flamedude707
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SFO-India Nonstop

Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:23 am

When will we see nonstop flights from sfo to india? The indian population in the bay area is only rising and as moe business shifts there, the demand will only increase. Also, what airlines and aircrafts would fly the route? Is it too long of a flight?
Time you enjoy wasting, is not wasted.
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:19 am

If any airline would start the service, it would have to be Air India. I just don't see any other airline, with the exception of United, being interested of doing non-stop. Right now, pax have quite a few choices of getting to India using connecting flights in Asia and Europe. Air France and Delta come to mind for easy connection through Europe, so that's not that big of a problem.

Aeroflot777
 
klmcedric
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:34 am

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 1):
Air France and Delta come to mind for easy connection through Europe, so that's not that big of a problem.

A lot more easy connections can be made truogh Europe, strange that only
AF & DL come to your mind! How about LH,BA,KL,NW...

Anyway at 6700nm this flight would be shorter then SQ's SIN-LAX,SIN-EWR,
and besides from 772LR and A345 even the 772ER should be able to operate on this leg!

Would it be too long? This flight would take 14-15hrs, I think that's managable
and worth considering next to much longer connection-flight times!
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:47 am

Quoting KLMcedric (Reply 2):
A lot more easy connections can be made truogh Europe, strange that only
AF & DL come to your mind! How about LH,BA,KL,NW...


I just know quite a few people that fly to India on a regular basis and they fly AF and DL thats why they just spontaneously popped into my head.  Smile Of course you are right, many airlines offer connections in Europe.

Aeroflot777
 
kaitak744
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:56 am

Well, JFK, ORD, and LAX would probably become non-stop first. AI might for the time being just send 777-300ERs to IAH and SFO.
 
American777
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:57 am

9W has ordered long range Boeing aircraft and when they take delivery of their Boeing 777-300/ER's they might launch service from BOM to SFO.

So AI & UA are not the only ones that are able to launch services to SFO from India!!!
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:02 am

Quoting American777 (Reply 5):
9W has ordered long range Boeing aircraft and when they take delivery of their Boeing 777-300/ER's they might launch service from BOM to SFO.

American777, sorry but who is 9W. I'm not familiar with that code, and it's not coming up when putting the cursor over it...

Aeroflot777
 
desiguy2447
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:14 am

9W is Jet Airways. The only problem with AI is that the aircrafts Boeing 747's are so old, and one never knows when a tire is going to burst, or something in the interior is going to fall off. (this might sound funny, but this is Air India) Till Air India gets there new Boeing aircrafts not much will change.
 
Concorde001
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:22 am

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 6):

Jet Airways, India's leading private airline. The airline has a large domestic route network, and has only recently started to fly DEL-LHR and BOM-LHR.


 
kaitak744
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:27 am

Quoting Concorde001 (Reply 8):
Jet Airways, India's leading private airline. The airline has a large domestic route network, and has only recently started to fly DEL-LHR and BOM-LHR.

They also go to SIN, KUL, Kathmandu, and Colombo.

http://www.airlineroutemaps.com/West_Asia/Jet_Airways.shtml

[Edited 2006-04-24 01:27:57]
 
jacobin777
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:12 am

Quoting KLMcedric (Reply 2):

A lot more easy connections can be made truogh Europe, strange that only
AF & DL come to your mind! How about LH,BA,KL,NW...

BA is certainly easy from SFO/LAX.....also, many can fly CO SFO-EWR-DEL or AA SFO/SJC/LAX-ORD-DEL...

that being said, I've been mentioning ad nauseam that AA should try to fly to India from the west coast, especially NoCal...given its huge Indian population in Sunnyvale, Fremont, San Jose, etc....not to mention, the silicon valley connection

I think the problem with AA would however, their 777's can't go the distance..AI won't have a problem with their -200LR's..maybe AA can use some 5th-freedom rights...

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 4):
Well, JFK, ORD, and LAX would probably become non-stop first. AI might for the time being just send 777-300ERs to IAH and SFO.

EWR as well as ORD serve DEL nonstop.......AI serves LAX via FRA..

as much as its good to have nonstop service from West Coast to India, I think intr-india connections need to be much improved, not to mention, airports and infratructure..
"Up the Irons!"
 
