FCKC
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Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sat May 06, 2006 1:00 am

After experiencing a window failure on the actual Chile AF1 (737-500) , during a trip to Paraguay , the new Chilean President want a new AF1.
No way for a BBJ as it seems she doesn't like the 737 anymore.........
No A319CJ as well.
The choice will be between one A330-200 or a 767-300 , depending of the funds available.
In any case will be a new presidential aircraft type , as up to now , no head of state flies with one of the types above.
 
RICARIZA
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sat May 06, 2006 1:47 am

Quoting FCKC (Thread starter):
No A319CJ as well

Why not?
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PM
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sat May 06, 2006 1:56 am

Quoting FCKC (Thread starter):
The choice will be between one A330-200 or a 767-300

767-300ER, I assume?

With LAN operating a large fleet of 767s I'd assume that it would have the advantage.
 
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yowza
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sat May 06, 2006 2:04 am

This is ridiculous, all planes go through equipment failures from time to time. Frankly I think the minister of transport should decide what she needs and that should be that. Besides what does she know about planes anyway? If you put a dirty 777 right next to a well groomed DC8 she would likely pick the clean plane  Yeah sure

YOWza
 
tommybp251b
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sat May 06, 2006 2:07 am

Quoting YOWza (Reply 3):
Besides what does she know about planes anyway?

Good one! I was thinking about the same.  Wink
Tom from Cologne
 
RICARIZA
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sat May 06, 2006 2:42 am

Quoting PM (Reply 2):
With LAN operating a large fleet of 767s I'd assume that it would have the advantage

Not necessarily, AFAIK LAN is 100% private and has nothing to do with the Chilean Air Force.

Quoting FCKC (Thread starter):
After experiencing a window failure on the actual Chile AF1 (737-500) , during a trip to Paraguay , the new Chilean President want a new AF1.
No way for a BBJ as it seems she doesn't like the 737 anymore.........



Quoting YOWza (Reply 3):
This is ridiculous, all planes go through equipment failures from time to time. Frankly I think the minister of transport should decide what she needs and that should be that. Besides what does she know about planes anyway? If you put a dirty 777 right next to a well groomed DC8 she would likely pick the clean plane

Please.. It was the Chilean Air Force who made that decision due to the fact that they need more range and capacity (I guess I answered my own post about why not the A319  Wink ) and more modern with new safety measures required for a Presidential Plane.
The agenda of President Bachellet will require extensive trips to Asia-Pacific region and the stops are always a safety issue when transporting a President.

President Bachellet is not ignorant to consider a change of planes just because this minor incident (as she called it).

BTW, I am pretty sure she would have picked the 777 in the idiotic example but again, she is not the one in charge or deciding the plane change, but the Chilean Air Force.

Have you guys ever been to Chile? Do you know how well organized is that country and its Air Force and how well cultured is President Bachellet?
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FCKC
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sat May 06, 2006 3:15 am

PM , of course a 767-300ER

RICAZIRA

Probably the choice will be made by the Chilean AF.
The actual 737-500 needs 2 stops to come in Europe (4600 kms range) and 3 stops to go to Asia Pacific.
As you said trips to Asia Pacific being planned a new great range plane is needed.
I guess an A319CJ has a great range , but probably less than a 330-200 . or a 767-300ER.
A second hand 767-300ER coming from LAN or another source would be the cheapest solution , but A 330-200 sporting the Chilean AF colors .....WOW............

I guess the Chilean AF is well structured , and having heard President Bachelet at the French TV , speaking in French , she is well cultured.
 
A342
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sat May 06, 2006 4:57 am

Well I think a 762ER would also have some chances as it has more range than the 763ER. LA could also maintain those and there are some offered for sale.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
trex8
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sat May 06, 2006 6:15 am

why would the head of state of a nation the size of Chile need a large VIP plane for occasional trips overseas??? Is the price of copper that high these days???
 
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sat May 06, 2006 6:30 am

I can't help thinking what a superb VIP plane the A340-500 would be - provided you have the $$$.
 
PPVRA
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sat May 06, 2006 6:57 am

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 5):
Quoting PM (Reply 2):
With LAN operating a large fleet of 767s I'd assume that it would have the advantage

Not necessarily, AFAIK LAN is 100% private and has nothing to do with the Chilean Air Force.

LAN can maintain the aircraft for the FACh.

The B762 is a good choice too, but what about A340-200s? Longer range than the A332s and 762ERs, about the same size, plus the "peace of mind" of four engines... I don't believe in the four engines for long haul theory, but considering it's a VIP aircraft, i bet Airbus can play that game with the FACh.

Cheers
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WhiteBirdFlyer
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sat May 06, 2006 7:16 am

Quoting YOWza (Reply 3):
Besides what does she know about planes anyway? If you put a dirty 777 right next to a well groomed DC8 she would likely pick the clean plane

Since her father was a rather well-respected Chilean Air Force General, I'd guess she might know at least as much as some of the A.net posters.  Wink

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 5):
Have you guys ever been to Chile? Do you know how well organized is that country and its Air Force and how well cultured is President Bachellet?

Dr. Bachellet is a Medical Doctor and was Minister of Defence, which presumes a rather high degree of education in the first instance in a country like Chile and in the second instance at least a working knowledge of military aircraft. I'd say she's an extremely well-qualified head of state.

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 8):
why would the head of state of a nation the size of Chile need a large VIP plane for occasional trips overseas??? Is the price of copper that high these days???

Yes it is. But it's not the size of the plane, it's the range that the Chilean Government is interested in, as already noted. The new President is going to be going on more than "occasional" trips. Besides, as the model economy of South America, Chile's prestige might occasion such a purchase. In point of fact and as an example, in the USA the old 707 was a fine Air Force One - the absolute necessity of having a 747 for the US President isn't quite grounded in service as much as it is in evidence.

Cordially,
WhiteBirdFlyer
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RICARIZA
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sat May 06, 2006 10:22 am

Quoting FCKC (Reply 6):
I guess the Chilean AF is well structured , and having heard President Bachelet at the French TV , speaking in French , she is well cultured.



Quoting WhiteBirdFlyer (Reply 11):
Dr. Bachellet is a Medical Doctor and was Minister of Defence, which presumes a rather high degree of education in the first instance in a country like Chile and in the second instance at least a working knowledge of military aircraft. I'd say she's an extremely well-qualified head of state

Exactly my point...!  Wink
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yowza
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sat May 06, 2006 10:26 am

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 5):
Have you guys ever been to Chile? Do you know how well organized is that country and its Air Force and how well cultured is President Bachellet?

I wasn't knocking the president, relax.  Yeah sure

Quoting WhiteBirdFlyer (Reply 11):
Since her father was a rather well-respected Chilean Air Force General, I'd guess she might know at least as much as some of the A.net posters.

Well my Dad has a Medical background but I'll bet that doesn't qaulify me to equip a hospital or perform a surgery.

YOWza
 
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solnabo
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sat May 06, 2006 10:59 am

Why 330/767 when there´s BBJ and ACJ?

Micke//SWE  Confused
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trex8
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sat May 06, 2006 12:00 pm

Quoting WhiteBirdFlyer (Reply 11):
Yes it is. But it's not the size of the plane, it's the range that the Chilean Government is interested in, as already noted. The new President is going to be going on more than "occasional" trips. Besides, as the model economy of South America, Chile's prestige might occasion such a purchase. In point of fact and as an example, in the USA the old 707 was a fine Air Force One - the absolute necessity of having a 747 for the US President isn't quite grounded in service as much as it is in evidence.

If Tony Blair can charter a BA plane for state visits, the President of Chile does not need something owned by the state for these overseas visits. Unless you are saying a LAN 767 is woefully inadequate for intercontinental trips. You don't see the President of S. Korea or Taiwan or Singapore flying around in a large plane with intercontinental range owned by the state! But then maybe the reason those 3 nations have some of the strongest economies in the world and some of the largest forex reserves is because they don't waste state money on what is truely nothing more than an extravagance and exercise in showing off. Which is why many economies in the southern hemisphere are in the predicament they are in.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sat May 06, 2006 1:07 pm

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 15):
Which is why many economies in the southern hemisphere are in the predicament they are in.

