su
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United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:57 pm

Today I came across to an add in Moscow Times from United Airlines recruiting Sales Managers, Sales Executive and Reservations Agents.

Does this mean United is opening a base/office here of even better – planning to fly to Moscow? With very strong presence of LH/OS/LX and other *A carriers I have never heard of United being interested or its plans involving Moscow.

I know for example AA and NH don’t fly to Moscow but have representative offices in here. I wonder if it will be the same for UA for now and with future plans to fly into Moscow.

If this is true it is a great news for all of us a.nuters in Moscow and United.

If they start flying to Moscow will they fly from IAD/ORD or SFO? Currently only SU and DL offer direct flights to Moscow from NYC, ATL, LAX and IAD (twice a week). I would think UA would have done great on ORD-MOW rout.
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UAL777UK
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United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:12 pm

Maybe this is the big announcement that is apparently going to happen on the 24th April. I must say I would really be surprised if this was it, but hey anything is possible!
 
zvezda
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United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:04 pm

I don't expect to see UA flying to Moscow anytime soon. UA are interested in selling to the Russian market via codeshare services. Expect to see UA codeshare on LH flights to SVO and other Russian cities.
 
DAL767400ER
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United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:32 pm

I was under the impression that all available frequencies US-Russia for US carriers have already been assigned? (14 weekly slots for DL and 7 for CO)
 
airevents
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United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:05 pm

United has not, like Delta or Continental, expanded a lot internationally, maybe this would also boost their business, opening a couple of longhaul routes instead of some money-loosing domestic sectors. Moscow, if possible, would for sure be a cash cow for them.
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UAL777UK
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:05 pm

Quoting Airevents (Reply 4):
United has not, like Delta or Continental, expanded a lot internationally, maybe this would also boost their business, opening a couple of longhaul routes instead of some money-loosing domestic sectors. Moscow, if possible, would for sure be a cash cow for them.

Agreed, now, would we be thinking ORD or IAD to Moscow....my preference would be ORD.
 
hoya
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:14 pm

With UA's long-haul aircraft shortage, opening a new route would mean cutting another international frequency. So what would be cut? ORD-EZE and the 2nd IAD-GRU have been made only seasonal (winter) due to the needed lift for Europe over the summer. Also, what aircraft could possibly be used? Does a 763ER have the legs to fly ORD-Moscow profitably all year long?
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FA4UA
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Sat Apr 22, 2006 3:19 am

just because there's a sales office in the city doesn't mean we'll be flying there in the near term...

FA4UA
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deltairlines
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Sat Apr 22, 2006 3:35 am

Also, could it be for a call center? Reservations agents to handle the phones and the management making sure everything is running smoothly? I do know that UA outsources a vast majority (so much so that many 1Ks on FlyerTalk complain about it even) of its res calls overseas.

Jeff
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Sat Apr 22, 2006 3:37 am

This is very interesting! As mentioned above, having a sales office in Moscow, doesn't necessarily mean that they will start service to MOW. But for some reason I do feel that MOW is a future destination for UA. I'm sure that if they will serve ORD-MOW they will do great. There is a lot of demand for that route. SU seems to be doing ok with their 2 weekly IAD flights, and there doesn't seem to be much more demand for it. So judging by that ORD will be a winner. Just my $0.02.

Aeroflot777
 
DCAYOW
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Sat Apr 22, 2006 3:59 am

IAD-SVO would be logical choice here. IAD is UA's European incubator, all new routes to Europe start from IAD then migrate to ORD. There is sizable US government traffic going to SVO and it is a route that can be easily accomplished with a B763.

Before SU's entry into SkyTeam I could not fathom a worse insult for Metropolitan Washington than to have Delta flying daily Atlanta - Moscow before a daily Washington - Moscow existed.

Also, with SU's entry into SkyTeam means that DL will code-share on SU's SVO-IAD service. This means many of the US govt pax using a UA-LH, UA-SK, UA-OS combo could have theoretically migrated to the "DL" IAD-SVO service. A UA nonstop makes UA competitive again.

[Edited 2006-04-21 21:01:55]
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UN_B732
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Sat Apr 22, 2006 6:57 am

ORD-MOW will do excellently on a 767.

I'm hoping that's what happens.

This doesn't seem like an outsourcing to Russia situation. I am very excited about this.
What now?
 
levg79
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:01 am

Quoting FA4UA (Reply 7):
just because there's a sales office in the city doesn't mean we'll be flying there in the near term...

I hate to sound ignorant, but can anyone tell me the logic behind having a sales office in a country that is not served by the airline?

