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PanAm_DC10
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Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:00 pm

They just filed their quarterly report and this caught my eye;

"We are confident about our future growth opportunities as evidenced by our agreement with Boeing today to exercise 79 options for delivery of Boeing 737-700 aircraft in 2007 through 2012, bringing our current firm orders to 140. We also have 116 options, with delivery positions in 2008 through 2012, and 54 purchase rights for delivery through December 31, 2014."

Is this right? 79 extra orders for the frames?

Source Southwest Filing with SEC

Regards, PanAm_DC10

[EDIT - Spelling]

[Edited 2006-04-20 13:02:27]
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:05 pm

SW must have big faith considering the rising fuel costs etc. 79 more orders, 140 current orders, 116 options and 54 purchase rights......yikes. Even worst then EK
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pavlin
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:08 pm

Don't know. But when they receive all those 737NG they will be no doubt the biggest carrier in terms of passengers carried
 
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:17 pm

Quoting Pavlin (Reply 2):
But when they receive all those 737NG they will be no doubt the biggest carrier in terms of passengers carried

Southwest would need a few more than just 79 additional 73Gs to become the biggest airline in terms of pax carried  Wink . Unless of course you mean only domestic US, in case WN already carries the most people, IIRC.
 
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:21 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 1):
SW must have big faith considering the rising fuel costs etc

About fuel cost's. They are hedged as follows;

Over 70% Hedged for remainder of 2006 at $36/Barrel
Over 60% Hedged for 2007 at $39/Barrel
Oover 35% Hedged for 2008 at $38/Barrel
About 30% Hedged for 2009 at $39/Barrel

This is an option exercise for the 79 frames and the information can be found at the following link;

http://www.southwest.com

It's pleasing to see the U.S. market is turning around with the amount of orders starting to take place. AS, CO & WN now all making solid orders over the past year. With more to come before year end from others.

Regards, PanAm_DC10
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RichardPrice
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:22 pm

79! Good order for Boeing if so, congrats!
 
MaartenV
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:24 pm

Will this be one of their last big orders for the 737NG before the 737RS is launched, or can we expect them to excersise all their options?
Its all about supply and demand...
 
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:41 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
We are confident about our future growth opportunities as evidenced by our agreement with Boeing today to exercise 79 options for delivery of Boeing 737-700 aircraft in 2007 through 2012

Congratulations to Boeing and Southwest. Are all these options going for expantion, or will some of these orders see older -300 and -500 go?
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:46 pm

Good news! I imagine that those will gradually replace the Classics. The oldest 300 is now over 20 years old, it should leave the fleet soon with the rest to be phased out in the years to come. Lately there has been lots of discussions about how much longer American will keep the Super 80's and what those would eventually be replaced with, the same applies with the 737-300's at Southwest. They are about the same age as AA's Super 80's. Don't forget that Southwest was an early operator of the 300 Series.

Quoting MaartenV (Reply 6):
Will this be one of their last big orders for the 737NG before the 737RS is launched, or can we expect them to excersise all their options?

It depends on the market. If Southwest needs addtional aircraft, should they open new routes and/or older aircraft are withdrawn from service sooner than expected, they yes they will excercise some if not all their options. But if they don't need to order any more aircraft before the end of the decade then they'll wait till the 737RS is launched, which is what American is waiting for.

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harrisair
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:53 pm

Does SW have tugs in these colors anywhere else? Or is this just a SEA thing??
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:04 pm

Awesome news for an American company actually buying American aircraft without taking advantage of American bankruptcy laws..

So far, according to the corporate site, Boeing has 116 737 family orders for 2006 WITHOUT the new 79 aircraft order.

I looked through the site and could not determine how Airbus is doing on A320 family orders this calendar year - can anyone confirm?

Thanks!
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:09 pm

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 7):
Are all these options going for expantion, or will some of these orders see older -300 and -500 go?

I too, would like to know that. It would be good if we could find out some more on their plans. IIRC, they still have 25 x 735s but I'm not too sure how old they are.

Quoting American 767 (Reply 8):
Lately there has been lots of discussions about how much longer American will keep the Super 80's and what those would eventually be replaced with,

They have already started to store, indefinately, 27 x MD-80 commencing April 3rd though to July 1st. With no plans, publicly announced, to replace them.

