gr8slvrflt
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AirTran Improvements

Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:12 am

AirTran is undertaking some widespread product and service improvements. The 717s are getting leather seats in Business Class (about fifteen outfitted so far) and new seat covers in Economy (the same pattern as current). The oldest 717s are also getting new, thicker seat cushions. The jetways in Atlanta are being fitted with A/C units to cool the planes without running the APUs. Electronic credit card machines for inflight drink sales are now being tested. There are numerous cabin cleaning initiatives underway as well as a change to LSG Skychefs for Atlanta provisioning. New flooring and wall coverings at ATL are also in the works. The rampers will be glad to know belt loaders are being added for 717s. There are also many operational changes, like increased turn times, coming that will improve on time performance over last summer's disaster. The 5th runway should help, too. All in all, lots of good stuff.
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
PHLBOS
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RE: AirTran Improvements

Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:18 am

Quoting Gr8SlvrFlt (Thread starter):
The 717s are getting leather seats in Business Class

Are the new leather seats the same ones (Recaros) that their 73Gs have? If so, those are the same exact seats (except the color) that YX uses on their Signature Service 717s. I noticed that on a recent FL flight (my first on their 73Gs) I was on last Saturday night. I thought to myself, "Hey, those are YX's seats only in dark blue."
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
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ERJ170
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RE: AirTran Improvements

Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:21 am

Any more connecting of the dots gonna happen?
Aiming High and going far..
 
steeler83
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RE: AirTran Improvements

Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:23 am

Nice! Another airline trying to improve its customer satisfaction. GO FL!
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
quickmover
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RE: AirTran Improvements

Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:23 am

I hate to say it, but those first class seats in the old dc9s were pretty comfortable. Where they originally Delta seats?
 
srbmod
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RE: AirTran Improvements

Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:38 am

Quoting Gr8SlvrFlt (Thread starter):
There are numerous cabin cleaning initiatives underway as well as a change to LSG Skychefs for Atlanta provisioning.

That's quite a surprise there. Perhaps this is the best way to do it since the airline has grown like it has. I remember when I was working there the failed "cater the a/c via the jetway" idea. Lasted all of a few weeks as the area of the jetway where the catering supplies was kept looked like crap and there was much pilferage as well. They did away with most of the catering and cleaning dept during this experiment (the only catering folks were the ones that put together the liquor kits and those that delivered them and bags of ice to a/c), and the cleaning was done by the ramp crews on each gate.

Quoting Gr8SlvrFlt (Thread starter):
The jetways in Atlanta are being fitted with A/C units to cool the planes without running the APUs.

That's been a long needed item there. When I worked there 6-7 years ago, we had two maybe three air conditioning carts. During the summer, you have to take it away from a gate that was using it to keep themselves cool in between flights (Our crew was notorious for this).

Quoting Gr8SlvrFlt (Thread starter):
Electronic credit card machines for inflight drink sales are now being tested.

Way overdue there. I only used the current system once, and it took about 10 days to reach my account. And with today's concerns about identity theft, not having a piece of paper with the imprint of your card floating around is a good thing.

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 4):
I hate to say it, but those first class seats in the old dc9s were pretty comfortable.

They sure were. One of the few times I've ever really gotten a good nap in on a flight was in one of those seats.
 
gr8slvrflt
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RE: AirTran Improvements

Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:39 am

Are the new leather seats the same ones (Recaros) that their 73Gs have?

The seats themselves have not changed. Just new leather seatcovers. Nothing new with the former-TWA seats except greater recline. They'll probably eventually get leather covers, too.
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
OttoPylit
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RE: AirTran Improvements

Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:47 pm

Quoting Gr8SlvrFlt (Thread starter):
AirTran is undertaking some widespread product and service improvements.

I really don't think the word's "Airtran" and "improvements" should be used in the same sentence. I would strongly caution against it. After all, these "improvements" are things that every other airline seemingly already has.

Quoting Gr8SlvrFlt (Thread starter):
The oldest 717s are also getting new, thicker seat cushions.

What happened? Did the "ergonomic"(read:less cushioning) seating just not work out? I guess people finally got tired of feeling the outline of the seat being indented into their skin?

Quoting Gr8SlvrFlt (Thread starter):
The jetways in Atlanta are being fitted with A/C units to cool the planes without running the APUs.

It took Valujet 13 years to learn that running APU's burns fuel and costs money? Geesh, took them long enough to pick up on it. Looks like this little investment was long overdue.

Quoting Gr8SlvrFlt (Thread starter):
Electronic credit card machines for inflight drink sales are now being tested.

Are people planning to buy enough booze that they won't have a couple of bucks in their wallet? I could understand if they were selling food and snacks as well, otherwise this actually sounds like a waste of electronic usage. Bring on the drunks!

Quoting Gr8SlvrFlt (Thread starter):
There are numerous cabin cleaning initiatives underway as well as a change to LSG Skychefs for Atlanta provisioning.

Oh, darn. No more of the, "Lets have the ramp throw supplies at the flight attendants?" Sheesh, that was always a nice little gameb to watch. A FL F/A friend is surprised there weren't more OJI's reported than there was from stuff knocking into a flight attendant from a bad tosser.

Quoting Gr8SlvrFlt (Thread starter):
New flooring and wall coverings at ATL are also in the works.

Joe Leonard:"Hey, Delta opened a Crown Room on C Concourse. Lets throw down some new carpet and turn some heads." sarcastic 

Quoting Gr8SlvrFlt (Thread starter):
The rampers will be glad to know belt loaders are being added for 717s.

Hmm, this is intersting. This seems to go against Airtran's work ethic of "making the Airtran ramp more dangerous than a stampeding herd of buffalo." It seems FL's focus has always been to save a buck on GSE while making your employee's work like dogs without proper equipment in order to try to keep the place running. So why the sudden change? Was it because too many planes were getting busted into with the whole "lets pull the carts alongside" routine? Or was it because those bag carts don't fit too well in the rear bins and kept running into the engine or wings? I really thing management needs to look into this again. If they aren't careful, it might appear they are trying to help the employee's. And if the employees think that, then they will just want, want, want.

Quoting Gr8SlvrFlt (Thread starter):
All in all, lots of good stuff.

You mean, "all in all, lots of stuff that we should have had from the beginning," right?




OttoPylit
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wjcandee
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RE: AirTran Improvements

Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:23 pm

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 7):
Are people planning to buy enough booze that they won't have a couple of bucks in their wallet? I could understand if they were selling food and snacks as well, otherwise this actually sounds like a waste of electronic usage. Bring on the drunks!

Hey, Otto. (I know that you enjoy gigging the competition, and I'm not complaining about that.) Actually, they've been on a purely cashless system for drinks for a long time now. They rolled it out using the el-cheapo imprinters so they wouldn't be stuck with a big capital expense if it didn't work. From a post early in the program, as was frankly predictable, liquor *consumption* didn't increase, but liquor *revenue*, IIRC, more than doubled. Liquor kits and liquor cash were always a substantial shrinkage item at most airlines, and doing away with the cash had the benefits that they expected, so this is a logical next step to speed up the process. I actually think that it was a pretty good idea, and one that really doesn't impair customer service for most customers.
 
BH
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RE: AirTran Improvements

Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:15 pm

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 7):
What happened? Did the "ergonomic"(read:less cushioning) seating just not work out? I guess people finally got tired of feeling the outline of the seat being indented into their skin?

Is it just me or are the seats on FL's 717's wider than DL's MD-88's. I know DL's have more leg room, but when I was walking down the isle on a DL 88 today i noticed that it was wider than FL's so I sat in a seat to check it out and the seat was definately not as wide than FL's. It felt like a cheap hotel....No ballroom.
 