That is, without a doubt, one of the most ignorant comments I have heard or read in a long time. I've heard many words used to describe the Chilean economy both in Chile and in this country, and predicament is certainly not one of them. I'd say 6+% growth last year was pretty darn good. Is it perfect? No, but it's certainly not an economic failure.

You should ask some of the Argentine members here if the Argentine economy is a failure. Last time I checked, Argentina was in the Southern hemisphere too.

[Edited 2006-05-06 06:15:29]
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sat May 06, 2006 2:27 pm

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 15):
the President of Chile does not need something owned by the state for these overseas visits.

I suppose that would be up to the Chilean Government, and by extension, the Chileans that elected it, to decide. I was simply commenting on possible motivations given their current ascendancy in all areas of economic output and coming role in Latin American politics. More that a few observers, much more knowledgeable and astute than I am to be sure, predict quite a few Santiago-Bejing flights in the coming years. Chile has a lot of resources emerging super-economies like China are interested in.

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 14):
Unless you are saying a LAN 767 is woefully inadequate for intercontinental trips

I never addressed the possibility of a LAN charter or even came close to that. LAN seems to have a modern and stately fleet. Again, it seems to be up to the Chileans.

Does sort of beg the question given the USA's huge amount of adequate planes, why the President simply doesn't charter one of the many aircraft privately owned or parked in MHV or didn't continue to use the 707's. Sure, certainly it's a matter of prestige, showing off and all that. The USA has been rather good with Air Force One in that area, not to mention Marine One, etc. However, if Chile wants a new intercontinental-capable official plane, let them get one. I just hope they buy it from Boeing.  Wink

Quoting YOWza (Reply 13):
Well my Dad has a Medical background but I'll bet that doesn't qaulify me to equip a hospital or perform a surgery.

Well, no, but it would likely give you a leg up if you were presented with a choice between a dirty and unclean yet brand-new CAT scanner and a spiffy, highly-polished yet ancient Fluoroscope.  Wink

Cordially,
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trex8
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sat May 06, 2006 8:55 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 16):
You should ask some of the Argentine members here if the Argentine economy is a failure. Last time I checked, Argentina was in the Southern hemisphere too.

so 2or 3 out of many more makes a majority or even a trend???
more to the point, why is it that of many nations, many of whom were at economic parity after WW2, some developed and took off a few deacdes before the others? poor management and wanting to buy fancy toys for their government leaders and frittering away resources may certainly be near the top of the list of reasons. Not saying thats necessarily going on in Chile now but their economy while outstanding by S American standards is debatable as to being major league by world standards.

Quoting WhiteBirdFlyer (Reply 17):
More that a few observers, much more knowledgeable and astute than I am to be sure, predict quite a few Santiago-Bejing flights in the coming years. Chile has a lot of resources emerging super-economies like China are interested in.

I'm sure she is going to be travelling far more across oceans than the UK PM or Queen and so needs a personal plane and an expensive one at that. Now in some instances for security, I could see that you need it, especially if the person on the plane perhaps had a nuke key to control or were likely target to get blown out of the sky, or did I miss Chile joining the nuclear club or having major enemies??? Must have happened sometime between the N Koreans saying they had nukes and the Iranians saying they want it.
Fact is, Chile is not Saudi or Japan economically where they literally have money from petty cash account to flush down the john, it is not diplomatically or militarily in the category of the UK either. So why does she need a A330/777 or whatever. For hemispheric trips which would be far more common, a BBJ would be more than adequate. Anything more is pure excess. If the Chilean people want her to have it so be it. But for a nation whose military capital budget expenditure varies depending on royalties from natural resources doesn't seem like the wisest business decision to me.Which is why that part of the world is about a quarter century behind in its development compared to some other parts.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sat May 06, 2006 11:14 pm

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 18):
more to the point, why is it that of many nations, many of whom were at economic parity after WW2, some developed and took off a few deacdes before the others? poor management and wanting to buy fancy toys for their government leaders and frittering away resources may certainly be near the top of the list of reasons.

