amirs
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Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Sun Apr 23, 2006 4:56 am

With the exclusive deal that was signed between GE and Boeing, a few airlines are reluctant to order the 773ER since they have RR powered 772 in their fleets. I was just wondering if it would be worthwhile for these airlines to order 773 (non-ER) with Trent 800 or PW 4098's. I am sure these planes still have a long range.
An airline like LY, It would probably put any 773 on the NYC, LHR, MIA, HKG, and BKK route.
Does the non-ER have the range for HKG, NYC YYZ nonstop from TLV? Will it be done efficiently and economically? It looks like it has the range for all except MIA.
The range for a 773 is 5729 nm.
TLV - HKG on LY is about 4435nm
TLV - BKK on LY is about 4918 nm
TLV - NYC is about 4934nm
TLV - YZZ is about 5030 nm
TLV - MIA is about 5738 nm
These are all 10 hours + flights ( this is what I added in the edit)
What airlines use their nonER on long haul flights?

[Edited 2006-04-22 22:20:14]
 
B742
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Sun Apr 23, 2006 5:02 am

Well EK use their 773's on routes such as: (or have used)
DXB-LHR 3420 mi
DXB-SIN 3633 mi
SIN-SYD 3907 mi

Rob!  wave 
 
Avianca
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Sun Apr 23, 2006 5:10 am

Quoting Amirs (Thread starter):
The range for a 773 is 5729 nm.
TLV - HKG on LY is about 4435nm
TLV - BKK on LY is about 4918 nm
TLV - NYC is about 4934nm
TLV - YZZ is about 5030 nm
TLV - MIA is about 5738 nm

Amirs, your distances for HKG and BKK are not correct.

TLV (32°00'41"N 34°53'12"E) HKG (22°18'32"N 113°54'53"E) 4179 nm
TLV (32°00'41"N 34°53'12"E) BKK (13°54'45"N 100°36'24"E) 3741 nm
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
karan69
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Sun Apr 23, 2006 5:12 am

CX use their 773s on HKG-DXB---non-stop 7+ hours flight
SQ use their 773s on SIN-DXB again 7 hrs non-stop

Quoting B742 (Reply 1):
Well EK use their 773's on routes such as: (or have used)
DXB-LHR 3420 mi
DXB-SIN 3633 mi
SIN-SYD 3907 mi

Rob, one more is DXB-BKK/KUL
 
amirs
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Sun Apr 23, 2006 5:17 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 2):
Amirs, your distances for HKG and BKK are not correct.

TLV (32°00'41"N 34°53'12"E) HKG (22°18'32"N 113°54'53"E) 4179 nm
TLV (32°00'41"N 34°53'12"E) BKK (13°54'45"N 100°36'24"E) 3741 nm

Thats if they flew direct over arab counties, LY needs to fly up to Turkey and then proceed to HKG and to BKK they fly south down to ETH - Sharm - Djibouti and then BKK.
 
Avianca
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Sun Apr 23, 2006 5:22 am

Quoting Amirs (Reply 4):
Thats if they flew direct over arab counties, LY needs to fly up to Turkey and then proceed to HKG and to BKK they fly south down to ETH - Sharm - Djibouti and then BKK.

a ok, thanks for the infor!

regards
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NZ107
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:02 am

SQ flys the AKL-SIN using a 773 direct in the Southern Summer, distance 4540nm.
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
ha763
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:20 am

KE used to use their 773s ICN-HNL every Sunday, which is 3977nm. They also have used them to LAX, probably through NRT, which is 4737nm. If KE did use the 733 ICN-LAX non-stop, it is 5209nm. And, KE is the only 773 operator with PW4098s.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:44 am

Quoting Ha763 (Reply 7):
If KE did use the 733 ICN-LAX non-stop, it is 5209nm. And, KE is the only 773 operator with PW4098s.

I believe KE did use the 773A nonstop on ICN-LAX. However doing so gave them severe weight restrictions because of the fuel guzzling PW4098s, but I believe this could change, because somebody mentioned that KE is converting the PW4098s to regular PW4090s.
 
RedChili
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:28 am

The photo database contains several pictures of TG 773s in Europe. I assume that they made nonstop flights.

Athens and Geneva:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Elliott Kefalas
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Charles Falk

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FlyDeltaJets
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:37 am

I thought that all 773's are ER. I didn't know that there was a difference. Is the a visible way of telling.
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ikramerica
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:05 am

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 10):
I thought that all 773's are ER. I didn't know that there was a difference. Is the a visible way of telling.

wingtips and different engines. and there are some aero tweaks on other parts of the wing you'd have to be an expert to see, as well as a modified articulating main landing gear.

the 773 used to be offered only in a range that fell between the 772A and the 772ER (closer to the 772A). Now the 773ER has a slightly longer range than the 772ER. though it was designed to have a slightly shorter range, it exceeded design criteria by a great deal by EIS, and even by more after 1 and 2 years post EIS.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
UAL747
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:06 am

