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Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sat May 06, 2006 4:41 pm

http://www.aerospacemedia.com/AFP/pr....asp?xml=060506070156.r1fyp4au.xml

The last episode of the Aeroflot saga.
As most of you , i am waiting for an official announcement.
 
MOW
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sat May 06, 2006 5:04 pm

The link is Russian:

Vedomosti article

According to the article in Vedomosti, SU's board of directors has chosen Airbus, already in the end of April. US is excessively tough in negotiations for Russia joining WTO, and this 'behaviour' is to be blamed, says the article. In addition, Airbus offered good discount for A350s and EADS has a lot of joint projects together with Russian aerospace industry.
But, as all interviewed in the article say - nothing is final yet.
 
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sat May 06, 2006 5:07 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 1):
This order would bring the count well over 200, excluding the likely 15 A350's for Air madrid which are up in the air.

I thought the NM order was already an LOI, or is it still just an MOU?

Anyway, you never know with SU. One says they're going for the A350, the others say 787, Boeing and Airbus will try to win SU over with some sweet deals, though I believe Boeing might have the upper hand, because they can get SU an additional deal on those MD-11Fs they were looking for. But again, you never know. SU is also state owned, so the order might become also something of a political thing for the Russian government.
 
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sat May 06, 2006 5:15 pm

Here's the first story

By Lyuba Pronina
May 6 (Bloomberg) -- Airbus SAS beat rival Boeing Co. in a $3 billion tender to supply as many as 34 jets to Russia's OAO Aeroflot, Vedomosti said, citing an unidentified Kremlin official.

State-run Aeroflot picked Airbus's A350 over Chicago-based Boeing's 787 Dreamliner at a board meeting April 27, the newspaper said. Aeroflot is buying 22 planes with an option to buy another 12, a package valued at $3 billion.

Russia's inability to get the U.S. to agree to its accession to the World Trade Organization played a role in the decision, the Kremlin official told Vedomosti.


[END - Fair use excerpt http://www.bloomberg.com ]

Next story carried are headlines as follows, direct from Deputy CEO,

*AEROFLOT SAYS AIRBUS, BOEING DECISION `WILL BE POLITICAL'
*AEROFLOT DEPUTY CEO KOSHLYAKOV SPEKAING BY TELEPHONE
*AEROFLOT SAYS BOEING, AIRBUS FINAL VOTE TO BE AFTER JUNE 17
*AEROFLOT SAYS SHAREHOLDERS TO VOTE ON AIRBUS, BOEING OFFERS
*AEROFLOT DENIES REPORT ON AIRBUS WINNING TENDER

With also the following statement;

Aeroflot would have named the winner this week, though those plans were put on hold after an Armenian airline Airbus crashed into the Black Sea on May 3, killing all 113 people on board, Vedomosti said, citing the official.

Make of it what you will but I can confirm, but I have no link, that a decision was indeed made last week and that the above statement prevented an official announcement from being made.

Regards, PanAm_DC10
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gunsontheroof
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sat May 06, 2006 5:45 pm

We've had several threads with links like this already. Screw the order..at this point, I'm not going to believe it until I see the plane!
 
zvezda
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sat May 06, 2006 5:53 pm

This looks like Putin putting pressure on the US negotiators regarding WTO accession. I don't read anything else into it. We'll have to wait to see what SU order.
 
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sat May 06, 2006 6:05 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 1):
This order would bring the count well over 200

I think it would be prudent to stick to the firm orders on the Airbus website. They currently list 100 so this order (if it happens) would take them to 122. (Let's not count Qatar, GECAS, or any others until the order has been signed.)
 
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sat May 06, 2006 6:10 pm

This Aeroflot order is starting to become very boring. Talk about politically motivated.

Regards,
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sat May 06, 2006 6:14 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 4):
*AEROFLOT SAYS AIRBUS, BOEING DECISION `WILL BE POLITICAL'

What impact might this have on the engine selection?

Buy RR as well as Airbus to make sure that Washington gets the message?
Buy GE on Airbus to keep both sides (a little) happy?

Remember that Moscow is unhappy with the UK right now because of opposition to the purchase of Centrica. They might snub RR as a punishment.