I would argue that prevailing economic theory in the post-WWII time period which turned out to be wrong was most of the problem. Heck, Argentina had the seventh largest GDP in the world in 1940. Argentina incurred massive debt and also attempted a policy of ISI which (basically) failed. Still, to lump most economies in the southern hemisphere together seems flawed to me. Ever fly on an Embraer?
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AviationAddict
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sat May 06, 2006 11:14 pm

Quoting YOWza (Reply 3):
Besides what does she know about planes anyway?

A little judgmental don't you think? Maybe she knows a lot about planes, hell, maybe she's even an A.net member!
 
trex8
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sun May 07, 2006 12:19 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 19):
Ever fly on an Embraer?

yeah, they're as bad as Canadairs except for the Ejets, so whats your point, ever drived a Hyundai or used a Lenovo??

my point is given where some of those economies started from, as you yourself say Argentina was 7th largest GDP in 1940, they have done a less than spectacular job (in fact it can be reasonably argued they have done appalingly) and it still remains the case that the Chiles, Argentinas and Brazils are the exception rather than the rule on that continent.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sun May 07, 2006 12:48 am

How about Australia and NZ? Both are in the Southern Hemisphere.
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trex8
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sun May 07, 2006 12:59 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 22):
How about Australia and NZ? Both are in the Southern Hemisphere.

ok, let me rephrase that, how about in Latin America, and subsaharan Africa
 
FCKC
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sun May 07, 2006 1:03 am

Solnabo

The Chile AF doesn't want 737s anymore , and A319CJ seems to be too small.
 
PPVRA
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sun May 07, 2006 1:53 am

If the aircraft is going to be operated by the Airforce, that means the expenses are going to be paid from Chile's military budget, no? Meaning there won't be any extra taxpayer money being used to begin with, just a realocation of resources from the FACh...?

Cheers
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Cubsrule
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sun May 07, 2006 2:15 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 25):
If the aircraft is going to be operated by the Airforce, that means the expenses are going to be paid from Chile's military budget, no? Meaning there won't be any extra taxpayer money being used to begin with, just a realocation of resources from the FACh...?

Yes, and FACh (along with the rest of the armed forces) is extraordiarily well-funded (10% of CODELCO reveunes go to the armed forces by law ... $378 million in 2004).
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WhiteBirdFlyer
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sun May 07, 2006 2:22 am

Is there any sort of purchasing rule in Chile that says they have to buy new, so to speak? I'd guess there is at least one 767-300ER sitting unused at MHV or some part of the world that could be purchased/outfitted/comissioned for considerably less cost than a new 767 or A3xx.

Cordially,
WFB
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AR385
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sun May 07, 2006 3:16 am

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 5):
Have you guys ever been to Chile? Do you know how well organized is that country and its Air Force and how well cultured is President Bachellet?

Wo, wow, wow Yes, been there, and I profoundly respect Ms. Bachellet. About the country being well organized, well beyond Santiago (and certain areas) the country is no different than your typical LatAm country. The North is a wasteland and the South is abandoned. Chile has some of the worst income distribution indexes in the world.

Quoting WhiteBirdFlyer (Reply 11):
Since her father was a rather well-respected Chilean Air Force General

Yes, who was killed by the same military that tortured Ms. Bachellet and her mother.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 16):
I'd say 6+% growth last year was pretty darn good. Is it perfect? No, but it's certainly not an economic failure.

Rates of growth mean nothing if social indicators are not moving in correlation with that number. Heve you seen the rates of grwoth of South Korea and how they live in the villages? Or China's? Plus, whenever the price of copper and fish-meal drops on the world market, Chile gets the pain.

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 21):
it still remains the case that the Chiles, Argentinas and Brazils are the exception

Argentina is growing artificially through leftists monetary policies, debt-default, government price controls, and government intervention in some industries. As a sympton of what's to come, you can see their inflation rate last year and their predicted one for this. Argentina is an economic bomb ready to explode (Again)

I don't really know much about Brazil.