Yeah, the 773ER's have raked wingtips and the biggest set of engines you've ever seen in your life. The standard 777-300 has been used by KE on ICN-LAX. That's 5209 nautical miles. Boeing lists the 777-300 range at 5,995 nautical miles.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/777family/pf/pf_300product.html

UAL

[Edited 2006-04-23 03:14:00]
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
N1120A
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:36 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 8):
I believe KE did use the 773A nonstop on ICN-LAX. However doing so gave them severe weight restrictions because of the fuel guzzling PW4098s, but I believe this could change, because somebody mentioned that KE is converting the PW4098s to regular PW4090s

They weren't taking severe weight restrictions. The route was still well within the range of even PW4098 powered 773s

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 12):
he standard 777-300 has been used by KE on ICN-LAX. That's 5209 nautical miles.

They were not used on ICN-LAX. They were used on ICN-NRT-LAX
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777fan
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:46 pm

I've flown UA's ORD-NRT route on a 772 (PW engines, IIRC):

ORD (41°58'43"N 87°54'17"W) NRT (35°45'53"N 140°23'11"E) 6274 mi
DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
 
N1120A
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:11 pm

Quoting 777fan (Reply 14):
I've flown UA's ORD-NRT route on a 772 (PW engines, IIRC):

That is a 772ER, which has much longer range than the 773A. In UA's crippled configuration, they can do about 7000nm still air
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
ikramerica
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:16 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
That is a 772ER, which has much longer range than the 773A.

Exactly. 773A is about 1/3 of the way between a 772A and 772ER range. And of course engine choice, age of aircraft, etc. mitigates that. That breakdown is for the 777s as they are offered in 2006.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
N1120A
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:21 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 16):
Exactly. 773A is about 1/3 of the way between a 772A and 772ER range. And of course engine choice, age of aircraft, etc. mitigates that. That breakdown is for the 777s as they are offered in 2006.

Actually, it is less than 1/3rd. The 773A only has 785nm more range than the 772A, while the 772ER has almost 2000nm more range than the 773A. Also, the KE birds have range about halfway between the 772A and 773A with GE or RR engines.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
fkruiver
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:46 pm

How about the -200's....KLM does AMS-MNL non-stop....
 
trex8
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:27 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
In UA's crippled configuration

why are they crippled? I have done ORD-PEK several times with a packed plane and its several hundred miles further than NRT

Quoting Fkruiver (Reply 18):
How about the -200's....KLM does AMS-MNL non-stop....

thats even shorter than the UA ORD - NRT or PEK flights.
 
airxliban
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:38 pm

Quoting Amirs (Thread starter):
PW 4098's.

The PW4098 has proven to be a dog and only KE has ordered 773s with that engine. I forgot exactly what happened, but in the development of the PW4098 P&W had some problems meeting emissions requirements IIRC and in the end the changes that they made to meet those requirements ended up increasing the engine's fuel consumption significantly to the point where it was no where near competitive with the Trent.

So PW was only able to keep KE as a customer and are paying them for fuel penalties.

Interesting to note though that the KE 773s with PW4098s (which is all of them) have the highest thrust to weight ratio of any commercial aircraft.
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
jrosa
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Mon Apr 24, 2006 12:17 am

Quoting Amirs (Thread starter):
With the exclusive deal that was signed between GE and Boeing

Sorry for my ignorance, but how was this deal entered into by Boeing and GE?

Thanks,

Jose Carlos
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Mon Apr 24, 2006 1:04 am

Quoting Fkruiver (Reply 18):
How about the -200's....KLM does AMS-MNL non-stop....

These are 200ER, one of the longest range airliner in the world. They are not pushed to the limit on that precise route...
When I doubt... go running!
 
FlyDeltaJets
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Mon Apr 24, 2006 1:13 am

Thanks guys. I probably didn't know because I haven't seen a non ER version I have only seen AF, NH and KE's 773.
The only valid opinions are those based in facts
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:59 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 6):
SQ flys the AKL-SIN using a 773 direct in the Southern Summer, distance 4540nm.

Not scheduled. But they do use them in place of the 772ER's to AKL and CHC which is 10.5 hours.

KE have used them to AKL but again as SUBS for 772ER's AKL-ICN is about 12.5 hours, not sure on miles.
 
airxliban
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:19 am

Quoting Jrosa (Reply 21):
Sorry for my ignorance, but how was this deal entered into by Boeing and GE?

Just that the GE-90 will be the sole powerplant option on the 777-200LR and the 777-300ER.
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:35 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
Actually, it is less than 1/3rd.

You french and your arguing for no reason.  Wink

I was agreeing with you, and you went and corrected me anyway, and with incorrect information...

First, it's 745nm, not 785nm, and second, (5955nm-5210nm)/(7730nm-5210nm)=0.30 which is, as I stated, ABOUT 1/3rd. I did clearly write ABOUT 1/3. It's closer to a third than 1/4, anyway.

And I said that this was for current generation 777s, not necessarily the ones that any airline has in their fleet. No doubt KE's 773As don't have a 5955nm range.

