barney captain
Posts: 1381
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:12 am

CHRIS WALSH
Rocky Mountain News (Denver, CO)

Southwest Airlines is preparing to as much as triple its daily departures from Denver International Airport, reflecting the carrier's intentions to grow rapidly in its newest market.

The low-cost airline appears close to receiving final Federal Aviation Administration approval on a proposal to fly as many as 60 daily nonstop departures from Denver. Southwest, which launched service at DIA in January, currently offers 20 daily flights from the airport.

Southwest's proposal signals that the company is bullish on its potential in Denver, said company spokeswoman Melanie Jones.

"This is a response to the success we're seeing there, and it's in anticipation of growth so when the time is right we have this step in place," Jones said, adding that the carrier has not announced specific plans for any new service.

Dallas-based Southwest last year received federal approval to start service at DIA and was told it would have to go through the process again if it planned to add more than 40 flights.

Airlines that want to start service or significantly increase flights at a given airport must meet certain environmental regulations. The FAA has issued a recommendation approving Southwest's latest proposal, saying the new flights conform with the regulations. The agency is now accepting public comment on the issue.

Southwest has said all along that it sees significant potential in Denver, and industry experts have been expecting Southwest to expand here sooner rather than later.

Last week, for instance, a Bear Stearns analyst downgraded shares of Denver-based Frontier Airlines, saying the carrier will face increased competition from Southwest.

"We believe expansion plans in Denver are aggressive and that Southwest capacity will more than triple in the next two years," analyst David Strine wrote in a research note to clients.

Experts say Southwest could boost flights from DIA to current destinations but also will look to add service to new cities such as Oakland, Calif.; Houston; Orlando, Fla.; and Nashville, Tenn.

Southwest is expanding rapidly nationwide as other airlines become more competitive. The carrier will add 33 planes to its fleet this year and has 140 planes scheduled for delivery between 2007 and 2012. Much of that growth likely will come at the expense of other carriers, said Evergreen-based aviation consultant Mike Boyd.

Still, he said, Southwest faces a tough battle in Denver. Both United and Frontier, the city's largest carriers, are fighting aggressively for passengers and are well-known in Denver. Boyd also argues that, price being equal, those two carriers offer a better product than Southwest.

"The last time I checked, Southwest was not included on the tablets Moses brought down from Mount Sinai," Boyd said. "So there's no guarantee they will be successful."

Consumers could be the biggest winners in any Southwest expansion. The carrier already has helped push down fares at DIA since its arrival less than four months ago. During the first week of April, for instance, fares at DIA were down 18 percent from a year earlier, even as ticket prices nationally were on the upswing.

And, as the competition heats up, both United and Frontier are boosting their service ahead of the summer busy season.

The airport is "very pleased with Southwest's indication that it is looking at increasing its schedule," said DIA manager Turner West. "Increased competition is always good for the traveling public."

Southwest currently has three gates on the C concourse at DIA and will gain one more in June. It typically operates about 10 flights a day at each gate it leases, meaning it would need more if it expands in Denver.

West said DIA will make "every effort" to work with Southwest on securing additional gates.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
airfrnt
Posts: 1993
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:05 am

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:46 am

Not particullarly surprising given what I see in Concourse C every time I fly out of DEN. The flights are full, and aircraft traffic is up not only at WN, but also at F9 (although the SLC flights looked weak) and UA.

DEN is designed to be able to add more gates to the edges of each concourse. In addition they have room for Concourse D and Concourse E (although they will have to move a hanger to do E). United in the past has put the kibbish on any expansion by threating to sue the city if they do anything that affects the Airport's bond ratings. I suspect that they will try to do that again. DEN does need concourse space rather desperatly to find these gates.
 
phelpsie87
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:41 pm

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:37 am

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 1):
Not particullarly surprising given what I see in Concourse C every time I fly out of DEN. The flights are full, and aircraft traffic is up not only at WN, but also at F9 (although the SLC flights looked weak) and UA.