Leo.
A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
 
CRGsFuture
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:40 am

Levg direct contact with the costomer and the product, instead of getting the runaround from other agents at allianced airlines.

-JD

[Edited 2006-04-22 01:58:57]
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ba757gla
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:43 am

is there a market for us - russia traffic
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:57 am

Quoting Ba757gla (Reply 14):
is there a market for us - russia traffic

Yes, a very big one. Apart from all of us Russians trying to go back and visit our country, Moscow is becoming a big center economically. Every time I travel US-Russia, I can't help but notice the outrageous amount of US businessmen travelling to Russia for various business reasons. I'm quite surprised that other US airlines haven't begun service to Russia already. Delta's Moscow route is thriving, and bringing in a lot of money. In fact it's so popular, Delta added a second daily flight from ATL. There is great potential for US-Russia travel, and expect to see other US airlines adding Moscow to their destinations in the near future.

Aeroflot777
 
levg79
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:04 am

Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 13):
Levg direct contact with the costomer and the product,

And what does that do? I'm sorry but I still don't get it. It's like advertising the product that will not be delivered anyway. I'm really sorry if I sound ignorant, but I still don't get it.

If anyone is able to explain to me why would UA need a customer center in Russia if it doesn't intend to fly there gets, that person is getting added to my RU list.  wink 

Leo.
A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
 
CRGsFuture
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:09 am

That's easy, remember on airline like UA their prices are lower than on a codeshare like LH. LH reps would be aiming to convince you to take all flights on LH even if you want to transfer on to UA at FRA. By having a customer representative center they are giving you the best deal for the airline you prefer instead of pressuring you to take a codeshare partner.
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levg79
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:13 am

Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 17):
on airline like UA their prices are lower than on a codeshare like LH



Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 17):
By having a customer representative center they are giving you the best deal for the airline you prefer instead of pressuring you to take a codeshare partner.

But they'd have to use a codeshare because UA wouldn't fly to Russia, at least in the forseeable future.

Leo.
A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
 
CRGsFuture
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:16 am

On one sector of your flight not the whole trip however. So about 1-2 hours on LH and then UA across the pond.
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levg79
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:22 am

Yeah, but that means they'd have to advertise heavily in Russia. Because what I think is that aside from 9/11, most people in Russia haven't heard much about UA so they're not likely to call UA when shopping for tickets.

Leo.
A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
 
OlegShv
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:49 am

I hope UA will open a route or two to Moscow. This would be awesome!

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 20):
Yeah, but that means they'd have to advertise heavily in Russia. Because what I think is that aside from 9/11, most people in Russia haven't heard much about UA so they're not likely to call UA when shopping for tickets.

Leo.

Well, Same argument could be applied to DL or most non-Russian based airlines. There were that many people who new DL in Russia. I remember times in the 1990s when DL was running TV ads in Moscow.  Smile

Regards,

Oleg.
 
levg79
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:14 am

Quoting OlegShv (Reply 21):
Well, Same argument could be applied to DL or most non-Russian based airlines. There were that many people who new DL in Russia. I remember times in the 1990s when DL was running TV ads in Moscow.

Yeah, but DL operated to Russia already, UA does not and doesn't have any plans either.

Leo.
A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:08 pm

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 22):
Yeah, but DL operated to Russia already, UA does not and doesn't have any plans either.

How do you know that? What if it is in their plans? Then they obviously do need advertizing...

Aeroflot777
 
SFO2SVO
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:45 pm

This can be actually in response to Aeroflot joining Skyteam.

Also, could this be something cargo-related?
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UN_B732
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Sat Apr 22, 2006 2:08 pm

IAD-LED? Couldn't be daily though, but coectios might make it worth it.
That would be a surpriser/shocker if you ask me.

btw: QANTAS has a sales office i Belgrade, Serbia & Monteegro. I love tehse oddball sales offices.
I might have seen a billboard in downtown Moscow a few years ago advertising AA"s sales office. Were they planning on starting service at one point?
What now?
 
mymiles2go
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Sat Apr 22, 2006 2:39 pm

Not to deflate everyone's route ballons - but quite simply - United doesn't have the aircraft to do the route short of dropping something else.
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Sat Apr 22, 2006 3:44 pm

Quoting Mymiles2go (Reply 26):
Not to deflate everyone's route ballons - but quite simply - United doesn't have the aircraft to do the route short of dropping something else.



Quoting Hoya (Reply 6):
With UA's long-haul aircraft shortage, opening a new route would mean cutting another international frequency.

Or UA could tighten down the routing on the widebody fleet, i.e. not fly as many domestic widebody flights. UA has some room to wiggle with the widebody fleet, but the biggest loser for UA here would be domestic freight lift between hub/gateways with the tighten up. If U.S. to MOW were to happen on UA (and I'd call it an outside chance at best...) IAD-SVO would be the obvious choice. SU only serves it once a week with a stop-over at JFK each way. UA has much better facilities at IAD for the compacted European arrivals than ORD.
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rwsea
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Sat Apr 22, 2006 4:04 pm

Quoting Ba757gla (Reply 14):
is there a market for us - russia traffic

DL seems to do well with their twice daily flights (and service from both DL gateways - ATL and JFK).

I think UA could be successful on the route, flying IAD-SVO.
 
greenjet
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:49 pm

Quoting FA4UA (Reply 7):
just because there's a sales office in the city doesn't mean we'll be flying there in the near term...

Very true. Air Zimbabwe, China Southern, El Al, JAL, Korean, Malaysia Airlines, Qantas and United all have offices in Dublin but none fly to Ireland.
 
OlegShv
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:05 pm

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 28):
DL seems to do well with their twice daily flights (and service from both DL gateways - ATL and JFK).
I think UA could be successful on the route, flying IAD-SVO.

Agreed. I flew those flights and they were always packed.
SU flights to US cities are doing well too.

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 22):
Yeah, but DL operated to Russia already, UA does not and doesn't have any plans either.

Leo.

How do you know of their plans? I admit we are all speculating here though.

Quoting SFO2SVO (Reply 24):
Also, could this be something cargo-related?

I doubt that.

Quoting Greenjet (Reply 29):
Very true. Air Zimbabwe, China Southern, El Al, JAL, Korean, Malaysia Airlines, Qantas and United all have offices in Dublin but none fly to Ireland.

Don't forget that Moscow is a big city - around 12 million people live there. This is a big market. Not that I'm trying to offend you Greenjet, but this number alone is three times the population of entire Ireland.

Regards,

Oleg.
 
Established02
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:07 pm

Quoting Mymiles2go (Reply 26):
United doesn't have the aircraft to do the route short of dropping something else.

Perhaps UA still has some long haul aircraft available on a desert parking lot.


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hoya
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:52 am

Quoting Established02 (Reply 31):
Perhaps UA still has some long haul aircraft available on a desert parking lot.

Any UA-livery widebodies still in the dessert are lease returns. Only way they'll get back in the fleet is if UA decides to lease them out again.
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USPIT10L
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:55 am

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 27):
Or UA could tighten down the routing on the widebody fleet, i.e. not fly as many domestic widebody flights. UA has some room to wiggle with the widebody fleet, but the biggest loser for UA here would be domestic freight lift between hub/gateways with the tighten up. If U.S. to MOW were to happen on UA (and I'd call it an outside chance at best...) IAD-SVO would be the obvious choice. SU only serves it once a week with a stop-over at JFK each way. UA has much better facilities at IAD for the compacted European arrivals than ORD.

UA has already done that. There simply are not enough widebodies in the UA fleet to start something like this soon. UA is probably simply opening a sales office in Moscow. Nothing more.
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UN_B732
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:17 am

I would expect ORD-SVO over IAD-SVO (if any service), but we shall see. Both could be successful, but I see stronger O&D out of Chicago, in addition to the same connection potential (pretty much, JFK and DL , combined with ATL and DL eat up connection potential on the east coast)
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What now?
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:21 am

Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 34):
I would expect ORD-SVO over IAD-SVO (if any service), but we shall see. Both could be successful, but I see stronger O&D out of Chicago, in addition to the same connection potential (pretty much, JFK and DL , combined with ATL and DL eat up connection potential on the east coast)

I agree, ORD has more potential. As I said SU is doing 2 weekly flights to Moscow from IAD, and they don't seem to need anymore. I just think there will be more traffic from Chicago...

Aeroflot777
 
UN_B732
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:53 am

btw Aeroflot777, do you know why SU hasn't restarted ORD? Is it because of not enough 767s?
What now?
 
positiverate
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:06 pm

Quoting Established02 (Reply 31):
Perhaps UA still has some long haul aircraft available on a desert parking lot.

I don't think a 744 is right sized for the SVO market. Seems like the market lies somewhere between a 767 and 777 in size.
 
TANS
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:54 am

Levg79, let me try to explain why United would open a sales office and customer service center in Moscow.

Firstly, many Russians (and especially Muscovites) have seen their living standards increase greatly in the last few years. Obviously, there are many businessmen that travel, but the number of people looking for relaxation has also increased greatly.

