Cadet57
Topic Author
Posts: 7174
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:02 am

BDL, Any More Expansion?

Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:16 am

Right now, DL has been adding flights such as BDL-SLC and starting 6/8 BDL-LAS. What I want to know is if there is plans for anymore future expansion. I know that they will soon be in the process of making Terms A and B one terminal. I know that they have been trying to lure in International service for a long time, is it soon coming? Or will BDL continue to serve the same markets it does now?
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
HVNandrew
Posts: 385
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:05 am

RE: BDL, Any More Expansion?

Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:02 am

DL is expanding its service out of the airport. By August, DL will have mainline service to the following destinations out of BDL: ATL, CVG, FLL, LAS, LAX, MCO, SLC, TPA and PBI. They'll have DL Connection service to CMH, CVG, RSW and JFK. But, alot of those routes are only once daily - LAS, LAX, SLC, PBI, and when summer rolls around, RSW. Still, they have by far the largest operations out of BDL.

I think that DL will reopen their Crown Club at BDL sometime in the future - after they come out of BK. But as far as expansion, I'm not sure where they can go out of BDL right now. They feed to every DL hub/focus city, except BOS and LGA. They already have seven daily BDL-ATL flights, and four BDL-CVG flights. I could see them maybe adding a second BDL-SLC route, and a flight down to JAX.

As far as international service, I don't see it happening with DL. The new BDL-JFK routes are going to serve as the international feed out of BDL. I don't think there's a market to support a daily, or even a 5x weekly, flight to CDG, FRA, etc...
 
petmbro
Posts: 254
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:07 pm

RE: BDL, Any More Expansion?

Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:34 am

Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 1):
I think that DL will reopen their Crown Club at BDL sometime in the future - after they come out of BK

Would Delta reopen the one in the old Terminal B or would they relocate it to A? Personally I liked Delta's operation out of B, the distance from the counter to the gate was very short unlike at A. I know AA and AC still uses B but are there any plans to renovate it an move airlines like DL back to B?
"don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining!" - Judge Judy
 
Cadet57
Topic Author
Posts: 7174
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:02 am

RE: BDL, Any More Expansion?

Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:37 am

Quoting Petmbro (Reply 2):
know AA and AC still uses B but are there any plans to renovate it an move airlines like DL back to B?

Read Below  Wink

Quoting Cadet57 (Thread starter):
I know that they will soon be in the process of making Terms A and B one terminal.
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
petmbro
Posts: 254
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:07 pm

RE: BDL, Any More Expansion?

Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:39 am

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 3):

Ah completely missed that, thanks.  wave 
"don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining!" - Judge Judy
 
belizexp
Posts: 273
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:56 am

RE: BDL, Any More Expansion?

Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:53 am

I can see DL maybe trying a Sat only NAS or some other weekend only market in BDL. Plus with Jet Blue add more flts to the BOS area it would be wise for DL to keep build up BDL as much as it can before the LCC move in for the kill.
Belize my home sweet home...
 
gman3
Posts: 249
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:13 am

RE: BDL, Any More Expansion?

Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:44 am

I would really like to see United reinstate BDL-DEN again. I also worked one of the last BDL-SFO flights in August 2001.
 
petmbro
Posts: 254
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:07 pm

RE: BDL, Any More Expansion?

Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:20 am

Quoting Gman3 (Reply 6):
I also worked one of the last BDL-SFO flights in August 2001.

Why did UA end SFO? I did SFO-BDL in August 1999 and the flight was oversold.
"don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining!" - Judge Judy
 
HVNandrew
Posts: 385
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:05 am

RE: BDL, Any More Expansion?

Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:26 am

Quoting Belizexp:
I can see DL maybe trying a Sat only NAS or some other weekend only market in BDL. Plus with Jet Blue add more flts to the BOS area it would be wise for DL to keep build up BDL as much as it can before the LCC move in for the kill.

Not a bad idea. Once daily service to SJU might work. AA already runs it, but their loads are decent out of BDL, and the area could probably sustain a second run.

DL is suprising me in BDL. I was kind of suprised when they added LAX and SLC last year, and I was absolutely stunned when they announced service to LAS. If they keep up a steady growth at the airport, it's going to be very hard for someone like B6 to move in on that.
 