I have noticed that too. Traffic is up at DEN, and a big part has to be WN. Regardless of whether or not the passenger is flying WN, their presence has lowed the fare's on the other carriers. I flew in and out of Denver in March and I was shocked that every flight I was on during my trip was packed.

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 1):
DEN is designed to be able to add more gates to the edges of each concourse. In addition they have room for Concourse D and Concourse E (although they will have to move a hanger to do E).

I believe that F9 has already done this on the west side of A, and I remember reading in the Rocky Mountain News that DEN was going to add at least 2 gates on the west side of C. Not sure if it was speculation or plans. I am looking for the article now.
 
timz
Posts: 6085
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:02 am

Quoting Barney Captain (Thread starter):
Airlines that want to start service or significantly increase flights at a given airport must meet certain environmental regulations.

Huh? Any US airport? What regulations?
 
ssides
Posts: 3248
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2001 12:57 am

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:25 am

I'm hoping ABQ, ELP, or HOU are on the list. As of now, you can't reach DEN from any of WN's Texas markets. These cities would open that up.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
steeler83
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:38 am

Maybe Colorado will be the next state to be removed from the evil clutches the W.A. so that WN could start a DEN-DAL operation. AA, get over it! Welcome to the world of competition... ABQ, ELP, and HOU should be coming soon as well...

[Edited 2006-04-26 20:39:57]
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
iowaman
Posts: 3878
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 2:29 am

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:42 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 5):
ABQ, ELP, and HOU should be coming soon as well...

Is this a guess or fact?
 
steeler83
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:07 am

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 6):
Is this a guess or fact?

It's based on someone else's post; It's a guess
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
F9Animal
Posts: 3644
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:57 am

Best of luck to WN. Can't slam an airline that is successful.

Beware though WN. Your creepin on animal territory. I would not want to see Jack and Foxy show ya up! LOL!
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
iowaman
Posts: 3878
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 2:29 am

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Thu Apr 27, 2006 5:08 am

ABQ and especially ELP are going to be hard to pull offww from DEN right now. F9 has the benefit of connecting and still only has 2x CR7 in ELP, and ABQ has both UA and F9 mainline with connecting traffic for support. I could see maybe 2x DEN-ABQ and 3x DEN-HOU lets say, but I wouldn't expect ELP for a while. WN will probably connect there larger traffic cities next, such as OAK, LAX, SAN, HOU and maybe MCI and STL, or even BNA and MCO. Just my educated guess.
 
quickmover
Posts: 2134
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:28 am

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Thu Apr 27, 2006 5:14 am

MCI and MCO would be slam dunks.
Always full.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 5129
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Thu Apr 27, 2006 5:18 am

Quoting Barney Captain (Thread starter):
Airlines that want to start service or significantly increase flights at a given airport must meet certain environmental regulations. The FAA has issued a recommendation approving Southwest's latest proposal, saying the new flights conform with the regulations. The agency is now accepting public comment on the issue.

Did I miss something? So there are still absurd anticompetitive barriers to entry at all airports to certificated carriers? I was aware of course on certain absurd barriers (Wright Amendment, DCA and LGA slots, etc.) at some airports, but I guess I wasn't aware that one needed to get permission to serve every city. I'm surprised that people haven't used this against TZ, WN, B6, etc. in the past.

Or is this a in-form-only approval that only gets mentioned in the article because of the stupid, government-centic viewpoint of many reporters, particularly the left-of-left RMN?
 
yanksn4
Posts: 1367
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 10:05 am

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Thu Apr 27, 2006 5:52 am

Glad to hear WN is having success here in Denver. Looking forward to taking them from here to NY through MDW.  crossfingers  of a non-stop DEN-ISP flight.

signed,
Matthew
2013 Airports: EWR, JFK, LGA, LIS, AGP, DEN, GIG, RGN, BKK, LHR, FRA, LAX, SYD, PER, MEL, MCO, MIA, PEK, IAH
 
txagkuwait
Posts: 1388
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 1999 7:39 am

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:52 am

I think you will see DEN-ABQ-ELP again.

