WN57787
Topic Author
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WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:58 pm

New Service from PHL to CMH and BNA Starting July 2 2006 It's about time PHL BNA service is Non Stop.
 
N670UW
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WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:12 am

Additional PHL-PVD/MCO and MDW-SAT/PDX on the way, too.

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....Article_Print&ID=844552&highlight=


N670UW
 
atrude777
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WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:22 am

Whats interesting of the big 4 cities, BWI, MDW, LAS and PHX, only BWI has n/s to all florida cities, and PHL is starting to become a key player for SWA now, and also has non stop to all florida cities before MDW, LAS and PHX do!

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
ScottB
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WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:25 am

Wow...by my count, that puts Southwest at 65 daily departures from PHL -- and this less than 26 months after starting service there. PHL-CMH wasn't available by a bookable connection, and PHL-BNA can probably support the two daily frequencies added. I'd guess that PHL-BUF is next given the BloFares(tm) offered by US in that market.

They've also opened up the published schedule through September 12 at this point.
 
PHLBOS
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WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:41 am

I, for one, am glad that WN will be offering PHL-BNA n/s service. It gives both my father (who lives in BNA) & I another option among non-stops and will keep the fares at more reasonable levels.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 3):
I'd guess that PHL-BUF is next given the BloFares(tm) offered by US in that market.

One or two of my co-workers stationed at our Buffalo office would LUV to see that become reality.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
quickmover
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WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:46 am

Kind of surprised they haven't announced any more DEN flights.
 
WN57787
Topic Author
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WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:50 am

only 2 gates in DEN... 8 gates in PHL avrage 10 flts to Gate. in a day.. PHL has lots of groth ahead.
 
flyinryan99
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WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:49 am

Quoting WN57787 (Reply 6):
only 2 gates in DEN

I was there just last week and they had 3 gates they were using...with C47 unused right now. IIRC C47 was rumored to be theirs soon.
 
bluejackets
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WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:49 am

Quoting WN57787 (Thread starter):
New Service from PHL to CMH and BNA Starting July 2 2006 It's about time PHL BNA service is Non Stop.

Just in time for the new WN gate space. There was virtually no way they could have added anything else from CMH without it. Might be the first of a few new n/s from CMH.

Also, hopefully BWI-CMH will remain strong. I know some Eastern PA'ers who drove to BWI for WN to CMH.

[Edited 2006-04-19 21:04:11]
It's funny when I tell people I love planes and they think I'm weird.
 
steeler83
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WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:58 am

Quoting WN57787 (Reply 6):
PHL has lots of groth ahead.

I wish the same was for WN in PIT... How about someone wake me up when they actually DO add more service there, which, in this case, might as well be 10 years... The heck with WN here, someone else commit to serving southwestern PA for a change. Lord knows I'll be leaving that hell hole soon anyway... The city is trying to grow and PIT continues to get the cold sholder and door mat treatment... I think I'll jump on the PHL and BWI bandwagons here and declare one of those as my home now; they're among the places anyone really cares about anyway   

I don't intend to sound a bit harsh on the subject here; its just that I am starting to lose faith in WN's presence in PIT. I want soooo much for that airport and region to expand and it CONTINUES to head the wrong way. Given the harsh times that place has gone through over the years it's disheartening...

[Edited 2006-04-19 21:01:45]
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flyCMH
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WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:04 am

Here's the official press release:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060419/daw020.html?.v=54

This should play out quite interestingly in Columbus. The last time USAirways was challenged on the PHL-CMH route was when America West flew it back in the hub days of Columbus. I believe the route was flown 4 times a day with ERJ-145s at the latest, and the flights did moderately well as far as loads went.

The Columbus-Philadelphia route had always been a mainline or mainline/regional mix until late last year, when the A321s and 737-400s flying the route were replaced with a mix of E170s, CRJs, and ERJs. USAirways will still trump Southwest by more than double the number of daily flights (US 7x daily, WN 3x daily), but I wonder if USAirways will bring a first class product back on the route to futher differentiate themselves from Southwest.

As for Southwest, this will definitely help boost their presence here. With the 3 new flights, WN will be up to 24 daily departures from CMH. My guess this being made possible by their upcoming relocation to Concourse A. Right now they can barely handle the current 21 daily flights from their 3 gates in Concourse C.
 
WN57787
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:17 am

PIT does not have a Strong Load Factor as PHL does.. there is not the O/D for PIT as there is in PHL We all hop WN adds in PIT Hope soon...
 
mah584jr
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:27 am

I love this news. Southwest and PHL are working out very well for each other. I can't wait to see how many flights they add once terminal E construction is completed with the new hammerhead.
 
steeler83
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:35 am

Quoting WN57787 (Reply 11):
PIT does not have a Strong Load Factor as PHL does..

Hopefully this will be changing veerrrrry soon. The city is reorganizing its business product after the collapse of the steel industry. As the business market grows then the O&D demand should go through the roof. The city has just approved of the construction of One International Center on the city's South Side, and there are numerous business mergers and expansions taking place within the region.

Hopefully those companies will continue to remain loyal to Pittsburgh and not stab it in the back or give it that undeserved, unnecessary door mat treatment that so many other companies have dealt the city. I guess it's also a lack of competence from the city as well that causes businesses to up and leave... Good job Tom Murphy Administration!!!  sarcastic 

Okay, maybe I'll wait for another PIT-related thread to start before making these posts; they're off topic... I'd start one myself but I have no idea as to what to call it. I already started one called "future of PIT" a while back...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
floorrunner
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:40 am

This is great news for me. I can see myself using the CMH PHL service at least 5 or 6 times a year.
 
iowaman
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:52 am

Quoting WN57787 (Reply 11):
PIT does not have a Strong Load Factor as PHL does.. there is not the O/D for PIT as there is in PHL We all hop WN adds in PIT Hope soon...

Do you have any specific numbers?

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 5):
Kind of surprised they haven't announced any more DEN flights.

Me too. Maybe after earning announcements tomorrow

Quoting Bluejackets (Reply 8):
Just in time for the new WN gate space. There was virtually no way they could have added anything else from CMH without it. Might be the first of a few new n/s from CMH.

3 gates and currently 21 flights? That's one of the lower gate utilization rates in the WN system.
 
WN57787
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:54 am

I hope that the O&D grows in PIT.... the Airport and the area Need it.
 
WN57787
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:58 am

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 15):
Quoting WN57787 (Reply 11):
PIT does not have a Strong Load Factor as PHL does.. there is not the O/D for PIT as there is in PHL We all hop WN adds in PIT Hope soon...

Do you have any specific numbers?

the Load factor for pit was in the 50%'s -low 60%'s sence Oct.
 
steeler83
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:59 am

I am actually inclined to start another thread regarding PIT, given the number of PIT-related posts here. Any ideas of what to call it?
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
stirling
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:29 am

Anyone else noticing the shift in WN corporate philosophy?

I know they don't technically have "Hubs", but one would never know it by going here:

http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/routemap_dyn.html

LAS, PHX, ABQ, OAK, HOU, DAL, MDW, TPA, BWI, STL, MCI, BNA, and now PHL.

They sure look like hubs to me, or at least very strong focus cities.

Wonder how long it will be before service is cut between secondary markets, to have the capacity shifted to one of the more major cities of WN ops.

I am thinking of routes like, MAF-AUS, SAN-ELP, SJC-RNO....or is WN still receiving so many new Boeings that route expansion will be accomplished by new deliveries?

With service being started at were once previously taboo airports, like DEN, IAD, and PHL, I wonder how long it is before other parts of the WN model start to fall, like:

>Assigned seating?
>Single fleet type?
>Interline agreements?
>Ticketing flexibility?
>0000-0600 no fly time?
>International destinations?

And by the way, when did PDX-TPA start? I haven't seen anything come down the pike on it, so it is probably a mistake, no? I know they beefed up MDW-PDX. But I would have figured MCO-PDX to start before Tamper.

