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clickhappy
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Can An Empty 757 Do ADD-PAE On 1-stop

Sat May 06, 2006 1:38 pm

Can an empty pax 757 fly ADD to PAE with one stop? If so, where would it stop, RKV or KEF (or ???)?
 
Longhornmaniac
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RE: Can An Empty 757 Do ADD-PAE On 1-stop

Sat May 06, 2006 2:05 pm

By empty I assume you mean full fuel, no payload.

It'd be really close, but I'd say no.

According to Boeing's website, the maximum range for the 757-200 is 3900 nautical miles.

The Great Circle Mapper shows ADD-PAE at 7254 nm, which is 546 nm less than two equal distance segments, separated by one fuel stop.

Even with no headwinds, the 757 doesn't have the range to make it to RKV or KEF, meaning a stop on the British Isles would be necessary. It looks to me that the distance from BHX-PAE is just outside the 757's range, and even if it were, we all know that there are never no headwinds going westbound over the atlantic.  Smile

Even though adding 3900 + 3900 puts ADD-PAE within range with one stop, there isn't a suitable airfield right in the middle. (unless you count the middle of the north atlantic  Wink)

Hope this helps!

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
N1120A
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RE: Can An Empty 757 Do ADD-PAE On 1-stop

Sat May 06, 2006 4:32 pm

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 1):
By empty I assume you mean full fuel, no payload.

It'd be really close, but I'd say no.

Sorry, you are wrong there. First, TER is just over 3900nm from each airport and a fully fueled, emptied 752 has plenty of range to do that. Paul Allen's 2 752s which have auxillary tanks are said to have US West Coast-Sydney range, so an empty 752 should be able to do this routing 1-stop

Quoting Clickhappy (Thread starter):
If so, where would it stop, RKV or KEF (or ???)?

Not RKV, the runway is only 5141'
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: Can An Empty 757 Do ADD-PAE On 1-stop

Sat May 06, 2006 4:36 pm


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Andreas Mowinckel



I'm not up on the 752's technical data, but the caption for this photo says that this particular 763 flew SEA-IAD-FCO-ADD for it's delivery route, so I'd imagine a 752 would fly something similar.

This of course assumes that you're asking about a delivery flight and not a commercial route...although I'm sure the load factors on PAE-ADD would be incredible  Wink.
 
dkny
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RE: Can An Empty 757 Do ADD-PAE On 1-stop

Sat May 06, 2006 4:43 pm

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 3):
I'm not up on the 752's technical data, but the caption for this photo says that this particular 763 flew SEA-IAD-FCO-ADD for it's delivery route, so I'd imagine a 752 would fly something similar.

That was a delivery flight and it was a commercial flight with passengers from SEA. The rest IAD-FCO-ADD is the regular routing for ET's north america flight.

Clickhappy when is the 757 due in PAE. I assume this is the pax aircraft that will undergo the cargo convertion.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Can An Empty 757 Do ADD-PAE On 1-stop

Sat May 06, 2006 5:02 pm

An empty 757 should be able to do ADD-KEF nonstop for it's first leg of the flight to PAE. A direct ADD-KEF flight is, according to the Great Circle Mapper, only 4181 nm still air distance. And considering that QF did the delivery flight leg LHR-SYD nonstop a few years back with the 747, and I believe another QF A330 made a nonstop TLS-Australia delivery flight recently (I'm not sure on the Airbus delivery flight though), an empty 757 should be able to squeeze more range like the above examples.

I'm not good on the technical, but if a 757 at MTOW (full fuel plus the possible passenger/cargo load) can make 3900 nm nonstop, then an empty 757 should be able to fly at least up to 4500 or even 5000 nm. And considering that we're not in the winter, winds shouldn't be that big of a problem. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Though a flight ADD-PAE through TER would probably make more sense, because as N1120A said, it's just 3900 nm distance between the airports, which is the 757-200's design range.
 
Joost
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RE: Can An Empty 757 Do ADD-PAE On 1-stop

Sat May 06, 2006 5:19 pm

Longhornmaniac, where did you find the 3900nm figure? From the specifications on http://www.boeing.com/commercial/airports/757.htm I found the following data.

Depending on the engines, the range with a zero payload an max fuel is:

MODEL 757-200 (RB211-535C ENGINES) 4300nm
MODEL 757-200 (RB211-535C ENGINES) 4600nm
MODEL 757-200, -200PF (PW2037, PW2040 ENGINES) 4800nm
MODEL 757-300 (RB211-535E4, -535E4B ENGINES) 4100nm
MODEL 757-300 (PW2040, PW2043 ENGINES) 4200nm

N1120A, why TER? According to the great circle mapper, PIK and SNN seem to be favorable alternatives.
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: Can An Empty 757 Do ADD-PAE On 1-stop

Sat May 06, 2006 5:22 pm

Quoting Dkny (Reply 4):

That was a delivery flight and it was a commercial flight with passengers from SEA. The rest IAD-FCO-ADD is the regular routing for ET's north america flight.

What?!? Ethiopian doesn't serve SEA...were they carrying passengers on this flight only?
 
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LTU932
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RE: Can An Empty 757 Do ADD-PAE On 1-stop

Sat May 06, 2006 6:12 pm

Quoting Joost (Reply 6):
From the specifications on http://www.boeing.com/commercial/airports/757.htm I found the following data.

Depending on the engines, the range with a zero payload an max fuel is:

MODEL 757-200 (RB211-535C ENGINES) 4300nm
MODEL 757-200 (RB211-535C ENGINES) 4600nm
MODEL 757-200, -200PF (PW2037, PW2040 ENGINES) 4800nm
MODEL 757-300 (RB211-535E4, -535E4B ENGINES) 4100nm
MODEL 757-300 (PW2040, PW2043 ENGINES) 4200nm

And this page says the 752's range is 3900 nm for the PAX version, and 3150 nm for the freighter, while for the 753 has a range of 3395 nm (that's probably the design range for the respective models without the aftermarket winglets).

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/757family/pf/pf_200tech.html

And are you sure those figures you quoted are nautical miles, and not statute miles? And what about the range for the winglet versions?
 
Joost
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RE: Can An Empty 757 Do ADD-PAE On 1-stop

Sat May 06, 2006 6:50 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 8):
And this page says the 752's range is 3900 nm for the PAX version, and 3150 nm for the freighter, while for the 753 has a range of 3395 nm

Most often, the quoted ranges are the ranges with a full typical pax load (2-class lay-out), no extra cargo. So the useful range from an operator point of view. The range when using the aircraft depends a lot on the payload.
this link http://www.boeing.com/commercial/airports/plan_manuals.html you can find the exact graphs of the payload/range ratio for all Boeing (and former MD) aircraft. You see the range with max payload, and you see it increasing when decreasing payload.

The range published on the other pages of the website, is the useful range in a typical mission profile. When airlines habe a lot of bellyhold cargo, range is consirably less - that's why, for example, the 777-200ER is very useful for transatlantic carriers that have a lot of cargo.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Can An Empty 757 Do ADD-PAE On 1-stop

Sun May 07, 2006 5:48 am

Quoting Joost (Reply 9):
Most often, the quoted ranges are the ranges with a full typical pax load (2-class lay-out), no extra cargo. So the useful range from an operator point of view. The range when using the aircraft depends a lot on the payload.
this link http://www.boeing.com/commercial/airports/plan_manuals.html you can find the exact graphs of the payload/range ratio for all Boeing (and former MD) aircraft. You see the range with max payload, and you see it increasing when decreasing payload.

Thanks for explaining. So in the end, according to that, a theoretical ADD-KEF-PAE ferry flight would be possible like I said.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Can An Empty 757 Do ADD-PAE On 1-stop

Sun May 07, 2006 5:51 am

Looks like it flew ADD-PIK-IAD-PAE
 
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RobK
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RE: Can An Empty 757 Do ADD-PAE On 1-stop

Sun May 07, 2006 8:27 am

Royal it flew ADD-LGW-IAD-PAE as ETH9201 and currently enroute IAD-PAE right now.

Any ideas on reg?

R
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Can An Empty 757 Do ADD-PAE On 1-stop

Sun May 07, 2006 8:37 am

No but I am heading down to do a photo shoot for Precision Conversions so will let you know.
 
ETStar
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RE: Can An Empty 757 Do ADD-PAE On 1-stop

Sun May 07, 2006 8:57 am

There she is:

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f249/ETStar/iadpae.jpg
 
SierraAir
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RE: Can An Empty 757 Do ADD-PAE On 1-stop

Sun May 07, 2006 9:04 am

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 7):
What?!? Ethiopian doesn't serve SEA...were they carrying passengers on this flight only?

For the delivery flight, Ethiopian received special permission to fly regular pax from SEA-IAD.
 
jran225
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RE: Can An Empty 757 Do ADD-PAE On 1-stop

Sun May 07, 2006 10:53 am

Quoting RobK (Reply 12):
Any ideas on reg?

Hey Rob,

the registration was ET-AJX. Photos of the arrival at IAD will be posted soon.  Smile

Regards,
-Omar S.  Smile
Never tell your girlfriend about all the 'action' you're getting at the airport - only photogs understand that.
 
ETStar
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RE: Can An Empty 757 Do ADD-PAE On 1-stop

Sun May 07, 2006 11:02 am

Quoting SierraAir (Reply 15):
For the delivery flight, Ethiopian received special permission to fly regular pax from SEA-IAD.

The permission did not include pax getting off at IAD, but only continuing on to ADD all the way from SEA. No cabbotage allowed. ET also had great deals on tickets for that delivery flight, including a giveaway in the SEA area.
 
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RobK
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RE: Can An Empty 757 Do ADD-PAE On 1-stop

Sun May 07, 2006 11:40 am

Quoting Jran225 (Reply 16):
the registration was ET-AJX.

Great thanks!

R