Kohflot
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RE: AirTran Improvements

Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:34 pm

Hmm.. so no more carpet in the C concourse with a design reminiscent of very large fingernail clippings? Or will the DL side still offer it?
Ask why..
 
jmhLUV2fly
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RE: AirTran Improvements

Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:25 pm

Good to see AirTran is making changes they believe will continue to position the company competitively. I for one hope they opt to do more then just recover the business class seats with leather, on the 717's, I tend to find the little pillow behind the head to be a little uncomfortable, never can position the thing just right but regardless, I suppose up to now, the company has been able to do without leather what the majors have not been able to do with leather and all the extras, ie.make money, so I guess management didnt put 717 leather seats at the top of the priority list, but now they are, which is addition.
As far as belt loader use, when I was with the company a couple year back, they started allowing stations to use beltloaders in the rear only, and if agents pull the carts into position by the bin correctly, the carts should not be an issue for the wings, procedure is to pull carts wing to nose in the front and wing to tail in the rear, never tail to wing. I can remember when they started allowing stations to use the loaders, and we all looked at each other and said, man its quicker without the belt loader, so most of the time we opted the old way, I see the FL folks use the loader quite abit now though.
As for the use of APU's, I see how Delta keeps the GPU running between flight turns more then FL does, AirTran has started connecting the A/C hose with APU off, and while it does depend on the crew, often Delta keeps that back engine going...$$. As for the MD-88 seat sizes, I am not sure which side has the bigger seats, but I do believe one side has a wider seat then the other.
I usually opt for the Emergency exit row when open, and those seats usually work fine.
JMH-Pensacola, Florida.
 
OttoPylit
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RE: AirTran Improvements

Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:32 am

Quoting BH (Reply 9):
Is it just me or are the seats on FL's 717's wider than DL's MD-88's. I know DL's have more leg room, but when I was walking down the isle on a DL 88 today i noticed that it was wider than FL's so I sat in a seat to check it out and the seat was definately not as wide than FL's. It felt like a cheap hotel....No ballroom.

Who said anything about the seat size? I clearly remember speaking about the padding in the seat, of which there is none. Now, if you can't argue that, then why do it in the first place? I find it interesting that was the ONLY thing you could find to argue as well. Oh, by the way, the seats on the 717 are 1 inch wider, but the seat pitch on the MD-88 are 1-2 inches more. So you get more on the latter. Most people are taller, not fatter.

Quoting Jmhluv2fly (Reply 11):
Delta keeps that back engine going...$$

Does DL have A/C carts or jetway in PNS? I think not. They do, however, in ATL.



OttoPylit
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
rumorboy
Posts: 294
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RE: AirTran Improvements

Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:18 am

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 12):
Most people are taller, not fatter

Really? I think almost 60% of americans are considered overweight. Better check your facts.
 
USPIT10L
Posts: 1866
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RE: AirTran Improvements

Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:39 am

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 7):

airTran can't be any worse than DGS, Otto. Besides, what's wrong with a little competition. One of the reasons I chose DL in the first place was because they didn't do the sort of price gouging that NW does at their hubs. US used to do the same thing in PIT for years. If DL did that, I'd have no respect for them.
It's a Great Day for Hockey!
 
OttoPylit
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RE: AirTran Improvements

Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:04 am

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 14):
airTran can't be any worse than DGS, Otto.

I never said they were. I wasn't the one that started comparing airlines, someone further up on the thread started that one. As far as if they are or aren't worse than DGS, thats debatable. The pay starts off about the same. At least at DGS, I'm pretty sure they give you enough people to work with. When you see 2 people working a flight in ATL of all places, its a sad sight. And very dangerous, at that.

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 14):
what's wrong with a little competition.

Nothing, I think competition is great. Where did you get that from?

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 14):
One of the reasons I chose DL in the first place was because they didn't do the sort of price gouging that NW does at their hubs. US used to do the same thing in PIT for years. If DL did that, I'd have no respect for them.

Good to hear. But I don't know, management at FL likes to try to let others know that DL is the big bad wolf and will do anything to jack their fares up. Especially when DL announced that there will no longer be an Airtran route that will not have DL competition, what was the first thing FL management did? Try to get the airports of MLI and BMI to discourage DL from entering the market. I don't know why were concerned. Whats wrong with a little competition?

Quoting Rumorboy (Reply 13):
I think almost 60% of americans are considered overweight. Better check your facts.

Well, you can think what you want, I guess thats why your name is rumor. But during my days as a gate agent, I remember most people asking for seats with more legroom because, "I'm a pretty tall person." I don't remember most people asking for wider seats because, "My ass is as big as a semi." Now, I don't know what kind of people you keep attracting at FL, but you must be getting the rejects from WN that are forced to buy another seat.



OttoPylit
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
727LOVER
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RE: AirTran Improvements

Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:10 am

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 7):
It took Valujet 13 years to learn that running APU's burns fuel and costs money?

It must not have cost them to much....cause they're not BANKRUPT like Delta  wave 
I feel woozy....what did you put in that Pudding Pop?
 
USPIT10L
Posts: 1866
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RE: AirTran Improvements

Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:33 am

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 15):
At least at DGS, I'm pretty sure they give you enough people to work with. When you see 2 people working a flight in ATL of all places, its a sad sight. And very dangerous, at that.

DGS was just as understaffed at times. One of the reasons I quit was because our station manager was too cheap to hire enough people. I got tired of constantly being switched from cabin service to ramp, and then back again. Sorry about the slight rant, I do remember you screaming bloody murder for ICT's handling of the FL subisidies, or lack thereof. I was debating what airline to try next. PSA didn't work out so well, and I was able to leave DL on good terms, but don't wish to return to that hornet's nest. YX might be an option as well. PIT doesn't have a whole lot of options as far as airline employment. What do you do for DL, if you don't mind my asking.
It's a Great Day for Hockey!
 
md90fan
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RE: AirTran Improvements

Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:41 am

Good move by FL IMO

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 7):

Is it me or does this guy hate FL lol  wink 
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
travatl
Posts: 1943
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RE: AirTran Improvements

Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:00 am

Yeah, Otto's probably the biggest naysayer of AirTran on these boards. SOME of his rants have some validity, but most should just be taken with a grain of salt... we all have our opinions, right?

- Travis
 
OttoPylit
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RE: AirTran Improvements

Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:01 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 16):
It must not have cost them to much....cause they're not BANKRUPT like Delta

There ya go again. Can't say much positive about the airline in question, so you have no choice but to go after another. Desperation has a stinky cologne.

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 17):
I do remember you screaming bloody murder for ICT's handling of the FL subisidies

Well, an airline and public officials breaking the law in full view of the FAA was just icing on the cake. Had a nice little scheme going on there until it was brought out. Needless to say, ICT citizens weren't too happy their money was going into the pockets of a regional airline just in an attempt to keep fares low, when that airline would not add growth to the market. Kinda defeats the purpose, no?

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 17):
YX might be an option as well.

I say go for it. They've had some troubling times lately, but from what I know, YX is still "America's Favorite Little Airline."

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 17):
What do you do for DL, if you don't mind my asking.

I basically decide where to put airplanes all day long.


Anyone else find it interesting that whenever an FL thread comes up, no one really pays attention, except for the FL people on the forum? I do.




OttoPylit
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
OttoPylit
Posts: 2259
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RE: AirTran Improvements

Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:07 am

Quoting Travatl (Reply 19):
Yeah, Otto's probably the biggest naysayer of AirTran on these boards. SOME of his rants have some validity

Well, I feel if your going to be a critic of something, you might as well be honest about it. Not every airline is perfect, and not every airline will make everyone happy. But if you actually follow the trail of Valujet/Airtran and look at it objectively, you will see it is nothing but a grenade with the pin pulled, just waiting to go BOOM.

Just curious Trav, which of my "rants" do have validity that you know of? I believe they all do, but I'm curious to hear your side of the story.



OttoPylit
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
steeler83
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: AirTran Improvements

Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:12 am

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 14):
US used to do the same thing in PIT for years. If DL did that, I'd have no respect for them.

And people wonder why there is hardly any O&D demand at PIT...
Why do airlines do that anyway; it really doesn't maximize profits. It scares the pax away IMO...

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 18):
Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 7):


Is it me or does this guy hate FL lol



Quoting MD90fan (Reply 18):
Yeah, Otto's probably the biggest naysayer of AirTran on these boards. SOME of his rants have some validity, but most should just be taken with a grain of salt... we all have our opinions, right?

- Travis

After all, doesn't the guy work for DL or didn't he work for DL?  Smile
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
travatl
Posts: 1943
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RE: AirTran Improvements

Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:29 am

Ya know, Otto, I try to have respect for everybody on these threads - and unlike some of my colleagues, I will not be drawn into one of your tirades.

I've said it before, I'll say it again....there are plenty of organizations out there that I have extremely negative opinions about (Mesa Airlines for one), but I do not put forth the extreme effort that you do, to seek out and spew
such hateful, venemous, biased judgements at EVERY opportunity. I mean, really it's borderline obsessive, compulsive behavior

I also understand that part of your motivation is your amusementget at seeing the AirTran folks lose their minds over your rants, (Hell, even I think it's funny some time reading these guys blow their stacks), but in the end you come across as bitter and miserable, and easily dismissed. (Don't get me wrong, there's an FL employee on here that has matched you in that department in his own rants).