Southwest reminds me of the way airlines were before deregulation, flying everywhere, from everywhere. Simply amazing. I wonder if they are spreading themselves too thin?
The reason I say this, is because technically, they could probably offer, and do pretty well, offering a nonstop from PHL, to every market east of the Mississippi, and about a third of those west of the divide....but they just don't have the aircraft. Same is probably true for many cities in WN system.
But does this mean the network isn't operating at its fullest potential?
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airwave
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:46 am

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 2):
Whats interesting of the big 4 cities, BWI, MDW, LAS and PHX, only BWI has n/s to all florida cities, and PHL is starting to become a key player for SWA now, and also has non stop to all florida cities before MDW, LAS and PHX do!

Interesting observation. I think that that has more to do with geography than anything, though; East Coasters are more likely to go to Florida for a vacation than to the West Coast.

Quoting Mah584jr (Reply 12):
Southwest and PHL are working out very well for each other. I can't wait to see how many flights they add once terminal E construction is completed with the new hammerhead.

That they are, but I wonder if PHL will ever reach and/or surpass BWI to become another key city for WN. Incidentally, what is up with the Terminal E construction? I haven't heard anything in a while and now I'm curious...

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 18):
I am actually inclined to start another thread regarding PIT, given the number of PIT-related posts here. Any ideas of what to call it?

"WN in So'West PA: It's Da PITs" That's all I got right now, lol.

Airwave  eyebrow 
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
 
iowaman
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:02 am

Quoting WN57787 (Reply 17):
the Load factor for pit was in the 50%'s -low 60%'s sence Oct.

-Thanks.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 19):
And by the way, when did PDX-TPA start?

Must be a route map error, I don't even see it scheduled as Saturday only.
 
steeler83
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:11 am

Quoting Airwave (Reply 20):
"WN in So'West PA: It's Da PITs" That's all I got right now, lol.

Airwave

Thanks Airwave. I think I'll use that one as a title... heh...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
wncmh
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:06 am

Finally, SWA add three nonstop CMH-PHL. I was little susprise add now than later. I wish they add CMH-LAX probably not because of DL.
 
bluejackets
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:10 am

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 15):
3 gates and currently 21 flights? That's one of the lower gate utilization rates in the WN system.

Maybe, but they only use 2 of them after 8:30 in the morning. C48 has 2 flights in the morning. C50 and C51 are used all day. So it's more like 2 for 19. As a frequent CMH observer, it's clear they are in need of more space, especially with the new PHL service. As soon as one WN goes out, another lands. They also have 6 Rons for those 2 or 3 gates, and remote parking is a pain.
It's funny when I tell people I love planes and they think I'm weird.
 
flyCMH
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:40 am

Quote:
Maybe, but they only use 2 of them after 8:30 in the morning. C48 has 2 flights in the morning. C50 and C51 are used all day. So it's more like 2 for 19.

That's right. Southwest outright leases C50 and C51 only; C46 and C48 are used on a fee per departure basis. That must be getting pretty expensive because, as you mentioned, C46 and C48 end up getting used pretty often throughout the day and for all the RON aircraft.
 
DeltaRules
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:15 am

Quoting FlyCMH (Reply 10):
I wonder if USAirways will bring a first class product back on the route to futher differentiate themselves from Southwest.

That would make sense. I was surprised when they took all the A319s & 737s off that route.

Quoting FlyCMH (Reply 25):
That must be getting pretty expensive because, as you mentioned, C46 and C48 end up getting used pretty often throughout the day and for all the RON aircraft.

I noticed that, too. They've used C46 a couple times when I was at CMH, including one day where there were a bunch of delays. Which gates are they taking on Concourse A? A2-4? IIRC, there's no jetway at A1, although interestingly that was WN's gate way back when.

DeltaRules
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LoneStarMike
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:23 am

I thought it would be interesting to compare select PHL O&D statistics and avg. fare information from Q3 2003 (before WN announced PHL -- "Then") to Q3 2005 (the latest data available -- "Now")

I wanted to see which routes have been most successful both in terms of generating the highest numbers of new passengers (on a percentage basis) as well as those which had the most dramatic avg. fare reductions

Looking at markets WN chose in the past (and what market conditions were like before they began service) is one indicator of what WN might do next at PHL.

