Door5Right
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Ryanair Blasts The Latest BA Fuel Surcharge

Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:21 am

Off Ryanair's web site:

RYANAIR GUARANTEES NO FUEL SURCHARGES AS BRITISH AIRWAYS GOUGES PASSENGERS FOR A 7TH TIME
Ryanair, the world’s favourite airline, today criticised British Airways for again increasing fuel surcharges – for a record 7th time – despite the fact that it has substantially hedged most of its fuel for the remainder of 2006 at less than $60 a barrel. Ryanair continues to be the only major airline in Britain which guarantees no fuel surcharges, today, tomorrow or ever. Oil prices can double again to $150 per barrel and Ryanair still won’t apply fuel surcharges.

Criticising British Airways for its constant gouging of consumers, Ryanair’s Chief Executive, Michael O’Leary said:

“Yet again British Airways go for the soft option. This is the 7th separate fuel surcharge British Airways have introduced since May 2004. Over the past two years as oil prices have doubled from $35 to $70 a barrel, British Airways’ fuel surcharges have increased fourteen fold from £2.50 per sector to £35 per sector. This is price gouging of consumers.

“At £35 per sector, British Airways’ fuel surcharge is greater than Ryanair’s average fare (£28 per sector). Isn’t it time that BA stopped gouging passengers and started reducing other costs instead?

“Ryanair would be pleased to hear from the so called Air Transport Users Committee in the UK who have remained steadfastly silent, whilst British Airways have added 7 separate fuel surcharges to hard pressed consumers. Since this
quango claims to represent air transport users, why does it continue to remain silent while British Airways levy 7 separate fuel surcharges?”

For the record Ryanair guarantees no fuel surcharges, today, tomorrow or ever. Ryanair’s average fare (£28) is now less than British Airways one way fuel surcharge (£35). The message for British consumers and visitors couldn’t be clearer. If you want to get there on-time, on brand new aircraft and be certain of no fuel surcharges fly Ryanair. If you want to pay 7 separate fuel surcharges, on old aircraft and don’t mind being late, fly BA.

Ends.

Anyone know how Ryanair manages to keep keep flying without fuel surcharges? Is Ryanair just better at hedging fuel costs in advance?
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mhodgson
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RE: Ryanair Blasts The Latest BA Fuel Surcharge

Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:20 am

Quoting Door5Right (Thread starter):
Anyone know how Ryanair manages to keep keep flying without fuel surcharges? Is Ryanair just better at hedging fuel costs in advance?

They just increase fares. If oil went to $150 a barrel, FR wouldn't be able to offer as many cheap fares. We'd just see more high-level fares, and fewer sales and pomotions.

All the press release says is no fuel surcharges - increasing the basic fare to cover the additional charges is probably fair game to the O'Leary PR machine.
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TomFoolery
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RE: Ryanair Blasts The Latest BA Fuel Surcharge

Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:29 am

I could only wish that airlines would start charging fares in accordance with costs. I refuse to believe that a 500EUR ticket really needs to carry an additional 210+EUR tax and fees to the US.
UAL.com MUC-IAD is less than 90EUR in taxes on the UA 902, but why is the LH9280 over 120EUR in tax on the same plane?
The industry needs to be forced to disclose all taxes and fees upfront, and not just some fine print describing the nature of the fees*.
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mutu
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RE: Ryanair Blasts The Latest BA Fuel Surcharge

Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:43 am

well just for the record shorthaul surcharges havent increased. A further supplem,ent has been added to longhaul oil surcharges only.
 
N1120A
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RE: Ryanair Blasts The Latest BA Fuel Surcharge

Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:51 am

I wonder when BA will blast FR's latest Health, Safety or Labor violation?
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trekster
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RE: Ryanair Blasts The Latest BA Fuel Surcharge

Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:55 am

So there not having at go at other carriers in the UK that have done the same.
Have not VS upped theres a few times as well.
And since when is FR the worlds Fav airline, there just nicking one of our slogans
HAHAHA
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LTU932
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RE: Ryanair Blasts The Latest BA Fuel Surcharge

Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:59 am

FR should just mind their own business. They're an LCC, BA is not. FR should just focus on what they do and not go around bashing the major airlines for doing something that is common practice. MOL should just get off his high horse and do something productive for a change.
 