Prices are too high and that market can do fairly well when the price is right.

The price isn't right right now.
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13176
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:55 am

I agree that Houston Hobby has to be near the top of their prority list for Denver, but how about PHL?.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
DesertAir
Posts: 1261
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:34 am

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:39 am

I would like to see WN give some competition to United and F9 from Tucson to Denver. Frontier prices from Tucson are usually very expensive.
 
incitatus
Posts: 2691
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:35 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 5):
Maybe Colorado will be the next state to be removed from the evil clutches the W.A. so that WN could start a DEN-DAL operation. AA, get over it! Welcome to the world of competition...

This is nonsense. Southwest can compete in the market any time from DFW. But it gets such a sweet deal in landing fees at Dallas Love that it has misled people into believing the W.A. prevents it from competing.
Stop pop up ads
 
OOer
Posts: 920
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:10 pm

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:48 am

Quoting Ssides (Reply 4):
I'm hoping ABQ, ELP, or HOU are on the list. As of now, you can't reach DEN from any of WN's Texas markets. These cities would open that up.

ELP? Are you kidding? Have you seen the loads on DEN-ELP on UA within the past year? They are not very good.

So far YTD the Load Factor on the DEN-ELP route on UAX is 77%
 
iowaman
Posts: 3878
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 2:29 am

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:51 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 16):
This is nonsense. Southwest can compete in the market any time from DFW. But it gets such a sweet deal in landing fees at Dallas Love that it has misled people into believing the W.A. prevents it from competing.

If I was WN I wouldn't want to go to DFW either. And what's even worse is AA is trying to get it closed down yet they started those flights out of DAL.
 
ncflyer
Posts: 504
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:54 am

WN is very adept at PR and this shows why. . .

When I lived in RDU, WN issued a press release about a year after their start saying they could envision having 100 flights at RDU in the near future. They are still stuck in the 20's, last I checked.

When WN added ORF, they placated RIC by saying it was on their short list of cities. Well here we are still no RIC.

I'll believe it when I see it, with the needs of Philly, adding new cities, steady expansion in MDW and BWI, where are all the planes going to come from?

PS Jet Blue does the same PR tactic, and it sure works to get a lot of buzz on this board.
 
kanebear
Posts: 852
Joined: Tue May 28, 2002 12:06 am

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:57 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 16):

This is nonsense. Southwest can compete in the market any time from DFW. But it gets such a sweet deal in landing fees at Dallas Love that it has misled people into believing the W.A. prevents it from competing.

Please, not another W.A. derailment. Separate issue. Move on.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18114
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:09 am

Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 13):
I think you will see DEN-ABQ-ELP again.

Prices are too high and that market can do fairly well when the price is right.

The price isn't right right now.

$75 is too high?

It is, I admit, higher than the present $50 DEN-SLC fares - on which I am sure the airlines are making sooooooooo much profit.

mariner

[Edited 2006-04-27 04:16:29]
aeternum nauta
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 4426
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:14 am

Quoting Barney Captain (Thread starter):
Dallas-based Southwest last year received federal approval to start service at DIA and was told it would have to go through the process again if it planned to add more than 40 flights.

Airlines that want to start service or significantly increase flights at a given airport must meet certain environmental regulations.



Quoting Timz (Reply 3):
Huh? Any US airport? What regulations?



Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 11):
Did I miss something? So there are still absurd anticompetitive barriers to entry at all airports to certificated carriers?

I wasn't familiar with this either so I did some checking on it. Maybe someone who is a little more familiar can chime in. But there is a federal environmental regulation and a docket.