Who knows?!
 
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sat May 06, 2006 7:42 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 7):
I think it would be prudent to stick to the firm orders on the Airbus website. They currently list 100 so this order (if it happens) would take them to 122. (Let's not count Qatar, GECAS, or any others until the order has been signed.)

If you'd like to count firm orders only, that's up to you. Meanwhile, I count both firm and commitments, announced by Airbus. Which at this stage excludes the Air Madrid order and those of Aeroflot.
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sat May 06, 2006 7:56 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 10):

If you'd like to count firm orders only, that's up to you. Meanwhile, I count both firm and commitments, announced by Airbus. Which at this stage excludes the Air Madrid order and those of Aeroflot.

Count however you wish, but if you count orders and commitments, don't report that number as "orders" as you did in Reply 1. Report it as "orders and commitments." If I were a moderator, I would delete Reply 1 for being false.
 
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sat May 06, 2006 8:07 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 10):
If you'd like to count firm orders only, that's up to you. Meanwhile, I count both firm and commitments, announced by Airbus. Which at this stage excludes the Air Madrid order and those of Aeroflot.

Manni I, respectfully, disagree. The ultimate arbiter as to what constitutes a firm order, is what is listed on the Airbus and Boeing order pages. Refer to QRs commitment for 20 x 777s, LoI renounced, RFP re-opened, it means diddley squat. Is that the sort of commitment you refer to when you say you count commitments? Airbus have 100 firm A350 orders. Simple as that.

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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sat May 06, 2006 8:18 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 12):
The ultimate arbiter as to what constitutes a firm order, is what is listed on the Airbus and Boeing order pages. Refer to QRs commitment for 20 x 777s, LoI renounced, RFP re-opened, it means diddley squat. Is that the sort of commitment you refer to when you say you count commitments? Airbus have 100 firm A350 orders. Simple as that.

Unfortunately, this "commitments" nonsense which Baseler and Leahy have popularized looks like it's here to stay. Sad
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sat May 06, 2006 8:32 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 1):
This order would bring the count well over 200, excluding the likely 15 A350's for Air madrid which are up in the air.

 boggled 


http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/business/14513717.htm

Quote:


Posted on Sat, May. 06, 2006email thisprint this
Airbus A350 under review amid slow sales
BY ANDREA ROTHMAN
Bloomberg News Service

As of April, Airbus has won 184 commitments for the A350, about 100 of them firm orders, compared with 350 firm orders for Boeing's 787.


Halibut
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sat May 06, 2006 8:48 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 13):
Unfortunately, this "commitments" nonsense which Baseler and Leahy have popularized looks like it's here to stay.

Thank you Leelaw though in this case, you can't teach an old "orders junkie" new tricks  Wink

Commitments only really came into play last year as Mr Leahy and Co back peddled over their 200 A350 by year end statements mockingly made in reference to Boeing's errors of 2004.

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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sat May 06, 2006 8:51 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 12):

Manni I, respectfully, disagree. The ultimate arbiter as to what constitutes a firm order, is what is listed on the Airbus and Boeing order pages

Not sure with what you disagree, but let it be clear that I did not say that commitments equal firm orders.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 11):
If I were a moderator, I would delete Reply 1 for being false.

 Yeah sure

Quoting Halibut (Reply 14):

As of April, Airbus has won 184 commitments for the A350, about 100 of them firm orders,

What exactely is your point Halibut? The article you quoted confirms what I said, minus the 22 for Aeroflot.
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sat May 06, 2006 9:13 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 15):
Not sure with what you disagree, but let it be clear that I did not say that commitments equal firm orders.

Manni, again, with respect, re-read my post. commitments mean nothing until the deal is signed and "on the books". I also gave you and example of a commitment which no longer exists. That is where I disagree sir. Just how many of those commitments will turn into firm orders?

As the saying goes, "don't count your chickens before they hatch"  Smile

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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sat May 06, 2006 9:20 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 16):
Just how many of those commitments will turn into firm orders?

That's easy. Some, but not all.

It's not a problem if someone wants to count orders + commitments, so long as they are clearly represented as "orders + commitments" and not misrepresented as "orders."
 