If you have a sales office in the city, you can contact (and convince) travel agencies directly to offer your flights to these people. They usually won’t have a clue (and won’t care) what they are flying with. Therefore, if some good PR is done, a few free flights given to the travel agencies managers and other goodies thrown in, the travel agencies will convince their customers that UA is the best choice, even if it means a stop-over somewhere.

Yes, I know the travel agency should look for the best deal, but that is a utopist idea, especially in Russia.

Added to that, if your flights are cheaper or similarly priced as the competition you can lure in even more customers that will fly UA solely for that reason. Apart from this, presentation events can be organized, parties thrown, sponsorships given out to strengthen brand awareness and subsequent choice.

It doesn’t really matter if you don’t fly to the city, but as long as you can make people develop a bond to your airline or cleverly coerce them into flying you, the money invested will pay off.

To give an example, JAL has an office in Lima, Peru. They’ve never flown there and probably never will. But the Japanese community in the country is so large, that it’s worth it for them to spend the money on the office and convince the customers to change planes and company once they get to the States (most connections from Peru to Japan are made through there).
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:58 am

Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 36):
btw Aeroflot777, do you know why SU hasn't restarted ORD? Is it because of not enough 767s?

Well many factors are involved. One of them you have stated. SU aircraft are used extensively, and are hardly at one place at any time of the day, especially the 763ERs. I have read in a magazine that this is because of the size of SVO2. There is simply not enough room to park the planes even if they wanted to leave them for some time. So SU used the opportunity and constructed their timetable to match the needs of the airport as well. For now they don't have any available aircraft to do any more concrete expansion. Even though they had only 2 777, those birds really helped them out a lot by flying to SEA, SFO, China, and occasionally Europe. Now they are not there to lift some of the weight.
Another thing is that Aeroflot downsized its North American destinations on purpose. Miami, San Francisco, Seattle, Chicago - all have a huge Russian population that easily filled up a daily flight, however, SU preferred to stop flying there and transport its passengers using their agreements with American carriers. For instance, even though SU stopped flying to SFO years ago, they still kept their office here open, and booked people usually on Alaska to fly down to LAX, and catch the SU flight from there. I know a SU employee here in SFO, that has helped my family out with tix over the last years, but now SU decided to close their SFO office as well. So she ended up loosing her job.
Bottom line is that Aeroflot prefers to have a limited amount of destination in the US for now, and ferry pax using other airlines to the SU ports - LAX, JFK, IAD. It's simple more convenient then having to run another set of flights, that use up a/c for more than 24 hours at a time.
As the order for more a/c come along, I'm positive that SU will start opening up new cities, its only a matter of time. But now, especially being a member of SkyTeam, they are not so worried about the situation.

Aeroflot777
 
positiverate
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:38 am

Quoting TANS (Reply 38):
Levg79, let me try to explain why United would open a sales office and customer service center in Moscow.

Firstly, many Russians (and especially Muscovites) have seen their living standards increase greatly in the last few years. Obviously, there are many businessmen that travel, but the number of people looking for relaxation has also increased greatly.

If you have a sales office in the city, you can contact (and convince) travel agencies directly to offer your flights to these people. They usually won’t have a clue (and won’t care) what they are flying with. Therefore, if some good PR is done, a few free flights given to the travel agencies managers and other goodies thrown in, the travel agencies will convince their customers that UA is the best choice, even if it means a stop-over somewhere.

Yes, I know the travel agency should look for the best deal, but that is a utopist idea, especially in Russia.

Added to that, if your flights are cheaper or similarly priced as the competition you can lure in even more customers that will fly UA solely for that reason. Apart from this, presentation events can be organized, parties thrown, sponsorships given out to strengthen brand awareness and subsequent choice.

It doesn’t really matter if you don’t fly to the city, but as long as you can make people develop a bond to your airline or cleverly coerce them into flying you, the money invested will pay off.

To give an example, JAL has an office in Lima, Peru. They’ve never flown there and probably never will. But the Japanese community in the country is so large, that it’s worth it for them to spend the money on the office and convince the customers to change planes and company once they get to the States (most connections from Peru to Japan are made through there).

OR, it could be that so many Russians flying UA coach will be overcome with nostalgia and feel like they're on the old Soviet Aeroflot.

Sorry, couldn't resist.
 
TANS
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:05 am

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 40):
OR, it could be that so many Russians flying UA coach will be overcome with nostalgia and feel like they're on the old Soviet Aeroflot.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I wonder how I didn't think of that  Smile
 
estick
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RE: United Is Opening A Base In Moscow, Russia?

Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:31 am

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 40):
OR, it could be that so many Russians flying UA coach will be overcome with nostalgia and feel like they're on the old Soviet Aeroflot.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

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