That all said, I reiterate that I will not engage in a lengthy defensive dialogue of ValuJet. This reponse was simply to opine on your offensive intrusions into otherwise professional, albeit boring discussions.

- Travis

P.S. Please feel free to retort with a nasty anti-AirTran response. You are nothing, if not predictable....
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 3623
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RE: AirTran Improvements

Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:41 am

This DL/FL thread is just as vicious as any A/B thread. LOL!
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: AirTran Improvements

Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:48 am

Quoting Travatl (Reply 23):



And Otto:



Your hatred towards AirTran is so predictable and tiresome. I had hatred towards the airline for awhile after I was fired from there, but I got over it. So perhaps it's time to get over it. You should be happy that it looks like your airline's pilots won't be putting you in the unemployment line.
 
flamant15
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 12:39 pm

RE: AirTran Improvements

Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:56 am

I don't work for the airlines and I am not a huge fan of any one in particular.

I think FL is a great airline. They are doing some really good things that make me want to fly them (XM Radio, cheap first class upgrades day of flight, clean new planes, ...). If I was based out of ATL I would make FL my first choice.

Sounds like the changes are going to be small improvements. One of the things I like about FL is they change things slowly. To me it seems like they think things through and spend small amounts at a time so they don't get into financial trouble.

As a paying customer who has flown AirTran of old and AirTran of new I am impressed each and every time.
 
OttoPylit
Posts: 2259
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RE: AirTran Improvements

Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:12 am

Quoting Travatl (Reply 23):
I will not be drawn into one of your tirades.



Quoting Travatl (Reply 23):
but I do not put forth the extreme effort that you do, to seek out and spew
such hateful, venemous, biased judgements at EVERY opportunity



Quoting Travatl (Reply 23):
That all said, I reiterate that I will not engage in a lengthy defensive dialogue of ValuJet. This reponse was simply to opine on your offensive intrusions into otherwise professional, albeit boring discussions.



Quoting Travatl (Reply 23):
P.S. Please feel free to retort with a nasty anti-AirTran response. You are nothing, if not predictable....

Travis, I'm disappointed in you. You were one of the Airtran people on here that I respected, as you always seemed so calm and full of manners. But very slowly, your starting to make me change my mind. After all, you said you try to have respect for everyone, yet then you refer to my harmless post 21 as "tirade-ic, hateful, venomous, biased, offensive, intrusive, anti-Airtran, and predictable."

Now, you know, just as well as I do, my posts are much worse than that. Don't put me off as such a soft guy, your giving me a bad rep here. rotfl  And your right, these Airtran discussions are boring. You should be thanking me for bringing some life to it. Otherwise, this thing would be archived already for being so dead. I'm assuming your thanking me silently. Your welcome!

Quoting Travatl (Reply 23):
I've said it before, I'll say it again....there are plenty of organizations out there that I have extremely negative opinions about (Mesa Airlines for one),

Whats wrong with Mesa? Tell me about it, man.

Quoting Travatl (Reply 23):
but I do not put forth the extreme effort that you do, to seek out and spew
such hateful, venemous, biased judgements at EVERY opportunity

You have your way, I have mine. smirk 

Quoting Travatl (Reply 23):
I mean, really it's borderline obsessive, compulsive behavior

The doctor's told me I should do something 'calming' to assist with my anger management and OCD impulses.

Quoting Travatl (Reply 23):
I also understand that part of your motivation is your amusementget at seeing the AirTran folks lose their minds over your rants

Did you think I only come on here to talk about aviation? Who in their right mind does that? It is kind funny, ain't it?

Quoting Travatl (Reply 23):
Hell, even I think it's funny some time reading these guys blow their stacks

Once again, I assume your thanking me silently. Your welcome.

Quoting Travatl (Reply 23):
but in the end you come across as bitter and miserable, and easily dismissed.

Apparently not. Look how many people's fancy I've struck, including yours. scratchchin  Besides, if you knew me personally, you would know I'm much more bitter and miserable than I come across as.  rotfl 

Quoting Travatl (Reply 23):
Don't get me wrong, there's an FL employee on here that has matched you in that department in his own rants

Only one? Our counting must be off, I've counted much more. But I think I've got an idea who your talking about. Care to share it with us?

Quoting Travatl (Reply 23):
That all said, I reiterate that I will not engage in a lengthy defensive dialogue of ValuJet.

Well, ok. But would you care to engage in a lengthy defensive dialogue of Airtran? I will settle for that, if you like. We can have a good ole time. chat 

Quoting Travatl (Reply 23):
This reponse was simply to opine on your offensive intrusions into otherwise professional, albeit boring discussions.

Um, from my understanding, ANYTHING that contains the subject of Airtran is anything but professional. Boring? Yes. Professional? No. I just come on here to set the record straight. And the Airtran people on here prove me true every time. If I said something false, it could be proven wrong. It never is. If I said something that was true, even if embarrassing for those involved, those people either keep quiet and try to ignore it, or attack the poster about something that isn't relevant. Take, for instance, our friends above in posts 9, 13, and 16. They could not argue against the post, so they try to go for a shot below the belt. Obviously, it didn't work.

Quoting Travatl (Reply 23):
Please feel free to retort with a nasty anti-AirTran response. You are nothing, if not predictable....

Would this response be considered anti-Airtran? If not, I'm sure I could do much better. I actually wrote it while still blushing from your flattering remarks. I think those are the nicest things that you've ever said to me. blush 

By the way, were you implying that I'm nothing, but predictable, or I'm nothing, and predictable? I'm confused. After all, I thought we were getting along so well.... highfive 

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 25):
Your hatred towards AirTran is so predictable and tiresome.

 yawn  (yawn)Travis already beat you to the comment. But apparently, as predictable and tiresome as it is, I seem to be a little raincloud on your half of the party. raincloud  Yet you felt the need to chime in as well. Thanks for joining the party.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 25):
I had hatred towards the airline for awhile after I was fired from there, but I got over it

I'm sorry, not trying to be mean here, but how does one get fired from Airtran? I mean, its Airtran. Its the simplest and embarrassingly most basic form of air transportation, they have proven that themselves time and time again. How in the heck would you get fired? I mean, their only qualification is that you walk in a somewhat erect manner, and your hired! I once spoke to someone in IAD that didn't even speak English. The only words I could comprehend was "name" and "bags." Yet, he apparently made it through with the company. How in the world could you possibly get fir......oh wait, you did something right, didn't you? You either did something right, or saw something wrong and tried to correct it. Its already a known fact that Airtran expects their people to be blind sheep that just follow the leader. It doesn't matter that what your doing is dangerous, illegal, or just plain wrong, but your not allowed to question management's judgement, despite how in error it may be. Thats what you did, isn't it? You should be ashamed of yourself for actually doing something right or being a whistleblower. whistleblower  I really don't know how you sleep at night.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 25):
So perhaps it's time to get over it.

Get over what? I'm not the one that got fired. I'm not the one who was bitter. I'm just the one that calls it like it is. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, despite how much Airtran wants me to call it a moose, I just don't see it that way. talktothehand 

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 25):
You should be happy that it looks like your airline's pilots won't be putting you in the unemployment line.

Hey, don't go giving them so much credit! They haven't not done it yet! LOL duck  Once again, you've proven me correct. You can't argue any of the points, they seem to be pretty correct and concrete, so you go off on your own little tangent to make yourself feel better. Question: How is it you can support an airline that fired you for doing something right? I find that hard to believe. Really, all your doing is saying they were correct in such actions, aren't you?

Quoting Flamant15 (Reply 26):
As a paying customer who has flown AirTran of old and AirTran of new I am impressed each and every time.

 liar 




OttoPylit
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
FL1TPA
Posts: 225
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 7:29 am

RE: AirTran Improvements

Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:37 am

ALLRIGHT EVERYONE - STAY SEATED, DON'T TALK AND DON'T MOVE AND NOONE GETS HURT!

HE'S TAKING THIS THREAD TO HAVANA!

Another AirTran thread successfully hijacked by Otto. Well done.

FL1TPA
"Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffin' glue."
 
wjcandee
Posts: 5126
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: AirTran Improvements

Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:57 am

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 21):
it is nothing but a grenade with the pin pulled, just waiting to go BOOM

Otto, just out of curiosity...is this intended to imply something about safety? Or profitability? Or sustainability? It's a harsh point, but I'm not sure what it's intended to mean.