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 4):
It's pleasing to see the U.S. market is turning around with the amount of orders starting to take place.

In the interests of being equitable, I should have mentioned the US A350 order too.

WN usually just exercise their options in small increments. Year to date Boeing list only 4 737NG as UFO so a couple of frames may already be accounted for in the 79 mentioned today. As for the 54 Purchase Rights listed from 2012 through 2014, could these be convertable to the 737RS if it fits the proposed EIS?

Regards, PanAm_DC10
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:35 pm

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 3):

Southwest would need a few more than just 79 additional 73Gs to become the biggest airline in terms of pax carried Wink . Unless of course you mean only domestic US, in case WN already carries the most people, IIRC.

Why do you have to complicate things?
Southwest will de facto be the airline that carried the most passengers. They are now second or third
 
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:41 pm

Wow!!!



That's a big order!
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:46 pm

I haven't seen any press released from Boeing yet, but it's still pretty early here.

I don't think you'll see any real press releases on the 737RS until the engineers are fully confident that they have met all of the performance requirements, whatever that might be. With the 737NG lining humming at an astounding rate, it will be hard for Boeing to quit the line in the very near term. Keep in mind, each 737 sold is pure profit.
 
starrion
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:13 pm

WOW!

79 orders for WN plus another 80 for China. BCA could be over 300 737 orders by May, if everybody gets their paperwork in.


Not bad for a 40 year old design  Wink
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:25 pm

This is just the news AA wanted to hear...........

N O T.
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:28 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 4):
Over 70% Hedged for remainder of 2006 at $36/Barrel
Over 60% Hedged for 2007 at $39/Barrel
Oover 35% Hedged for 2008 at $38/Barrel
About 30% Hedged for 2009 at $39/Barrel

So I guess they have a little bit of a cusion until 2009 by looking at this? or would they have to consider buying more fuel after 2007? I guess as soon as we see a valley here in the fuel cost trend they might want to consider hedging more fuel; I don't think it's going to get any cheaper unless they can make a jet engine that operates on some alternate fuel source, which I don't think will happen anytime soon despite the technology. I wonder if engineers have started experimenting with this or even looked into it as well?
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:31 pm

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 7):
Are all these options going for expantion, or will some of these orders see older -300 and -500 go?

The first -300s arrived in the fall of 1984, which means they'll turn 22 this year. I'd expect to see some retirements starting in 2007, but that's just a guess...

Quoting HarrisAir (Reply 9):
Does SW have tugs in these colors anywhere else? Or is this just a SEA thing??

Not in that particular scheme (as far as I know) but many stations have their pushback tugs painted in other schemes, usually the colors of a local college/pro sports team...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
planespotting
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:53 pm

In the next 5 years or so, how many a/c do they expect to receive from Boeing and how many a/c are they expected to retire?

Anyone know what the net aircraft gain is gonna be?
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:20 am

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 14):
I haven't seen any press released from Boeing yet, but it's still pretty early here.

Not to forget that Boeing usually let their customer make the order announcement when it suits the customer. We may have to wait a little before we see confirmation from Boeing.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 17):
So I guess they have a little bit of a cusion until 2009 by looking at this? or would they have to consider buying more fuel after 2007?

That would be a fair statement sir. Here is what their CEO Gary Kelly had to say about fuel costs throuhg to that date. It's from an interview on Bloomberg TV so I must adhere to copyright and use fair use excerpt only;

`We have years of protection in place on Hedging, Fuel hedging maybe US$30 million more than plan, Seventy-five percent of Southwest's first quarter fuel purchases were hedged at a price of $36 a barrel of oil, down from 85 percent at $26 a barrel a year earlier. Crude-oil prices averaged $63.48 a barrel in the 2006 quarter.

[ END Fair use excerpt - http://www.bloomberg.com ]

He also cited higher fare increases and ``Strong load factor and revenue trends have continued in April, and customer bookings for the remainder of 2006 are strong,'' which are offsetting higher fuel prices. That statement can be found in their release.