PHL to:

ORD/MDW - 678 miles

Then: 2003 daily pax
$209.90 avg. fare

Now: 3249 daily pax (up 62.2%)
$118.18 avg. fare (down 43.7%)

FLL - 992 miles

Then: 1362 daily pax
$106.81 avg. fare

Now: 1742 daily pax (up 27.9%)
$99.91 avg. fare (down 6.5%)

BDL - 196 miles

Then: 117 daily pax
$298.08 avg. fare

Now: 488 daily pax (up 317%)
$74.58 avg. fare (down 75%)

HOU - 1335 miles

Then: 624 daily pax
$262.42 avg. fare

Now: 1015 daily pax (up 62.6%)
$148.85 avg. fare (down 43.3%)

JAX - 742 miles

Then: 359 daily pax
$155.43 avg. fare

Now: 661 daily pax (up 84.1%
$107.59 avg. fare (down 30.8%)

LAS - 2176 miles

Then: 1089 daily pax
$185.86 avg. fare

Now: 1743 daily pax (up 60.0%
$163.20 avg. fare (down 12.2%)

LAX - 2401 miles

Then: 1281 daily pax
$254.77 avg. fare

Now: 1952 daily pax (up 52.4%
$191.55 avg. fare (down 24.8%)

MHT - 290 miles

Then: 87 daily pax
$308.46 avg. fare

Now: 1100 daily pax (up 1,164%)
$66.84 avg. fare (down 78.3%)

MCO - 861 miles

Then: 2042 daily pax
$117.71 avg. fare

Now: 3155 daily pax (up 54.5%)
$102.90 avg. fare down 12.6%)

PIT - 267 miles

Then: 463 daily pax
$260.37 avg. fare

Now: 1402 daily pax (up 203%
$83.83 avg. fare (down 67.8%)

PVD - 238 miles

Then: 100 daily pax
$328.22 avg. fare

Now: 989 daily pax (up 889%)
$70.68 avg. fare (down 78.5%)

RDU - 336 miles

Then: 403 daily pax
$213.24 avg. fare

Now: 1512 daily pax (up 275%)
$76.19 avg. fare (down 64.3%)

TPA - 928 miles

Then: 987 daily pax
$127.34 avg. fare

Now: 1552 daily pax (up 57.2%)
$106.20 avg. fare (down 16.6%)

PBI - 951 miles

Then: 457 daily pax
$119.84 avg. fare

Now: 739 daily pax (up 61.7%)
$103.15 avg. fare (down 13.9%)

The top 5 WN markets out of PHL that showed the biggest changes both in new passengers and fare reductions were BDL MHT, PIT, PVD, and RDU.

Before WN entered PHL, US had a 90% or greater market share in 4 out of 5 of these markets (MHT, PVD, BDL, and PIT) Their PHL-RDU mkt. share was 62.82%

Now they've announced BNA and CMH, so let's look at those numbers for 3Q 2005.

CMH - 405 miles

Now: 211 daily pax
$289.27 avg. fare
US mkt. share 77.49%

BNA - 675 miles

Now: 381 daily pax
$169.26 avg. fare
US mkt. share 57.99%
WN mkt. share 31.87% (and that's with no current nonstop service)

So what's next for WN at PHL? As far as low hanging fruit goes, my top three picks would be BUF, ALB and ORF. None of the three are major hubs for any other airlines and all are markets where US has a greater than 80% maket share and charge accordingly.

ALB - 212 miles

Now: 51 daily pax
$337.52 avg. fare
US mkt. share 91.08%

BUF - 279 miles

Now: 90 daily pax
$340.28 avg. fare
US mkt. share 80.38%

ORF - 211 miles

Now: 109 daily pax
$311.18 avg. fare
US mkt. share 87.40%

The next best bets (IMO) would be

CLT - 447 miles(I know WN doesn't yet serve CLT, but it's often mentioned as a possible new city.)

Now: 352 daily pax
$336.77 avg. fare
US mkt. share 75.52%
FL mkt. share 11.82% (and FL's avg. fare was 166.37 or 37.2 cents/mie.) WN could probably drop the avg. fare down to $100 - $110.

