ghost77
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AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Fri May 05, 2006 5:45 am

AM eff June 4th 06 will pull out of ATL as a consequence of...??? It's 3 daily flights will be cx!! I don't what will be of CUN-ATL's... but most probably it will also be cx... this for sure is done in order to help and give more incomes and better LF's on routes to DL....!!!

g77 APM
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Fri May 05, 2006 5:59 am

Well, DL gave up LAX-MEX in favor of codesharing with AM, maybe it was payback time  Silly . Still, certainly not pleasant news to see AM leave ATL. As if that airport wasn't lacking exotic carriers anyway.
 
flight777
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RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Fri May 05, 2006 6:13 am

For the "busiest" airport in the US and therefore maybe the world, I just don't understand why ATL can't get more international carriers. I live in Augusta, GA about a good 2 hour drive east of ATL and love going to the airport when in town. They advertise that ATL is in an ideal US location, only 2-3 hours from anywhere so why no more international carriers other then BA, LH, SA (not much longer), etc. They also have a fairly decent cargo base. Anyway, just my 2 cents!!
 
db373
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RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Fri May 05, 2006 7:50 am

Quoting Flight777 (Reply 2):
For the "busiest" airport in the US and therefore maybe the world, I just don't understand why ATL can't get more international carriers

It's called Delta
Keep Delta My Delta
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Fri May 05, 2006 8:03 am

AM gave up on a SLC-MEX run as well and they are a SkyTeam codeshare partner with DL. Word has it that DL's next Mexico flight from SLC will be to MEX. Go figure!
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
srbmod
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RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Fri May 05, 2006 8:09 am

Quoting Ghost77 (Thread starter):
I don't what will be of CUN-ATL's..

Perhaps FL will announce a start date for their previously awarded traffic rights on the route in the near future then (Was supposed to have started Dec. 15, 2005, but was postponed due to Wilma).
 
B4REAL
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RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Fri May 05, 2006 8:10 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 4):
AM gave up on a SLC-MEX run as well and they are a SkyTeam codeshare partner with DL. Word has it that DL's next Mexico flight from SLC will be to MEX. Go figure!

That would not surprise me, but I have long drooled of CVG-MEX on DL. Preferably MD-90 equipment.

MEX must not have the best yields among Mexico markets, that or it is overserved.
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
tu154m
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RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Fri May 05, 2006 8:10 am

Yep.........June sees both Aeromexico and SAA leaving ATL. SAA is done June 30th I believe. Sad.........but in reality, if DL didn't fly to FRA, LGW, AMS and CDG, I bet AF, BA, KL, and LH wouldn't serve ATL.
CEOs should swim with cement flippers!
 
B4REAL
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RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Fri May 05, 2006 8:11 am

Quoting Tu154m (Reply 7):
Sad.........but in reality, if DL didn't fly to FRA, LGW, AMS and CDG, I bet AF, BA, KL, and LH wouldn't serve ATL.

I disagree with you on that one. ATL would easily pull in CDG, LGW, and FRA without DL. AMS, ICN, and NRT I would agree with you, however.
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
tu154m
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RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Fri May 05, 2006 8:21 am

Quoting B4real (Reply 8):
I disagree with you on that one. ATL would easily pull in CDG, LGW, and FRA without DL. AMS, ICN, and NRT I would agree with you, however.

Could be right. But I still think ATL is ATL becuase of DL. If they were to stop/disappear/etc I think ATL would just be a medium sized airport, similar to say CLT, PHX or the like. The city of Atlanta's businesses have taken a hit recently, with GM, Ford, and 2 US bases closing. Also, BellSouth is getting bought by AT&T so that may or may not go. I bet alot of companies with foreign ties would route their employees out of ATL on one of the US carriers into a larger city like ORD, JFK, or IAD that supports international traffic without a single dominant carrier. Also, remember that AF only tarted ATL after the hooked up with DL.
CEOs should swim with cement flippers!
 
EddieDude
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RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Fri May 05, 2006 8:57 am

I noticed while looking for flights in September to Europe that AM was no longer sending its planes to ATL. I think this is a big mistake because the extensive codeshare agreement between AM and DL guaranteed good loads to AM in the MEX-ATL route. Any chance DL will do more than 3 daily flights with AM out of this route?