In my opinion, the perfect plane would be a second hand 752.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sun May 07, 2006 3:39 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 28):
Plus, whenever the price of copper and fish-meal drops on the world market, Chile gets the pain.

As long as China keeps growing, the price of copper is safe. Your statement is relatively misleading too, in that less than primary products only account for about 50% of Chilean GDP. CODELCO, which is essentially the entire copper industry, accounted for about 8% of GDP in 2005.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 28):
Rates of growth mean nothing if social indicators are not moving in correlation with that number.

I agree wholeheartedly... let's look at some of those.

Infant Mortality: 8,58/1000
Life Expectancy at birth: 76,77
Literacy: 96,2%
Umemployment: 8%

Nothing too bad... GINI is a little high, at 57, but we're not anywhere near Namibia territory (71).
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RICARIZA
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sun May 07, 2006 3:52 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 28):
Wo, wow, wow Yes, been there, and I profoundly respect Ms. Bachellet. About the country being well organized, well beyond Santiago (and certain areas) the country is no different than your typical LatAm country. The North is a wasteland and the South is abandoned. Chile has some of the worst income distribution indexes in the world. Chile has some of the worst income distribution indexes in the world.[/

Well, first of all, you just described every country in the world, including the United States. Second, stop reading the exaggerated countries descriptions from the US State Department web page, you have no idea what you are saying, but I think this thread had enough political posts so I will go back to subject:

In terms of range and capacity / economics, isn't the 757 a good candidate? I know that countries like Mexico and Argentina use it as a Presidential plane.
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Cubsrule
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sun May 07, 2006 3:59 am

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 30):
In terms of range and capacity / economics, isn't the 757 a good candidate? I know that countries like Mexico and Argentina use it as a Presidential plane.

As Chile's ties with Asia strengthen, I wonder if a 757 would have the range. SCL-SFO-PEK is 2 5900 mile segments. How far can souped up 752s go?
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AR385
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sun May 07, 2006 4:06 am

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 30):
Well, first of all, you just described every country in the world, including the United States. Second, stop reading the exaggerated countries descriptions from the US State Department web page, you have no idea what you are saying,

Instead of a personal attack, like "You have no idea what you are saying" let me tell you that I do not read the US State Department web page. What I said was from being there. I've recently been to Arica, Iquique, Santiago, La Serena, several beach resorts, and Punta Arenas. What I said on my previous post stands. Cool your blood and answer logically, don't make it personal.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 29):
I agree wholeheartedly... let's look at some of those.

Infant Mortality: 8,58/1000
Life Expectancy at birth: 76,77
Literacy: 96,2%
Umemployment: 8%

Nothing too bad... GINI is a little high, at 57, but we're not anywhere near Namibia territory (71).

You are right, nothing too bad. Still, third world. Now, China, is slowing down, they have bought so much raw materials in the past two years than they can find use for them. My source is Business week, fortune and the Economist magazines. China is in for a big supply shock. And the price of steel, copper and other raw materials will come down, wether it comes down stumbling or controlled, well, the jury is still out about it. That is bound to affect Chile.

Back to the plane. On flights from Mexico to Japan, the Presidential 757-225 has to make one stop. Usually at Midway. If they are really full, they usually stop at HNL and then Midway. For countries like Chile, Mexico, and Argentina, I believe it is the best presidential plane. Nothing too fancy that you alienate the electorate but a real good worhorse of the right size and range.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sun May 07, 2006 4:23 am

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 8):
why would the head of state of a nation the size of Chile need a large VIP plane for occasional trips overseas???

 confused What difference does it actually make? Or does only the self-proclaimed "war president" leader of the Free World need a fleet of 747s to fly around in?
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Cubsrule
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sun May 07, 2006 4:25 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 32):
You are right, nothing too bad. Still, third world.

Therein lies our disagreement... Not up to U.S. standards, to me at least, certainly does not imply third world. Having travelled extensively in Chile, I am sure you've experienced aspects of Chilean society which are more first-world than what we have in this country, things like civil aviation, intercity buses, and the near eradication of childhood malnutrition.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 32):
China is in for a big supply shock. And the price of steel, copper and other raw materials will come down, wether it comes down stumbling or controlled, well, the jury is still out about it. That is bound to affect Chile.