Respectfully, I'm just curious.
 
steeler83
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: AirTran Improvements

Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:54 pm

Quoting Travatl (Reply 23):



Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 27):

From college, to kindergarten. Where's the popcorn? Watching this stuff is better than 5 hours str8 of Family Guy... ok... maybe not quite  Smile

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 27):
The doctor's told me I should do something 'calming' to assist with my anger management and OCD impulses.

Did you feng shui your house?  Smile

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 27):
I mean, their only qualification is that you walk in a somewhat erect manner, and your hired!

Ummmmm.... uhhhhh... no I will not succumb to the urge to post... a certain post...  blush 
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
avconsultant
Posts: 709
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:18 am

RE: AirTran Improvements

Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:26 pm

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 7):
I really don't think the word's "Airtran" and "improvements" should be used in the same sentence. I would strongly caution against it. After all, these "improvements" are things that every other airline seemingly already has.

B6 & FL has the best product in the air. Much nicer than any legacy carriers narrow body first class.

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 7):
It took Valujet 13 years to learn that running APU's burns fuel and costs money? Geesh, took them long enough to pick up on it. Looks like this little investment was long overdue.

J7 cost were in line where running an APU was not an issue. Unlike DL who thinks the future is with CRJ's. Too bad DL will not make it once JetA hits $4/gal. RIP.

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 7):
You mean, "all in all, lots of stuff that we should have had from the beginning," right?

Now with revenue's where they need to be, the "stuff" is affordable.


As much as it hurts the DL employees. The LCC are the market leaders. FL has done the impossible - making DL their bitch!! Read the NY Times article on FL from 4/22/06.
 
airtran737
Posts: 3217
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:47 am

RE: AirTran Improvements

Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:02 pm

Quoting Travatl (Reply 23):
(Don't get me wrong, there's an FL employee on here that has matched you in that department in his own rants).

Travis were you referring to me with that one? If so, thank you. As far as Otto goes, on a competition level I think he's a douche bag. On a personal level I think he's a good guy. I have talked with a few times (in fact I just Instant messaged him) and he has always been a good person to talk to. I have also helped him out when he was planing a non-rev trip, and I took a lot of shit for doing so from our friends at Midwest. Bottom line is, everyone is defensive of their airline, especially those of us who really love our individual airlines. Otto worked at AirTran when times were tough, and will always have a bad taste in his mouth. I have been with AirTran for a few years, and I can say that we have come a loooong way from where we were. Are we Delta? NO. Do we want to be like Delta? In some ways yes, but in many other ways we don't want to have anything in common with them. Otto will continue to slam AirTran, and I will continue to bash Delta, but it is all derived from the spirit of competition. I like Delta. I am flying them to LAX this week, but that doesn't mean that I won't call bullshit when I see them do something that is wrong, or just doesn't make sense.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
OttoPylit
Posts: 2259
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:58 am

RE: AirTran Improvements

Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:06 pm

Quoting FL1TPA (Reply 28):
HE'S TAKING THIS THREAD TO HAVANA!

Another AirTran thread successfully hijacked by Otto. Well done.

LOL I like that! And don't worry, your U.S. currency is good in Havana. Cubans LOVE Americans.

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 29):
Otto, just out of curiosity...is this intended to imply something about safety? Or profitability? Or sustainability? It's a harsh point, but I'm not sure what it's intended to mean.

Respectfully, I'm just curious.

No problem. Well, safety is one factor. And we all know how Airtran makes some of its cash. Through city handouts. Let's see, ICT is coughing up 2 million a year, going on what, 3 years is it now? It was being done illegally, until the FAA found out...oops. Let's see, IND gives up 500,000 a year, RIC just opened up its coffers on 5-600,000 a year, SRQ ponies up the dough to the tune of 1.5 million. And the GPT operation is subsidized through the travel agreements with the Beau Rivage. We could probably figure that up to a couple million a year as well. And if I'm not mistaken, I believe PHF has given them money in the past, as well as PNS. But PNS was lucky, when their pot o' gold ran out, FL decided to stay. Now, lets look at some cities that weren't so lucky. TOL decided to stop giving out free money after a couple of years and FL closed up shop. TLH was giving them 1.5 million dollars a year for 3 years as a startup grant. FL made the mistake of boasting that TLH was one of its best stations, performing well above expectations and flights would soon be added. Gov. Jeb Bush decided, "Well, then you don't need all this cash anymore" and pulled the subsidies. Within a month, FL closed TLH, packed up, and headed to ATL, saying the "market" wasn't there in TLH. Apparently, the market they were referring to was the 1.5 million a year handouts. GSO got tired of funneling out the money, and FL gave them the waveoff. Obviously, a lot of the stuff FL "depends" on to remain in a city is the city giving out money in order to stay. They usually hold the city hostage, saying that if the city doesn't pay up, they threaten to pull out, telling the city the other airline will come in and jack up fares so high that no one will fly and the city will fall into some kind of economical sinkhole.

When it comes to safety, thats a whole nother thread. In fact, I really don't think a.net has enough bandwith to hold it all. I'll just throw in a few things I have seen personally and heard. Lets see, a buddy that worked in PBI was fired for opening up a can of worms to the proper authorities. For 2 years, they pushed back 717 after 717 with a mini-RJ pushback tug that TPA decided to throw away after the AWAC thing went away. TPA didn't need it, and PBI was in need of a pushback tug, so it was sent there. Now, this pushback is intended for little CRJ's, not a 717. It clearly said right on the side not to be used on anything over 8000 lbs. It overheated so much because of the stress put on it that Jetblue had to come over and save Airtran's butt many times by pushing back their planes for them with a real pushback tug. FL even came down and did a company safety check and PBI failed! Yet, the planes kept coming and going. When TLH was closed, FL suddenly had a pushback laying around, so it was sent to PBI, bald tires and all! Not to mention that baggage carts also had to be borrowed from Jetblue because FL was too cheap to buy new ones for PBI. Fortunately, B6 was kind enough to loan them on short notice and that seemed to work just fine when FL management found out. "Jetblue covering our butt? Great."

PBI also had no belt loaders for quite a while. The rampers would have to drag carts up along side the plane, much how ATL likes to do it so they don't have to buy any more. More than once, the carts would get lodged under the engine of a 717(clearance is about 1 inch short). They would look around to see if anyone noticed and if not, push and push until it was unlodged(remember the Alaska Air incidents recently?) and act as if nothing happened. He also speaks of how one ship number flew into PBI and needed airstarts 3 times in one month because the APU was busted. Now, I'm no mechanic, but I do know that if you have a busted APU, thats something you should have fixed as soon as that airplane has some downtime, but FL will defer and defer it in order to get more utilization out of the plane, basically using the airstart as a crutch instead of the temporary band-aid that it should be used for. Its all a matter of FL not fixing something unless they absolutely have to.

On Saturdays, which are considered light days in the industry, FL decided to keep their costs down in PBI by assigning one person to work the ticket counter, then close it up as the airplane pulls in, go down to the bag room, load up the carts, take them out to the plane and pass them off to the rampers out there, while that agent goes back to the ticket counter to work baggage service, since FL is too cheap to rent a BSO office. That is one person doing the job of 3 people. Now, making your people be productive is one thing, but that is ridiculous. A lot harder than it sounds. And I've actually had to do it as well. Many a times would have to work the ticket counter and then go to the gate, load the flight, then go back to the counter to do baggage service. Also had many times of working ticket counter, having to slide down the bag belt into the bag room(pre-9/11-very dangerous and condoned by station management) to load the carts and take them out to the plane. Would then grab inbound bag carts and bring them back to the carousel to unload. When you have 3 people working as the entire ground crew for a 30 minute turn, that is a huge no-no. Not safe at all.

When this was alerted by my friend in PBI who had to suffer through this daily shift called Hell to Airtran management and mentioned that a lawsuit could possibly be filed by every employee in the station if work conditions were not raised, he was promptly fired on the spot, no reason given, and escorted by airport police off the property.