Quoting Ghost77 (Thread starter):
this for sure is done in order to help and give more incomes and better LF's on routes to DL....!

Since when is AM a charity institution? If this is the actual reason, then AM deserves to never do well. The aviation industry is a business, not a tea party.

I hope this is only a seasonal change due to fleet utilization issues or exploration of new routes and schedules.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
ghost77
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RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Fri May 05, 2006 9:18 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 10):
Since when is AM a charity institution? If this is the actual reason, then AM deserves to never do well. The aviation industry is a business, not a tea party.

Its reciprocity and charity from DL to AM and viceversa. AM pulled out from SLC in favor of DL, soon DL is to start MEX from SLC and same thing as DL pulled out from LAX in favor of AM. More over, flying to Europe via ATL it isn't what it used to be before 9/11 (total security hassle, nothing else for those who have visa), I flew before and after with AM/DL to Europe via ATL&JFK and sure it wasn't the same, also, during the last years, the number of flights, frequencies and even airlines from Mexico to Europe have increased a lot lately and I think it will continue to do so. Even MTY and TLC have direct links to MAD now!

g77 APM
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
juventus
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RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Fri May 05, 2006 9:55 am

What a shame..I used to think that ATL deserved a second Mexican carrier, and look what happened. Sad news from my point of view.
 
ghost77
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RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Fri May 05, 2006 10:14 am

Quoting Juventus (Reply 12):
What a shame..I used to think that ATL deserved a second Mexican carrier, and look what happened. Sad news from my point of view.

It's DL, trust me on this one, if you want to of course... on a side note, perhaps MX could give it a try, or even 6A from MTY!

g77 APM
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
LatinPlane
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RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Fri May 05, 2006 10:48 am

Wow, this is really strange!

I just don't understand it. Even well after 9/11, AM was sending 757s to ATL since there is still quite a large demand for travel between the South and Mexico via ATL.

It will be sad not to see the Mexican birds at ATL!

Nonetheless, I believe that AM will be back in the next few years, even if DL is there or not.

 Smile LatinPlane
Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
md90fan
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RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Fri May 05, 2006 10:57 am

Pretty sad, ATL's int'l terminal/concourse will look pretty boring with AM and SAA out.

ATL was also supposed to be one of AM's first 737-800 routes.
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
JAVOMD88
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RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Fri May 05, 2006 11:18 am

Hi guys!

AM was asked through Skyteam to drop ATL because of DLs terrible financial situation!

There seems to be some loyal law in skyteams rules to help out between carriers in these types of situations!

First DL changed around some itineraries and bumped AMs, then they downgraded there flights from a 757 to a 737. Now to survive they need the route, WOW.

Seeya!

javo737ng.
aeromexico.....the only true carrier of mexico
 
SESGDL
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RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Fri May 05, 2006 11:29 am

ATL still gets a good number of international carries: KL, BA, LH, AF, JM, KE, and AC. Not to mention all the cargo carriers who fly to ATL. Come to MSP and see what we deal with, then people can complain.

Jeremy
 
steeler83
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RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Fri May 05, 2006 11:35 am

Quoting Db373 (Reply 3):
It's called Delta

Damn you, that was going to be my response  Wink  laughing 

So this is the world's busiest airport. Given that, I thought that there would be other carriers there from every continent and there is not. I guess that is because DL is so frigging big there, with some 1,000 daily flights to pretty much everywhere... Hubs are good for luring in international carriers to do international routes, but I guess when you have such an overpowering, dominant hub like DL has in ATL, it's impossible for anyone to come in and start service to a given location. So it looks like no foreign carriers want to go to cities like CLE or PIT because the hubs there are far too small, and they don't like ATL because it's too big. Look at hub airports like in JFK, ORD, and LAX. Those airports have a nice sized AA, UA, both hub, but not overwhelming, and they have well over a dozen foreign carriers serving those airports... Just my assumption here; it's probably false and even more false...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
md90fan
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RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Fri May 05, 2006 11:45 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 18):
CLE or PIT

Quick fix  Smile
-CLE: CO hub
-PIT:US focus city
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
misbeehavin
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RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Fri May 05, 2006 12:21 pm

Quoting Flight777 (Reply 2):
For the "busiest" airport in the US and therefore maybe the world, I just don't understand why ATL can't get more international carriers

As was already mentioned, it's called Delta!