Cadet57
Topic Author
Posts: 7174
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:02 am

RE: BDL, Any More Expansion?

Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:35 am

Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 8):
Quoting Belizexp:
I can see DL maybe trying a Sat only NAS or some other weekend only market in BDL. Plus with Jet Blue add more flts to the BOS area it would be wise for DL to keep build up BDL as much as it can before the LCC move in for the kill.

Not a bad idea. Once daily service to SJU might work. AA already runs it, but their loads are decent out of BDL, and the area could probably sustain a second run.

Def would like to see that. As I have to fly BDL-SJU-AUA on AA and, well, imho AA blows... Id love to see DL metal on that.

Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 8):
If they keep up a steady growth at the airport, it's going to be very hard for someone like B6 to move in on that.

Take this for what its worth: During my interview for a CSA spot, which I successfully got  Smile the station manager and I were talking and he was saying that right now BDL is having some of this highest pax numbers they've had in awhile. They are also one of DL's fastest growing stations, as shown by SLC, LAX, and LAS.

But im not trying to focus this thread on DL, I used them as a plug as they are growing and Im curious to see how the other major players react, AA, WN, US...
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
gman3
Posts: 249
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:13 am

RE: BDL, Any More Expansion?

Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:41 am

Quoting Petmbro (Reply 7):
Why did UA end SFO? I did SFO-BDL in August 1999 and the flight was oversold.


The route ended on 9/5/01 so it had nothing to do with 911. The reason I was told by the CSR that last week was "We don't know"!!  Big grin
 
petmbro
Posts: 254
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:07 pm

RE: BDL, Any More Expansion?

Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:45 am

Quoting Gman3 (Reply 10):
The reason I was told by the CSR that last week was "We don't know"!!

Shame it had to go, it really was a nice flight.

I have a question about Song. Once they're gone is DL going to bring back the 737's for Florida service or are the 757's here to say?
"don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining!" - Judge Judy
 
Cadet57
Topic Author
Posts: 7174
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:02 am

RE: BDL, Any More Expansion?

Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:52 am

Quoting Petmbro (Reply 11):
I have a question about Song. Once they're gone is DL going to bring back the 737's for Florida service or are the 757's here to say?

IIRC, the Station manager said the the 75's in snot green will be repainted and funneld back into mainline and other mainline 757's will be used on the more popular routes, MCO, TPA, FLL, and LAX for the range. But for thinner routes, look for 738's, mad dogs and maybe the odd 732.
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
Duff44
Posts: 1561
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:48 am

RE: BDL, Any More Expansion?

Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:33 am

With BDL being my home base I know one thing:

They either need to rebuild Terminal B or close in completely...
Terminal A is very nice since the rebuild, Terminal B is a pit (only AA,AC, and YX use it; CO, DL, HP, NW, UA, US, and WN all use A)
I'll rassle ya for a bowl of bacon!
 
MikeTheActuary
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 1:52 pm

RE: BDL, Any More Expansion?

Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:03 pm

Quoting Duff44 (Reply 13):
With BDL being my home base I know one thing:

They either need to rebuild Terminal B or close in completely...
Terminal A is very nice since the rebuild, Terminal B is a pit (only AA,AC, and YX use it; CO, DL, HP, NW, UA, US, and WN all use A)

With BDL quite literally being in my back yard (I'm listening to a WN 737 land as I type), I know something else --

If you go to the hallway connecting Terminals A and B and the Sheraton, you can find a model of what BDL's future configuration is supposed to be. (Last time I saw the model, it was outside the new (temporary?) exit from the US/UA concourse; but with renovations underway, it could have been moved again.)

If the model is to be believed, Terminal B will be torn down, and a new concourse added on to the west side of A.

What I'm not sure of is how they'd stage the construction. ISTR that there are four unused gates in Terminal A, but that would be a tight squeeze for AA, AC, YX, and the charters.

If I had to guess, they'd tear down the old charter/WN/AC/NW/TW/HP gates in B first, but keep the west half of B open for AA/AC/YX until space is made available in A.
 
fjnovak1
Posts: 574
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2000 2:23 am

RE: BDL, Any More Expansion?

Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:35 pm

My question is who are the unused gates (4 gates) on the US/UA pier at Terminal A for??? Could those be the new AA gates?? Also gate 25 is vacant. If you have AC share space with US and move AA you could effectively do away with the ghetto terminal. Consider the setup if you activate all 11 gates in that pier:

United/United Express: Gate 21, 23 (IAD, ORD) *Gate 21 for 757's
US Airways: Gate 27, 29, 30 (PHL, CLT, PIT, PHX) *Gate 30 for 757's
US Airways Express/Air Canada Jazz: Gate 25 (PIT, YYZ)
American: Gate 22, 24, 26, 28 (ORD, DFW, MIA, SJU) *Gate 28 for SJU A300
American Eagle/Connection: Gate 20, 22 (RDU, STL)

With 5 gates there'd probably even be room for Midwest/skyway to stay with AA in gates 20/22. Charters would have to sublease space where available for the limited flights they have anyhow.

Next step is to expand the WN/CO/DL/NW terminal pier and add a gate 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, and 19 -- add gates 15, 17, and 19 on the odd side and 14, 16, and 18 on the even side. Eventually, once the industry inproves somewhat and natural expansion occurs, WN will increase by a handful of flights and need another gate, bringing them to 4 or maybe 5 gates, and DL might take another gate and maybe BDL can attract B6 and FL as well, maybe even Frontier to DEN....consider:

Continental/Continental Express: Gate 1, 3
Northwest/NW Airlink: Gate 5, 7
Southwest: Gate 2, 4, 6, 8 (no stretch as they use 8 now frequently)
City owned for overflow/charters: Gate 10 (like 8 is now)
Delta/Delta Connection: Gate 9, 11, 15, 17, 19 (Delta builds and opens Crown Room Club where a gate 13 would be located)
Frontier or Virgin America or ??: gate 12
AirTran: gate 14 (service to ATL/MCO??)
JetBlue: gate 16, 18 (starts service to FLL, IAD, and west coast)

Of course you'd need some moving escalators in that 18-gate concourse... I think this expansion (to 29 gates) would set up BDL for the forseeable future-- if they expanded anymore the plan should be for a new concourse where the Murphy Terminal is now. What do you people think??
Go Blue!!
 
ROSWELL41
Posts: 754
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2001 3:50 am

RE: BDL, Any More Expansion?

Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:01 am

Does anyone have a schedule of turboprop carriers serving New England or upstate New York from BDL? I know there has to be a few flights. I'm rooting for more expansion at BDL.
 
Boeing757/767
Posts: 2179
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 11:05 pm

RE: BDL, Any More Expansion?

Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:08 am

Currently US runs 340s to Rochester and BUF. Maybe BUF is a Dash 8 as well.
Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
 
RachelBDL
Posts: 64
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:40 am

RE: BDL, Any More Expansion?

Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:28 am

Quoting Gman3 (Reply 6):
I would really like to see United reinstate BDL-DEN again. I also worked one of the last BDL-SFO flights in August 2001.

According to my (WN) station manager, there have been talks about a carrier starting BDL-DEN service again, and WN is a possibility. I don't remember the details, but there is a big name in CT that is asking for it.

I think it's interesting with DL starting BDL-JFK soon. The last I remember of thr route was AA flying it, and stopping service about 3-4 years ago. That flight must be incredibly short. It only takes a few hours to drive. They'd have to charge a really low fare to get people to decide between the flight and driving to NYC.

There's been a little new construction in terminal A the past few days. The vacant section across from the Lavazza coffee shop is finally being built up, and according to the state trooper I asked, will be a newsstand and a bagel shop. Now where DL would put a Crown Room is beyond me. They've got their gate space full already, and gate 8 is on the edge of DL territory. We only use it if we have to, as it's still owned by the state and any use costs us. DL had use of it for a few days last month due to the jetway on 10 (I think) being down.

Quoting Fjnovak1 (Reply 15):
Next step is to expand the WN/CO/DL/NW terminal pier and add a gate 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, and 19 -- add gates 15, 17, and 19 on the odd side and 14, 16, and 18 on the even side. Eventually, once the industry inproves somewhat and natural expansion occurs, WN will increase by a handful of flights and need another gate, bringing them to 4 or maybe 5 gates, and DL might take another gate and maybe BDL can attract B6 and FL as well, maybe even Frontier to DEN....

I don't believe there is enough room to extend the terminal without edging into cargo/post office space. Right now DL and NW park terminators overnight in the area.
I not only drink the KoolAid, I do the Jello shots too!
 