And if that isn't good enough, I can move to another source, a former roommate of mine who was also an FL F/A. She remarked how this whole "cater the plane from the ramp" deal went, there the rampers were supposed to toss up needed supplies from the ramp into the forward galley. They wouldn't come up the stairs into the jetway because all the supplies they had(Coke cans, etc.) were too heavy to bring up in one trip. They would literally throw them from ramp into the galley. One on trip, she was working with an F/A who was catching the items and handing them over to be stocked. Well, she got distracted for a moment and the ramper threw up a can. The can smacked her in the knee, causing her knee to buckle and she fell, halfway in the plane and halfway into the jetway. Her head was hit hard and she had to go out on an OJI for quite a while, I forgot for how long. Yet, my roommate, Kelly, said they continued doing the stuff and she was hit many times by a errant or hard can toss.

She also brought up a story about how she was working a turn in LGA. Full flight going back out to ATL. One of the seats on the 717 got busted in ATL and was taken out of service. It was not given a placard or anything, they just did not allow anyone to sit there. Well, once in LGA, the plane filled up and at the end, the flight attendants found someone sitting in the broken seat. They advised the gate agent the seat was supposed to be un-occupied because its broken, but the person sitting there is assigned to it. The gate agent huffed, grabbed the phone in the jetway, made a call, and then told the flight attendants that the station manager says that its easier to put someone in the seat, even if its broken, rather than deny them boarding and have to pay for compensation. And that comes from the station manager and was not open to discussion. Then they closed the door while the 2 flight attendants looked at each other in amazement. They alerted the Captain who just shrugged it off, saying he has seen worse and as long as the seat can occupy a passenger, they stay on, broken or not. Now, if a seat is broken, even just because a tray table won't stay down, it is not to be assigned to anybody at all, FAA regulations. But apparently to FL, those are more like guidelines, rather than rules.

I can go on and on if you like. I know many current and former employee's who have pretty appalling stories to tell. Enough to fill a book....hmm....there's an idea! Many of them can't believe they stayed as long as they did, but for a lot of them, it was their first real airline job and they were glad to just have the position, not knowing their employer was screwing them over in all ways possible and that everything they were doing for such low pay was nothing that any employee at any other airline would dare put themselves in such a position.


But apparently, thats just another day in dumps at Airtran.



OttoPylit
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
Ih8b6
Posts: 195
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 7:38 am

RE: AirTran Improvements

Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:15 pm

"AirTran Improvements "

Using those two words in the same title is kind of an oxymoron....eh??? It's almost like saying "Jet Blue posts 1Q06 profit of 500 zillion dollars"!!
Over-moderation sucks
 
OttoPylit
Posts: 2259
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:58 am

RE: AirTran Improvements

Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:23 pm

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 31):
B6 & FL has the best product in the air. Much nicer than any legacy carriers narrow body first class.

And your proof of this is where?

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 31):
J7 cost were in line where running an APU was not an issue.

Costs in line where running the APU was not an issue, or not able to be afforded? Everyone else could afford it.

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 31):
Too bad DL will not make it once JetA hits $4/gal. RIP.

LOL You think that little contingency hasn't been planned for? Guess how much Delta will have to pay before the city picks up the rest of the tab? eyepopping 

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 31):
Now with revenue's where they need to be, the "stuff" is affordable.

The revenue's that you speak of, are you referring to the table scrap handout's from cities? If so, it will only be afforded for so long. However, if the revenue is just now where it needs to be, this would set a record for being the company that took the longest to reach its revenue goals since inception in 1993. Congratulations, Airtran.

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 31):
The LCC are the market leaders

Well, we know who your client's are. Credibility: erased.

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 31):
FL has done the impossible - making DL their bitch!! Read the NY Times article on FL from 4/22/06.

HAHAHAHA! Ok, um, given the fact that DL has chased out FL from some markets already, and has now stampeded onto every market that FL serves and will continue to do so, just exactly how is it that they are making DL their bitch? I would think it was the other way around. Please provide me a link from that article, I would love to peruse it as I read the comics on Sunday morning.

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 32):
As far as Otto goes, on a competition level I think he's a douche bag.

Eyes tearing up. Sniffling a runny nose. Trying to hold back from breaking down. I love you man!!

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 32):
Otto worked at AirTran when times were tough, and will always have a bad taste in his mouth.

Well, not exactly. I mean, that would be a good place to start, but it goes so, so much further than that. Having a degree in broadcasting, I'm just doing my part in exposing hot stories and letting the truth be told. FL may have come a long way, but they still aren't where they should be. They should maybe take a few lessons from WN or F9.



OttoPylit
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
Ih8b6
Posts: 195
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 7:38 am

RE: AirTran Improvements

Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:35 pm

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 31):
B6 & FL has the best product in the air. Much nicer than any legacy carriers narrow body first class.

Tell that to the weekly rioters in DAY on Saturday mornings. 30 minutes before departure: "Screw the customer, we're going to work the flight, see you later".

Fast forward about 45 minutes later: the poor Airtran employees make their way back from working the flight to see their customers still standing there from when they shut the lights off to work the flight.

Then the yelling starts.
Then the name calling.
Then the screaming.
Then the cops show up.
Then the very upset Airtran customer buy tickets on everyother airline with seats.

It was regular entertainment for every other airline's employees.
Over-moderation sucks
 
FL1TPA
Posts: 225
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 7:29 am

RE: AirTran Improvements

Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:56 pm

Hi Otto. Adding to the fray I really must comment on one of the points made in a previous post:

Quote:
For 2 years, they pushed back 717 after 717 with a mini-RJ pushback tug that TPA decided to throw away after the AWAC thing went away. TPA didn't need it, and PBI was in need of a pushback tug, so it was sent there. Now, this pushback is intended for little CRJ's, not a 717. It clearly said right on the side not to be used on anything over 8000 lbs. It overheated so much because of the stress put on it that Jetblue had to come over and save Airtran's butt many times by pushing back their planes for them with a real pushback tug.

I worked ramp in TPA for the entire duration of our "experience" with AWAC CRJs. TPA never had a mini pushback to handle the CRJ. We used the same full size pushback tug that's common to all our stations. The only time B6 was asked to generously donate thier equipment (identical to our own with the addition of a cab enclosure) was on those occasions our pushback had a mechanical problem and a plane needed an immediate push. All other times the pushback was down for maintenance we used a very old dinosaur pushback from ASIG that we rented for however long was necessary.

I'm not suggesting that you call all of your sources and do fact checks, but I'm sure you're aware that everything you hear from friends or friends of friends may not be entirely true. Especially from those that quit or were fired from whatever company.

Posting anecdotes about alleged impropriety at a major airline on this forum is equivalent to falsely yelling "FIRE!" in a crowded theatre. You're sure to draw a lot of attention and send some people into a frenzy. I, however, am not running for the exit quite yet.

I concede that FL may have, at times, conducted business "below the radar" as it were. I will never yield to your attacks on our safety or perceived lack thereof. I have yet to encounter a single crewmember - ramp, customer service, inflight or pilot - whose unconcerned with safety. You charecterize FL's workforce as a bunch of neanderthals barely able to walk upright, overworked, underpaid and hating thier jobs. This simply isn't true of the great majority of FL crewmembers. There will always be some that are dissatisfied, but ALL know the utmost importance of safety in every action, everytime, every day.

I know all DL and DGS employees are 100% happy with thier jobs and have Doctorate Degrees in corporate management. DL has also never engaged in unscrupulous business practices at any point in it's extensive history. So I can see the origin of your "objective" opinions. Having left FL and went to work for DL. Completely objective. Absolutely. 100%.

All joking aside, I do enjoy your rants. They're very thought provoking if not controversial.

FL1TPA
"Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffin' glue."
 
Indy
Posts: 3898
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

RE: AirTran Improvements

Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:07 am

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 33):
Let's see, IND gives up 500,000

Got anything to back that claim up? I believe that idea has already been shot down. Why would IND give out money for an airline to fly routes that are already served by other airlines here?

ATL already served by DL
MCO & TPA served by NW and WN
RSW and FLL served by NW
LAX and SFO served by NW

That would leave only seasonal service to SRQ that isn't served by anyone else that I can find. I seriously doubt the city is going to offer anything for that. Its not like they are opening up IND to new markets. So I find it unlikely that they are getting a dime for it.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
OttoPylit
Posts: 2259
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:58 am

RE: AirTran Improvements

Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:31 am

Quoting FL1TPA (Reply 37):
TPA never had a mini pushback to handle the CRJ. We used the same full size pushback tug that's common to all our stations

Then I tell you what, I'll call my source(probably see him online tonight) and ask him to clarify exactly what it was or where it was from. He was told it was from TPA by a supervisor. So, if he was incorrect, even their station management doesn't know where things come from. It was, however, not the proper pushback tug that we are accustomed to. Heck, when I worked in JAX, our pushback tug once was down for maintenance. In an effort to further reduce costs, they had a ramper do maintenance on GSE. A non-qualified person doing un-approved maintenance on company vehicles. Smart! Anyway, the pushback was down, so that did they do? Well, normally you could do a powerback. However, during the Valujet days, they powered a DC-9 back right into a jetblast wall! laughing  Well, that put an end to that. So they hooked up a regular bag tug to the towbar and off they went. The weight of the towbar on the tug was making it almost lift up the front wheels off the ground and they kept one of the wing-walkers pushing the front down as they powered back. Given that the tug driver was having to drive backwards as if he was backing a boat into the water wasn't safe either, especially when passengers are onboard. Once again, not a safe operation.

Quoting FL1TPA (Reply 37):
The only time B6 was asked to generously donate thier equipment (identical to our own with the addition of a cab enclosure) was on those occasions our pushback had a mechanical problem and a plane needed an immediate push.

Who said anything about B6 in TPA? I clearly was referencing B6 in PBI saving FL's ass. LOL Check your post clearly next time before hitting the send button. covereyes 

Quoting FL1TPA (Reply 37):
I'm not suggesting that you call all of your sources and do fact checks, but I'm sure you're aware that everything you hear from friends or friends of friends may not be entirely true.

Oh, I agree. However, when you have 2 different sources from 1 station telling you something, and then more sources from other stations confirming the same work practices, and then, sources from completely different departments further confirming such practices, its kinda hard to take it with a grain of salt. Being that I can also sit anywhere in ATL and watch some of these practices IN EFFECT at this very moment makes it hard to not believe my own eyes. I guess thats how they get you folks to believe that anything you just did, if unsafe or careless, did not really happen. covereyes 

Quoting FL1TPA (Reply 37):
Posting anecdotes about alleged impropriety at a major airline on this forum is equivalent to falsely yelling "FIRE!" in a crowded theatre. You're sure to draw a lot of attention and send some people into a frenzy. I, however, am not running for the exit quite yet.

Um, I think anything I see with my own eyes and still happening at the company is anything but "alleged". In fact, take a little trip up to ATL and see it for yourself to refute the allegedness of it. Secondly, if its not the way that OSHA recommends it be, and if it is clearly an unsafe act, then it would not be alleged impropriety, would it? Its clearly the truth, and is putting people at risk, both employee's and passengers lives. You would think they would have learned their lesson after having something as tragic as 592 happen, but I guess not. But I don't try to send people into frenzies. I do however, feel there is a need to let people know if an airline is working without proper equipment, without proper safety measures, and is cutting corners to save a buck. Would you turn your car in to get the brakes changed by some guy stayed at a crackhouse, just because he guarantees you he will do just as good a job for $10 less? I would think not. But, if you don't want to run for the exit, thats your choice, but that grenade doesn't care how confident you are that it won't go off. Its only job is to blow up, and whoever happens to be there at that time is fair game.

Quoting FL1TPA (Reply 37):
I concede that FL may have, at times, conducted business "below the radar" as it were.

ATTENTION A.NETTERS: FL1TPA HAS JUST CONCEDED THAT FL HAS CONDUCTED BUSINESS "BELOW THE RADAR". HE HAS, IN ONE SENTENCE, PROVED THE POINTS THAT OTHERS TRY TO BLAST ME FOR IN SUCH POSTS. THEREFORE, HE HAS GONE AGAINST AIRTRAN CORPORATE POLICY OF IGNORING THE OBVIOUS AND FORGETTING ANYTHING EVER HAPPENED. IF ANY OTHER INFORMATION ABOUT AIRTRAN'S WORK PRACTICES IS NEEDED, HE CAN BE CONTACTED THROUGH HIS PROFILE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION. You better watch out. Many of your co-horts are probably saying right not, "What does he think he is doing?"  banghead  LOL

Quoting FL1TPA (Reply 37):
I will never yield to your attacks on our safety or perceived lack thereof. I have yet to encounter a single crewmember - ramp, customer service, inflight or pilot - whose unconcerned with safety.

Keep in mind, I never said those employees were not totally unconcerned with safety, but when local management is holding your job over your head for it, you tend to swallow that lump and go do it. Even if Japanese soldiers knew that there was no reason to behead American POW's, their superiors would hold their lives above their heads and they would relunctantly have the POW's run through. Same thing here.

Quoting FL1TPA (Reply 37):
You charecterize FL's workforce as a bunch of neanderthals barely able to walk upright, overworked, underpaid and hating thier jobs.

Not all of them. Some yes, but not all. In fact, I hold that most of the people on here, even Airtran737 are for the most part good people. Maybe a little misled or confused, but for the most part, they just want a job and Airtran provided it. Its a paycheck, nothing more, nothing much less. Its a paycheck that pays the bills. Sure, they could aim for better benefits and pay at almost any other airline they choose, but unless they do or until that time, FL will do. No embarrassment in biding your time, we've all done it at one point or another.

Quoting FL1TPA (Reply 37):
This simply isn't true of the great majority of FL crewmembers.

Thats another thing. Whats with the "crewmember" deal? To the best of my knowledge, up until Jetblue started, all Airtran employees were called that, employee's. It wasn't until Jetblue started that Airtran decided to copycat and call their people "crewmembers." So whats with the change? Did it officially change your job functions? Did it make you feel like a more important part of the organization? Do FL employees have that much low self-esteem that they need to be lifted by a fancier word for employee? Doesn't the Airtran benefit package cover some sort of therapy for such low esteem and confidence? I'm just curious, whats the point? I'm sure Jetblue is flattered that Airtran is trying to imitate their business practices, sans PTV's that they feel they can't afford, so they go for the less exhilarating XM radio. Ooooh, aaaaah! Tell me, how exactly did your management team come out and and tell you that you were no longer an employee, but a crewmember? I can only assume it was like that scene in "Office Space" where they put up the banner and say, "We want you to ask yourselves, "Is what I'm doing good for the company?"" I bet Airtran put up banners everywhere saying, "You are an Airtran crewmember." Did you guys have little Airtran "crewmember" parties when you found out? LOL rotfl 

Quoting FL1TPA (Reply 37):
I know all DL and DGS employees are 100% happy with thier jobs and have Doctorate Degrees in corporate management

Are you kidding? Any DGS employee I know is miserable. Ask those on here who are DGS people. I truly don't know how those people agree to those jobs and should be much better compensated for the hard work and great job they do. When you have a 767 minutes from departure with 400 bags and you need one pulled, its amazing that they keep track well enough that they know exactly what bin and what container that bag is in and get it pulled in time so that flight can make its departure. Impressive!

And lets not go overboard, most DL employee's don't have doctorates, silly-willy. tongue  Some do have Masters and many have their Bachelor's. I hated school so much I made a vow that after my Bachelor degree, I would attend classes no longer. LOL

Quoting FL1TPA (Reply 37):
DL has also never engaged in unscrupulous business practices at any point in it's extensive history

Well, I don't know about that, but I can tell you if they did, its never been to the point that FL has.

Quoting FL1TPA (Reply 37):
Having left FL and went to work for DL. Completely objective. Absolutely. 100%.

I went to work for FL while awaiting a job opening at DL. No problem with that, everyone takes jobs while waiting for something else. I also worked at Air South before Airtran waiting for DL, until they went belly up. Of the 3 airlines, it wasn't until I got to FL that I noticed how careless that airline works. Putting their people in danger, putting their passengers in danger, and putting their airline in danger, all to save a couple of bucks? Illegally wrangling money from cities, instead of actually seeing if people want to fly your airline and be willing to pay. It certainly made my outlook of the company change. Now Air South, that was a fun, scrappy, little airline to work for! Good folks! I was amazed at the pay raise I would be getting when I applied at FL, and it wasn't until I found out why. Straight from the stn mgr's mouth, "We pay people more than most others because the turnover rate is so high." I quickly found out why. Trust me, I found out a lot of what I know by simply sitting in with my station manager during conference calls. He wanted to groom me to move up in FL and loved me because we were the only 2 pilots inthe station. He had his PPL, I was taking lessons. It wasn't long after I quit that he also quit and he is now selling insurance.

Quoting FL1TPA (Reply 37):
All joking aside, I do enjoy your rants. They're very thought provoking if not controversial.