One thing is for sure, when looking at WNs Fuel Hedging policies of the past several years it would be fair to say that the have been amongst the most astute airlines when it comes to managing this risk. Given this is their biggest variable cost, this is no mean feat which they have overcome.

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 14):
I don't think you'll see any real press releases on the 737RS until the engineers are fully confident that they have met all of the performance requirements, whatever that might be.

I agree, but WN seem to be limiting 73G deliveries to no later than 2012, far more knowledgeable members than I have stated that WN have pushed Boeing for the 737RS and with the 53 Purchase Options from 2012 thru 2014 I was merely thinking out lound as to whether this could be an indicator as to the time horizon as to when we can expect the 737RS to become reality.

Regards, PanAm_DC10
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:30 am

I assume if this order is true it's for more -700s?

Would WN ever need/order the 800/900ER?
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:32 am

It would seem WN needs their own 737 production line at the Boeing factory.
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:47 am

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 4):
About fuel cost's. They are hedged as follows;

Over 70% Hedged for remainder of 2006 at $36/Barrel
Over 60% Hedged for 2007 at $39/Barrel
Oover 35% Hedged for 2008 at $38/Barrel
About 30% Hedged for 2009 at $39/Barrel

One thing I'm not sure most people understand about WN's hedging is that they aren't actually hedged for Jet-A. They're hedged for heating oil, which usually priced about the same.
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:47 am

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 21):
I assume if this order is true it's for more -700s?

It says so in the article  Wink .

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 21):
Would WN ever need/order the 800/900ER?

They could theorethically do with a larger plane on some routes, but it would add another subfleet, which is not something WN wants. When all your planes have the same number of seats, it is a bit easier to schedule them. Long-term, WN will probably go all-73G and remove the 733s. Of course, depending on when the 737RS will come, for which WN will be a launch customer, guaranteed.
 
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:52 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 1):
SW must have big faith considering the rising fuel costs etc. 79 more orders, 140 current orders, 116 options and 54 purchase rights......yikes. Even worst then EK

Not by a long shot. Southwest can use these planes in a thousand more markets then a A380. EK's A380s alone are 50x555 seats = 27,750 seats versus 26,280 seats for all of the pending 737 orders. Nevermind the 777 and probably 380 orders.

EK's business plane is suicidal.
 
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:01 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 24):
It says so in the article

Thanks, still recovering here from last night.
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:09 am

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 25):
EK's business plane is suicidal.

It's different from WN's, not necessarily "suicidal". Considering their strong and healthy growth from a tiny ME airline to a global player with almost 100 planes, they must have had the right plan so far...


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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:22 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 23):
One thing I'm not sure most people understand about WN's hedging is that they aren't actually hedged for Jet-A.

Jet fuel cannot be hedged in the US because it is not traded as a commodity here. There might be some foreign exchanges that handle fuel, but it is not a big business. Most US carriers that have hedges are based on crude or heating oil. As mentioned it is close enough of a proxy.

What some people really do not seem to understand is that the hedges are just like taking an option on pork belly futures and hoping for a strong demand for bacon. When WN closes their option, straddle or whatever, on the hedge position, they would probably get it in cash or in another future just as you or I would. Hedging is a side bet in the opposite direction of a critical commodity for your company. If oil prices went down, they would loose money on the future but get it back in lower cost fuel supplies. In the present case, they are cashing in on the options and applying it to the bottom line. One of the reasons that WN is hedged far more than other airlines is that they have by far the strongest balance sheet. The other carriers, even before 9/11 had high debt loads so the cost of placing an option would have been high, so only a huge shift in prices would make it worthwhile.
 
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:47 am

Good for WN. But I hope I don't hear Herb complaining about overcapacity any time soon.
 
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:00 am

Press release for the engine order:

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news...=conews&tkr=BA:US&sid=avx77buTXpko

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 30):
Good for WN. But I hope I don't hear Herb complaining about overcapacity any time soon.

They are just tooo damn smart to do that. They've got goals and ambitions. They have only touch the tip of the iceberg. This airline has so much potential as many airports would love to have them onboard.