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sat May 06, 2006 9:29 pm

This has been predicted begining of this year. US/Russia relationship is pretty hard now I am not surprised SU went with Airbus, plus if I am not mistaken Airbus is willing to provid planes earlier then Boing.
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sat May 06, 2006 9:40 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 17):
That's easy. Some, but not all

Fair point and I would concur.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 17):
It's not a problem if someone wants to count orders + commitments, so long as they are clearly represented as "orders + commitments" and not misrepresented as "orders."

Therein lies my point sir. The example of a useless commitment was QR. Well, we've seen just how good their word is on a commitment for 20 x 777s. Let's see how good their commitment to 60 A350s is now given that ILFC, SQ, OS, GECAS and EK have publicly rebuked the current model. If QR are listening to whom their main competitors are saying, I 'd say there's are good chance that their commitment for 60, to be ultimately firm, could be under serious consideration for amendement. QR, have after all, set the benchmark this year as to what constitutes a commitment

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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sat May 06, 2006 9:40 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 16):
commitments mean nothing

To say they mean nothing is exadurating. Commitments are generally a reliable way to judge haw a plane is selling after firm orders. Yes, some comitments dont masterialise but the vast majority do. If commitments meant nothing, LOIs or MOUs would not be used, and orders would be signed from day 1.


Back on the article, how reliable is the agency? Im as skepticle as ever about SU, i'll cound this as a given when it appears on the manufacturers website.
 
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sat May 06, 2006 9:41 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 15):
What exactely is your point Halibut? The article you quoted confirms what I said, minus the 22 for Aeroflot.


 talktothehand  Stop - Wrong !!!

Manni,
You were attempting to add 22 possible firm orders to Airbus's commitments . Trying to insinuate that Airbus has 200 + firm orders , which is not the case at all .



Quoting Halibut (Reply 13):
Quoting Manni (Reply 1):
This order would bring the count well over 200, excluding the likely 15 A350's for Air madrid which are up in the air.



Quoting Halibut (Reply 13):


Posted on Sat, May. 06, 2006email thisprint this
Airbus A350 under review amid slow sales
BY ANDREA ROTHMAN
Bloomberg News Service

As of April, Airbus has won 184 commitments for the A350, about 100 of them firm orders, compared with 350 firm orders for Boeing's 787.

It would have been more accurate to have said : Airbus now has over 120 firm orders . Your vein attempt to add Firm orders to commitments does not fool me .

Nice try !  wink 


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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sat May 06, 2006 9:57 pm

Quoting Halibut (Reply 21):
Manni,
You were attempting to add 22 possible firm orders to Airbus's commitments . Trying to insinuate that Airbus has 200 + firm orders , which is not the case at all .

It's interesting, but no surprise to see how Zveda's interpretation of my first reply has succes by people such as you.

And I will leave it at that.

Quoting Halibut (Reply 21):
Your vein attempt to add Firm orders to commitments does not fool me .

That's a pitty I should have add the 'possible firm orders' and while I'm at it, the 'possible commitments too.  Yeah sure

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 17):
misrepresented as "orders."

Again, no surprises here. Tell me Zvezda.. Would you delete your post if you were a moderator for your false accusation?  Silly
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sat May 06, 2006 10:01 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 20):
Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 16):
commitments mean nothing

To say they mean nothing is exadurating.

Please do not quote me out of context sir;

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 16):
commitments mean nothing until the deal is signed and "on the books".

To be even handed, Primaris remind you of someone whom have a commitment? Their first 738 was suppossed to be delivered last year around November, I think their commitment for the 787 is exactly that, the slots will go elsewhere and the commitment will cease to exist, never having seen firm status just as QR stand on the 777 Series as of this day.

Back OT. Interesting number for SU. 34 of which 22 will be firm plus 12 options. I assume they increased this number due to the mergers taking place?

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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sat May 06, 2006 10:17 pm

Any word on the mix of models: A350-800/-900s? If not, any guesses?
 
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sat May 06, 2006 10:29 pm

Hi Manni, wave 

I have two questions for you :

How many Firm orders does Airbus have , as of April 2006 , for the A350 ???

How many commitments does Airbus have , as of April 2006 , for the A350 ???

Give or take a dozen !


Halibut

[Edited 2006-05-06 15:34:29]
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sat May 06, 2006 10:30 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 17):
It's not a problem if someone wants to count orders + commitments, so long as they are clearly represented as "orders + commitments" and not misrepresented as "orders."

Here's an excerpt from the Airbus Press Release announcing the launch of the A350:

AIRBUS A350 FIRM ORDER COMMITMENTS

Air Europa 10

Alafco 12

CIT 5

Gecas 10

Kingfisher Airlines 5

Qatar Airways 60

TAM 8

US Airways 20

Unannounced 10

Total 140 commitments from 9 Customers


Let's see if standard metric is successfully morphed into "Firm Order Commitments?"  spin 

http://stagev4.airbus.com/en/pressce...es_items/10_06_05_A350_Launch.html

[Edited 2006-05-06 15:35:07]
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sat May 06, 2006 10:41 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 26):
FIRM ORDER COMMITMENTS

Rather weaselly use of language, I'd say. What it means is: "a firm commitment to order". In other words, it's the "commitment" that's "firm", not the order. What they want you to read is "firm order". They're being economical with the truth in a way that President Clinton would recognise.

I wish Airbus no ill - indeed, rather the opposite - but I wish they wouldn't be so slimey. It's ultimately self-defeating.
 
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sat May 06, 2006 10:44 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 27):
Rather weaselly use of language, I'd say. What it means is: "a firm commitment to order". In other words, it's the "commitment" that's "firm", not the order. What they want you to read is "firm order". They're being economical with the truth in a way that President Clinton would recognise.

"it all depends on what your definition of is is"?

[Edited 2006-05-06 15:44:22]
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zvezda
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sat May 06, 2006 10:50 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 27):

Rather weaselly use of language, I'd say. What it means is: "a firm commitment to order". In other words, it's the "commitment" that's "firm", not the order. What they want you to read is "firm order". They're being economical with the truth in a way that President Clinton would recognise.

I wish Airbus no ill - indeed, rather the opposite - but I wish they wouldn't be so slimey. It's ultimately self-defeating.

It's disappointing (and, I agree, ultimately self-defeating) when Airbus are so weaselly. I find it even more disappointing when otherwise intelligent Airbus cheerleaders follow their lead.
 
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sat May 06, 2006 11:08 pm

My guess is: They went for Airbus when EADS made that A320 freighter deal with that Russian company. Now Airbus wants to save the announcement for the next airshow.
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sat May 06, 2006 11:23 pm

Maybe the biggest selling point of the A350 played a role again: A330s next year..
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sat May 06, 2006 11:32 pm

Quoting Halibut (Reply 25):
Hi Manni, wave

I have two questions for you :

How many Firm orders does Airbus have , as of April 2006 , for the A350 ???

How many commitments does Airbus have , as of April 2006 , for the A350 ???

Give or take a dozen !

I'm sure you'll be able to answer these questions yourself, after a couple minutes of searching on the net.

However, here's my question to you...

Quoting Halibut (Reply 21):
possible firm orders

What are these?
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sat May 06, 2006 11:48 pm

Part of the B787 versus A350 deal was contigent on the fact if they would be able to get some MD-11 freighters.. Boeing will be able to supply SU with the MD-11 freighters SU wanted...

I'll believe the deal when I see it announced by one of the carriers...

fair use excerpt:

"Aeroflot to take six MD-11 freighters


Move seen as hinting at deal for new Boeing aircraft

Aeroflot is to acquire six Boeing MD-11 freighters in a move widely viewed as a prelude to a contract with Boeing for the supply of 22 long-haul passenger aircraft.

Deputy director for cargo operations Igor Desyatnichenko says Aeroflot has already made an advance payment on the jets and is putting finishing touches to an agreement scheduled to be signed on 31 March."

source:flightinternational.com
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sun May 07, 2006 12:44 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 32):
I'm sure you'll be able to answer these questions yourself, after a couple minutes of searching on the net.

You're dodging my question in an attempt "not" to admit the true order/commitments numbers . Instead of answering a simple question , you continue to twist , turn , dodge & attack others that question your fictional order/commitment equation .

Your inability to answer a simple question ,leads my to believe you simply will not admit to the facts "denial " & in turn answers my question on what kind of Airbus beverage you drink !

Enjoy your Kool Aid !



 biggrin 

Quoting Manni (Reply 32):
Quoting Halibut (Reply 21):
possible firm orders

What are these?

The aledged 22 A350s you were attempting to apply to your fantasy AIRBUS A350 FIRM ORDER COMMITMENTS total .

It's still spectualtion if this order will go to Airbus . See that wasn't too difficult . Now it's you turn .

 cheerful 

Halibut
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sun May 07, 2006 12:52 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 12):
Unfortunately, this "commitments" nonsense which Baseler and Leahy have popularized looks like it's here to stay

That's possible, but it shouldn't worry us. Because....

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 11):
The ultimate arbiter as to what constitutes a firm order, is what is listed on the Airbus and Boeing order pages

These are the only numbers that really matter:- those that are committed to the ORDERS pages on the respective websites (whatever the PR blusterers say)......

Quoting PM (Reply 27):
wish Airbus no ill - indeed, rather the opposite - but I wish they wouldn't be so slimey. It's ultimately self-defeating.

Again, if the words are vague, if you want the truth, follow the actions rather than the words , i.e. what the manufacturers publish in the ORDERS pages on their website. Life becomes very simple if we all follow PanAm_DC10's advice.

It also removes a good excuse for arguments, rants and flamebaiting on A-net.

On second thoughts..... Smile
A
 
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sun May 07, 2006 12:58 am

http://fr.rian.ru/business/20060506/47544745.html

Seems as it is more and more official.

As SU want the plane not before 2014 , there is no problem for Airbus to deliver the frames at this date , even if the A350 is 100% redone.

Now my question : Does SU will stay with 767s till 2014 , or as an interim measure will lease or even buy some 330s ?
 
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sun May 07, 2006 1:00 am

Quoting Halibut (Reply 34):
You're dodging my question in an attempt "not" to admit the true order/commitments numbers .

Keep telling that yourself. I'm not playing your silly games. The answers to your questions are widely available.

Quoting Halibut (Reply 34):
your fantasy AIRBUS A350 FIRM ORDER COMMITMENTS total .

Never used that term, your bias has completely blinded you... Here's were the term is used.

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 26):
AIRBUS A350 FIRM ORDER COMMITMENTS



Quoting Halibut (Reply 34):
Your inability to answer a simple question ,leads my to believe you simply will not admit to the facts "denial " & in turn answers my question on what kind of Airbus beverage you drink !

 Yeah sure Am I really replying to an adult here?
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sun May 07, 2006 1:25 am

Quoting FCKC (Reply 36):
Seems as it is more and more official.

thanks for the link FCKC

if this is correct..which it might be, what happened to all the Airbus cheerleaders (where's Thorben) who say that Boeing wins many of its orders because of politics...and this wasn't a political decision?
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sun May 07, 2006 1:35 am

Good grief Manni,

If you were able to answer my simple question regarding the A350 order/commitments , you could have rectified this situation . However , you continue to carry on with your defiant tyraid . We both know why you will not answer the simple question . You would have to admit that your #'s were off !

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 29):
I find it even more disappointing when otherwise intelligent Airbus cheerleaders follow their lead.

What cheerleaders !  sarcastic 

Quoting PM (Reply 6):
Quoting Manni (Reply 1):
This order would bring the count well over 200

I think it would be prudent to stick to the firm orders on the Airbus website. They currently list 100 so this order (if it happens) would take them to 122. (Let's not count Qatar, GECAS, or any others until the order has been signed.)

Why was your 1st reply deleted Manni ???

Quoting Manni (Reply 37):
Am I really replying to an adult here?



Quoting Manni (Reply 37):
Never used that term, your bias has completely blinded you...

Pot kettle black .

 cheerful 

Halibut
6 million Jews were slaughtered-Do you see Jews flying planes into buildings in Germany to kill 1000s of innocent, NO !
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sun May 07, 2006 2:46 am

 
zvezda
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sun May 07, 2006 2:57 am

Quoting N766UA (Reply 43):
I'm sure Airbus will garner quite a few orders by using their traditional business tactic: cut the price so much that they're practically giving it away.

How do you reconcile that assertion with Airbus' profitability?
 
JayinKitsap
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sun May 07, 2006 3:56 am

Press Release May 1, 2012
Aeroflot announced today that the board has made a decision to purchase 22 A350 instead of the Boeing 787.

Press Release May 2, 2012
Aeroflot announced today that the board didn't meet and will make a decision in the near future between the A350 and the 787.

With this bunch, I might actually believe it when the order is actually posted on either A's or B's website. I will finally believe it when the planes are actually flying in Aeroflot's livery.

Pingpong anyone?
 
CWFan
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sun May 07, 2006 4:10 am

You know, the whole "sending a message to Washington" aspect of the 350 vs 787 story leaves me a little sick. Fine, Aeroflot, you want to award your purchase based on whatever comes out of Cheney's and/or the Administration's mouth (or, as it were, pen)? The 787 won't live or die by the Russian order, that's for sure. Whatever. Boeing can't single-handedly get Russia into the WTO. "Punish" America? Ha! It's going to take more than a handful of planes to turn this Administration around.

As Stephen Colbert recently said, this Adminstration decides on a course of action on Monday and sticks with it on Wednesday, regardless of whatever happens on Tuesday!
 
11Bravo
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sun May 07, 2006 4:23 am

Quoting JayinKitsap (Reply 54):
With this bunch, I might actually believe it when the order is actually posted on either A's or B's website. I will finally believe it when the planes are actually flying in Aeroflot's livery.

Pingpong anyone?

 checkmark 

Agreed; I'll believe it when I see it.

I'm not even sure I'd want them as a customer. I don't know if it's just the Russian Press or SU itself, but there must be some serious doubts about the professionalism and seriousness of this whole thing. It all just seems like mickey-mouse amateur hour to me.
WhaleJets Rule!
 
OlegShv
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sun May 07, 2006 4:45 am

Quoting CWFan (Reply 58):
You know, the whole "sending a message to Washington" aspect of the 350 vs 787 story leaves me a little sick. Fine, Aeroflot, you want to award your purchase based on whatever comes out of Cheney's and/or the Administration's mouth (or, as it were, pen)? The 787 won't live or die by the Russian order, that's for sure. Whatever. Boeing can't single-handedly get Russia into the WTO. "Punish" America? Ha! It's going to take more than a handful of planes to turn this Administration around.

Absolutely agree.  checkmark 
 
dallasnewark
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sun May 07, 2006 5:22 am

Aeroflot will keep flip flopping depending on the politics.
We did not hear the last of that
B732/3/4/5/6/7/8/9, B742/4, B752/3,B762/3/4, B772/3, A306, A318/9/20/21, A332/3, A343/6, MD80/83/88, L1011, TU104/134, F
 
Lumberton
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sun May 07, 2006 6:29 am

Bloomberg (Germany) reports that the order is still "in play"....
Aeroflot Says $3 Billion Plane Decision `Political' (Update2)

Quote:
May 6 (Bloomberg) -- OAO Aeroflot, eastern Europe's largest airline, pushed back its own deadline for awarding a $3 billion jet order to either Airbus SAS or Boeing Co., saying the issue has become ``political.''
``The decision will be political, at the will of the main shareholder, the state,'' Aeroflot Deputy Chief Executive Officer Lev Koshlyakov said by phone in Moscow today. He denied a report in the Vedomosti newspaper that cited a Kremlin official as saying Airbus had been chosen because of the U.S. refusal to let Russia into the World Trade Organization.

So this annoying issue continues to fester, and goes on, and on, and on....
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
sevenforeseven
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sun May 07, 2006 6:45 am

Why can not any of you people give credit to Airbus, perhaps they do have a superiror product.
 
zvezda
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RE: Aeroflot Has Chosen The A350 Over The 787?

Sun May 07, 2006 6:50 am

Quoting Sevenforeseven (Reply 73):
Why can not any of you people give credit to Airbus, perhaps they do have a superiror product.

I give credit to Airbus for offering an A350 that is superior to the B767. Credit where credit is due.  Wink I also prefer the A320 to the B737, though I can't say it's a superior product.