9W77W
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:25 am

Quoting KLMcedric (Reply 2):
Anyway at 6700nm this flight would be shorter then SQ's SIN-LAX,SIN-EWR,

As per Great Circle Mapper, DEL-SFO = 7478 & BOM-SFO 8397 http://216.147.18.102/dist/.

Regards
 
shane
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:29 am

could any of United's current equipment do that flight nonstop?
 
American777
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:53 am

Quoting Shane (Reply 12):

It depends which city in India you want to fly to. If you fly from SFO to BOM you will only be able to serve that route with the Boeing 777.

If you want to fly from SFO to DEL you can serve that route with either the Boeing 777 or the Boeing 747-400.
 
jacobin777
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:02 am

Quoting Shane (Reply 12):
could any of United's current equipment do that flight nonstop?

UA's 747's can probably do ORD-DEL, but that's about it..their 777's don't have the MTOW to go the distance without being weight-restricted.....even from ORD

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 10):
BA is certainly easy from SFO/LAX...

I mean SFO-India with BA...but once again, not a direct flight....
"Up the Irons!"
 
mandargb
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:06 am

"BA is certainly easy from SFO/LAX.....also, many can fly CO SFO-EWR-DEL or AA SFO/SJC/LAX-ORD-DEL"

Actually BA is absolutely not good for SFO - BOM via LHR. (Unless you like a 20+ hours layover in LHR) (SFO- to BOM) (On the way back the halt is I think 3 hours or so which is good.)

Who will fly it.
Boeing did give a demo to AI folks of this non-stop routes back in first week of september of 2005. So keep guessing. (It was 777-200LR I think. please correct me on the model number.)
 
stealth777
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:14 am

actually I am amazed that SFO-DEL is longer than the other pairs of ORD/EWR -DEL per the great circle mapper. I would have assumed that SFO would be closer than the other two but I was wrong.

From To Distance
SFO (37°37'08"N 122°22'30"W) DEL (28°33'59"N 77°06'11"E) 6697 nm
ORD (41°58'43"N 87°54'17"W) DEL (28°33'59"N 77°06'11"E) 6503 nm
EWR (40°41'33"N 74°10'07"W) DEL (28°33'59"N 77°06'11"E) 6364 nm
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:35 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 10):
as much as its good to have nonstop service from West Coast to India, I think intr-india connections need to be much improved, not to mention, airports and infratructure..

What's one got to do with the other? Why should India-SFO direct flights start only after domestic connections and infrastructure improve  Confused
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:38 am

Quoting Desiguy2447 (Reply 7):
The only problem with AI is that the aircrafts Boeing 747's are so old, and one never knows when a tire is going to burst, or something in the interior is going to fall off. (this might sound funny, but this is Air India) Till Air India gets there new Boeing aircrafts not much will change.

Sorry, it doesn't sound funny at all....it sounds biased....!!!

AI had a few incidents of tyre burst at LAX and BOM....but it's not a situation of "no one knows when...." the problem with the 744's is that they do not have the range to fly India - SFO non-stop...nothing to do with their age or condition....  sarcastic 
 
jacobin777
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:59 am

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 17):
What's one got to do with the other? Why should India-SFO direct flights start only after domestic connections and infrastructure improve

er, I didn't say it did..... Wink

Quoting Mandargb (Reply 15):
"BA is certainly easy from SFO/LAX.....also, many can fly CO SFO-EWR-DEL or AA SFO/SJC/LAX-ORD-DEL"

Actually BA is absolutely not good for SFO - BOM via LHR. (Unless you like a 20+ hours layover in LHR) (SFO- to BOM) (On the way back the halt is I think 3 hours or so which is good.)

the connection time between flights is only 4 hours, and there is a terminal change, so that will take up about 2 hours right there....

the only downside is lots of sleeping on the plane...but that isn't all too bad of a route when one thinks about it....
"Up the Irons!"
 
ctang
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:27 am

I know for a fact that SQ has a large share of the indians travelling to india. They fly SQ1 via HKG.
 
COEWR787
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Mon Apr 24, 2006 1:17 pm

Quoting 9W77W (Reply 11):
As per Great Circle Mapper, DEL-SFO = 7478 & BOM-SFO 8397 http://216.147.18.102/dist/.

Only fly in the ointment is that that route flies right over Tibet. So the actual route that can be flown will have to deviate considerably to avoid Tibet and will be longer.

Even the EWR - SIN flight, when it flies the polar route, deviates East over Chengdu and Kunming from the most direct route in order to avoid Tibet. Tibet is too high for aircrafts to be able to come down to 7000' in the stipulated time in case of an accidental cabin depressurization.
 
deaphen
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Mon Apr 24, 2006 1:21 pm

Quoting Ctang (Reply 20):
I know for a fact that SQ has a large share of the indians travelling to india. They fly SQ1 via HKG.

ypu we do... its rather convinient to fly east wards over the pacific. especially if you going to the west coast. SQ is a good option but an even better optiion is CX. It works out to be the shortest connection to SFO. DEL-HKG is about 4:20 (hh:mm) and HKG-SFO is only 11:00 while going and 13:00 while coming back. Mainly because of the easterly jet winds over the pacific.

This is compared to SQ which has great service but is much longer.. DEL - SIN is 5:45 then SIN to Seoul is about 6:30-7:00 hrs. Then Seoul to SFO is another 11 hours or so. Its similar with their other flights out of Tokyo and Hongkong.

Hence, CX does well.
I want every single airport and airplane in India to be on A.net!
 
ua777222
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Mon Apr 24, 2006 1:38 pm

Expect SFO to start a DEN-India route. Very easy from both SFO and ORD to get to and with non-stop service it's a nice fix-it to their current issues.

Matt
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
baw716
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Mon Apr 24, 2006 1:49 pm

For those of you who want SFO-India nonstop, then discuss it with the local Air India guy (yes there is one there), have him draft a proposal and see what transpires. SFO would love to have another international long haul carrier at the airport. The airport does a significant amount of marketing; between the airport and Air India, if the original poster really wants the service, then those are the people with whom to discuss the issue.

A dose of airline economic reality: For that flight to be successful, it has to be filled with high fare business traffic. Although the fares from SFO to India are pretty high, even in Economy.

The better mix would be a YVR-DEL or BOM nonstop; I believe (opinion not stating fact) that the YVR market is much larger than SFO, and the shorter distance (about 750 miles) makes it within the range of most existing long haul aircraft.

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
Nimish
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Mon Apr 24, 2006 3:08 pm

AI will hopefully launch this route once they have all their aircraft on board (another 3-5 years down the line)? The initial set of aircraft arriving are to replace existing capacity. However once they start receiving the LRs (and hopefully they learn from PKs problems on introducing the LRs), they should be able to launch non-stops. Now whether AI can get past it's obsession of BOM/DEL and milkruns, is a moot point. However, they will have the capability to launch non-stop BLR-SFO, HYD-SFO type flights. Even 3-4 frequencies per week would be a great start, to be increased to daily once they get additional aircraft, and the route proves itself. With the merger of AI/IC, hopefully the combined airline will be able to get sufficient (and well managed) domestic feed in India to these flights. And if AI ends up with *A, then they can get plenty of American domestic feed through UA.
Incredible India!
 
Superfly
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Mon Apr 24, 2006 3:39 pm

Has Air India consider ording any more 747-400s?
I'd love to see Air India 747s flying here to SFO.
Bring back the Concorde
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:35 pm

Quoting KLMcedric (Reply 2):
Anyway at 6700nm this flight would be shorter then SQ's SIN-LAX,SIN-EWR,
and besides from 772LR and A345 even the 772ER should be able to operate on this leg!

The world isn't that small.

Quoting American777 (Reply 13):
It depends which city in India you want to fly to. If you fly from SFO to BOM you will only be able to serve that route with the Boeing 777.

If you want to fly from SFO to DEL you can serve that route with either the Boeing 777 or the Boeing 747-400.

