EK156
Topic Author
Posts: 646
Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 8:01 pm

Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sat May 06, 2006 7:13 pm

Etihad announced that it will be placing a big plane order this year and quite soon!!! With Operations to the US commencing in Summer and to Australia staring next Summer, I think Etihad are going full force to catch up with Emirates!!! This is going to be interesting to watch

Etihad also announced that they are opening a new terminal in Dubai for all passengers who wish to check in 24 hours before their flight. They will then be transported to Abu Dhabi Airport FREE OF CHARGE from Dubai! Good one!!!

So what do you think the order will consists of? A mixture of A & B??

http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/06/05/06/10037970.html

I hope this link words. Other wise here it is:

Etihad may place big jet order soon
By Shakir Husain, Staff Reporter



Dubai: Etihad Airways, the UAE's national airline, could place a big aircraft order this year, chairman Dr Shaikh Ahmad Bin Saif Al Nahyan has hinted.

The Abu Dhabi-based airline currently has 29 planes on order.

Asked when the airline could sign another plane purchase order, Shaikh Ahmad said: "Soon ... probably this year."

He suggested the order could be significant because "Etihad started big and will continue big."

"We are still in the mode of receiving new aircraft. We will be receiving until 2008," the Etihad chairman told reporters in Dubai on Thursday.

The airline's order book includes four A380 superjumbos.

The 30-month-old airline aims to service 75 destinations in five years.

It plans to start flying to New York this summer and is currently discussing code-sharing agreements with some American carriers. Flights to Australia could begin next year.

About Etihad's talks to acquire a 33.7 per cent stake in Luxembourg cargo airline Cargolux, Shaikh Ahmad said the negotiations had not advanced.

The talks were "at the same level as before," he said.

Meanwhile, Etihad has opened a new check-in facility in Dubai.

Passengers can now organise their ticketing, security screening and baggage check-in on the ground floor of the Etihad office in Chelsea Towers on Shaikh Zayed Road.

After checking in, the passengers will be taken to Abu Dhabi International Airport by coach.

Etihad recently took delivery of 16 new top-of-the-range Mercedes-Benz coaches to offer connections for any Dubai or Al Ain-based passengers travelling to and from Abu Dhabi International Airport.

"Being able to check in up to 24 hours before flying is a bonus for travellers. It removes the stress of congested queues and lengthy terminal walks," Shaikh Ahmad said.
 
WINGS
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 1:36 am

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sat May 06, 2006 7:18 pm

Do I smell an A380 order?

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
PM
Posts: 4820
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sat May 06, 2006 7:28 pm

Quoting WINGS (Reply 1):
Do I smell an A380 order?

Yes (I assume) plus the 787/A50 contest that has already been mentioned elsewhere plus, I guess, more 777-300ERs or A346s.

772LRs? More A345s? Possibly.

More A330s? Somehow, I doubt it.

My guess? More A346s and A380s plus an order for 787s.  Smile
 
ba1978
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2004 2:25 am

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sat May 06, 2006 7:30 pm

Quoting EK156 (Thread starter):
Etihad announced that it will be placing a big plane order this year and quite soon!!!



Quoting EK156 (Thread starter):
Dubai: Etihad Airways, the UAE's national airline, could place a big aircraft order this year, chairman Dr Shaikh Ahmad Bin Saif Al Nahyan has hinted.

We seem to have a bit of a play on words here! "Could" is a little different to "will"
There are other ways and there's British Airways
 
User avatar
PanAm_DC10
Crew
Posts: 3795
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2000 7:37 am

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sat May 06, 2006 7:33 pm

Quoting WINGS (Reply 1):
Do I smell an A380 order?

That maybe part of it as Airbus have stated they expect follow on orders but here's a clue as to what 20 of the frames will be for;

By Will McSheehy
May 2 (Bloomberg) -- Etihad Airways, a 2-year-old carrier owned by the government of Abu Dhabi, plans to choose between Airbus SAS's new A350 and Boeing Co.'s competing model, the 787 Dreamliner, in the second half of the year.

``We are waiting for answers from Airbus on the technology they will put into the A350 and the impact that will have on delivery dates,'' Etihad Chief Executive Officer Robert Strodel said in an interview in Dubai, United Arab Emirates, today. Etihad will ``make a decision in the second half.''


[END - Fair use excerpt http://www.bloomberg.com ]

Be interesting to see whether they retain an interest, expressed last year, in the 772F.