We can complain all we want about how lousy they can sometimes be but you know what they envied by many other airlines for their sounds business cases.
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:13 am

Quoting Brick (Reply 32):
That's amazing how you got in a Bush/Big Oil slam in a thread that is about Southwest Airlines.

Actually, I had a good laugh... Once in awhile its needed here. Thanks Socalfive!
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socalfive
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:29 am

Quoting Brick (Reply 32):
That's amazing how you got in a Bush/Big Oil slam in a thread that is about Southwest Airlines ordering more 737's. It's posts like your's that make this the "Un-Civil Aviation" forum. You should keep these comments to yourself or go argue with the other kids in Non-Av

I would agree IF the context of the discussion didn't encompass the financial strength of WN and the advantages the fuel hedging have had to their bottom line, consequent growth and subsequent need for more aircraft. I'm not a 'sheep', so I have plenty to say about the goings-on in Washington right now and tend to editorialize my personal opinions a bit, (refer to the first amendment while it still exists) point is, overall the post was well within the context of the thread. Look beyond the political points of view and you might learn something from it skippy.
 
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:42 am

The -500's are going to be around for a while. They are the perfect aircraft for intra-Texas routes. Until the Feds get around to fixing the TSA (which I don't foresee), shorter flights that used to be WN's bread and butter will be low-yield, but still potentially profitable with the right aircraft. At the moment that is the -500. This order might, however, spell the end for some of the older -300's. Their first -300 is actually older than their last -200 they retired over a year ago. I know many FA's would be happy to see them go.
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:50 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 30):
Good for WN. But I hope I don't hear Herb complaining about overcapacity any time soon.

I don't think that will be happening, WN's fleet is stretched thin already, and they got plenty of places even domestically yet to fly to.
 
SNATH
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:55 am

It's on the Boeing's WWW site now:

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2006/q2/060420b_nr.html

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ckfred
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:18 am

Where do they plan to fly all of these planes? So many of their current destinations are nearing maximum capacity, such as LAS and MDW.
 
steeler83
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:27 am

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 20):
He also cited higher fare increases and ``Strong load factor and revenue trends have continued in April, and customer bookings for the remainder of 2006 are strong,'' which are offsetting higher fuel prices.

Then would it be fair to say that hedging fuel at a higher cost would not be too terribly devistating if at all for WN, given the case that you posted?
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:28 am

Quoting We're Nuts (Reply 35):
The -500's are going to be around for a while. They are the perfect aircraft for intra-Texas routes

The -500s are not scheduled just to Texas as the -200 were at the end of their lives.

If they are focused anywhere, it would be California and Florida

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 38):
So many of their current destinations are nearing maximum capacity, such as LAS and MDW.

They've also opened DEN, PHL, PIT, RSW, and now IAD within the span of 1-2 years. They have pleanty of room for growth.
 
lehpron
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Fri Apr 21, 2006 6:29 am

Where are all these planes going to go -- I ask not interested in routes, as much as worrying about space at airports. Sometimes I feel it isn't necessary to have so many airplanes -- supposed market be damned, that there are always other solutions but these are chosen in the carrier's favor, not pax or surrounding communities.  Yeah sure
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Fri Apr 21, 2006 6:45 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 40):
The -500s are not scheduled just to Texas as the -200 were at the end of their lives.

If they are focused anywhere, it would be California and Florida

OAK sees a lot of 735's daily.
 
steeler83
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Fri Apr 21, 2006 6:46 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 40):
They've also opened DEN, PHL, PIT, RSW, and now IAD within the span of 1-2 years. They have pleanty of room for growth.

They're probably going to take their time expanding PIT. O&D is growing considerably there, but it's nothing like the O&D market of other WN cities like PHL... Nonetheless, PIT expansion, WN or not, would be nice. DEN, on the other hand, should grow like a weed for WN.
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Fri Apr 21, 2006 7:00 am

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 41):
Where are all these planes going to go

Maybe ROC (NY) will get some.

 crossfingers 

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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Fri Apr 21, 2006 7:38 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 24):
Of course, depending on when the 737RS will come, for which WN will be a launch customer, guaranteed.