I'm not sure that the copper price is going to decline as much as you seem to think. Keep a couple of things in mind. First, there have been some recent supply disruptions for firms in countries other than Chile. Second, I would argue that India's demand will increase even as China hits its supply shock. Many analysts are increasing price forcasts for the next 2 to 4 years. Even if prices do drop, though, it's not going to have as profound an effect within Chile as you assert.
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trex8
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sun May 07, 2006 4:34 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 33):
What difference does it actually make? Or does only the self-proclaimed "war president" leader of the Free World need a fleet of 747s to fly around in?

if you are dripping in $$ you can go fly around in the Space Shuttle or a stealthy UAV if you desire. If you have an entourage with a security detail larger than the entire security services of most nations then you may need a large plane! Besides which just the comm equipment requirements on AF One would probably exceed the electrical power capacity of a narrowbody plane. The head of state of a nation like Chile does not need it for the practical reasons outlined above. Its all for show. Fine , they want to waste their nations money on it, so be it.
 
MD11junkie
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sun May 07, 2006 5:14 am

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 35):
The head of state of a nation like Chile does not need it for the practical reasons outlined above.

Who are you to say they don't need it? Are you in some case an expert on chilean presidents?

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 34):
Therein lies our disagreement... Not up to U.S. standards, to me at least, certainly does not imply third world. Having travelled extensively in Chile, I am sure you've experienced aspects of Chilean society which are more first-world than what we have in this country, things like civil aviation, intercity buses, and the near eradication of childhood malnutrition.

I think this is the first time I have ever agreed with you!  Smile

Quoting AR385 (Reply 32):
For countries like Chile, Mexico, and Argentina, I believe it is the best presidential plane. Nothing too fancy that you alienate the electorate but a real good worhorse of the right size and range.

I don't know if there's any ideal plane, but they are in accordance to the importance of the countries in the region. Ironically, Brazil owns an A319CJ.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 28):
Argentina is an economic bomb ready to explode (Again)

Not really, there's some room to avoid that still. Let's hope the government changes its view and actually starts DOING stuff.

Quoting FCKC (Reply 24):
The Chile AF doesn't want 737s anymore , and A319CJ seems to be too small.

How do you know this? Argentin's own 757-23A suffered an engine mulfunction on takeoff, with the president on board - and we still love that plane. The Air Force always opposes the government when there are talks of "selling the plane".

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 21):
yeah, they're as bad as Canadairs except for the Ejets

Bad in what sense? Bad from a passengers point of view? If so, tell the carriers. They are the ones that choose to configure it that way. Not EMBRAER.

Quoting PM (Reply 2):
With LAN operating a large fleet of 767s I'd assume that it would have the advantage.

Keep in mind that Sebastián Piñera, LAN's biggest shareholder/owner, was Ms. Bachellet's rival for the presidential seat in Chile. Things got really nasty. I think that could give the A330 a bit of an advantage.  Wink

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 15):
Which is why many economies in the southern hemisphere are in the predicament they are in.

Oh, please. This has to be the most ignorant statement I've ever read. For sure having a big plane is to show off. But, have you seen the economic doing of some of the Eastern European countries? They do have small planes. And, go figure... they are still doing bad...  Yeah sure

Cheers! wave 
Gastón - The MD11 Junkie
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
 
trex8
Posts: 4618
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sun May 07, 2006 5:23 am

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 36):
Bad in what sense? Bad from a passengers point of view? If so, tell the carriers. They are the ones that choose to configure it that way. Not EMBRAER.

while since my favorite ride is a 747, those things aren't designed for anyone over 5 feet tall, they are way too small and an ATR or Fokker prop is more comfortable!

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 36):
Oh, please. This has to be the most ignorant statement I've ever read. For sure having a big plane is to show off. But, have you seen the economic doing of some of the Eastern European countries? They do have small planes. And, go figure... they are still doing bad...  