You are welcome! After all, if no one can refute any claims I've made, they might as well clearly be shown what their airline is doing wrong and be made aware of it. Who knows, maybe one day, they will be able to right those wrongs.

Quoting Indy (Reply 38):
I believe that idea has already been shot down.

How? Where? When?

Quoting Indy (Reply 38):
Why would IND give out money for an airline to fly routes that are already served by other airlines here?

I am not part of FL's bargaining committee. They probably come in and argue that they will make fare's even LOWER, and increasing capacity at the airport, therefore making the airport money in the terms of more traffic and more PFC's. However, they can't guarantee they would make money, so if IND would be willing to assist them with annual subsidies to ensure that we can stay and keep helping make travel cheaper and better for the people of IND. Why do you think their fares are lower than even WN? WN charges fares that make money. FL charges fare to make it seem like such a great deal, but can't make money from it, so they need to subsidies to help.

Quoting Indy (Reply 38):
Its not like they are opening up IND to new markets.

But you just said

Quoting Indy (Reply 38):
That would leave only seasonal service to SRQ that isn't served by anyone else that I can find

I would say that is seasonal, direct service to SRQ, which would be a new non-stop market from IND, no? As far as the answer to your question, read above post.



OttoPylit
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
717-200
Posts: 564
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2000 1:29 am

RE: AirTran Improvements

Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:33 am

Good to see the 717's Biz Class seats are being converted from a velour
cloth material to leather. Getting beltloaders in ATL for the 717's just might
help on that high turnover rate and OJI on the ramp. Look forward to seeing
FL here at SEA in about a month from now and hope they make SEA a year
round destination. Anyone have any idea of who is handling FL here at SEA
yet?
72S 733 734 735 73G 738 742 752 763 E190 M82 M83
 
L1329II
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:52 am

RE: AirTran Improvements

Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:13 am

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 33):
Also had many times of working ticket counter, having to slide down the bag belt into the bag room(pre-9/11-very dangerous and condoned by station management) to load the carts and take them out to the plane.

Whats wrong with walking? Was this a personal choice that your SM let you get away with or were you forced to do this? If this is a personal choice then it seems you exercised bad judgement even if your SM condoned it. By stating that your SM condoned the practices tells me you decided to take a shortcut yourself and I have a hard time beleiving the upper management of FL condoned or condones stupid behaivor such as this.

Just because upper management doesnt know about this doesnt mean they condone it.
"By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?"
 
Midway2AirTran
Posts: 847
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 7:34 am

RE: AirTran Improvements

Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:51 am

These are good customer value-adding initiatives taken by AirTran IMO as the most important thing for customers is a comfortable seat on a safe airline. Seat covers and cushions shouldn't require much investment, but should go a long way in creating more satisfied passengers, especially when many are cutting back.

The enhanced seat cushions in coach (B717's) should be the greatest improvement since that was an area where FL fell short in my experience working there and hearing from customers directly. I never really heard any complaints about seat-pitch. I guess they could call it "The most comfortable low-fare seat without a tv".

Beltloaders in ATL will probably be the best thing to happen to the ramp out there when it comes to loading those aft bins on the B717's, its a pain in the ... w/o one! I remember talk of a specially designed beltloader for the B717 being considered in ATL, might that explain the delay in getting them there?

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 31):
JetA hits $4/gal

Gee I remember when the jump from 40-80 cents was such a big deal and here we are now over $2, almost $3! $4 would certainly yank out some competition. I remember Joe Leonard commenting about how he'd love to see three straight months of $70 and above oil. Granted some sarcasm probably involved, it would control any glut of capacity hanging out there now.  Wink
"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
 
airtran737
Posts: 3217
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:47 am

RE: AirTran Improvements

Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:56 am

Quoting 717-200 (Reply 40):
Anyone have any idea of who is handling FL here at SEA yet?

Frontier.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: AirTran Improvements

Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:04 am

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 27):
I'm sorry, not trying to be mean here, but how does one get fired from Airtran?

It's called having a racist station manager at the time @ ATL, and supervisors who'd jump the gun. Any complaint towards any white ramper by a black ramper usually led to the white ramper being fired or if the whiter ramper was a lead, being moved to a different gate and losing your lead seniority. Now any complaint towards a black ramper by a white ramper got ignored. I had a guy on my gate tell our lead (with me standing right by them), "I ain't gonna work with those Crackers!". I report this to a supervisor, and nothing ever happens (and the lead denied that this guy ever said a racial slur towards myself and another white ramper). Meanwhile, a few months later, a black ramper accuses me of calling him the "n" word and I get canned. The only thing I called him was "A fucking troublemaker", as about a few weeks earlier, he (along with a few other black rampers on a gate) got one of my friends fired and another one demoted (he was one of the senior leads and lost his good off days and was transferred to another gate) by falsely accusing the two of them (both white) of damaging passengers' luggage and theft. The one that got fired appealed and won his job back, but refused to return to work because they wouldn't put him on a different gate (Really smart idea, put the guy back on the gate with the guys that tired to get him fired). I thought about appealing the dismissal, and I had support as well (About half of the PM shift leads, plus some senior rampers), but decided I didn't want to go back to work there either.
 
FL1TPA
Posts: 225
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 7:29 am

RE: AirTran Improvements

Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:21 am

Hook... Line... SINKER!

Thanks for the dissection Otto.

Let me just remind you that YOU DON'T WORK HERE! You speak as if you're looking out our crew lounge window across the ramp underneath C-15 and spotting some of these abhorrent violations. DL must not keep you very busy if you constantly study the goings on over at the 'Tran.

Also your hearsay sourses I consider questionable. Given that some, like you, left FL and were unenthused about the experience leads me to believe they would "spin" whatever occurrence took place as a serious safety violation. A cart pulled 3 inches over the painted perimeter line suddenly becomes "AIRTRAN ALMOST PUNCHES HOLE IN PLANE WITH CART!" How long has it been since you left? How long since your sources left? Policies, procedures, and yes, attitudes can change with time, growth and success.

Those that do work for FL and choose to discuss thier issues with you obviously don't hold thier employer in high esteem. I can't believe anyone that likes thier job would call you up and say "let me tell you how we violated Federal laws today." It's human nature to embellish details of a story to make it more pallatable to the listener and/or reader; especially if the story would bake a bigger splash or further an agenda. WMDs in Iraq anyone?

I stand behind my statement on the possible corporate misadventures of FL. To ignore mistakes makes one as ignorant as those that make the same mistakes over and over. Our follies, in time, strengthen our resolve and make us more resillient in this brutal business.

As for the crewmember thing, I've been called a crewmember since I started so I don't know the origin of the title. My friends at Spirit are still called "employees" and are noticably less satisfied.  slaphappy 

FL1TPA
"Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffin' glue."
 
deltagator
Posts: 6170
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:56 am

RE: AirTran Improvements

Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:44 am

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 44):
Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 27):
I'm sorry, not trying to be mean here, but how does one get fired from Airtran?

It's called having a racist station manager at the time @ ATL, and supervisors who'd jump the gun.

Par for the course in ATL. Sorry you had to get caught up in that crap.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
OttoPylit
Posts: 2259
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:58 am

RE: AirTran Improvements

Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:05 am

Quoting L1329II (Reply 41):
Whats wrong with walking? Was this a personal choice that your SM let you get away with or were you forced to do this? If this is a personal choice then it seems you exercised bad judgement even if your SM condoned it. By stating that your SM condoned the practices tells me you decided to take a shortcut yourself and I have a hard time beleiving the upper management of FL condoned or condones stupid behaivor such as this.

Just because upper management doesnt know about this doesnt mean they condone it.

If you bothered to read my post, I said:

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 33):
And I've actually had to do it as well. Many a times would have to work the ticket counter and then go to the gate, load the flight, then go back to the counter to do baggage service. Also had many times of working ticket counter, having to slide down the bag belt into the bag room(pre-9/11-very dangerous and condoned by station management) to load the carts and take them out to the plane.