Still, I am always amazed with the sheer scale of Delta's operation. And the domnance over the world's busiest airport is just amazing.

It is a pity that ATL hardly has any international carriers other than the usual suspects (AF, BA, KL, LH) and a couple of others. But that's just to do with the fact that without Delta, ATL is almost nothing.
 
SESGDL
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RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Fri May 05, 2006 12:35 pm

Quoting Misbeehavin (Reply 20):
But that's just to do with the fact that without Delta, ATL is almost nothing.

Wrong. I do recall FL having over 300 daily flights at ATL. ATL also used to be the largest hub of Eastern Airlines. Even without DL ATL would remain one of the world's busiest airports due to such heavy O&D traffic. ATL-MIA/FLL, ATL-NYC, ATL-D.C., and ATL-LAX are some of the busiest O&D routes in the country.

Jeremy
 
adriaticus
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RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Fri May 05, 2006 1:33 pm

Quoting Ghost77 (Thread starter):
It's 3 daily flights will be cx

AM has only 1 flight a day on AM metal: AM600 MEX 1000 ATL 1420; sometimes on B752, sometimes on M80. Their 3 other flights are codeshares on DL metal: AM 5450, 5522, and 5094, all flown on DL's B738.

Quoting B4real (Reply 6):
I have long drooled of CVG-MEX on DL. Preferably MD-90 equipment.

DL will be upgrading ints three daily runs to B752.

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 13):
perhaps MX could give it a try, or even 6A from MTY!

Unless a carrier has good codesharing connections with DL, there is no point in flying to ATL. O&D traffic between MEX and ATL is minimal.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 1):
Well, DL gave up LAX-MEX in favor of codesharing with AM, maybe it was payback time

Kind of... AM gets very good prices in its codesharing deals with DL - plus AM handles all DL's pax between LAX-MEX, LAX-LIM and MIA-MEX, plus all the connections within Mexico.

Quoting Javomd88 (Reply 16):
AM was asked through Skyteam to drop ATL because of DLs terrible financial situation!

There seems to be some loyal law in skyteams rules to help out between carriers in these types of situations!

Interesting... Care to name your source?

Anyway, the systems show 3x B752 flights/day... 543 seats/day each way, whereas the current offering 3x B738 (w/150) plus a 142-seat M80 OR a 181-seat B752, make 592 or 631 seats... An 8 to 10% seat offering reduction is not a big difference, and it indeed brings a more rational use of resources... especially considering AM will get rid of all station-related expenses, salaries, GSE, rentals, crew overnight stays, etc.

I believe it is a good move for both. Actually, IMHO AM will be benefiting the most in the long run given the current state of affairs...

__Ad.
A300/18/19/20/21 B721/2 B732/3/G/8 B741/2/4 B752 B762/3/4 B772/3 DC8/9/10 MD11 TU134/154 IL62/86 An24 SA340/2000 E45/90
 
wilax
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RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Fri May 05, 2006 1:38 pm

I think that ATL's lack of int'l appeal could be it's location. From Europe, it is out of the way for connections to the US versus NYC or BOS. From Asia it would be good only for connections to Florida, but LAX and SFO can easily handle those. From Latin America, why overfly MIA which is the major Latin O&D spot. Other US cities with major Int'l traffic have tons of connecting traffic while ATL's would be mostly O&D. ATL is alot like DFW, IAH, or DEN; all big cities with major hubs but with anemic International traffic.
 
INTENSS
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RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Fri May 05, 2006 4:43 pm

Alot of people here are missing the very basics. The reason NYC, LA, and Chicago get alot of international carriers is because they are BIG cities with large numbers of foreign and affluent people who fly abroad. Atlanta isn't exactly a mecca for immigrants from [insert foreign destination here].

Quoting Misbeehavin (Reply 20):
And the dominance over the world's busiest airport is just amazing.

The reason ATL is the world's busiest airport is because of Delta, not the other way around. Although, being the only large airport in the area doesn't hurt either.

Pan Am also serves CUN from ATL twice a week...


-Rich

[Edited 2006-05-05 09:55:12]
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Fri May 05, 2006 5:12 pm

Quoting Javomd88 (Reply 16):
AM was asked through Skyteam to drop ATL because of DLs terrible financial situation!

There seems to be some loyal law in skyteams rules to help out between carriers in these types of situations!

If that were the case, AF would be gone off CDG-ATL/CVG, KL off AMS-ATL, CO out of ATL, CVG and SLC, and DL and AZ would draw straws over JFK-MXP/FCO to decide whose financials are worse and hence should serve the route exclusively...

Quoting INTENSS (Reply 24):
Pan Am also serves CUN from ATL twice a week...

Though that probably won't last long anyway  Wink .

What also should be noted is that during the summer, there will actually be more seats available on a daily basis on ATL-CUN than on ATL-MEX, probably for the first time ever. 3 757s to MEX vs 2 757s and 2 738s to CUN.
 
767-332ER
Posts: 1974
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RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Fri May 05, 2006 6:56 pm

Quoting Tu154m (Reply 7):
Yep.........June sees both Aeromexico and SAA leaving ATL. SAA is done June 30th I believe. Sad.........but in reality, if DL didn't fly to FRA, LGW, AMS and CDG, I bet AF, BA, KL, and LH wouldn't serve ATL.

I suppose you do not know that ATL happens to be one of the top O&D markets in the U.S. If you don't believe me, go and check out the lines for the security check-point at certain times of the day.
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
 
INTENSS
Posts: 310
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RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Fri May 05, 2006 7:16 pm

Quoting 767-332ER (Reply 26):
I suppose you do not know that ATL happens to be one of the top O&D markets in the U.S. If you don't believe me, go and check out the lines for the security check-point at certain times of the day.

Now we're defining O&D numbers by the length of the security check-in line?

They're long because they're designed around an antiquated choke point check-in system.


-Rich
 
jasoncrh
Posts: 362
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Fri May 05, 2006 8:26 pm

Quoting Wilax (Reply 23):



Quoting Wilax (Reply 23):
ATL is alot like DFW, IAH, or DEN; all big cities with major hubs but with anemic International traffic.

i wouldnt exactly call IAH's international traffic "anemic". For better or worse, today's oil industry economy makes traffic out of IAH to international destinations in Canada and Europe extremely large and lucrative. Witness three daily flights on BA to London (including one via ORD to LHR, almost exclusively for connections to Lagos), increased KLM service, increased CO service, etc.
 
767-332ER
Posts: 1974
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2001 1:20 pm

RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Fri May 05, 2006 11:05 pm

Quoting INTENSS (Reply 27):
Now we're defining O&D numbers by the length of the security check-in line?

They're long because they're designed around an antiquated choke point check-in system.


-Rich

And maybe because as of 2002 ATL was the second largest O&D area in the country.

I couldn't find the exact link in the BTS data pile that they have (a bit unorganized I thought), but this is taken from fellow a.netter Concordeboy and his source:

2002 Aviation AeroSpace Almanac: Lampl, Richard; McGraw-Hill, NY, NY:
USA's top 10 airports ranked by gross O&D pax*:
1) LAX
2) ATL
3) ORD
4) LAS
5) MCO
6) SFO
7) LGA
8) PHX
9) DFW
10) EWR

Again, ATL is the unofficial capital of one of the world's largest economy.

[Edited 2006-05-05 16:06:15]
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
 
globalflyer
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RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Fri May 05, 2006 11:33 pm

I hate this! I was hoping we would see all Skyteam carriers fly to ATL, but it appears this will never be the case!  Sad

Not that there is anything wrong with Delta. I put over 130,000 miles on them last year alone, but it is fun to sample other carriers. I often take BA and KL out of ATL and their service is great. Just wish we would see more variety in ATL.

I guess that the only new carrier that is slated to start service to ATL is VH now that the politics between US and Venezuela are eased (at least in terms of aviation). Anyone know of any other new carriers?

June will be a sad month with the loss of AM and SA
Landing on every Continent almost on an annual basis!
 
steeler83
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Fri May 05, 2006 11:45 pm

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 19):
-CLE: CO hub
-PIT:US focus city

CLE is a rather small hub with some 220 or 240 flights, and the designation of PIT is focus city/secondary hub, according to US spokesmen anyway...

I know that PIT is no longer a "Hub" hub, with some 250+ daily flights with tons of regional feed and numerous mainline connections, but it still has a sizeable presence at PIT with 175 flights or so. It's still the number 1 carrier at the airport, pax wise, with a 300,000 pax margin between them and WN...

I think this time next year, we should start to see pax for all airlines, US included, start to increase. US is not going to cut anymore service from that airport, and with the addition of LCCs to bring low fares to the airport, especially with US cutting their fares out of the airport, O&D should continue to increase, andd therefore pax should increase as well. I think better days are ahead for PIT... Now... back to AM in/leaving ATL  Smile
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
ghost77
Posts: 4461
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Sat May 06, 2006 2:46 am

Quoting Adriaticus (Reply 22):
AM has only 1 flight a day on AM metal: AM600 MEX 1000 ATL 1420; sometimes on B752, sometimes on M80. Their 3 other flights are codeshares on DL metal: AM 5450, 5522, and 5094, all flown on DL's B738.

Oh! I didn't knew that! IIRC, once not long ago AM had 3X; 2, B752 sometimes 1 B752 and MD80 and 1; MD87 (from CUN) plus 2 DL B752s to MEX. It was 4X by AM and DL from ATL. Now it will be reduced to 2X with B752. Hopefully DL send us its B767s as they do during the high seasons!

g77 APM
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:47 am

RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Sat May 06, 2006 3:47 am

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 32):
Now it will be reduced to 2X with B752.

It will actually be 3x 757.

Quoting Globalflyer (Reply 30):
Anyone know of any other new carriers?

Alitialia always comes up again, though whether that will actually happen, I doubt it. At least freight carriers like Cathay Pacific increase their presence at ATL. No pax planes, sure, but at least it's something.
 
767-332ER
Posts: 1974
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2001 1:20 pm

RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Sat May 06, 2006 3:49 am

I think its a good idea as long as DL can lock in the passengers and not loose any to the other alliances. Skyteam is putting great effort in DL by doing so, because yes, these Mexican routes from ATL are money makers, so time for DL to capitalize on the "charity."
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24597
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Sat May 06, 2006 4:43 am

Quoting B4real (Reply 6):

MEX must not have the best yields among Mexico markets, that or it is overserved.

On the contrary, it probably has the best, though it is a business market, not one filled with low-yielding Cancun tourists. Not as a dense a market as vacation destinations, but higher yielding for sure.

Quoting 767-332ER (Reply 29):

And maybe because as of 2002 ATL was the second largest O&D area in the country.

Area? Try airport. When you combine the multiple airports in multiple-airport areas, like New York City, Miami, San Fran, Houston, Chicago, etc., then ATL is no longer on top.
a.
 
USPIT10L
Posts: 1870
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:24 am

RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Sat May 06, 2006 4:48 am

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 19):
-CLE: CO hub
-PIT:US focus city

The last time a foreign carrier had transatlantic service to PIT, it WAS a hub, back in 1999. BA pulled out on October 31, 1999.
It's a Great Day for Hockey!
 
767-332ER
Posts: 1974
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2001 1:20 pm

RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Sat May 06, 2006 5:56 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 35):
Area? Try airport. When you combine the multiple airports in multiple-airport areas, like New York City, Miami, San Fran, Houston, Chicago, etc., then ATL is no longer on top.

Alright, but out of the areas listed, I would put only New York City ahead based on the airports listed.

NYC-LGA, JFK & EWR

Now for the rest, I would hardly say that the following areas along with the listed airports would come out ahead of ATL.

HOU-IAH & HOU, HOU generates very small traffic in comparison to make a difference.
MIA-MIA & what other area airport would you add on there? If you're adding all of South Florida, including FLL, PBI & RSW then possibly, but I don't think you can justify adding those airports as airports.
Chicago-Possibly when adding MDW to ORD.
San Francisco-SFO is in the top ten, but how much would OAK's traffic add to that?

That would really be about it for the areas.

People also forget the amount of people that actually travel to airports such as Birmingham and Nashville to hop on WN flights or to connect to other low-cost carriers that do not serve ATL. Having a DL hub has been beneficial for ATL, but also it keeps an amount of carriers flying from ATL that would otherwise attract more passengers to this airport.
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2615
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Sat May 06, 2006 6:14 am

In terms of the largest O&D markets, the list for 2005 looked something like this:

1) New York City/Newark
2) Los Angeles Area
3) Chicago
4) Washington, D.C./Baltimore
5) Miami/Ft. Lauderdale/West Palm Beach
6) Orlando
7) Las Vegas
8) San Francisco/Oakland/San Jose
9) Boston
10) Atlanta
11) Philadelphia
12) Dallas/Ft. Worth

I don't recall what the exact numbers were, but the top 4 are correct. Atlanta is one of the top 10 O&D markets though, larger than Houston, Phoenix, and Seattle/Tacoma which are comparable in size. I'll look for the actual numbers.

Jeremy
 
rojo
Posts: 2257
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RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Sat May 06, 2006 8:06 am

Too bad to hear that AM will drop ATL. DL customer service sucks. On my last flight MEX-ATL, I was booked for the 3:50pm flight, but my brother was flying the 7:00am flight. I took him to the airport at 5:50am and decided to get my boarding pass so I won't have to make a line when I return to the airport (I have done this with AA, CO, UA, AM and MX and never had a problem. AA and CO even issues my boarding pass the day before in one of their Mexico City ticket offices). The lady working the check in counter told me that she couldn't issue my boarding pass, because her system does not allow it. I told her that it couldn't be possible, since this is a common practice in any DL station in the USA. They even have common check in counters for all DL flight no matter the departure time as long as it is for the same day. Well, she told me that MEX was not the case and that I would have to wait until 10:00am when the DL CSR's arrived. I asked her if she wasn't a CSR for DL even when she had a DL uniform on and she said NO in a rude manner.
 
767-332ER
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RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Sat May 06, 2006 8:50 am

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 38):
In terms of the largest O&D markets, the list for 2005 looked something like this:

1) New York City/Newark
2) Los Angeles Area
3) Chicago
4) Washington, D.C./Baltimore
5) Miami/Ft. Lauderdale/West Palm Beach
6) Orlando
7) Las Vegas
8) San Francisco/Oakland/San Jose
9) Boston
10) Atlanta
11) Philadelphia
12) Dallas/Ft. Worth

I don't recall what the exact numbers were, but the top 4 are correct. Atlanta is one of the top 10 O&D markets though, larger than Houston, Phoenix, and Seattle/Tacoma which are comparable in size. I'll look for the actual numbers.

Jeremy

Jeremy, let me know where you find these numbers...I just couldn't find anything after trying to sift thru BTS data...and I couldn't think of any other reliable source that would have this information readily available.
Thanks buddy
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Sat May 06, 2006 10:38 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 18):
Look at hub airports like in JFK, ORD, and LAX. Those airports have a nice sized AA, UA, both hub, but not overwhelming, and they have well over a dozen foreign carriers serving those airports...

It's called O&D traffic! New York City, Los Angeles and Chicago represent the three largest population centers in the USA. While Atlanta is in the top 10 O&D as a couple of other posters pointed out above, NYC and LA are the gateways to the USA, much like Toronto and Vancouver are to the Canuck's. But even the size of a population center can be deceiving for O&D traffic. Take Seattle (SEA) and Vancouver (YVR), while Seattle may be about 40% bigger population wise than Vancouver and is only 153 miles (Airport highway distance) but notice how many more International carriers fly into YVR when compared to Sea-Tac. Even though Sea-Tac probably has 5-10 million more PAX per year. It's called the 49th!
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
INTENSS
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RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Sat May 06, 2006 1:31 pm

Quoting 767-332ER (Reply 29):
And maybe because as of 2002 ATL was the second largest O&D area in the country.

This has already been rebutted, but I'll add that this info is incorrect (as an area). No more misleading statistics, please.

Quoting 767-332ER (Reply 29):
Again, ATL is the unofficial capital of one of the world's largest economy.

And this economy would be......? The South?

We're talking international figures here. Not only do the other larger metro areas (NYC, LA, Chicago, South Florida, etc..) have larger populations but they also bring in more international tourism and familes than Atlanta. Once again, Atlanta isn't a hot bed of international O&D traffic.....the airport has alot because of Delta's transitting traffic. With no feed from Delta (Skyteam members) Atlanta is not worth flying to internationally.


-Rich

[Edited 2006-05-06 06:32:33]
 
767-332ER
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RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Sat May 06, 2006 3:24 pm

Quoting INTENSS (Reply 42):
Quoting 767-332ER (Reply 29):
And maybe because as of 2002 ATL was the second largest O&D area in the country.

This has already been rebutted, but I'll add that this info is incorrect (as an area). No more misleading statistics, please.

Quoting 767-332ER (Reply 29):
Again, ATL is the unofficial capital of one of the world's largest economy.

And this economy would be......? The South?

We're talking international figures here. Not only do the other larger metro areas (NYC, LA, Chicago, South Florida, etc..) have larger populations but they also bring in more international tourism and familes than Atlanta. Once again, Atlanta isn't a hot bed of international O&D traffic.....the airport has alot because of Delta's transitting traffic. With no feed from Delta (Skyteam members) Atlanta is not worth flying to internationally.


-Rich

None of the provided stats were incorrect, so if you have a problem with them, keep it to yourself or don't post. Yes, my statement on area was off, as I meant airport, and Jeremy backed the area's O&D traffic continuing in the top 10.

Yes, the economy I am referring to is the Southern U.S. economy.

You fail to notice that these metro areas represent a conglomeration of numerous cities (NYC includes New York, New Jersey, and the greater NY area cities; South Florida includes Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, all the way up to West Palm Beach; Los Angeles includes Burbank, Long Beach, etc,...etc...) which is why its outstanding that ATL with only the city of ATL with its businesses continues to be listed in the top 10 O&D AREAS in the country.

It is the fact that Delta has such a large presence that this city does not see a large number of international carriers. This presence is intimidating and locks everyone out. ATL's location in regards to geographical area, the city's weather and airport's low operating costs are very attractive to airlines outside of Skyteam, however, in today's day of alliances, you will simply not see them going to ATL. Look at SAA as a prime example...one of their most profitable int'l routes was JNB-ATL, the only reason why they pulled out in favor of IAD was the entrance into Star.
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
 
INTENSS
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RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Sat May 06, 2006 6:16 pm

Quoting 767-332ER (Reply 43):
You fail to notice that these metro areas represent a conglomeration of numerous cities

I didn't fail to notice anything. Those other cities have MUCH larger numbers of foreigners and international tourists. You seem to be missing this key ingredient to international pax numbers....(besides the fact that some of these other areas have much larger numbers of international businesses).

Quoting 767-332ER (Reply 43):
It is the fact that Delta has such a large presence that this city does not see a large number of international carriers. This presence is intimidating and locks everyone out.

This is absolutely incorrect. Atlanta is lucky to get their destinations through Delta because of their use of an international hub there. The airport might get another int'l airline or two, but in no way would make up for the loss of routes Delta currently has there.

-Rich
 
JAVOMD88
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RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Sat May 06, 2006 9:48 pm

Adriaticus,

Source:

AM Station Manager for ATL/at Skyteam monthly meeting Mid-March.

He was told at that meeting that by September the flight would be axed, but looks like things moved up a noch!

Seeya

javo737ng.
aeromexico.....the only true carrier of mexico
 
adriaticus
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RE: AeroMexico Bye Bye ATL!

Sat May 06, 2006 10:04 pm

Quoting Javomd88 (Reply 45):
AM Station Manager for ATL/at Skyteam monthly meeting Mid-March.

Wow! Thanks... So there IS more to the SkyTeam alliance than codesharing and keeping up quality standards; it is a support network as well!!

It must have been pretty nasty for your contact to get to know his job was about to dissappear like that... Anyway, together with his job, there go those of several others in his station plus all related lease/equipment/operation expenses, plus the expense related to the overnight stay of the crew (why all those resources for catering to a single flight a day? AM600). They will still sell tickets to/from ATL and make a profit of it without the station expenses. All in all, AM's financials will make a lot more sense, and the freed-up a/c will serve for its expansion plans elsewhere.

And by the way, this will also help optimize DL's financials in the ATL-MEX route - which accoriding to a good source within DL comptrollership, remains roundtrip profitable for both carriers. Profitability. What a concept for DL these days!

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