Regards, PanAm_DC10
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 13241
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sat May 06, 2006 7:33 pm

Quoting BA1978 (Reply 3):
We seem to have a bit of a play on words here! "Could" is a little different to "will"

Not to mention "soon" and "...probably this year".

While this will be interesting, I won't hold my breath.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
EK156
Topic Author
Posts: 646
Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 8:01 pm

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sat May 06, 2006 7:39 pm

Quoting BA1978 (Reply 3):
We seem to have a bit of a play on words here! "Could" is a little different to "will"



Quoting EK156 (Thread starter):
Asked when the airline could sign another plane purchase order, Shaikh Ahmad said: "Soon ... probably this year."

If they put it in Gulf News then Expect it to happen!!! Expecially that they have quoted Sheikh Ahmad which means the order is going through.

I think since they are in need for planes ASAP they will go for more of the 777-300ER's and maybe some A 330's
 
Rainmaker
Posts: 96
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:34 pm

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sat May 06, 2006 8:28 pm

On a side note, can Abu Dhabi's Airport handle all that massive increase in volume due in the folllowing years?

Besides, I find it to be a bit awkward for a business passenger to take a bus from one airport to another. Can't they get a light railway in place?
 
WINGS
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 1:36 am

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sat May 06, 2006 8:31 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 4):

That maybe part of it as Airbus have stated they expect follow on orders but here's a clue as to what 20 of the frames will be for;

Very interesting info PanAm_DC10. It seems that some airlines are eager to see what Airbus will do with the A350 and whether it will offset the latter delivery date.

In case the go for the A350 I'm sure that further A330 will be acquired as stop gap measure.

What power plant have Ethiad chosen for their A330? Is it Rolls Royce? If so they will operate the Trent 500, 700, 900 and possibly the 1700 if they were to opt for the A350.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
PM
Posts: 4820
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sat May 06, 2006 8:41 pm

Quoting WINGS (Reply 8):
What power plant have Ethiad chosen for their A330? Is it Rolls Royce?

Indeed: 14 new-build A330s with RR to replace (augment?) the mixed fleet of GE and PW A330s they initially leased.
 
WINGS
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 1:36 am

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sat May 06, 2006 8:43 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 9):
Indeed: 14 new-build A330s with RR to replace (augment?) the mixed fleet of GE and PW A330s they initially leased

Thanks PM, We can always count on you to keep us up to date in regards to RR.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
PM
Posts: 4820
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sat May 06, 2006 8:48 pm

Quoting WINGS (Reply 10):
Thanks PM, We can always count on you to keep us up to date in regards to RR.

Is it that obvious?!  blush 

Anyway, yes, RR should get something out of another EY order.  Smile
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sat May 06, 2006 8:50 pm

Quoting Rainmaker (Reply 7):
Can't they get a light railway in place?

Light rail is the least cost-effective of all fashionable methods of transportation. Limo service would be much, much less expensive than light rail.
 
WINGS
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 1:36 am

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sat May 06, 2006 8:55 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 12):

Light rail is the least cost-effective of all fashionable methods of transportation. Limo service would be much, much less expensive than light rail.

Well this interesting Zvezda. I would have thought rail to be a more cost effective measure to transport large amount of passengers with out great congestion.

We also should note that rail is also more environmentally friendly.  Wink

Quoting PM (Reply 11):
Is it that obvious?! blush

 Smile

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
EK156
Topic Author
Posts: 646
Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 8:01 pm

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sat May 06, 2006 8:57 pm

Quoting Rainmaker (Reply 7):
On a side note, can Abu Dhabi's Airport handle all that massive increase in volume due in the folllowing years?

Besides, I find it to be a bit awkward for a business passenger to take a bus from one airport to another. Can't they get a light railway in place?

Abu Dhabi started a massive expansion plan for the Airport that will be ready by 2008. As for the Light Railway, the new terminal in Dubai is not at Dubai Airport, it's in the City of Dubai and it has ready Buses to take passengers to and from the Airport. Transportation time is around 45 minutes to 1 hour
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sat May 06, 2006 9:07 pm

Quoting WINGS (Reply 13):
I would have thought rail to be a more cost effective measure to transport large amount of passengers with out great congestion.

That would require great numbers of passengers, which never materialize. Compared on the basis of $/pax kilometer, light rail is the most expensive transportation method in wide use. It is far worse than airplanes, taxis, private cars, coaches, or cruise lines.

Quoting WINGS (Reply 13):
We also should note that rail is also more environmentally friendly.

Also a myth.
 