CLE - 363 miles

Now: 244 daily pax
$253.91 avg. fare
CO mkt. share 47.34%
US mkt. share 43.06%

Although there are two airlines competing in this market both charge high fares and between the two of them control 90% of the market. PHL-RDU is only 27 miles shorter yet the avg. fare in that mkt. is $76.19 and has 1500 daily passengers. A possibility for later down the road, maybe.

DTW - 453 miles

Now: 699 daily pax
$228.15 avg. fare
NW mkt. share 55.86%
US mkt. share 29.39%

Market controlled by two legacies, both charging high prices and together controlling 85% of the market. WN could bring the average fare down 50% to $114.09 which would still mean an average yield of 25.2 cents/mile well above their actual costs.

I wouldn't hold my breath on this one, though. For whatever reasons, WN doesn't seem to do much expanding out of DTW.

SDF - 576 miles
Now: 699 daily pax
$228.15 avg. fare
US mkt. share 55.38%
WN mkt. share 29.61% (No nonstops currently offered)

Another "I wouldn't hold my breath but maybe later" route they could consider.

It will be interesting to watch WN continue to grow at PHL and elsewhere.

LoneStarMike

 
airwave
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 9:34 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 22):
Thanks Airwave. I think I'll use that one as a title... heh...

No problem, lol. Course, not everything I put out is a gem, haha.  Yeah sure

Airwave  eyebrow 
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
 
flyinryan99
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 9:36 am

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 27):
I wouldn't hold my breath on this one, though. For whatever reasons, WN doesn't seem to do much expanding out of DTW.

I'm kind of surprised by this because they have 6 gates all to themselves up there in their own little wing which I thought was very nice.
 
steeler83
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:04 am

Will WN be adding anymore gates anytime soon at PHL? (I guess this is a silly question... I think that as soon as DL and AF relocate they'll pick up those gates on the E concourse...) but how about after that...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
airwave
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:13 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 30):
Will WN be adding anymore gates anytime soon at PHL? (I guess this is a silly question... I think that as soon as DL and AF relocate they'll pick up those gates on the E concourse...) but how about after that...

Well, eventually they're supposed to get the Terminal E hammerhead and all...but that depends on if the construction goes ahead, which depends on what the heck everybody decides to do with that airport...

Take a look at these two sites for some info:

Runway 17-35 Extension
Capacity Enhancement Program

Airwave  eyebrow 
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STT757
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:12 am

I think the next WN city from PHL should be Buffalo, here's my list of priorities I think WN should have from PHL:

1.) Buffalo (3-4 daily)
2.) Albany (2-3 daily)
3.) New Orleans (2 daily)
4.) Denver (2-3 daily)
5.) St.Louis (3-4 daily)
6.) Kansas City (3 daily)
7.) San Diego (1 daily)
8.) Seattle (1 daily)
9.) Indianapolis (3 daily)
10. Detroit (4 daily)
11.) Cleveland (4 daily)
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
BHMNONREV
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:34 am

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 15):
3 gates and currently 21 flights? That's one of the lower gate utilization rates in the WN system.

That title may belong to STL. WN has 12 gates all to themselves in the East Terminal, with "only" 65 or so flights per day...
 
atrude777
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:41 am

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 33):
That title may belong to STL. WN has 12 gates all to themselves in the East Terminal, with "only" 65 or so flights per day...

and really only 7 of the gates are used. E-2 and E-4 as well as E-20, E-22 and E-24 are not used.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
N702ML
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:23 pm

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 33):
3 gates and currently 21 flights? That's one of the lower gate utilization rates in the WN system.

CLE is pretty sad, too  Sad

Not sure of the exact number (I could count them in the timetable, but I am kinda lazy right now). But there is something like 22 or 23 out of 4 gates.

Always wish they would add some nonstops to Florida from there.
The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of Southwest Airlines.
 
steeler83
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:44 pm

Airwave, I did take a look at those links, and thanks for posting them. How long is the runway supposed to be after it is extended? I am sure that it said in the FEIS in one of those links, but by the time I get to that, this thread will already by rendered as old news...