A319XFW
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RE: Ryanair Blasts The Latest BA Fuel Surcharge

Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:03 am

Quoting Door5Right (Thread starter):
Ryanair, the world’s favourite airline



Quoting Trekster (Reply 5):
And since when is FR the worlds Fav airline, there just nicking one of our slogans

I was wondering that, too. Since when can you fly FR in South America for example...
Anyhoo.

Quoting Door5Right (Thread starter):
At £35 per sector, British Airways’ fuel surcharge is greater than Ryanair’s average fare (£28 per sector). Isn’t it time that BA stopped gouging passengers and started reducing other costs instead?

Perhaps because BA's sector is a slight bit longer than FR's sector.

Quoting Door5Right (Thread starter):
Ryanair would be pleased to hear from the so called Air Transport Users Committee in the UK who have remained steadfastly silent, whilst British Airways have added 7 separate fuel surcharges to hard pressed consumers. Since this
quango claims to represent air transport users, why does it continue to remain silent while British Airways levy 7 separate fuel surcharges?”

I don't know who the ATUC is, but it seems FR is trying to hit as many crows as possible with one stone .

Quoting Door5Right (Thread starter):
If you want to get there on-time, on brand new aircraft and be certain of no fuel surcharges fly Ryanair

Perhaps FR wants to start flying long-haul.
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HAJFlyer
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RE: Ryanair Blasts The Latest BA Fuel Surcharge

Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:06 am

Quoting TomFoolery (Reply 2):
The industry needs to be forced to disclose all taxes and fees upfront, and not just some fine print describing the nature of the fees*.

In Switzerland the competition commission has ruled that from June onwards airlines have to quote the true cost of a ticket including taxes and surcharges in their advertisements; LX and LH are already complying.

[Edited 2006-04-18 22:11:24]
 
mutu
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RE: Ryanair Blasts The Latest BA Fuel Surcharge

Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:09 am

Quoting HAJFlyer (Reply 8):
In Switzerland the competition competition has ruled that from June onwards airlines have to quote the true cost of a ticket including taxes and surcharges in their advertisements; LX and LH are already complying.

This is a practice adopted by some UK airlines. The issue really is, when is an oil surcharge a price rise and when is a price rise an oil surcharge. FR fares are rising (they will always have SOME £1 fares, thats what they want us to remember them for) but they are not surcharges!
 
HS748
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RE: Ryanair Blasts The Latest BA Fuel Surcharge

Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:10 am

Quoting Mhodgson (Reply 1):
All the press release says is no fuel surcharges - increasing the basic fare to cover the additional charges is probably fair game to the O'Leary PR machine.

What evidence do you have to support this bold statement? The lowest pre-tax fare from MAN to DUB, for example, is 49p and has been for quite some time.
 
trekster
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RE: Ryanair Blasts The Latest BA Fuel Surcharge

Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:18 am

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 7):
Quoting Door5Right (Thread starter):
If you want to get there on-time, on brand new aircraft and be certain of no fuel surcharges fly Ryanair

Perhaps FR wants to start flying long-haul.

And start landing at the right airport. AND provide decent customer service for a change. AND stop charging for baggage AND alot of other things
Where does the time go???
 