Since this seems to be unknown to many I'm going to start a new thread, so that this one doesn't suffer from drift. Hopefully we can build a little info about this.
http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/2741107/
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 3626
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:49 pm

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 9):
WN will probably connect there larger traffic cities next, such as OAK, LAX, SAN, HOU and maybe MCI and STL, or even BNA and MCO.

I couldn't imagine WN would pass on DEN-OAK. OAK is turning out to be the connection complex for Hawaii. Plus, they've retained their Sat. service.
 
United737522
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 1:33 pm

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:46 pm

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 16):
Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 5):
Maybe Colorado will be the next state to be removed from the evil clutches the W.A. so that WN could start a DEN-DAL operation. AA, get over it! Welcome to the world of competition...

This is nonsense. Southwest can compete in the market any time from DFW. But it gets such a sweet deal in landing fees at Dallas Love that it has misled people into believing the W.A. prevents it from competing.

I agree, it is nonsense. I think it is WN who needs to 'get over it' over the WA. AA is more familiar with competition than WN is. This is another issue though.

I have noticed lately an increase in the fullness of the economy lots here in DEN, I imagine an increase in new destinations may call for the need of new parking facilities and more restaurants in DEN. I am never able to order food and find a place to sit without waiting forever.
'Michael Mooronism' ~Jetjack74
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2303
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:54 pm

I haven't been in DEN for a bit over a year now, but I'm guessing that there wouldn't really be all that much room for WN there? I don't see what their obsession is with it? F9 and UA should in theory, having 2 hubs there be more than enough if you factor in the existing non-hub competition to keep prices in check. Plus you've got the DL hub just next door at SLC along with a WN one too? I mean do they really need anymore?

Anybody local care to fill me in on the situation?
 
airfrnt
Posts: 1993
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:05 am

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:58 pm

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 25):
I haven't been in DEN for a bit over a year now, but I'm guessing that there wouldn't really be all that much room for WN there? I don't see what their obsession is with it? F9 and UA should in theory, having 2 hubs there be more than enough if you factor in the existing non-hub competition to keep prices in check. Plus you've got the DL hub just next door at SLC along with a WN one too? I mean do they really need anymore?

1) Airline hubs are not about fairness.
2) UA and F9's competition has been good for denver. WN in the mix is also good for dener.
3) SLC is not next door to denver.There is a huge geographic distance which makes it impossible to transit to DEN from SLC or SLC from DEN just to get a cheaper/better flight.
 
Greyhound
Posts: 1012
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:37 am

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Fri Apr 28, 2006 1:00 am

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 8):
I would not want to see Jack and Foxy show ya up! LOL!

I'm suspicious of what Larry the Lynx would do.  scratchchin 

I think the increased competition would be better, although I hope Frontier doesn't suffer to much. The one time I was able to afford that airline, I really enjoyed it. So much so that if I have a few extra dollars to spare the next time I fly, I'd go with F9. And I've noticed lately for the time I was thinking of going from SEA to PHX, WN's fares weren't that much different than F9's for my wife and I.

Quoting Kanebear (Reply 20):
Please, not another W.A. derailment. Separate issue. Move on.

Oh thank you for someone saying that. I'm getting bored with that topic allready.  bigthumbsup 
29th, Let's Go!
 
stirling
Posts: 3897
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:00 am

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Fri Apr 28, 2006 1:50 am

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 23):
I couldn't imagine WN would pass on DEN-OAK. OAK is turning out to be the connection complex for Hawaii.

And the new terminal addition should be coming on line when?

All this expansion of WN at DEN is great, but I'm afraid these people forming the increase in passengers just didn't appear in someone's garden as pods.....
Rather, DEN is growing at the expense of COS and to a lesser degree PUB.

Hard for me to get excited about this....Colorado is about more than just Denver.
Delete this User
 
phelpsie87
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:41 pm

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:25 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 28):
Rather, DEN is growing at the expense of COS and to a lesser degree PUB.

Are you serious?? You think that DEN is growing at the expense of COS? Both are growing, and COS is sure to get bigger as more and more people start moving to Colorado Springs. Right now, there are enough flights into COS and PUB to satisfy passenger loads. Look at the stats, total number of enplaned passengers at COS is up 1.8% from last year.

http://www.springsgov.com/Units/Airport/Reports/COS0306TrafficRpt.pdf

Quoting Stirling (Reply 28):
And the new terminal addition should be coming on line when?

Not anytime soon...From what I have searched, there is no mention of starting construction on any new terminal. The only thing they are going to do as add two tube gates to Concourse C.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18114
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:27 am

Quoting Greyhound (Reply 27):
although I hope Frontier doesn't suffer to much.

Dream on. Southwest at DEN will do considerable harm to Frontier, if only as collateral damage.

I used to believe otherwise. But this latest move - 60 departures a day - will put them at half the size Frontier is now.

I am aware that the "Southwest Effect" is supposed to boost overall traffic numbers - but, at 60 departures a day, it would have to be a pretty spectacular "effect" not to do harm to other airlines.

This is competition, and I have no problem with it. But don't kid yourself as to what effect it will have.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
SLUAviator
Posts: 292
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 1:30 pm

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:06 am

How about IAD-DEN for WN's expanded service? I think DEN and MDW are in line for 3+ flights from IAD. If anyone can challenge United head to head on their hub to hub routes, its WN. Gotta have big ones to try that!
What do I know? I just fly 'em.......
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18114
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:39 am

Quoting SLUAviator (Reply 31):
If anyone can challenge United head to head on their hub to hub routes, its WN. Gotta have big ones to try that!

Frontier's DEN-LAX, DEN-SFO, DEN-MDW, DEN-DCA are not a challenge to United?

Frontier has small ones?

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
ScottB
Posts: 5414
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:17 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 21):
Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 13):
I think you will see DEN-ABQ-ELP again.

Prices are too high and that market can do fairly well when the price is right.

The price isn't right right now.

$75 is too high?

$75 isn't too high, but $254-$324 walk-up is too high. WN's ABQ-MAF refundable fare is $123 including taxes -- and it's only 17 miles shorter than ABQ-DEN. The other thing that ABQ service would do is to open up connecting service to several of Southwest's stations in Texas, like MAF, LBB, AMA, AUS, and HOU.
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 4426
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:49 am

Quoting Phelpsie87 (Reply 29):
Look at the stats, total number of enplaned passengers at COS is up 1.8% from last year.

But COS finished 2005 down from 2004, - 0.4%, in a year when the national number went up 2.5% in 2005 according the ATA.

It looks like COS may have a good year this year but we'll see what happens if WN is going to add 40 flights at DEN.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18114
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:15 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 33):
$75 isn't too high, but $254-$324 walk-up is too high.

He didn't specify walk-up. The statement was very non-specific - that the fares are "not right".

I just got the DEN-ABQ $75 fare for Saturday - okay, $76.50 - and if you can get a walk up on WN for $60, maybe they had seats they couldn't sell. Or do they run 100% l/f DEN/MAF?

Then again, I am never sure if you are quoting round trips or one way. ABQ-MAF would imply one way.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 33):
The other thing that ABQ service would do is to open up connecting service to several of Southwest's stations in Texas, like MAF, LBB, AMA, AUS, and HOU.

Great for Southwest customers. Yay.

But I don't see what that has to do with fares being "not right".

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
phelpsie87
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:41 pm

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:19 am

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 34):
But COS finished 2005 down from 2004, - 0.4%, in a year when the national number went up 2.5% in 2005 according the ATA.

Yeah I was talking about this year, 2006. Compared to 2005, COS is up 1.8%. Besides, is -.04% really that huge? I guess it might be for COS, but WN didn't start service into DEN until late 2005, so for COS to be up this early in the year is a good sign (like you said).

You know what WN should do, start service into COS, hahaha.  duck 
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 4426
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Fri Apr 28, 2006 11:08 am

Quoting Phelpsie87 (Reply 36):
Besides, is -.04% really that huge?

But when the national average was up in 2005, a growing area like COS should have seen some growth. Heck FAT was up 6.5% in 2005 over 2004. And in 2004 FAT was up 6.9% over 2003.

Quoting Phelpsie87 (Reply 36):
You know what WN should do, start service into COS, hahaha.

I've said that for years. Of course I also thought COS should be next in line behind FAT.  

[Edited 2006-04-28 04:09:07]
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
azstar
Posts: 410
Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 5:25 am

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Fri Apr 28, 2006 11:18 am

WN will cream F9 at DEN.
 
phelpsie87
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:41 pm

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Fri Apr 28, 2006 11:42 am

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 37):
But when the national average was up in 2005, a growing area like COS should have seen some growth. Heck FAT was up 6.5% in 2005 over 2004. And in 2004 FAT was up 6.9% over 2003.

Good point sir.

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 37):
I've said that for years. Of course I also thought COS should be next in line behind FAT.

Well, if not WN, maybe F9 should consider COS...who knows.
 
stirling
Posts: 3897
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:00 am

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:30 pm

Quoting Stirling (Reply 28):
And the new terminal addition should be coming on line when?

Not anytime soon...From what I have searched, there is no mention of starting construction on any new terminal. The only thing they are going to do as add two tube gates to Concourse C.

Then I must have been imagining the 5 gates being currently added to Terminal 2.

When these gates come on line, WN will have a lot more room to grow, I am thinking by an additional 50 flghts per day....and new flights to DEN would certainly be expected to be part of that group.

Quoting Phelpsie87 (Reply 29):
Rather, DEN is growing at the expense of COS and to a lesser degree PUB.

Are you serious??

Very.

For the amount of population growth seen in the COS area, growth in airline service has been nonexistant to slim....the trend began long before WN came to DEN, their presence doesn't help.
Delete this User
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18114
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:36 pm

Quoting Azstar (Reply 38):
WN will cream F9 at DEN.

Then please explain Frontier's 81% load factor in March.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:39 pm

I could see WN doing DEN-MSY at some point since F9 flat out abandoned the market. (I talked to a senior manager with F9 at DEN about two weeks ago and he told me that most everyone he knows was "shocked" and "dissapointed" that F9 abandoned New Orleans.)

UA is currently bringing in 2 737's and one A320 per day right now and the flights go out full or oversold every single day.

WN could pick up where F9 left off and steal some market share away from UA in the DEN-MSY market.
 
phelpsie87
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:41 pm

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:08 pm

Quoting Stirling (Reply 40):
Then I must have been imagining the 5 gates being currently added to Terminal 2.

When these gates come on line, WN will have a lot more room to grow, I am thinking by an additional 50 flghts per day....and new flights to DEN would certainly be expected to be part of that group.

What?!? DEN is not adding gates to Concourse B. Even if they were, Concourse B is UAL's, you will not see a WN gate there, PERIOD! Adding gates to B will help UAL, that's it. Concourse C is getting 2 new tube gates, if you don't believe me, check out the link and read the press release.
http://www.flydenver.com/pr/DIAPR_060413_1.pdf

[Edited 2006-04-28 07:15:57]
 
ScottB
Posts: 5414
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:16 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 35):
I just got the DEN-ABQ $75 fare for Saturday - okay, $76.50 - and if you can get a walk up on WN for $60, maybe they had seats they couldn't sell. Or do they run 100% l/f DEN/MAF?

For "a" Saturday or "this" Saturday. The fares I'm seeing from Frontier's own web site (well, actually their Frontier-branded site at Sabre) are all up around $250 for a segment on this coming Saturday. I'm thinking a typical walk-up refundable fare on WN from DEN to ABQ ought to be in the neighborhood of $120-150 one way. And yes, I was speaking of one-way fares when I said Frontier's walk-up fares are in $254-324 one-way (DEN-ABQ) and Southwest's fare is $123 for ABQ-MAF. That fare is good on any seat any day on Southwest between ABQ and MAF unless the flight has been sold out.