Boeing757/767
Posts: 2179
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 11:05 pm

RE: BDL, Any More Expansion?

Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:31 am

Regarding the DL service to JFK, I doubt there would be any passengers flying between the two points -- it's all to funnel international conections.

I flew UA BDL-DEN a few times, and every time the flights were full. I can see Frontier returning to New England at BDL with flights to DEN.
Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
 
Cadet57
Topic Author
Posts: 7174
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:02 am

RE: BDL, Any More Expansion?

Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:43 am

Quoting RachelBDL (Reply 18):
That flight must be incredibly short. It only takes a few hours to drive.

about 55 minutes

Quoting RachelBDL (Reply 18):
They'd have to charge a really low fare to get people to decide between the flight and driving to NYC.

well CO charges about 400-600 dollars and up for their BDL-EWR route... lets hope DL lowers that, alot.

Quoting Boeing757/767 (Reply 19):
Regarding the DL service to JFK, I doubt there would be any passengers flying between the two points -- it's all to funnel international conections.

IDK, you could get alot of folks who dont want to drive or take a train for day or short overnights to the city.
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
MikeTheActuary
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 1:52 pm

RE: BDL, Any More Expansion?

Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:55 am

Quoting ROSWELL41 (Reply 16):
My question is who are the unused gates (4 gates) on the US/UA pier at Terminal A for??? Could those be the new AA gates?? Also gate 25 is vacant. If you have AC share space with US and move AA you could effectively do away with the ghetto terminal. Consider the setup if you activate all 11 gates in that pier:

I think the plan at one point (and possibly still now) was the remaining carriers in Terminal B to come over to Terminal A once they finished renovations on the old half of A. While the arrangement that you describe could work (although I think some of those gates would be tight for AA's A300 to SJU), I think it would be more cramped and limiting than BDL management would like. There'd be no space left over for charters or new airlines until new gates are built.

Quoting ROSWELL41 (Reply 16):
Next step is to expand the WN/CO/DL/NW terminal pier and add a gate 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, and 19 -- add gates 15, 17, and 19 on the odd side and 14, 16, and 18 on the even side.

The master plan includes a provision to add 4 gates to the end of the newest concourse. I think if you go beyond that, things would start to get tight as regards to clearance for apron space, taxiway Sierra, and maybe even 01/19 (although that runway is supposed to be demoted to just a taxiway sometime too).

Quoting ROSWELL41 (Reply 16):
If they expanded anymore the plan should be for a new concourse where the Murphy Terminal is now.

That's the plan.
 
jrlander
Posts: 1025
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 1999 3:47 am

RE: BDL, Any More Expansion?

Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:05 am

Quoting RachelBDL (Reply 18):
I think it's interesting with DL starting BDL-JFK soon. The last I remember of thr route was AA flying it, and stopping service about 3-4 years ago. That flight must be incredibly short. It only takes a few hours to drive. They'd have to charge a really low fare to get people to decide between the flight and driving to NYC.

I cannot imagine many people choosing to fly from Hartford to the other side of Long Island. This route is purely a feeder for Delta's other flights, primarily their European and cross country routes. Airlines set the fares for such connecting routes depending on the the origination and destination. In other words- DL's fare for BDL-JFK-CDG will be based on what competitors such as CO (BDL-EWR-CDG), UAL (BDL-IAD-CDG), or NW (BDL-DTW-CDG) charge. Delta is trying to get more traffic onto its JFK operations. To do so, they are trying to capture more traffic from the NE, not just NYC.
 
gman3
Posts: 249
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:13 am

RE: BDL, Any More Expansion?

Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:34 am

I know we all can ponder on what routes should be flown but I really do not know why we at United ever stopped flying from BDL to DEN. Out of all the routes we have lost in the past years, I think this one was always a mystery to me. With the amount of traffic that comes out of that airport, it just doesn't make sense that some of that traffic can not be funnelled through DEN. Not to mention the amount of people who like to ski in the winter.
I also wouldn't mind seeing a PVD-DEN route.

Yes, I am playing armchair Ops manager!
 
Eric777
Posts: 193
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:46 pm

RE: BDL, Any More Expansion?

Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:33 pm

I also scratch my head as to (1) why DEN-BDL was ever cancelled (and SFO too), and (2) why it hasn't been restarted. The SLC flight seems to be doing well. You'd figure UA or F9 would see that. You gotta think that DEN cannot be too far off now.

As for JFK, I remeber when AEagle and Trans States flew props and DL had a 763 on it. I would think that if anyone really wanted to start service from BDL-NYC just for point-to-point, it would go to LGA.

Anyway, here's my votes for new service at BDL:
DEN - UA or F9
SFO - UA
MEM - NW
Europe - Anyone
 
Cadet57
Topic Author
Posts: 7174
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:02 am

RE: BDL, Any More Expansion?

Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:44 pm

Quoting Gman3 (Reply 23):
I also wouldn't mind seeing a PVD-DEN route.

Humbug  Wink

Quoting Eric777 (Reply 24):
I would think that if anyone really wanted to start service from BDL-NYC just for point-to-point, it would go to LGA

LGA would not do any good for DL as the JFK flight is timed to link with international Departures for more feed for the JFK flights.
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
Eric777
Posts: 193
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:46 pm

RE: BDL, Any More Expansion?

Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:05 pm

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 25):
LGA would not do any good for DL as the JFK flight is timed to link with international Departures for more feed for the JFK flights.

Definitely, similar to CO with EWR-BDL. I'm sure more people transit though EWR than people flying BDL-EWR-BDL only.
 
BDL2DCA
Posts: 309
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:46 am

RE: BDL, Any More Expansion?

Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:18 pm

Quoting Eric777 (Reply 24):
Europe - Anyone

As much as I would love to see Europe service out of BDL, I just don't see it happening. Most European destinations can be reached by a single stop in YYZ, YUL, EWR, JFK, PHL or IAD. Since BDL would likely only get one Europe destination, all that would do is push the connection point to Europe (say AMS, CDG, LHR or FRA). Since most US-based travelers prefer to connect in the US rather than in a foreign country, they are going to choose a US connection point.

Not to mention that huge amounts of the BDL cachement area can drive to BOS or JFK to catch a flight. Those lucky enough to live right near BDL can actually go to either BOS or JFK depending on fares.

The real advantage of a Europe-based connection point is connections to Africa and central Asia. But we have a lot of direct flights from JFK to those points.

Connecticut, for all its business, is still only 3.4 million people. And all of New England is only 13-14 million. I just do not see fragmentation of BOS, JFK and EWR-based services.
146,319,320,321,333,343,722,732,733,734,735,73G,738,744,752,762,763,772,ARJ,BE1,CRJ,D9S,D10,DH8,ERJ,E70,F100,S80
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 2528
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

RE: BDL, Any More Expansion?

Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:35 pm

Quoting Boeing757/767 (Reply 19):
I flew UA BDL-DEN a few times, and every time the flights were full. I can see Frontier returning to New England at BDL with flights to DEN.

F9 was a week away from announcing BDL-DEN, but then WN announced DEN service and that plan went out the window. (notice all the added freqncies to exisitng cities recently announced)

For DEN-BDL it shouldnt be too far off, since they had it for many years before, though fuel prices keep killing the revenue. It'd likely be F9 or UA, I highly doubt it'd be WN, seems they havent really been able to grow BDL like other airports. PVD it'd probably be WN or UA for DEN service, probably no F9 in the next 5 years (maybe beyond that it could happen).

Id say BDL-DEN will be back something in the next 1-2 years, then 1-3 years for PVD-DEN.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
Eric777
Posts: 193
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:46 pm

RE: BDL, Any More Expansion?

Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:26 am

Quoting BDL2DCA (Reply 27):
As much as I would love to see Europe service out of BDL, I just don't see it happening

I agree. As much as I would like to see a couple of transatlantic flights from BDL, I cannot see it happening either, not with JFK, BOS, and EWR not too far away. Plus, like you said, most European cities are accessible with a stop through EWR, PHL, IAD, among others, from BDL. I think BDL is fortunate to have the service it has considering CT is a small state squeezed between major Northeast airports.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 76er, 8herveg, AirbusOnly, Baidu [Spider], D328, eireplane, GCT64, KarelXWB, Lofty, qf789, Revelation, RRTrent, spiplane, SyeaphanR, TheF15Ace, TK105, TP777, voeKL, Yahoo [Bot], zkncj and 240 guests