This means that I was advised by station management to do so. The time limit between these things was so tight that station management advised,"Close the counter, slide down through the bag belt and into the bagroom, load up any extra bags, and hurry out to the plane." That came from the mouth of a supervisor! Remember, Airtran's focus was 30 minute turns. Thats 30 minutes from the time the airplane pulls in to the time the airplane pulls out. The JAX airport that I worked at during this time did not have stairs that it has now. You would have to walk from Airtran's counter area(on one side of the terminal) to the center of the terminal, go down the escalators, and then walk back to the other end of the terminal and then through the other airlines bag rooms. The time would have taken too long for such a short turn. So it was never a personal choice, but since they were using it as part of my job function, and I was a kid just glad to be working in the industry, I unknowingly accepted it, even though one little slip of my digits and I would no longer be able to count to 11 on both of my hands. LOL

I had even questioned it to my supervisors one day about it, and was told, "Well, thats the only way to get down there in time to get the flight out on time." So I never took a shortcut, I was told to. I was told to do it by station management. This lead to your retort of:

Quoting L1329II (Reply 41):
I have a hard time beleiving the upper management of FL condoned or condones stupid behaivor such as this.

Thats just the thing. They do condone it and they don't care. As long as it saves them a buck and they have someone stupid or naive enough to go along with it, they could care less. The reason to have someone stupid or naive enough is that there is less likely of a chance of a million dollar lawsuit if anything were to happen. This was considered standard operating procedure for the station, because it was the only way to ensure the flight gets out on time. Thats FL management for you.

Quoting Midway2AirTran (Reply 42):
Beltloaders in ATL will probably be the best thing to happen to the ramp out there when it comes to loading those aft bins on the B717's, its a pain in the ... w/o one! I remember talk of a specially designed beltloader for the B717 being considered in ATL, might that explain the delay in getting them there?

Another example of a current FL employee who is praising the initiatives being undertaken by FL management. Initiatives that should have been standard from day one and from the first DC-9. Yet, FL goes for people who just accept it or don't know any better and live with it.

Quoting Midway2AirTran (Reply 42):
I remember Joe Leonard commenting about how he'd love to see three straight months of $70 and above oil.

Well, he's about to get his wish. Too bad Airtran will have to pay for all of their fuel this year.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 44):
It's called having a racist station manager at the time @ ATL, and supervisors who'd jump the gun.

Oh, supervisors who jump the gun is standard operating procedure at Airtran. Its their policy.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 44):
The only thing I called him was "A fucking troublemaker", as about a few weeks earlier, he (along with a few other black rampers on a gate) got one of my friends fired and another one demoted (he was one of the senior leads and lost his good off days and was transferred to another gate) by falsely accusing the two of them (both white) of damaging passengers' luggage and theft.

What the heck is a cracker like you doing calling those hard-working boy's troublemakers? LOL Just kidding, I've had that happen before as well, ironically enough at the same company.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 44):
The one that got fired appealed and won his job back, but refused to return to work because they wouldn't put him on a different gate (Really smart idea, put the guy back on the gate with the guys that tired to get him fired).

Yea, after all that, FL's thought process of it being fixed is to put him right back where the whole fiasco started. Real smart idea.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 44):
I thought about appealing the dismissal, and I had support as well (About half of the PM shift leads, plus some senior rampers), but decided I didn't want to go back to work there either.

Exactly, and I don't blame you. But do you really think that they have come any further than that, HR-wise? Probably not. Tell me, from your knowledge, are they still giving out that little employee handbook to all employee's, the one that is basically considered your "Work Bible" but really doesn't tell you anything that you don't already know? I laughed every year when they passed that out. It basically tells you that if something bad happens, you have no recourse. I doubt that would hold up in a court of law, don't you think?

Quoting FL1TPA (Reply 45):
Thanks for the dissection Otto.

Your welcome. Ask, and ye shall recieve.(bigthumbsup)

Quoting FL1TPA (Reply 45):
Let me just remind you that YOU DON'T WORK HERE!

LOL Calm down, take a chill pill. And thank God! If there is anything you must remind me of, thats not one of them. You can count on that.

Quoting FL1TPA (Reply 45):
You speak as if you're looking out our crew lounge window across the ramp underneath C-15 and spotting some of these abhorrent violations. DL must not keep you very busy if you constantly study the goings on over at the 'Tran.

And you have no idea where at DL I work. But I can tell you this. At my job, I have an excellent view of everything going on in ATL and all it takes is a turn of my head to be getting a bird's eye view of C Concourse.

Quoting FL1TPA (Reply 45):
Given that some, like you, left FL and were unenthused about the experience leads me to believe they would "spin" whatever occurrence took place as a serious safety violation.

You can look at it any way you want, or you can just refuse to believe it. And if so, then you epitomize everything that Airtran management do on a daily basis. They have trained you well and brought you to the darkside of the Force. LOL I bet with a few more days training, they can probably make you jump through a flaming hoop for a treat. Like I said, you can see it any way you want, but I've been away from that place long enough to not need any kind of spin on it. There is no need for spin when it happens as stated outright. No need for embellishment there. But instead of trying to refute what I may say(something that would be easily done if I were lying), you instread try to argue why my points may be misleading, yet you do not deny of what I said is actually happening. Just keep digging yourself a deeper hole.

Quoting FL1TPA (Reply 45):
Policies, procedures, and yes, attitudes can change with time, growth and success.

LOL I love this! So you once again admit that policies and procedures change? Which basically means, "Yes, we did do it that way before, but not anymore" or something to that effect. LOL Look, if FL changed their "policy", then good for them. It doesn't change the fact that their "policy" should never have been policy to begin with! Feel free to keep going, and I'll just feed you more and more rope to hang yourself with.

Quoting FL1TPA (Reply 45):
Those that do work for FL and choose to discuss thier issues with you obviously don't hold thier employer in high esteem.

You mean like you? After all, you've already admitted that Airtran has done these things at least 3 times during this thread. Well, I'm sorry that you don't hold you employer in very high esteem, but I can honesty say, I don't blame you, brother.

Quoting FL1TPA (Reply 45):
I can't believe anyone that likes thier job would call you up and say "let me tell you how we violated Federal laws today." It's human nature to embellish details of a story to make it more pallatable to the listener and/or reader; especially if the story would bake a bigger splash or further an agenda

We're not swapping fishing tales here. This is stuff that can be discussed over an evening of drinks. Now, I want you to open your mind and imagine something, and any ATL based person can vouch for this for me. You get done with work, head over to B-52's for a couple of drinks, run into a couple other airline folk, and sit down and chit chat over a beer. If you are friends with them(and yes, I have friends at FL), you discuss the things you just can't believe go on during a day. "Can you believe so and so got promoted?" "I can't believe American did that, what were they thinking?" "Oh, did you hear what happened over at D North today?" Etc, etc. After a while you get some pretty interesting stories and hear quite a bit of info. Amazing what you can find out while "mingling", isn't it?

Quoting FL1TPA (Reply 45):
I stand behind my statement on the possible corporate misadventures of FL. To ignore mistakes makes one as ignorant as those that make the same mistakes over and over.

Once again, your seeing the truth and admitting it. If nothing else, I can appreciate you doing such, even though there is nothing you can personally do about it, unless your planning to become an FL executive. thumbsup 

Quoting FL1TPA (Reply 45):
Our follies, in time, strengthen our resolve and make us more resillient in this brutal business.

Well, one could only wish that Airtran management would share your thoughts on that. Until that day arrives, I think they could use what you just said in order to not have to take a sleeping pill at night.

Quoting FL1TPA (Reply 45):

As for the crewmember thing, I've been called a crewmember since I started so I don't know the origin of the title. My friends at Spirit are still called "employees" and are noticably less satisfied.

Well, I can assure you that it wasn't called crewmembers ever since Valujet started. But ironically enough, after Jetblue started in 2000 or whatever, not long after, Airtran press releases started calling the employee's "crewmember's", just as Jetblue called their people. When one airline starts it and another airline just copies off that, its just a little flaky. They could have at least waited a few more years, it would have seemed more original, as compared to trying to keep up with the Joneses. Or in this case, the Jetblues.



OttoPylit
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
USPIT10L
Posts: 1866
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:24 am

RE: AirTran Improvements

Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:27 am

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 33):



Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 47):

Wow, what a revelation! I just hope the northern FL stations aren't this bad! I know they don't work with beltloaders, I noticed that from going over to UA in a bobtail to clean planes. Thanks, Otto. That was a very informative pair of posts. Now I KNOW I don't want to work for airTran.
It's a Great Day for Hockey!
 
airtran737
Posts: 3217
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:47 am

RE: AirTran Improvements

Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:30 am

Here's a wonderful idea, let's not argue semantics with Otto. It is a waste of time. By the way, Otto did you figure out if you're going on your non-rev trip tommorow? I'm scheduled to arrive at Gate B-31 at 0835. Look me up if you have time.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever