Falcon84
Topic Author
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

CommutAir/CO Ink Deal For CLE Flight Expansion

Tue May 02, 2006 5:28 am

If this has already been discussed, my apologies.

http://atwonline.com/channels/airlineFocus/index.html

(article is in the lower right hand corner of the front page)

Add this to the addition of RegionsAir sometime this year in CLE, and CO will have enhanced service out of it's smallest hub.

I'd like to see mainline/Express expansion, but any additional flights is certainly no negative.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
flyinryan99
Posts: 1432
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 6:54 am

RE: CommutAir/CO Ink Deal For CLE Flight Expansion

Tue May 02, 2006 6:36 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Add this to the addition of RegionsAir sometime this year in CLE, and CO will have enhanced service out of it's smallest hub.

I'd like to see mainline/Express expansion, but any additional flights is certainly no negative.

This is definitely good news. I like the idea of the Q series they are looking at as mentioned in the article. Thing is, if they are going to upgrade feed, they need to increase their mainline seats too so these turbos aren't flying empty.
 
Falcon84
Topic Author
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: CommutAir/CO Ink Deal For CLE Flight Expansion

Tue May 02, 2006 6:45 am

Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 1):
Thing is, if they are going to upgrade feed, they need to increase their mainline seats too so these turbos aren't flying empty.

For at least the summer, CO is adding 3 757-300's out of CLE, leaving within a few minutes of each other around 0900: one to IAH, one to LAX, one to LAS.

Like to see that permanent-like.  Smile
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
flyinryan99
Posts: 1432
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 6:54 am

RE: CommutAir/CO Ink Deal For CLE Flight Expansion

Tue May 02, 2006 6:51 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 2):
For at least the summer, CO is adding 3 757-300's out of CLE, leaving within a few minutes of each other around 0900: one to IAH, one to LAX, one to LAS.

Great!

Does anyone know what time the banks are out of CLE?
 
atct
Posts: 2472
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 6:42 am

RE: CommutAir/CO Ink Deal For CLE Flight Expansion

Tue May 02, 2006 6:57 am

2007 on the Commutair expansion...wow.

We should be in place by then, hopefully we'll be grabbing up a bunch of roots! (Regions Air, Saab 340's).

Good for CO expanding, the more they expand outta CLE, the better my job stability is!!!  Smile

ATCT
Trikes are for kids!
 
Falcon84
Topic Author
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: CommutAir/CO Ink Deal For CLE Flight Expansion

Tue May 02, 2006 7:03 am

Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 3):
Does anyone know what time the banks are out of CLE?

On Mon/Thur/Fri the full banks are 9am/1130am/1pm/330pm/5pm/700pm/9pm. There are scattered flights before 9am.

On Tues/Wed, get rid of the 1130 and 1pm banks.

On Saturday, there are 3 "mega-banks", if you will, at 9am, 1pm and 5-6pm.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13812
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: CommutAir/CO Ink Deal For CLE Flight Expansion

Tue May 02, 2006 7:04 am

And good that CO is moving back to rational feeder service that isn't overly loaded on ERJs. The draw of "all jet" service hasn't translated into profits for the airlines.

For the shorter Midwest hops out of CLE, ERJs make very little sense money wise. I would assume if Q's come into the fleet, you'll see them to DAY, CMH, CVG, etc.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
joeman
Posts: 661
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:55 am

RE: CommutAir/CO Ink Deal For CLE Flight Expansion

Tue May 02, 2006 8:41 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 6):
And good that CO is moving back to rational feeder service that isn't overly loaded on ERJs. The draw of "all jet" service hasn't translated into profits for the airlines.

For the shorter Midwest hops out of CLE, ERJs make very little sense money wise. I would assume if Q's come into the fleet, you'll see them to DAY, CMH, CVG, etc.

Would CommutAir expansion mean Express reduction?
 
ncflyer
Posts: 508
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

RE: CommutAir/CO Ink Deal For CLE Flight Expansion

Tue May 02, 2006 8:45 am

hmmm, they're already flying props to DTW, PIT, and CVG, why not downgrade more markets like CMH, DAY, IND. Until they announce the markets, I'm not considering this an expansion. I know I'm a persistent bear on CLE airport outlook but the economy here just is el-stinko-- it is a different country from every where else. Houses in my neighborhood have been on the market for over 2 years.
 
joeman
Posts: 661
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:55 am

RE: CommutAir/CO Ink Deal For CLE Flight Expansion

Tue May 02, 2006 8:56 am

Quoting Ncflyer (Reply 8):
Houses in my neighborhood have been on the market for over 2 years.

Not in my neighborhood
 
masseybrown
Posts: 4493
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: CommutAir/CO Ink Deal For CLE Flight Expansion

Tue May 02, 2006 10:51 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 6):
For the shorter Midwest hops out of CLE, ERJs make very little sense money wise.

Did you see the numbers CO reported this afternoon?

http://www.continental.com/vendors/d...20476F8744941BC9F3A8C2&s=&i=PRNews

Consolidated RASM up more than mainline RASM and consolidated load factor just slightly lower than mainline. That says to me that CO is finally starting to make money from the Express flights again.

Quoting Joeman (Reply 7):
Would CommutAir expansion mean Express reduction?

Not necessarily. The B1900s are not the most popular aircraft with the average passenger. Optimistically, the Saabs or Dash8s would replace the Beeches and perhaps expand into additional cities: back to AZO, MBS, etc. Pessimistically, if CO is going to take back 69 planes from Expressjet, Expressjet will have to shrink somewhere. And CLE is probably where they will look first.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13812
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: CommutAir/CO Ink Deal For CLE Flight Expansion

Tue May 02, 2006 3:02 pm

While RASM is higher on the ERJs because they often serve limited markets that otherwise wouldn't get service, CASM is also higher on them because of the economics of the jet but also the support of that small station.

You must also remember that they've been using ERJs on very long routes which will help with the CASM on them, but that doesn't change the poor economics on very short routes like DAY-CLE or CRP-IAH.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
masseybrown
Posts: 4493
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: CommutAir/CO Ink Deal For CLE Flight Expansion

Wed May 03, 2006 12:29 am

Ikramerica, I just typed in a CLE-DAY round trip for 4-5 May and CO's fare was $1,148. I have a feeling the breakeven load factor on THAT plane is about 2 passengers!

Presumably, nobody pays that fare. Still, a more reasonable fare of say - $300 round trip, which might actually attract some passengers, is still more than $1 a mile for the 141nm trip and should allow a profit, no?
 
Falcon84
Topic Author
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: CommutAir/CO Ink Deal For CLE Flight Expansion

Wed May 03, 2006 6:48 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 12):
Ikramerica, I just typed in a CLE-DAY round trip for 4-5 May and CO's fare was $1,148. I have a feeling the breakeven load factor on THAT plane is about 2 passengers!

Presumably, nobody pays that fare.

True, because most people going to DAY or CMH are connecting inbound, not originating in CLE-obviously.  Smile
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13812
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: CommutAir/CO Ink Deal For CLE Flight Expansion

Wed May 03, 2006 9:38 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 13):
True, because most people going to DAY or CMH are connecting inbound, not originating in CLE-obviously.

Especially CMH.

CO doesn't run last minute cheep shuttle flights between CMH or DAY and CLE as a business model, especially a midweek flight without saturday stay over.

They provide connections into DAY and CMH (and CVG) from CLE.

And the CASM of putting you on two short hop ERJ flights through CLE is higher than putting you on two Q flights instead. Especially with the ERJ135s they fly on these routes.

ERJs have their place though, and CO is starting to wise up to that. 1.5 to 2.5 hour flights, either as the only type on the route, or as an added frequency for a more popular route.

Of course, customers aren't too happy with the 2.5 hour ERJ flights vs. mainline (or the 3+ hour flights they do to the west, ick), but that's the bed CO made for now. But it does connect CLE to some further flung destinations that they otherwise wouldn't be serving non-stop. Same with IAH.

