIT is unfeasible, and they have valid points as to why not unfortunately...

There is some demand for overseas travel at PIT but not enough to warant non stop service. I am sure if FL said they were to open up a PIT-LGW at a relatively low start-up fare, that would really drive up demand and just "Maybe" that would get transatlantic service brought back to PIT. Again, I emphasize "MAYBE..."
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
MarkATL
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:44 am

I also heard from a very reliable source at LH, that they are about to sign a deal for 25 (plus 25 options) new 767-230s. They won't be ERs because they plan to use them for a new low cost operation. They plan to offer hourly service from Bremen to Hanover, Leipzig, Stuttgart, Nurnberg and Dusseldorf. It's still undeceided but they are also looking at every thirty minute service from Hahn to München and Berlin (SXF). The current proposal would be for a fleet of 20 747-830SRs. Latter on they might extend this service to the new low cost "Super Hub" at Bremen. It's all very hush hush, I really can't go into any more detail.....yet.

Really it's true, I heard it from an insider at LH.

I've got another friend who is in a position at Southwest that I can't mention. Shetold me about a pending A380 order. I'll discuss that later.
"...left my home in Georgia, 'n headed for the "Frisco" Bay...
 
steeler83
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:36 am

Quoting MarkATL (Reply 28):
Really it's true, I heard it from an insider at LH.

I've got another friend who is in a position at Southwest that I can't mention. Shetold me about a pending A380 order. I'll discuss that later.

That LH bit sounds really interesting. I look forward to hearing about that deal with Southwest; that should be really interesting  Smile
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
N723GW
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:30 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 7):
Columba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 992 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted Tue Apr 18 2006 18:57:45 UTC+2 and read 4243 times:


Quoting TK787 (Reply 6):
What is the RS stand for? What are some of the other differences of this version compared to the 737NG?
Thanks

Replacement Study - it is a totally new aircraft and supposedly a shrunken 787

Dang, I thaught it ment "Really Super" Man, was I off
The dude abides
 
SAIL52115
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:32 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 12):
So it will be like the 6 million dollar man...
or in this case, the "6 billion dollar plane..."

"Gentlemen, the 737 has been a very successful airliner, but it has been rendered obsolete... We now have the technology to make it fly further, and make it better, more advanced than any 737 before"

*6 Million Dollar Man theme plays*

LMAO

Just brilliant!
 
sparkingwave
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:29 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 12):
"Gentlemen, the 737 has been a very successful airliner, but it has been rendered obsolete... We now have the technology to make it fly further, and make it better, more advanced than any 737 before"

*6 Million Dollar Man theme plays*

Be careful! Remember that Steve Austin became the 6 million dollar man because he was involved in a plane crash!

SparkingWave ~~~
Flights to the moon and all major space stations. At Pan Am, the sky is no longer the limit!
 
bcbhokie
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:18 pm

This sounds a bit nuts on the face of it, but with the 757 line shut down and the 767 line on its last legs, the 737 and 787 become the logical replacement for both. For reference, you're looking at 200ish pax on a 752, 230ish pax on a 753, 220ish on a 762, and 269ish for a 763, based on the aircraft data here on airliners.net.

The experience of Song tells me that it is possible to run a successful low cost operation (involving Atlanta, even!) on a 757 sized aircraft. The Song 752s are configured to 199 seats and people's reaction to the product seems to be pretty good.

Southwest runs a good 737-based airline, but it's a very focused point-to-point operation and doesn't meet the needs of everyone in the US. The mere existence of WN forces the other LCCs to get a bit more creative..... Right now, AirTran (with 717s and 737s) superficially resembles Southwest, but AirTran has a unique asset of a huge hub operation in Atlanta - with Delta at its weakest right now, I'd argue that if international expansion is ever on FL's strategic plan, now's the time to explore it.

Now, if you look at the 787, both the 787-8 and 787-3 look intriguing for an airline like Airtran. The 787-8 seating capacity (210-250) is similar to a 753/762, while the 787-3 trades a bunch of range for a bunch of seats (packing in 290 according to Boeing's numbers!). The 783's range is 3500nm, which would be pushing it a bit from Atlanta where most routes are between 3500 and 4000 nm... not sure what the options are there, but maybe they could lose some seating or sacrifice some cargo capacity in a bid to reduce weight. Failing that, the 788 certainly has ample range to make it anywhere in Europe. Both certainly look more viable than, say, the A330, which is a bit too much plane for a low cost Atlanta-to-Europe network, or the A321/B739, neither of which have enough oomph to fly a full network of European routes from ATL.

If FL thinks they can get enough passengers interested in low cost travel to Europe, it could be incredibly profitable... especially if they could consistently fill a 783 worth to some big European destinations. Delta runs 777s and 767s to both LGW and CDG, so there is plenty of traffic available for the taking. There are certainly plenty of people who'd like to go to Europe but can't afford to, so with a low cost-structure and efficient aircraft, Airtran would be well positioned to drive down the ticket cost and grow the market.

The extra expense of the 787 almost certainly isn't worth it exclusively for domestic ops, but having the 787 in the fleet would give them interesting options down the road if air travel demand skyrockets in the next 10 years or so.... I can totally see a 787 making ATL-LAX runs for example. What a comfortable in-flight experience that would be! The key for FL will be picking the right variant, configuring and scheduling it appropriately, if they decide to pursue this... if they can only find enough passengers for one daily european flight, they could use the aircraft to do a domestic run or two while waiting for the next overseas cycle to improve utilization. They could even order a limited number of 787 and use them for high capacity domestic trunk routes until they're ready to open international service, although that probably doesn't make sense for an airline like FL.

The bottom line is... if Airtran can afford the capital expense of acquiring 787s and can find enough passengers to fill them up, they would be able to offer a pretty darn compelling product to popular European vacation destinations. The 787 would be interesting as a component of a low cost operation... being a widebody, you would think turn times would be somewhat improved with two aisles to load with, for example.

Do I think this will happen? Not immediately, but I wouldn't put an order past them either. I actually wouldn't be surprised to see Airtran reserve 787 delivery slots - if they have to back out, i'm sure they could work out a deal with Boeing to transfer the deposits to more 737 frames, so it would be a pretty low risk choice with potentially huge payoffs. Better to get on the list now and be prepared to jump in at the peak of opportunity than to wait and allow Delta to gain strength... besides, the PR that would come from a 787 order would definitely help improve the brand starting right now!

ETOPS certification would probably be a royal pain in the behind though. I assume FL isn't certified already... but if you're adopting an entire new type and an international route strategy, I'm sure you can handle ETOPS too  Smile

Obviously they'd never manage to get LHR slots, but is LGW slot restricted? You can't exactly open new service if you can't get slots, and London would be critical to making this work. Also, what about CDG?

Ben
 
steeler83
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:48 am

Do you think that ATL will be the only city to see FL transatlantic service should FL explore such service? Would they even consider expansion at a northeastern city that they have a pretty strong presence in, especially in BWI, PIT, or IND, where they don't have much of, if any, U.S. legacy carriers doing transatlantic routes? I'd like to think that they would, but that is just me...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
lehpron
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:59 am

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 2):
The 787 option makes the most sense to me if they plan on crossing the pond.

How do you figure? Is it a question of capacity, frequency, or range; just to name a few?

Quoting Flying_727 (Reply 5):
Air Tran knows that their current business model is a winner, and it would be a mistake to change it that drastically.

If you happen to know their business model (or your best guess), would you inform me? what sort of drastic change would there be?

Quoting MKEdude (Reply 17):
Who knows what may happen 5-10 years down the line

The loud minority on A.net are sure they do, they include the ones that use the word "never".

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 25):
Yeah, in 5 or 10 years or so, but not now... Other bigger fish to fry right now...

When carriers order aircraft, they don't just pop out like paper in a copying machine, if there is a back log it will take years. Businesses cannot think in terms of "now", they have to plan ahead.

Quoting BCBHokie (Reply 33):
If FL thinks they can get enough passengers interested in low cost travel to Europe, it could be incredibly profitable...

If travel can be low cost, the route can become irrelevant.
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
steeler83
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:03 am

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 35):
When carriers order aircraft, they don't just pop out like paper in a copying machine, if there is a back log it will take years. Businesses cannot think in terms of "now", they have to plan ahead.

I was acutally referring to the short term, as in within this year or next...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
bcbhokie
Posts: 135
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:13 am

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 35):
Quoting BCBHokie (Reply 33):
If FL thinks they can get enough passengers interested in low cost travel to Europe, it could be incredibly profitable...

If travel can be low cost, the route can become irrelevant.

Good point - although people are still psychologically willing to pay higher fares on trans-atlantic flights, so as I understand it those routes are (at least for now) higher yielding for carriers of any cost structure. If FL can bring a much lower cost structure while keeping similar (or slightly lowered) fares, the payoff could be enormous.
 
lehpron
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:22 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 36):
I was acutally referring to the short term, as in within this year or next...

Pardon me if I still didn't get what you meant before, but what did you mean by "bigger fish to fry" in the meantime? Methinks specific carrier growth (unless rampant) during a short-term may not necessitate need for aircraft to go into service for that year or so. Rather, airlines plan for relatively larger growth in the future (greater than a few years) and thus order more than a few frames.

Technically, all we can do it trend analysis on growth. Airlines will do a number of things to decide what to get, provided they even need it. Whatever happens in terms of orders over this year or next, will be for the future, not now. That was what I was talking about, and probably not really what you were talking about, but hey. Big grin
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:23 am

In Related Stories, Northwest Airlines announced the intent to hire 10,000 new Flight Attendants and order 100 A380s. Also, Look for Delta Air Lines to change their livery that meets this year's standards.  Yeah sure
Puhdiddle
 
lehpron
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:34 am

Quoting Bcbhokie (Reply 37):
...although people are still psychologically willing to pay higher fares...

I know the industry is going to give me a hard time because I've already set my sights on killing that perception. But first, I must show that risks, while may be costly development-wise, are still worth investing...as you said, "the payoff could be enormous"  Wink
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
steeler83
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:45 am

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 40):
I know the industry is going to give me a hard time because I've already set my sights on killing that perception. But first, I must show that risks, while may be costly development-wise, are still worth investing...as you said, "the payoff could be enormous"

I agree. Without risk, there wouldn't be much of anythin in the business field. Business is all about taking risks, and this one really does look as though it could possibly bear fruit if taken and analized appropriately...
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flyf15
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:49 am

I once heard the same type of rumor from a Frontier insider. It was that they were looking at buying A330-200s for Atlantic and Pacific routes in the event of United shutting down. People talk, rumors go around, rarely does anything come of them...
 
jorge1812
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Fri Apr 21, 2006 6:41 am

Quoting MarkATL (Reply 28):
I also heard from a very reliable source at LH, that they are about to sign a deal for 25 (plus 25 options) new 767-230s. They won't be ERs because they plan to use them for a new low cost operation. They plan to offer hourly service from Bremen to Hanover, Leipzig, Stuttgart, Nurnberg and Dusseldorf. It's still undeceided but they are also looking at every thirty minute service from Hahn to München and Berlin (SXF). The current proposal would be for a fleet of 20 747-830SRs. Latter on they might extend this service to the new low cost "Super Hub" at Bremen. It's all very hush hush, I really can't go into any more detail.....yet.

Never, never, never! is the 762 still in construction? Doubt that highly!!!

Georg
 
steeler83
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Fri Apr 21, 2006 6:48 am

What is the likelihood of FL expanding their service in places like IND, PIT, or BWI, just out of curiosity? Anyone have any ideas?
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
Indy
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:25 am

The FL CEO promised further expansion in IND. But no idea what the scope will be.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
centrair
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:51 am

Quoting MarkATL (Reply 28):
I also heard from a very reliable source at LH, that they are about to sign a deal for 25 (plus 25 options) new 767-230s. They won't be ERs because they plan to use them for a new low cost operation. They plan to offer hourly service from Bremen to Hanover, Leipzig, Stuttgart, Nurnberg and Dusseldorf. It's still undeceided but they are also looking at every thirty minute service from Hahn to München and Berlin (SXF). The current proposal would be for a fleet of 20 747-830SRs. Latter on they might extend this service to the new low cost "Super Hub" at Bremen. It's all very hush hush, I really can't go into any more detail.....yet.

Really it's true, I heard it from an insider at LH.

I've got another friend who is in a position at Southwest that I can't mention. Shetold me about a pending A380 order. I'll discuss that later.

Please share man...don't hog the good stuff. And if it isn't from a Cheech and Chong Adventure, the person feeding you this stuff certainly has been on the Train to Bangkok.
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dazeflight
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:29 pm

Quoting Jorge1812 (Reply 43):
Never, never, never! is the 762 still in construction? Doubt that highly!!!

Georg

Georg, I think you need to re-adjust your irony detectors  Wink
 
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Stitch
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:55 pm

Quoting Jorge1812 (Reply 43):
Never, never, never! is the 762 still in construction? Doubt that highly!!!

Yes, the 767-200ER is still available from Boeing. They are currently building one right now (I believe it will become a KC-767 for the Italian Air Force).
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner

Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:09 pm

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 35):
How do you figure? Is it a question of capacity, frequency, or range; just to name a few?

Range and capacity. Although the 737 could cross the Atlantic, it has limited range, capacity and higher CASM compared to the 787. Also, I'm too sure how many destinations they could make in Europe from ATL with a 737.

I also think there may be some hesitancy on the part of the flying public to cross the Atlantic on what is percieved (rightly or wrongly) to be a domestic use aircraft. After all, would you rather go to London on a 737 or a DL 767??
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