Have a nice day.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
N1120A
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:47 am

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 19):
why are they crippled? I have done ORD-PEK several times with a packed plane and its several hundred miles further than NRT

Because United chose to stick with PW engines, they were only able to certify their 772ERs to 648,000 pounds, as opposed to 656,000 pounds. That is 8000 pounds of fuel/cargo/pax/bags they can't carry. That is the reason they weren't able to continue the AKL route. UA's 772ERs have less range than their 744s. BTW, ORD-PEK is operated with a 744, not a 772ER.
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planemanofnz
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Mon Apr 24, 2006 12:21 pm

Quoting RedChili (Reply 9):
The photo database contains several pictures of TG 773s in Europe

I flew on a TG 773 AKL-SYD-BKK back in 2001. I think EK would have the longest flight with a 773 WITH stops. It would probably be AKL-BNE-SIN-DXB using the same flight-number. Not sure on non-stops though.
 
UAL747
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Mon Apr 24, 2006 12:46 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 27):
BTW, ORD-PEK is operated with a 744, not a 772ER.

That may be the case now, but I flew PEK-ORD in a 777, 2001.

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:57 pm

I know SQ does/did SIN - IST with a 773A - thats got to be up there I would guess.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
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LTU932
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:01 pm

Quoting AirxLiban (Reply 20):
The PW4098 has proven to be a dog

Didn't the PW4098 actually become an embarrassment for Boeing? And also, please somebody confirm if KE is having their PW4098s converted to PW4090 or am I wrong with that?
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:03 pm

Is JAL and ANA (the other PW-powered 773A users IIRC) using the 4090, or the 4098?
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
cricket
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:03 pm

Given that the 773 was only ordered by Asian carriers - the only non-South East Asia/East Asian carrier operating them is EK the majority of them are used on short-medium haul intra-Asia flights. I guess they end up doing a envelope pushing flight occasionally, but that wasn't their design intention.
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N1120A
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:24 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 31):
Didn't the PW4098 actually become an embarrassment for Boeing?

It meant that UA had to take an inferior 777 to their competition and LAN dropped the 777 altogether.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 31):
And also, please somebody confirm if KE is having their PW4098s converted to PW4090 or am I wrong with that?

It is not a simple conversion. The engines have more than just subtle differences.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
cricket
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:31 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 34):
It is not a simple conversion. The engines have more than just subtle differences.

I was led to believe that the Pratt screw-up on the 4098's more than messed up their chances on the 777LR family and the 787.
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CX Flyboy
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:47 pm

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 3):
CX use their 773s on HKG-DXB---non-stop 7+ hours flight

We do not fly non-stop to DXB with the 773s. They go HKG-BKK-BOM-DXB. We fly 772s and A333s non-stop.

Our 773s are in fact downrated to a MTOW of 263tonnes, as their main job is to fly around Asia with large pax numbers. I just flew MNL-HKG with over 400 people in one and over 25tonnes of freight.
 
aviationfreak
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:18 pm

I've seen a KE773 at AKL not too long ago. Don't know which route they're flying though.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 6):
SQ flys the AKL-SIN using a 773 direct in the Southern Summer, distance 4540nm

SQ comes with a daily 744 to AKL and 4 times per week with a 772. SQ is one of our customers and I cannot recall having loaded a 773 last summer.

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 28):
I flew on a TG 773 AKL-SYD-BKK back in 2001. I think EK would have the longest flight with a 773 WITH stops. It would probably be AKL-BNE-SIN-DXB using the same flight-number. Not sure on non-stops though.

That's EK432/433. EK is using the 773ER DBX-BKK-SYD-AKL and thats EK418/419 I believe. I always love to see that one coming in with its huge engines!

Sander
I love both Airbus and Boeing as much as I love aviation!
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:26 am

Quoting Aviationfreak (Reply 37):
've seen a KE773 at AKL not too long ago. Don't know which route they're flying though.

ICN-AKL non stop! Thats a long flight!

Quoting Aviationfreak (Reply 37):
SQ comes with a daily 744 to AKL and 4 times per week with a 772. SQ is one of our customers and I cannot recall having loaded a 773 last summer.

The 773 did sub a couple of times for the 772ER! Maybe you weren't working that day. The 772ER flight is 5x weekly and will go daily at some stage when SQ have enough aircraft.
 
N1120A
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:29 am

Quoting Cricket (Reply 35):
I was led to believe that the Pratt screw-up on the 4098's more than messed up their chances on the 777LR family and the 787.

Yep. If they couldn't scale up to 98K, how in the world were they going to do 115K. Their GTF technology does have a good shot on the 737RS/A320NG
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
MarkC
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RE: Longest 777-300 NON- ER Nonstop Flight

Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:57 am

LTU932, I think Korean only have 1 aircraft left with 4098's. And I believe only 9 engines were ever made. There were two recently donated to museums. I'm guessing there will be more of those.

ChrisBA, only Korea ordered the 98's. JAL has the 77's and the 90's, ANA I know have 90's, and may have 77's.