Hopefully they'll be able to work a scope clause for some EJets in the future.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
N766UA
Posts: 7843
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

RE: CommutAir/CO Ink Deal For CLE Flight Expansion

Wed May 03, 2006 9:51 am

Where in the heck is the article?
This Website Censors Me
 
joeman
Posts: 661
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:55 am

RE: CommutAir/CO Ink Deal For CLE Flight Expansion

Wed May 03, 2006 2:26 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 15):
Where in the heck is the article?

See below:

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
If this has already been discussed, my apologies.

http://atwonline.com/channels/airlineFocus/index.html

(article is in the lower right hand corner of the front page)
 
masseybrown
Posts: 4493
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: CommutAir/CO Ink Deal For CLE Flight Expansion

Wed May 03, 2006 2:30 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 15):
Where in the heck is the article?

I guess Falcon's link is now broken. Here's a new one:

http://atwonline.com/news/other.html?issueDate=5%2F1%2F2006
 
masseybrown
Posts: 4493
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: CommutAir/CO Ink Deal For CLE Flight Expansion

Thu May 18, 2006 1:20 am

CommutAir has a press release on their website

http://www.commutair.com/announce.html

that says they will expand from 10 to 16 cities out of CLE. (It's also noteworthy that their ALB "hub" is gone.) I can easily think of 6 ERJ-served cities that could be converted to turboprop flying. How about IND, DAY, CMH, GRR, BUF, and YYZ? CO either has no competition or, in the case of YYZ, the competition is already flying Dash8s.

When this thread was first started, I could think of new cities as a possibility; but with XJT taking 69 planes, I now think it will be all XJT-replacement flying.
 
cle757
Posts: 798
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:28 am

RE: CommutAir/CO Ink Deal For CLE Flight Expansion

Thu May 18, 2006 2:42 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 18):
How about IND, DAY, CMH, GRR, BUF, and YYZ? CO either has no competition or, in the case of YYZ, the competition is already flying Dash8s.

With the exception of BUF, I dont think CO would want to go to props on these routes, They all are very full most of the time.
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
N766UA
Posts: 7843
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

RE: CommutAir/CO Ink Deal For CLE Flight Expansion

Thu May 18, 2006 2:56 am

Commutair Beeches, RegionsAir Saabs... and now a bigger prop type for Commutair... methinks CO is regretting going all jet at CLE! (And everywhere else for the matter.)
This Website Censors Me
 
redngold
Posts: 6673
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: CommutAir/CO Ink Deal For CLE Flight Expansion

Thu May 18, 2006 8:12 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 18):
How about IND, DAY, CMH, GRR, BUF, and YYZ?

I wouldn't downgrade CMH or YYZ... Those are heavy business routes and the competition doesn't provide jet service.

It will be nice to see the Saabs again. I used to like watching them come in from PIT (operated at that time by ShuttleAmerica dba USAirways Express.)


redngold
Up, up and away!
 
joeman
Posts: 661
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:55 am

RE: CommutAir/CO Ink Deal For CLE Flight Expansion

Thu May 18, 2006 8:18 am

Quoting N766UA (Reply 20):
Commutair Beeches, RegionsAir Saabs... and now a bigger prop type for Commutair... methinks CO is regretting going all jet at CLE! (And everywhere else for the matter.)

That was underscored a few years ago when CO actually made CLE ALL-jet and chopped smaller city feed flights like Toledo. Most of them and a couple extra's like Elmira/Corning eventually returned using the Beech 1900's.
 
atct
Posts: 2472
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 6:42 am

RE: CommutAir/CO Ink Deal For CLE Flight Expansion

Thu May 18, 2006 8:32 am

Quoting N766UA (Reply 20):
Commutair Beeches, RegionsAir Saabs... and now a bigger prop type for Commutair... methinks CO is regretting going all jet at CLE! (And everywhere else for the matter.)

Yea same here. Its just not practical to run a 50 seater on CLE-PIT or CLE-MDT etc.


ATCT
Trikes are for kids!

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos