bill142
Posts: 7853
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:50 pm

Websites For Flight Loads

Fri May 05, 2006 10:11 am

I was just wondering if there were any websites which showed the loads on flights. I know that there is Amadeus but are there any others? Once I visited a website which showed loads (But I cannot remember what it was called) and it showed the avaliablity like for example 4F 5B 6J 8Y 9X 8Z 8R.. etc. For mere mortals like myself I'm only familiar with what F J an Y are and I do realise that discount fares have different class codes. but the numbers, which I assume are the avaliable seats, sort of confuse it a little.


Anyone know or can explain?

Thanks.
 
NKMCO
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:23 am

RE: Websites For Flight Loads

Fri May 05, 2006 10:18 am

This one perhaps?

http://www.flyaow.com/classcwt.htm

All the letters to Y are business/first and everything after Y is coach (Y is the most expensive coach fare).

You will only see numbers up to 9. That means that there are at least that many seats for that fare class. Now, that doesn't mean that 9+9+9+9+9=45. It can mean many more. At the same time the seat buckets (fare classes) can change day by day so it's really hard to say exactly how many seats total there are available. But as long as there are a lot of 9s out there the flight is pretty light...

[Edited 2006-05-05 03:22:12]
 
utapao
Posts: 546
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 10:19 pm

RE: Websites For Flight Loads

Fri May 05, 2006 10:37 am

NKMCO:

Good explanation!

I shudder when I read about people who base their opinions on whether a flight is full or not on the seatmap online. And it is difficult to explain regular availability vs. upgrade/award availability. It's a circus, and unless you have access to loads and can watch loads and seats per category change on a daily basis it doesn't make a lot of sense to most people.

Yield Management is one of the most interesting areas of operations, and can make or break an airline. Imagine if there weren't computer applications to handle it!!
Sawasdee khrab!
 
bill142
Posts: 7853
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:50 pm

RE: Websites For Flight Loads

Fri May 05, 2006 12:14 pm

So this flight for example
F4 A4 C4 J4 D4 Y9 B9 M9 W9 Q9 N9 V9 P4 H9 K9 Z9 = 114 avaliable seats accross all classes?
 
utapao
Posts: 546
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 10:19 pm

RE: Websites For Flight Loads

Fri May 05, 2006 12:30 pm

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 3):
F4 A4 C4 J4 D4 Y9 B9 M9 W9 Q9 N9 V9 P4 H9 K9 Z9 = 114 avaliable seats accross all classes?

Bill:

No... it means there are:
... at least 4 First (F/A)
... at least 4 Biz (C/J/D) and
... at least 9 Coach (Y) which at the time this display showed would have included all of the discount fares B-Z.

Now... depending on fare rules, on what categories are available on the return portion, etc., the appropriate class will be selected and the numbers above would change IF it causes any of those categories to dip below 9 (or the max 4 shown for F/A and C/J/D)

Quoting NKMCO (Reply 1):
Now, that doesn't mean that 9+9+9+9+9=45

Hope this helps....
Sawasdee khrab!
 
hawaiian717
Posts: 3139
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:46 am

RE: Websites For Flight Loads

Fri May 05, 2006 12:33 pm

No, you can't add it up. The same seat may be able to be sold in more than one class, and also remember you'll never see a number more than 9. Some airlines you'll only see numbers up to 4.

As an example of how you can be misled, I've seen availability displays that look like this:

F0 A0 J0 Y1 B1 M1 Q1 T1 S1 U1

This probably means there is just one seat left for sale, but you can buy it in any coach booking class. So as soon as you reserve it (say in S), the display then looks like this:

F0 A0 J0 Y0 B0 M0 Q0 T0 S0 U0
 
bill142
Posts: 7853
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:50 pm

RE: Websites For Flight Loads

Fri May 05, 2006 12:48 pm

So for example there could be Y1 B1 Z1 but in reality there could only be 1 seat avaliable in Y on the whole over all fare classes?
 
utapao
Posts: 546
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 10:19 pm

RE: Websites For Flight Loads

Fri May 05, 2006 12:59 pm

Quoting Hawaiian717 (Reply 5):
F0 A0 J0 Y1 B1 M1 Q1 T1 S1 U1
This probably means there is just one seat left for sale, but you can buy it in any coach booking class. So as soon as you reserve it (say in S), the display then looks like this:

Hawaiian717:

You are absolutely right... but hope everyone remember "seat for sale" normally has nothing to do with actual capacity.

One seat left to sell would normally mean the flight is already oversold. If there are 150 seats, the airline is probably selling 160-170 or more (depending on route, season, day of the week, history)... so even though there is one more Coach seat for sale, the flight is probably overbooked.
Sawasdee khrab!
 
AirScoot
Posts: 667
Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: Websites For Flight Loads

Fri May 05, 2006 9:43 pm

Those numbers are for authorized sales - not actual inventory.. and I don't know of any carrier out there that would allow actual loads to be available through any internet tool (talk about handing the store to the competition).

You may see 9 seats available across the board.. but that doesn't mean that the flight was authorized for 15 over actual capacity. (Authorized at 120.. actual number of seats on the aircraft is 105).

Looking at inventory availability is about as useful as looking at a seatmap to see what loads actually are.
 
carduelis
Posts: 1388
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2001 8:24 pm

RE: Websites For Flight Loads

Sat May 06, 2006 3:54 am

All airline availability displays include any overbooking profile (percentage) that Yield Management care to place on the figures.

When some flights are opened for sale, around 360 days before departure, there may well be a 100% overbooking profile placed on say, Y class. This is reduced as the flight gets closer to departure, and even then the flight can be 10% or more! I once did an exercise on how many seats were actually booked and later cancelled on various flights before arriving at the actual load factor after departure. The answer, as you can imagine vaires enormously, but can run up to several hundred. Yield Management know this and that is why they can adjust the overbooking profile accordingly, very often based on 'natural wastage' ie seats booked and then cancelled!

Personally, I never bother with even looking at all the sub classes as they are a waste of time! Just look at the 'parent' or 'zone' or 'compartment' classes of F, J, W (for World Traveller), and Y. All the other classes are subordinate and irrellevant! In Europe use C instead of J.

Having said that, I'll repeat, very often all of these compartment codes will still have an overbooking profile on them right up to check-in. Most of the time these flights clear and go full, or even light. That's the whole reason for the Yield Management Department - their job is to get the flights as full as possible!
Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!