A319XFW
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RE: Ryanair Blasts The Latest BA Fuel Surcharge

Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:25 am

Quoting Trekster (Reply 11):
And start landing at the right airport

The odd thing is, I saw in the paper today that they are advertising an airport as 'Pisa (Florence)' I would have thought that Florence is a nicer place to visit (I thought so anyway when I went to both) and you'd advertise it as Florence!
 
fbgdavidson
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RE: Ryanair Blasts The Latest BA Fuel Surcharge

Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:34 am

Have to say, as I fly BA more than any other airline it is annoying to see continual surcharges put on taxes. Why can't BA factor this into the cost of the ticket I don't know, well I do, corporate discounts, shareholder bookings and award tickets only are applicable to base fare, not the surcharges, taxes and 9/11 fee and all that...

As someone on BA Flyertalk says:
'I may introduce a power surcharge for my clients as power prices have gone up, and I need power to run my PC.'

Quoting HS748 (Reply 10):
The lowest pre-tax fare from MAN to DUB, for example, is 49p and has been for quite some time.

Yes, but the numbers of seats at that price is probably going down.
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mhodgson
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RE: Ryanair Blasts The Latest BA Fuel Surcharge

Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:40 am

Quoting HS748 (Reply 10):
What evidence do you have to support this bold statement? The lowest pre-tax fare from MAN to DUB, for example, is 49p and has been for quite some time.

The actual number of those fares may have decreased, though. Also, I was not intentionally referring to the present:

My point is, that when/if oil does reach $150 a barrel, are FR really not going to charge a surcharge? They will increase fares instead. I highly doubt FR will succeed with their incredibly low fares, when fuel is that high.
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prebennorholm
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RE: Ryanair Blasts The Latest BA Fuel Surcharge

Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:11 am

Is that correct, that BA adds a £35 per sector fuel surcharge?

Let's take one example - a BA A320 flying a 1000 km (600 miles) sector, for instance LHR - CPH.

Plane is configured for 150 pax, load factor = 67% = 100 pax = £3500.

Plane will consume roughly 15,000 lbs fuel.

Fuel surcharge is considered to cover the crude prise rise from $35 to $70 per barrel.

A little math with conversions will uncover that the BA £35 fuel surcharge in this example corresponds to roughly $130 per barrel jet fuel.

The only thing not taken into account is the fact that no refinery can produce fully one barrel of fuels from one barrel of crude oil. The refinery burns a few percent itself. That reduces the $130 surcharge figure a little.

But the end of the story is that BA charges a fuel surcharge which is more than three times higher than the price increase which is related to the crude rising from $35 to 70.

The BA fuel surcharge would fit pretty well in this example if the crude price had not risen from $ 35 to $70, but from $35 to something like $150 or $160 per barrel.

Is the fuel surcharge the same £35 on a London - Sidney sector? Then it is a bargain. Ryanair doesn't fly to OZ as far as I know.
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BAxMAN
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RE: Ryanair Blasts The Latest BA Fuel Surcharge

Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:34 am

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 15):
Is that correct, that BA adds a £35 per sector fuel surcharge?

Let's take one example - a BA A320 flying a 1000 km (600 miles) sector, for instance LHR - CPH.

Plane is configured for 150 pax, load factor = 67% = 100 pax = £3500.

Plane will consume roughly 15,000 lbs fuel.

Fuel surcharge is considered to cover the crude prise rise from $35 to $70 per barrel.

Not quite right. The FR propaganda machine is, as always, quite blinkered in its attacks. Of course, the pros and cons of the fuel surcharge are a legitimate debate, particularly in the way that Mr F Davidson describes. But FR is simply displaying the lack of class that has become de rigeur for their media mouthpieces.

The surcharge for a shorthaul journey (such as CPH-LHR) is unchanged at £8.00 per sector. FR needn't be concerned with BA's longhaul surcharge which has gone up to £35.00 per sector.

Interesting that FR were not outraged when VS increased their surcharge a few weeks ago. It's all very tacky and now is typically what one comes to expect from FR. Sure, the avergae Joe Pax will not know the ins and outs, and many people here will put this down to the genius and impending sainthood of MOL but I feel a bit uneasy that an established and successful company like FR still feels the need to be so misleading just to attack a competitor. If this is how people feel that businesses should conduct themselves, then that's their funeral.
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RedChili
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RE: Ryanair Blasts The Latest BA Fuel Surcharge

Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:38 am

This is typical Ryanair nonsense. They compare the BA £35 surcharge with their own air fares without noting that the £35 surcharge is for long haul flights only. So they're actually comparing a BA flight LHR-HKG with the prices on FR between STN-DUB!

The truth is, however, that on intra-European flights BA is charging "only" (which is a relative term) £8 per sector.

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 15):
Is that correct, that BA adds a £35 per sector fuel surcharge?

Let's take one example - a BA A320 flying a 1000 km (600 miles) sector, for instance LHR - CPH.

Check the official info from BA before trusting what FR claims. Between CPH-LHR, the surcharge is £8.
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prebennorholm
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RE: Ryanair Blasts The Latest BA Fuel Surcharge

Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:59 am

Thanks BAxMAN and RedChili.

The BA £8 fuel surcharge on short haul is very reasonable. It just barely covers the crude hike from $35 to $70.
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PA110
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RE: Ryanair Blasts The Latest BA Fuel Surcharge

Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:48 am

Quoting TomFoolery (Reply 2):
I could only wish that airlines would start charging fares in accordance with costs. I refuse to believe that a 500EUR ticket really needs to carry an additional 210+EUR tax and fees to the US.
UAL.com MUC-IAD is less than 90EUR in taxes on the UA 902, but why is the LH9280 over 120EUR in tax on the same plane?
The industry needs to be forced to disclose all taxes and fees upfront, and not just some fine print describing the nature of the fees*.
I hate being taken for a sucker.



Up until recently, UA along with most U.S. carriers chose to show their fuel surcharges as an actual surcharge to the base fare, and they surcharged only the transatlantic leg $55 each way (now $65 each way). LH and most most other carriers, show the fuel surcharge as either a YQ or YR tax. So, on a simple roundtrip on direct flights without any onward connections, UA's base fare will be $130 more than LH, but the tax will be $130 less. The totals should price out the identically. UA has just changed to show their fuel surcharges as a YQ tax , to remain consistant with LH, with whom they share revenue on transatlantic services.

I specifically mention direct flights without onward connections, becuase this is where the inequities start developing. Consider the following journey:

STL UA x/ORD UA FRA UA x/ORD UA STL. UA applies their fuel surcharge only to the transatlantic crossing. If you sell this itinerary using the actual UA operating flights, you will get the $65 per direction fuel surcharge, for a total of $130. However, if you book this same itinerary under LH codeshare flight numbers, You will pay $160 in fuel surcharges - because LH applies a fuel surcharge to every single leg of the journey. (longhaul at $65 per sector, shorthaul at $15 per sector) I don't actually know what happens to the extra $30 dollars because UA doesn't collect fuel surcharges for the domestic legs of an international connection.

Incidentally, KLM and AF in order to match NW and DL respectively show their fuel surcharges as a surcharge to the base fare of the ticket, instead of as a tax.

[Edited 2006-04-19 00:53:08]
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olympicbis
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RE: Ryanair Blasts The Latest BA Fuel Surcharge

Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:59 pm

Quoting BAxMAN (Reply 16):
But FR is simply displaying the lack of class that has become de rigeur for their media mouthpieces.

Well said !

Quoting Door5Right (Thread starter):
Ryanair, the world’s favourite airline

In their wildest dreams !
If it would become the "world's favourite airline", it probably can happen only in some kind of parallel universe.
 
BCAL
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RE: Ryanair Blasts The Latest BA Fuel Surcharge

Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:17 pm

I think it is high time the airlines were forced to show the fully inclusive fares, rather than add on all the surcharges, taxes and supplements.

I mean look at some bargain fares quoted by BA - basic fare £18 return plus £44.10 taxes, fuel surcharges and supplements, total £62.10. Asking for a breakdown of the £44.10, BA's website states that there is an insurance and security supplement of £2.50 for each leg, a fuel surcharge of £8 for each leg and UK Government Passenger Duty of £10. That gives a total of £31, so what does the balance of £13.10 represent? The fat cat's tax?

Monarch is another bad example. It shows bargain fares at £29.99 each way but when you add taxes, supplements and surcharges, instead of being just under £60, the total is well over £120. At least Monarch shows a detailed breakdown of the surcharges. But passenger service charges, airport departure tax and airport handling charges? Surely all these are an integral part of the fare which should be shown fully inclusive?

If you went to an electrical store and brought a washing machine, you are not quoted a price as follows:
  • Model cost £20
  • Distributor's mark-up £20
  • Shop's profit £40
  • Storage charges (whilst held in stock) £15
  • Delivery charges £15
  • VAT £21
  • Total £141
So why should it be any different for an airline fare?

Quoting Olympicbis (Reply 20):
Quoting Door5Right (Thread starter):
Ryanair, the world’s favourite airline

In their wildest dreams !
If it would become the "world's favourite airline", it probably can happen only in some kind of parallel universe

No worse that Virgin claiming to be the UK's flag carrier (when 49% owned by SQ and the remaining 51% held through non-UK holding companies) or one of the world's best airlines.
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
lapper
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RE: Ryanair Blasts The Latest BA Fuel Surcharge

Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:34 pm

Quoting BCAL (Reply 21):
mean look at some bargain fares quoted by BA - basic fare £18 return plus £44.10 taxes, fuel surcharges and supplements, total £62.10. Asking for a breakdown of the £44.10, BA's website states that there is an insurance and security supplement of £2.50 for each leg, a fuel surcharge of £8 for each leg and UK Government Passenger Duty of £10. That gives a total of £31, so what does the balance of £13.10 represent? The fat cat's tax?

That would be the UB tax, the charge for the privilege of using the airport, which of course you have no choice but to.
 
AlanUK
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RE: Ryanair Blasts The Latest BA Fuel Surcharge

Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:40 pm

What an interesting thread!

Quoting N1120A (Reply 4):
I wonder when BA will blast FR's latest Health, Safety or Labor violation?

Never! BA, thank godness, doesn't play these games of cheap "in your face" PR rubbish that appeal to shav-ville residents and other Sun readers...
 
HBDAN
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RE: Ryanair Blasts The Latest BA Fuel Surcharge

Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:01 pm

Quoting RedChili (Reply 17):
This is typical Ryanair nonsense. They compare the BA £35 surcharge with their own air fares without noting that the £35 surcharge is for long haul flights only. So they're actually comparing a BA flight LHR-HKG with the prices on FR between STN-DUB!

The truth is, however, that on intra-European flights BA is charging "only" (which is a relative term) £8 per sector.

... Not really a smart move by FR. Let's say that ereryone with a QI above 7 should understand that you can not compare BA's long haule routes with FR's short haule ones! FR's PR seems to have lost its full-of-good-idea-brain in the last time...

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StarGoldLHR
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RE: Ryanair Blasts The Latest BA Fuel Surcharge

Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:49 am

Is it me or did I miss something...

I heard the Fuel Surcharges only applied to BA fares "sold in the UK".

if you buy a BRU-LHR-JFK-LHR-BRU, or a SFO-LHR-SFO the fuel charge isnt applied.


another interesting point..

what if your buying a BA codeshare ticket ? Ie for a Qantas flight ?.. surely this would make Qantas cheaper to fly than BA ?
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RedChili
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RE: Ryanair Blasts The Latest BA Fuel Surcharge

Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:15 am

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 25):
I heard the Fuel Surcharges only applied to BA fares "sold in the UK".

if you buy a BRU-LHR-JFK-LHR-BRU, or a SFO-LHR-SFO the fuel charge isnt applied.

Some quotes from the BA press release (my emphasis):

Quote:
British Airways will look to increase its fuel surcharges to similar levels on longhaul flights sold in overseas markets...

May 13, 2004: Introduced a £2.50 per sector surcharge on longhaul and shorthaul. For all flights booked outside the UK the airline introduced a fuel surcharge of USD $4 per sector.

September 12, 2005. Surcharge increased from £24 per sector on longhaul to £30 per secton. Shorthaul remained unchanged at £8 per sector. Equivalent rises in other markets outside the UK.

It seems to me that as of today, the fuel surcharge on long haul flights sold outside of the UK is the dollar equivalent of £30 per sector, but BA will probably raise those surcharges in the near future.
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RedChili
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RE: Ryanair Blasts The Latest BA Fuel Surcharge

Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:24 am

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 25):
what if your buying a BA codeshare ticket ? Ie for a Qantas flight ?.. surely this would make Qantas cheaper to fly than BA ?

I found a QF press release from 23 August 2005 where they say:

Quote:
* For Qantas domestic travel in Australia and New Zealand, an increase of $6 from $20 to $26 incl GST;
* For QantasLink domestic travel, an increase of $2 from $20 to $22 incl GST;
* For Qantas trans-Tasman travel, an increase of $6 from $40 to $46; and
* For other Qantas and Australian Airlines international travel, an increase of $15 from $60 to $75.

They will be effective on tickets issued on or after Friday 2 September 2005.

I assume that this means that QF international flights still has a fuel surcharge of 75 Australian dollars.
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ANother
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RE: Ryanair Blasts The Latest BA Fuel Surcharge

Thu Apr 20, 2006 2:10 am

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 18):
The BA £8 fuel surcharge on short haul is very reasonable. It just barely covers the crude hike from $35 to $70.

$71.80 was the price of 'light sweat crude' today - not the price of kerosene which is at least $13 higher pbl than crude. In addition to the doubling of crude prices the airlines have to cope with the increase in the 'crack-spread' (the difference between crude and refined) from less than $6 to over $13.

Quoting HBDAN (Reply 24):
Let's say that ereryone with a QI above 7 should understand that you can not compare BA's long haule routes with FR's short haule ones!

Unless, of course, you are in the media! Every time MOL opens his mouth the media falls over themselves giving free publicity.

However, since it looks like $70 pbl prices look to be with us for a few years - it probably is time to start factoring these surcharges into the base fares. But that discussion is for another thread.
 
DavidT
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RE: Ryanair Blasts The Latest BA Fuel Surcharge

Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:33 am

I reguarly see ads by BA which quote prices including all surcharges and taxes. I think there's a large billboard advertising man-belfast city at the international baggage reclaim in T3 MAN doing just that.
 
vv701
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RE: Ryanair Blasts The Latest BA Fuel Surcharge

Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:03 am

Quoting HBDAN (Reply 24):
... Not really a smart move by FR. Let's say that ereryone with a QI above 7 should understand that you can not compare BA's long haule routes with FR's short haule ones!

I am not so sure. In this thread one respondent calculated the fuel surcharge at £35 a passenger on a 320 operating LHR-CPH. And all replies up to Reply 17:

Quoting RedChili (Reply 17):
They compare the BA £35 surcharge with their own air fares without noting that the £35 surcharge is for long haul flights only.

seems to have accepted the Ryanair statement at face value. And remember we, unlike Joe Public, are meant to know a little about the airline business. However the Ryanair statement is meant to mislead. It is therefore deceptive and the worst type of promotional activity.
 
mutu
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RE: Ryanair Blasts The Latest BA Fuel Surcharge

Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:07 am

Quoting BCAL (Reply 21):
think it is high time the airlines were forced to show the fully inclusive fares, rather than add on all the surcharges, taxes and supplements.

The far quoted each leg on BA.com is fully inclusive of all charges taxes etc so it is what you get before you make the decision to purchase. It is fully transparent prior to purchase There are still some airlines whose system tells you the fare is £x and once you select "purchase ticket" you find out it is £xx, but NOT BA

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