I'm not trying to be rascist, elitist or whatever, fact is, you look at the
number of economies really doing well in the southern hemipshere and compare to the north, they simply don't do as well, eastern europe is well eastern europe, you can make a good argument to keep it out of "europe" though the growth rates of some of them are nothing to sneer at while the growth rates of many "southern hemisphere nations" remains , in some instances negative even!
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sun May 07, 2006 5:30 am

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 37):
while the growth rates of many "southern hemisphere nations" remains , in some instances negative even!

You appear to have defined "Southern Hemisphere" as Latin America and sub-Saharan Africa. The only 2 countries in those 2 regions with negative real GDP growth were Zimbabwe and Guyana... hardly the big dogs of the regions. Meanwhile, 3 of the 4 fastest growing economies (in 2005) are in sub-Saharan Africa.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
EZEIZA
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sun May 07, 2006 6:15 am

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 15):
Which is why many economies in the southern hemisphere are in the predicament they are in.

yeah, the difference of getting a bigger plane is what makes nations poor or not ...
If the Chilenean AF feels it needs an aircraft that has a longer range, so be it, where's the problem? They obviously feel they need a large aircraft due to their agenda in Asia and probably Europe, so why get a plane that will need 1 or 2 stops, with the costs that stopping implies, when they need something that will take them the fastest way possible? Taking into consideration Chile's geographical position (el culo del mundo, as Argentina) and their needs, I think they need more than a 757. Just my opinion.


Quoting Trex8 (Reply 37):
number of economies really doing well in the southern hemipshere and compare to the north, they simply don't do as well,

I don't agree with you on that. Yes, most of the rich nations are in the northern hemisphere, but many poor nations are in the north as well.
Roughly half of Africa is in the North, most of Central America suffers from poverty, as well as most of the former Soviet Republics.
regards  Smile
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
RICARIZA
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Sun May 07, 2006 9:41 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 32):
Cool your blood and answer logically, don't make it personal.

I agree that LatAm still have many (many) economical/social problems, but just because we don't operate the same way as the "developed" countries doesn't mean we are wrong. What some people consider disorganized, we consider it expressive and free willing (not in all cases of course)...Well, My apologies if my answers seem emotional, I am not trying to offend anyone, I am just tired of judgmental and wrongful comments that generalize Latin America as this disorganized, uncultured and poor region, that's all.
Generalize LatAm is as wrong as generalize Europe. Every country is very different.

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 36):
Keep in mind that Sebastián Piñera, LAN's biggest shareholder/owner, was Ms. Bachellet's rival for the presidential seat in Chile. Things got really nasty.

You are absolutely right, I forgot that..
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
Arcano
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RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Mon May 08, 2006 4:15 am

OK, let's stay cold for a while and make some comments:

Facts:
1. We do have a 735, which was highly criticized when purchased in 97; some people thought is was ridiculous to make this expense for sucha limited aircraft (if we are going to spend, then spend well). Other people, specially the opposition wing, thought it was unnecessary.

2. Chile is in the last corner of the world, so we do expect our president to travel a lot and demand a lot of range from an aircraft.

3. Maybe UK has British Airways and Singapore has Singapore airways, but in Chile we have LAN CHILE, and as you can constantly read in this forum, LAN is always tight of aircraft, so it's not like you call them and they rent you a 767. LAN cannot supply an aircraft everytime the president demands

4. Chilean economy is funded in foreign trade, which demand a lot of chilean committees traveling abroad

5. NOBODY HAS REALLY DISCUSS IN THIS COUNTRY ABOUT CHANGING THE PRESIDENTIAL AIRCRAFT. President Bachellet only said that she wasn't closed to Analise the idea, and our airforce suggested that the 735 was not the aircraft that better fit presidential needs. Last year, FACH actually budgeted a 762. About 330s? this thread is the first I hear of...

Now, and after reading all you thoughts (it's always fun to read foreign opinions about you country), allow me to reply:

Quoting FCKC (Thread starter):
, the new Chilean President want a new AF1.
No way for a BBJ as it seems she doesn't like the 737 anymore.........
No A319CJ as well.
The choice will be between one A330-200 or a 767-300 , depending of the funds available.

As posted, never heard of the idea of a 332. I think if this new aircraft idea sees the light, it will be a 762

Quoting YOWza (Reply 3):
Frankly I think the minister of transport should decide what she needs and that should be that. Besides what does she know about planes anyway?

The decision belongs to the minister of defense and the Air Force. President Bachelet is the daughter of an Air Force general and she was also minister of defense until she got into presidential race. Trust me, maybe not an expert, but she is not ignorant at all about that matter

Quoting FCKC (Reply 6):
A second hand 767-300ER coming from LAN or another source would be the cheapest solution , but A 330-200 sporting the Chilean AF colors .....WOW............

LAN is buying new 763s and renewing the interiors of the current in fleet, I don't see they are on sale

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 8):
why would the head of state of a nation the size of Chile need a large VIP plane for occasional trips overseas??? Is the price of copper that high these days???



Quoting Trex8 (Reply 15):
If Tony Blair can charter a BA plane for state visits, the President of Chile does not need something owned by the state for these overseas visits. Unless you are saying a LAN 767 is woefully inadequate for intercontinental trips



Quoting Trex8 (Reply 15):
3 nations have some of the strongest economies in the world and some of the largest forex reserves is because they don't waste state money on what is truely nothing more than an extravagance and exercise in showing off.



Quoting Trex8 (Reply 18):
Not saying thats necessarily going on in Chile now but their economy while outstanding by S American standards is debatable as to being major league by world standards.



Quoting Trex8 (Reply 23):
ok, let me rephrase that, how about in Latin America, and subsaharan Africa

Buddy, after reading all your pre conceived ideas of what Latin America is, I can teach you that Chile was recognized last year as the country with better macroeconomic management of the world. If there is any country that does not extravagances at expenses of the people, that is Chile. The price of copper is that high and our state right now is richer than ever. Do you know what we do? we are saving it by savings abroad, hence we control the exchange rate and have reserved for more difficult time.

So there are countries in "latin america and africa" (that is your cluster, right?) that have proved how to be serious. This country is looking for global integration, our economy bets for that, so we DO need a travelling president.

Your post is nothing but a bunch of cheap ideas, so please, read more, study first, and talk later.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 28):
the country is no different than your typical LatAm country. The North is a wasteland and the South is abandoned.

AR385, you sound bitter my friend! We do have distribution issues, but it is not Santiago which have the monopoly of development. There are many cities in our northern and southern territory where, although the "rhythm" of the city might feel slower, have the same efficiency and well management of Santiago. Take a look to CCP, PMC, IQQ, ANF...


Anyway, this thread is about the idea of changing the a/c after the window crack. I don't see we'll hear of it soon...

Regards )( Arcano
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
WhiteBirdFlyer
Posts: 87
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:18 am

RE: Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?

Mon May 08, 2006 6:19 am

Quoting Arcano (Reply 41):
Facts:
1. We do have a 735, which was highly criticized when purchased in 97....

2. Chile is in the last corner of the world, so we do expect our president to travel a lot and demand a lot of range from an aircraft.

That does seem to add some light to the intellectual question, whether or not anyone inside Chile, as you rightly point out, is actively considering the question of a new official plane. Since Chile's geography really necessitates a long-haul aircraft to go just about anywhere else, the -original- purchase of a 735 does seem sort of short-sighted when it's put purely in geographic terms. (The phrase, if I'm getting it close to right, "mandar un condoro" is probably too strong!)

I'm making plans myself to fly into SCL sooner than later and will be happy to report back to folks here about what I see and find. From everything I've read so far, though, Chile is way ahead of the Norte Americanos in the ability to reform government and is really doing a splendid job of starting to address inequities in society. President Bachellet's recent election (which not only as a woman but also as a former victim of the Pinochet regime) isn't that well understood "up here" for what it really was: a powerfully quiet, amazing revolution in Chilean politics. Would that more countries had people of her caliber!

Cordially,
WhiteBirdFlyer
WhiteBirdFlyer, currently near SFO