Also, I hope those damn NIMBY's just shut up; it's a double edged sword. If no expansion is done, they'll get pissed either way... Besides, in the FEIS, the "no-build" altrenative was not selected here, but the NIMBY thing is actually regarding the rest of the PHL development... That is a very rapidly growing airport and it already is having a problem keeping up. Those frigging NIMBYs better learn about the needs of the expanded facilities there, and learn about planning in general and realize why it is so important. Apparently, they think it's all about them, well they're not the only ones in the county...

Furthermore, if they are complaining so much about the airport, then why in the hell are they still living there if they hate it so much? Is someone telling them they should live there???
[Edited 2006-04-20 06:49:07]

[Edited 2006-04-20 06:50:15]
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mah584jr
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:53 pm

Quoting Wncmh (Reply 23):
I wish they add CMH-LAX probably not because of DL.

I didn't think DL had a large prescence in CMH. I think you meant to say CVG.

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 21):
Must be a route map error, I don't even see it scheduled as Saturday only.

I was looking at the route map before, and not all of those routes are non-stop. I think they are looking at connecting flights as part of their route map too.

Quoting Airwave (Reply 20):
That they are, but I wonder if PHL will ever reach and/or surpass BWI to become another key city for WN.

I definitely see this being WN's plan. WN is serving PHL and PHL is most definitely serving WN. It's hard to believe it hasn't been even 2 years since PHL service started! They've added flights at a rate of about one flight every 12 days in PHL since the beginning.
 
stirling
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 2:02 pm

Quoting Mah584jr (Reply 37):
I didn't think DL had a large prescence in CMH. I think you meant to say CVG.

No, he meant CMH.
DL flys the CMH-LAX route nonstop with a 738.
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iowaman
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 2:34 pm

Quoting Mah584jr (Reply 37):
I was looking at the route map before, and not all of those routes are non-stop. I think they are looking at connecting flights as part of their route map too.

I was looking at PDX non-stop, not all service, and it shows PDX-TPA non-stop, however I can not find it as bookable n/s on any days this summer.
 
HPRamper
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 2:39 pm

Whoa, that would be a loooong 737 ride. I thought WN wasn't too high on transcons?
 
joeman
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:00 pm

Quoting N702ML (Reply 35):
CLE is pretty sad, too

Not sure of the exact number (I could count them in the timetable, but I am kinda lazy right now). But there is something like 22 or 23 out of 4 gates.

Always wish they would add some nonstops to Florida from there.

Currently, the only direct flight competition to CO is a handful of USA3000 flights that don't operate near daily.
 
iowaman
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:01 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 40):
Whoa, that would be a loooong 737 ride. I thought WN wasn't too high on transcons?

Wouldn't be all that bad, there is longer. WN in the past few years have added many transcons. For example WN operates LAS-PVD/BUF/MHT/ISP/BWI/TPA and soon MCO n/s. The longest WN flight is PHL-OAK.
 
LoneStarMike
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:41 pm

>>.Will WN be adding anymore gates anytime soon at PH<<<

And while we're at it, didn't I read somewhere that most of the gates at PHL had leases that were coming up for renewal this summer, or am I confusing PHL with some other airport?

LoneStarMike

 
vegasplanes
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:14 pm

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 33):
Quoting Iowaman (Reply 15):
3 gates and currently 21 flights? That's one of the lower gate utilization rates in the WN system.

That title may belong to STL. WN has 12 gates all to themselves in the East Terminal, with "only" 65 or so flights per day...

From DTW with 3 gates:

8 x MDW
3 x BNA
3 x STL
2 x PHX
1 x LAS Saturday only

I count 16 daily flights from 3 gates, 5.33 flights per gate. One would think that two would be sufficient, save a few bucks on lease expense.
 
captainstorck
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:15 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 40):
Whoa, that would be a loooong 737 ride.

I have done KEF-LUX in an Icelandair 737-408 - that makes for a long flight
 
FCYTravis
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:47 pm

Right now US CMH-PHL:
3x E70
2x CRJ
2x ERJ
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
airwave
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:57 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 36):
How long is the runway supposed to be after it is extended?

From the Project EIS, "Alternative 1 [the Preferred Alternative] will extend Runway 17-35 to the north by 640 feet and to the south by 400 feet from its existing length of 5,460 feet to a proposed total length of 6,500 feet. (...) Alternative 2 would have extended Runway 17-35 to the north by 1,140 feet and to the south by 400 feet from its existing length of 5,460 feet to a proposed total length of 7,000 feet. A new Runway Safety Area would have extended 500 feet beyond the extension to the north. An Engineered Material Arresting System (EMAS), collapsible concrete blocks that stop an overrunning aircraft in a shorter distance than a standard unpaved safety area, would have been placed in this Runway Safety Area."

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 36):
That is a very rapidly growing airport and it already is having a problem keeping up. Those frigging NIMBYs better learn about the needs of the expanded facilities there, and learn about planning in general and realize why it is so important. Apparently, they think it's all about them, well they're not the only ones in the county...

Yeah, but they're the most vocal, lol. And with legitimate reason, of course--but it does hold things up.

I just wish there was a way to expand out into the Delaware River, but I don't think that that has much possibility. PHL is really boxed in and I don't think that either of the proposed projects (Rwy 17-35 Extention, Capacity Enhancement) would be of long-term benefit, especially at this stage. The "other" option would be a completely new airport--but that's a pipedream because there's no land and no way for that to come off. PHL will shortly be strangled by its own successes.

Quoting Mah584jr (Reply 37):
I definitely see this being WN's plan. They've added flights at a rate of about one flight every 12 days in PHL since the beginning.

Really?  Wow! I wonder when they'll stop? Lol.

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ScottB
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:02 am

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 43):
And while we're at it, didn't I read somewhere that most of the gates at PHL had leases that were coming up for renewal this summer, or am I confusing PHL with some other airport?

In June of this year; see http://www.phl.org/pdf/acp_040311.pdf for the details. I would not be surprised to see US move a significant number of Express flights from Terminal F to Terminals A, B and C in order to maintain compliance with gate usage requirements; they're using roughly 45 gates for only 153 daily mainline departures. But I think the PHL gate reshuffle is being facilitated by the lease expirations.

I'm guessing that the slow progress on the E hammerhead was driven by the uncertainty over US's future; it didn't make sense to spend money on building more gates with a significant possibility of 30+ gates had US Airways been unable to reorganize successfully. The city was also able to accommodate WN's growth by providing four gates in Terminal D returned by US & UA.
 
PHLBOS
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RE: WN Starts Nonstop PHL To BNA And CMH

Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:27 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 48):
I would not be surprised to see US move a significant number of Express flights from Terminal F to Terminals A, B and C in order to maintain compliance with gate usage requirements; they're using roughly 45 gates for only 153 daily mainline departures. But I think the PHL gate reshuffle is being facilitated by the lease expirations.

First & foremost, I don't believe that anyone else will be moving to Terminal F unless the airline is an all-express regional carrier. To my knowledge, only 4 of F's gates can actually handle something slightly larger than RJs (E170 to 717) . So USx' RJ & turboprop operations will most likely stay at F. No other airline will want to split up their mainline/regional operations at PHL.

Most of the known/previously discussed gate re-assignments deal with several E tenants moving over to A-East, thereby allowing WN to consolidate their operations at one terminal while the Hammerhead expansion is being constructed. YX has since moved; AF & DL will move sometime later this year. As far as I know, NW is staying put.

Nonetheless, I believe most of the gate shuffling taking place will mostly involve other carriers besides US.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 48):
But I think the PHL gate reshuffle is being facilitated by the lease expirations.

The gate lease expirations are the 30-year ones, which only impact the airlines that were in existence back then.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 48):
I'm guessing that the slow progress on the E hammerhead was driven by the uncertainty over US's future; it didn't make sense to spend money on building more gates with a significant possibility of 30+ gates had US Airways been unable to reorganize successfully.

As a whole, the Hammerhead E project also included the expansion/consolidation of the Terminal D & E ticketing facilities. Work on the latter-mentioned will commence first (some of the utility relocation work may have already started); the gate expansion (which is now a 'go' again) will take place later.
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