The distance from BOM to SFO is 7305nm, across the North Pole. At 410 knots average ground speed, that is just under 18 hours. The B-777-200ER/-200LR/-300ER, B-747-400/ER, A-340-500/-600/-600IGW, A-380-800 can all make that flight. That is assuming a 240 minute ETOPS for the B-777 models. No, the A-330 cannot fly this mission, because it is a 180/207 ETOPS minute airplane.

Of course the new B-787-800/-900 and A-350-800/-900 can also make this same mission, using 240 minutes ETOPS rules, when those new designs begin flying. The new B-747-800I can also fly this, but no ETOPS is needed.

Now, if you want to fly BOM to DFW, at 7642nm, that takes the B-777-200ER, and A-340-600/-600IGW out of the missions, because of required fuel reserves. That mission is just over 18.5 hours.
 
cricket
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:28 pm

AI gets their first 777-200LR early 2007 and the second a couple of months after that. Now the reason the LR was ordered (and AI has gone for the extra tanks option unlike PK) was to allow the carrier to operate West Coast/Texas (SFO, LAX and IAH or DFW) to India (DEL/BOM/BLR) non-stop.
Now the question is would you want to spend 16-17 hours in a plane - however the success of CO and AA's DEL services prove that there is a class of passeneger who don't mind paying a bit extra just to get from point A to B as fast as possible. And if AI's new planes come with nice seats and good IFE it might be a good reason to fly them.
9W is only getting 777-300ER's while these will be able to do DEL-ORD/EWR/JFK/BOS all easily, other points in India might need one-stoppers.
A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
 
Nimish
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:36 pm

Quoting Cricket (Reply 28):
9W is only getting 777-300ER's while these will be able to do DEL-ORD/EWR/JFK/BOS all easily, other points in India might need one-stoppers.

My personal opinion is that 9W will live to rue the day they decided that one-stops are the way to go. I've flown on the TG 345 LAX-BKK, and nothing beats not having to get down and go around security/boarding in between. While the one-stop route allows you to pick up additional traffic halfway, the real market is in India-US, and 9W will loose out to the non-stop operators in that market.

Maybe 9W will eventually pick up discarded 345s after all the current operators junk the plane and move to the 772LRs (as many on this board would like you to believe) Big grin
Incredible India!
 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:05 pm

Quoting UA777222 (Reply 23):
Expect SFO to start a DEN-India route. Very easy from both SFO and ORD to get to and with non-stop service it's a nice fix-it to their current issues.

There is no way UA is going to start DEN-India. Den is UA's 4th choice as an international gateway and it's local market is smaller than SFO, ORD, and IAD. Plus, I have to imagine that of all four cities, DEN probably has the smallest Indian population as well. There's nothing about DEN-India that makes more sense than the other three.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:26 am

I'm not sure how much of a market for the SFO to India route AI can get. Don't forget that BA, LH, SQ and VS have get you to India with only one flight change from SFO; indeed, BA and VS have a lot of Indian ex-pats flying between SFO and BOM/DEL because they can change flights at LHR to fly onto India.
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:43 am

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 31):
Don't forget that BA, LH, SQ and VS have get you to India with only one flight change from SFO; indeed, BA and VS have a lot of Indian ex-pats flying between SFO and BOM/DEL because they can change flights at LHR to fly onto India.

Well, if AI or 9W start flights to SFO, they will be either non-stop or one-stop flights (probably via Europe) and the pax won't have to change planes at all.....or spend 4-5 hours in transit at a Euro airport.....that would be better than what BA, LH or anyone else can offer.....
 
LAXDESI
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:03 am

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 32):
Well, if AI or 9W start flights to SFO, they will be either non-stop or one-stop flights (probably via Europe) and the pax won't have to change planes at all.....or spend 4-5 hours in transit at a Euro airport.....that would be better than what BA, LH or anyone else can offer.....

True. Many seniors that I know prefer the convinience of AI's one aircraft service on BOM/DEL-USA routes.
 
aseem
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Tue Apr 25, 2006 3:39 am

Quoting Cricket (Reply 28):
Now the question is would you want to spend 16-17 hours in a plane

I did AC's YYZ-DEL-YYZ 14hr non-stop and believe me towards the end it was a bit too much. Although I admit that SQ's executive economy must have been more generous than AC's coach class. I was longing to be put down back on Earth. On return one of the fellow passenger died one hour before landing due to lack of medical assistance. Good for those in a hurry or needing a connecting domestic flights in India. With direct flights to BLR/HYD/MAA from EU, one does not go for non-stop to DEL and then connect. But then, its my opinion.
One the side note. one of the reason AA and CO non-stop are so popular is because they are the least expensive. Anytime I do a search for YYZ-DEL, the least expensive comes out to be CO's via EWR.
rgds
VT-ASJ

[Edited 2006-04-24 20:41:00]
ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:03 am

Quoting Cricket (Reply 28):
Now the question is would you want to spend 16-17 hours in a plane

Personally, I've probably been on a couple of dozen 14+ hour flights in the past ten years, and your questions should be: "Would you want to spend 16-17 hours in a plane vs. two flights totaling 17 hours plus a two-hour connection?" Frankly, I'd rather go nonstop and get it over with - I save time and lessen the likelihood that I'll miss a connection or have a delayed flight enroute."

When I used to fly to South Africa on business in 2000-01, the nonstop from JFK to JNB was heaven at 14+ hours vs. the alternative of two shorter flights through Europe. The time savings was immense. Anytime I can save at least a couple of hours of enroute time, I take it.
 
UAL#1fan
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:44 am

Why United does not start service to India from ORD or SFO is beyond me. They could make it happen, and I'm sure they'd get plenty of demand for either route.

I realize they just got out of bankruptcy, they're strapped for international widebody aircraft, etc. But if there's any market that United should be serving right now, it's India, especially if they want to maintain their status as the premier U.S. airline to Asia.
United Air Lines -Mainliners Coast to Coast
 
blrsea
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:42 am

Kingfisher in talks with US carrier for �silicon� flights

Quote:
MUMBAI: India�s silicon valley will get closer to the real McCoy in San Francisco, if the UB group chief Vijay Mallya has his way. Kingfisher Airlines is in talks with a US-based airline for a strategic tie-up to start operations to India

Among the first city-pairs that the airline plans to connect will be Bangalore-San Francisco, sources said. US carriers are allowed to fly into India under the open skies policy between the two countries and Kingfisher is scouting for a suitable airline with a valid operating licence, they added.
...
The US based operator will fly the aircraft under the Kingfisher Airlines brand from US to India. However, this option will be exercised only if Kingfisher Airlines does not receive approval to fly from India to the US by then. While Indian carriers have to complete 5 years of operations to be able to fly on international routes, even a new foreign carrier can fly into India
...
 
roseflyer
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:32 am

Quoting American777 (Reply 13):
It depends which city in India you want to fly to. If you fly from SFO to BOM you will only be able to serve that route with the Boeing 777.

If you want to fly from SFO to DEL you can serve that route with either the Boeing 777 or the Boeing 747-400.

There seems to be a lot of argument on this. For comparison's sake, United's longest route is ORD-HKG on a 747, which is 300 miles shorter than SFO-DEL. United does sometimes have to take a weight restriction on this flight. The 777s in United's fleet do not have the ultra long range like the ones operated by other airlines like Continental. It has to do with engines and MTOW. So the 744 really is the longest range plane in the fleet. It is the only one capable of the 14 hour flights and is why you only see 747s on ORD-HKG and LAX/SFO-SYD.

So to get back to the question, it would be a push for UA to operate SFO-DEL. The 747 would probably be the only plane to be able to do it. On a personal note, I believe that it would be a good route for United. It is time consuming to get to India from the west coast. Things have been made better with CO's and AA's nonstop flights, but unless you are going to Delhi, India is still a challenge since connections to other cities in India are hard with the given arrival and departure time of AA and CO since the flights arrive at about 8pm, which when you take into account time for customs and immigration means that you don't have many more options without overnighting in DEL, which is no fun.

When going to other cities like Bombay (Mumbai), Bangalore, Hyderabad, Madras (Chennai), Calcutta (Kolkata) you still have to fly through Europe or Asia. It is a long way. I would guess that many people in San Francisco probably fly a United/Lufthansa combination since UA has a huge frequent flyer base and Lufthansa has a huge number of flights to India. Going through Asia can be a little more difficult since connections do not work out as well. Often times you have to overnight somewhere like SIN. Europe is easier, but still it is a very long way. I think a nonstop flight from SFO or LAX would be huge, especially if it arrived during the day and allowed for connections. I would expect that Air India is already planning nonstop flights to LAX in the future.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
Nimish
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:17 pm

Quoting UAL#1fan (Reply 36):
But if there's any market that United should be serving right now, it's India, especially if they want to maintain their status as the premier U.S. airline to Asia.

I agree fully, I don't know what UA hopes to gain by just "monitoring" the situation endlessly. They've let relative pip-squeaks like AA/CO (on the US-Asia market) corner the non-stop market (something that UA had already announced prior to 9/11). They have a huge FF base that currently flies LH to come to India (or less frequently SQ or TG). Given UA/LH already have a good hold on the US-Europe-India market, UA would probably benefit from launching Westcoast-NRT-India flights, or non-stops (but there they have a problem due to the lack of ULR a/c).
Incredible India!
 
cricket
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:11 pm

Quoting UAL#1fan (Reply 36):
Why United does not start service to India from ORD or SFO is beyond me. They could make it happen, and I'm sure they'd get plenty of demand for either route.

USA-India is a ready-made market, and with many Indians belonging to relatively higher-income groups in the US, they'ld even get high-yields on the route. But do they have the aircraft for the sector?

Quoting Aseem (Reply 34):
One the side note. one of the reason AA and CO non-stop are so popular is because they are the least expensive. Anytime I do a search for YYZ-DEL, the least expensive comes out to be CO's via EWR.

That said, my aunt just did DFW-ORD-DEL-ORD-DFW on AA on J and she loved the flight. She told me (as a Dallas area resident) that AA should get one of those "planes that can do Texas-India and she would be on it in a flash". Even if CO and AA give slightly cheaper fares I'm sure they have very decent yields because there has been no whingeing on this sector.
A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
 
initref
Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2000 12:28 am

RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:29 pm

Quoting Nimish (Reply 29):
My personal opinion is that 9W will live to rue the day they decided that one-stops are the way to go. I've flown on the TG 345 LAX-BKK, and nothing beats not having to get down and go around security/boarding in between. While the one-stop route allows you to pick up additional traffic halfway, the real market is in India-US, and 9W will loose out to the non-stop operators in that market.

Maybe 9W will eventually pick up discarded 345s after all the current operators junk the plane and move to the 772LRs (as many on this board would like you to believe) Big grin

All depends on where the non-stops go to.. not much point for a BLR bound traveller to take a non-stop to DEL and switch to a domestic flight, if 9W can get him/her to BLR with a stop in LHR or elsewhere.

9W has no plans to continue with the 345 - they are currently very short of widebodies and would really prefer if their 777s were delivered tomorrow. You will hear about their US plans only when their Boeings arrive.
 
cricket
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:53 pm

Quoting InitRef (Reply 41):
All depends on where the non-stops go to.. not much point for a BLR bound traveller to take a non-stop to DEL and switch to a domestic flight, if 9W can get him/her to BLR with a stop in LHR or elsewhere.

9W has no plans to continue with the 345 - they are currently very short of widebodies and would really prefer if their 777s were delivered tomorrow. You will hear about their US plans only when their Boeings arrive.

They're 343's btw. And those 777's start arriving within the next twelve months.

However, you have a point - 9W might just start using a major European airport (BRU???) as a scissor hub for NA flights. So you can have flights from BOM, DEL, BLR, MAA, HYD (and maybe even CCU) converge there and then the five planes move onward to EWR, ORD, DFW, LAX, SFO, YYZ. The advantage with this is that you can even use the A330's on such legs. The 777-300ER can do the high-yield, high-demand, high-cargo legs and the A330's can be used on the lower demand sectors.
A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
 
roseflyer
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:44 pm

Quoting InitRef (Reply 41):
All depends on where the non-stops go to.. not much point for a BLR bound traveller to take a non-stop to DEL and switch to a domestic flight, if 9W can get him/her to BLR with a stop in LHR or elsewhere.

There is no reason at all for a BLR passenger to go via DEL since it can require overnighting in DEL. Yes there are a few 10pm departures from DEL, but those require going through customs and immigration and switching terminals in two hours, which can be a challenge. Going via LHR, FRA or other airports are quicker connections.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
initref
Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2000 12:28 am

RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:57 am

Quoting Cricket (Reply 42):
They're 343's btw. And those 777's start arriving within the next twelve months.

Typo - called them 345 just after reading Nimish's tongue-in-cheek comment. I meant the ex-SAA 343E

the 330s will take over (or add) Asia routes as they come on stream, while the B777 will be for US (and other yet to be announced Long Haul destinations).
 
airxliban
Posts: 4288
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 12:14 pm

RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:01 am

What about SFO-Bangalore? I think the last time this topic came up someone suggested that there would be a big market for service to BLR and many agreed.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 28):
Now the question is would you want to spend 16-17 hours in a plane

In Business Class, yes...in economy class, not really, in Air India in economy class, hell no! I think some of the complaints about Air India's service (or lack thereof) should be remedied for attempting flights of that duration.

Quoting Aseem (Reply 34):
On return one of the fellow passenger died one hour before landing due to lack of medical assistance.

Are you serious? That is awful! How did they let happen? And where are the lawsuits?

[Edited 2006-04-25 21:02:14]
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
CHI787ORD
Posts: 679
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:26 pm

Quoting UAL#1fan (Reply 36):
Why United does not start service to India from ORD or SFO is beyond me. They could make it happen, and I'm sure they'd get plenty of demand for either route.

I realize they just got out of bankruptcy, they're strapped for international widebody aircraft, etc. But if there's any market that United should be serving right now, it's India, especially if they want to maintain their status as the premier U.S. airline to Asia.

Well, I have talked to some people at UA, no one at the top of course, and they say they have no plans for India at the moment. However, my UA sources here in Chicago do say that India is definetly still on the radar and the following two routes are being examined: ORD-DEL-BOM, and SFO-NRT-BLR.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 40):
That said, my aunt just did DFW-ORD-DEL-ORD-DFW on AA on J and she loved the flight. She told me (as a Dallas area resident) that AA should get one of those "planes that can do Texas-India and she would be on it in a flash". Even if CO and AA give slightly cheaper fares I'm sure they have very decent yields because there has been no whingeing on this sector.

My mother flew ORD-DEL-ORD and she loved it as well. Except for the food, ofcourse. No one ever really does seem to enjoy AA meals. Haha.
 
blrsea
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RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:47 pm

Does UA have 5th freedom rights from NRT?
 
Nimish
Posts: 2911
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:46 pm

RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:17 pm

Quoting Blrsea (Reply 47):
Does UA have 5th freedom rights from NRT?

Yes - I believe they do. They fly to a number of points all over Asia from NRT, and so does NW.
Incredible India!
 
baw716
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Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 7:02 pm

RE: SFO-India Nonstop

Mon May 01, 2006 5:54 pm

UA does not have the right aircraft to fly SFO-DEL. The 747-400 would be too big and as others have said, the 777s they have can't make the distance. Since no new aircraft orders are in UAs immediate future, I don't see it being realistic that UA would take it on.

This said, I think if UA had the right aircraft, this would be a solid route. The O&D traffic alone would be sufficient to make the flight profitable. I agree with those who state that there is sufficient nonstop service to secondary markets from Europe that connecting traffic will likely continue going via Europe rather than connecting at DEL.

AI has been getting their 777s from UA. Unless they plan to source a different 777 (one with GE engines and the extra tanks), it may not be AI that does this either. Of course, there is sufficient precedent for an airline acquiring specific aircraft for specific routes (SQ is the prime example). The 345s they have are specifically configured for the USA-Singapore routes that are in excess of 8000 mi; the lower payload and OEW (due to fewer seats) makes that flying possible. Right now, the only aircraft that could do that route would be the 345, or the 772LR (let us say do it profitably). TG operating nonstop LAX-BKK is the most direct routing to DEL now. Since BKK-DEL is only about three hours, if the flights are timed properly, it probably would be one of the quickest ways around.

Only time will tell how things will shake out.

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998

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