I can't speak for the Aggie, but I can say that I don't think walk-up fares in the $0.75-$1/mile range are "right."
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 4426
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:21 pm

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 23):
I couldn't imagine WN would pass on DEN-OAK. OAK is turning out to be the connection complex for Hawaii. Plus, they've retained their Sat. service.



Quoting Stirling (Reply 28):
And the new terminal addition should be coming on line when?



Quoting Phelpsie87 (Reply 29):
Not anytime soon...From what I have searched, there is no mention of starting construction on any new terminal. The only thing they are going to do as add two tube gates to Concourse C.



Quoting Stirling (Reply 40):
Then I must have been imagining the 5 gates being currently added to Terminal 2.



Quoting Phelpsie87 (Reply 43):
What?!? DEN is not adding gates to Concourse B. Even if they were, Concourse B is UAL's, you will not see a WN gate there, PERIOD! Adding gates to B will help UAL, that's it. Concourse C is getting 2 new tube gates, if you don't believe me, check out the link and read the press release.
http://www.flydenver.com/pr/DIAPR_06...1.pdf

I think you 2 are talking about different airports.

Stirling, I think is referring to OAK where there has been a gate shortage. New gates under construction now at Term 2. Gates should open in 2007.
http://www.oaklandairport.com/tex/t2_improvement_project.shtml

Phelpsie87 is talking about DEN.

[Edited 2006-04-28 07:23:16]

[Edited 2006-04-28 07:26:24]
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
phelpsie87
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:41 pm

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:22 pm

Quoting Stirling (Reply 40):
Then I must have been imagining the 5 gates being currently added to Terminal 2.

There is no press release or news article stating this, so yes, I think you are imagining. DEN has the option to add on to A, B, and C, but I have seen nothing that says it is currently happening. DEN recently added (2-3 year's ago) a 38-gate regional jet facility to the east side of Concourse B. Please share your source.
 
phelpsie87
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:41 pm

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:26 pm

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 45):
I think you 2 are talking about different airports.

Stirling, I think is referring to OAK where there has been a gate shortage. New gates under construction now at Term 2. Gates should open in 2007.
http://www.oaklandairport.com/tex/t2_improvement_project.shtml

Phelpsie87 is talking about DEN.

Oh, well....that explains it all then. Thanks FATFlyer! Good call.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18114
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:33 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 44):
For "a" Saturday or "this" Saturday.

I got it for "this" Saturday (29), on Travelocity, just before I made the post.

As to walk up fares and timing, we can all find fares to prove our various points.

I have seen last minute walk-ups DEN-CUN for $250. I have also seen them for $850.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 44):
The fares I'm seeing from Frontier's own web site (well, actually their Frontier-branded site at Sabre)

I don't understand that crack.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 44):
I can't speak for the Aggie, but I can say that I don't think walk-up fares in the $0.75-$1/mile range are "right."

I don't know who Aggie is, sorry.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18114
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: WN Set To Triple Denver Ops

Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:39 pm

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 42):
I talked to a senior manager with F9 at DEN about two weeks ago and he told me that most everyone he knows was "shocked" and "dissapointed" that F9 abandoned New Orleans.

I'm sure everyoine was shocked and disappointed. I know I was.

But those of us who follow Frontier's fortunes were more shocked - and very concerned - by the loss of Cancun as well, immediately before season.

Given that I doubt Frontier could afford to subsidize money losing flights to two devastated resorts, they chose the one where they have numerous flights, an effective focus city, and where they have to protect a fairly large investment.

As opposed to the one where they had a 1 x daily flight, and which was well served by other airlines.

mariner
aeternum nauta