Since the 737RS will be an entirely new plane, why would it be guaranteed that Southwest would be a launch customer? I assume the 737NG and 737RS won't have the commonality the 737Classics and the 737NG had. I bet WN will use that as an opportunity to play Boeing against Airbus and see how they can get the best price for the best type of plane for their needs, they obviously are one of the smarter airlines out there.

Also, how many 737Classics (-300 and -500) do they still have? Is it possible that they will be able to retire all of the Classics and go to an all 737-700 fleet before the new Boeing and Airbus plane hits the market?
 
coa747
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Fri Apr 21, 2006 7:38 am

I don't see the 300's or 500's going anywhere anytime soon. Southwest will hold on to them and get their money's worth like they did out of the 200's. Why would you take a perfectly good airplane you own free and clear out of operation. Let the classics keep making the airline money and replace them in due time like the 200's. New planes are great but also costly on the front end.
 
hawk44
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Fri Apr 21, 2006 7:47 am

I would assume all of these new planes will have winglets?

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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Fri Apr 21, 2006 7:48 am

Quoting Coa747 (Reply 44):
Why would you take a perfectly good airplane you own free and clear out of operation.

High fuel prices...
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Fri Apr 21, 2006 7:54 am

Quoting Coa747 (Reply 44):
I don't see the 300's or 500's going anywhere anytime soon.

They could begin leaving as early as next year, certainly a number will be leaving before 2010...

Quoting Coa747 (Reply 44):
Why would you take a perfectly good airplane you own free and clear out of operation.

Because the fuel costs for the 733 and 735 are now significantly exposed as WN steps down off their hedge prices. The 73G is much more economical and flexible aircraft, and WN can't wait until the 737RS to begin replacing the oldest 733.

Quoting Coa747 (Reply 44):
Let the classics keep making the airline money and replace them in due time like the 200's.

What you don't appreciate is that some of the 733 are approaching their maximum number of cycles within the next few years.

Quoting Coa747 (Reply 44):
New planes are great but also costly on the front end.

The NW DC9 strategy is functional until fuel prices start doing backflips. At which point, inefficent but "paid for" aircraft become more a liability.
 
steeler83
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Fri Apr 21, 2006 7:58 am

Quoting Coa747 (Reply 44):
I don't see the 300's or 500's going anywhere anytime soon. Southwest will hold on to them and get their money's worth like they did out of the 200's. Why would you take a perfectly good airplane you own free and clear out of operation. Let the classics keep making the airline money and replace them in due time like the 200's. New planes are great but also costly on the front end.



Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 46):
High fuel prices...

I believe that BoeingBus has a point here. The 733 was a very fuel efficient plane for its time due to the larger engine than that on the 732 and 731 from the 70s. Even more modern technology has allowed us to come up with an even more fuel efficient CFM56 engine to be used on the NG 737s. While the older 733 and 735 planes could only go as far as say 2,000 miles, the 73Gs and other 737NG planes have a range 50 - 60% more than that of the 733s. Given that WN only needs its planes to travel 2,000 miles or so, this would mean less fuel consumption. This is just my assumption from all of the other posts and links regarding this; I am probably inaccurate with this...
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ScottB
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RE: Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs

Fri Apr 21, 2006 7:58 am

Quoting United787 (Reply 43):
I assume the 737NG and 737RS won't have the commonality the 737Classics and the 737NG had.

That's not a terribly good assumption; while perhaps the 737RS/Y1 might have a completely new design, it's certainly possible that Boeing could design it to have a common type rating with the existing 737's. This would allow for minimal pilot training costs for a customer like Southwest ot Continental.

Quoting United787 (Reply 43):
Also, how many 737Classics (-300 and -500) do they still have? Is it possible that they will be able to retire all of the Classics and go to an all 737-700 fleet before the new Boeing and Airbus plane hits the market?

WN has 219 Classic 737's (194 -300's and 25 -500's). If the Y1 comes to market in 2020, it's possible that the Classic fleet could be gone by then, but Southwest was still taking delivery of -300's up until the very first -700 was delivered to then in late 1997; some of the Classics are thus still under 10 years old.

I would be shocked beyond all belief to not see Southwest as the first launch customer for the 737RS; the Boeing 737 and Southwest are synonymous.