FCKC
Posts: 1630
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:39 pm

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sat May 06, 2006 9:20 pm

As already mentionned above , Etihad want planes quickly , meaning , an order will be a mixture of some of the types or a selection of only one plane type out of 777-300ERs , A330s , A380s , A345s , A346s , and even 777-200LRs.
But i also expect an order to be delivered later , meaning either the 787 or the A350.

So i see 2 kinds of orders , placing in one order.

1 Quick delivery order
2 In the future delivery order.

Can't be a good opportunity for Airbus to place the A340-600s ordered by Emirates , but the later do not want them in the actual version ?
At Airbus to propose a very sweet deal.
 
Thorben
Posts: 2713
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sat May 06, 2006 10:58 pm

Quoting FCKC (Reply 16):
Can't be a good opportunity for Airbus to place the A340-600s ordered by Emirates , but the later do not want them in the actual version ?

These A346s are probably the only planes they could get fast. A330s and 773ERs both have a lot of backlog, should not have too many slots left.

If they order anything from Airbus, I guess we will hear about it at one of the coming airshows.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
Joni
Posts: 2613
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 11:05 pm

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sat May 06, 2006 11:29 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 15):

That would require great numbers of passengers, which never materialize. Compared on the basis of $/pax kilometer, light rail is the most expensive transportation method in wide use. It is far worse than airplanes, taxis, private cars, coaches, or cruise lines.

Well this depends, as you correctly note, on the number of passengers and also who the cost is incurred to.

For example, in Helsinki (where I live) there are plans to extend the metro to the airport. Then the cost per trip to the passenger could be in fact much lower than taking a bus or taxi, and there's an easy option open for the city to subsidize the trips in order to possibly attract more traffic.

Another important viewpoint is pollution. A rail option (at least here) would run to a large extent on nuclear and hydro power whereas taxis release pollutants directly to the centre of the city, not to mention cause noise, increase traffic levels and are less safe.

I'm not 100% sure if light rail in this contect means a metro, a tram or express trams... however in the Helsinki case a metro is in question.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sat May 06, 2006 11:44 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 12):
Light rail is the least cost-effective of all fashionable methods of transportation. Limo service would be much, much less expensive than light rail.

Wrong. When you actually factor in all costs, road transport is more expensive. Most people seem to ignore that they travel free on government funded roads

Quoting PM (Reply 11):
Anyway, yes, RR should get something out of another EY order.

Trent 1000 perhaps????

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 15):
Quoting WINGS (Reply 13):
We also should note that rail is also more environmentally friendly.

Also a myth.

Again, not a myth. In Germany for example, rail causes 10% of the pollution of air transport, yet carries significantly more people. Further, the French "Grand Strategy" of implementing large scale expansion of light and heavy rail commuter lines dropped their carbon emmissions over 34% from 1973 to 2000 while the US, despite gains in emmissions control technology saw a net gain of 2.5% in the same period.

Quoting Joni (Reply 18):
I'm not 100% sure if light rail in this contect means a metro, a tram or express trams... however in the Helsinki case a metro is in question.

A metro is generally heavy rail. Light rail is trams.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
PM
Posts: 4820
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sat May 06, 2006 11:48 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 19):
Trent 1000 perhaps????

Well, they may as well complete the set.  Wink
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sun May 07, 2006 12:11 am

Quoting Joni (Reply 18):
Well this depends, as you correctly note, on the number of passengers and also who the cost is incurred to.

For example, in Helsinki (where I live) there are plans to extend the metro to the airport. Then the cost per trip to the passenger could be in fact much lower than taking a bus or taxi, and there's an easy option open for the city to subsidize the trips in order to possibly attract more traffic.

In San Francisco, BART was extended to SFO recently. Ridership has been less than half of what was projected. Half is much better than the usual result.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 19):
When you actually factor in all costs, road transport is more expensive. Most people seem to ignore that they travel free on government funded roads

Wrong. Including the cost of construction (for both roads and rail), light rail is the most expensive option by far. Coaches/busses are always cheaper and use far, far less energy and therefore polute less.
 
Aviator27
Posts: 332
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 1:09 pm

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sun May 07, 2006 12:21 am

Buying airplanes is the easy part. Finding qualified pilots and engineers to man those airplanes is going to prove quite difficult as other "Gulf Carriers" have recently found. Even worse, they are expecting to find fully qualified and type-rated Captains just dying for the chance to live in Abu Dhabi. There are plenty of pilots in the world, there just aren't plenty of good qualified ones. Good luck to them is all I can say.
 
Joni
Posts: 2613
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 11:05 pm

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sun May 07, 2006 12:24 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 21):

Wrong. Including the cost of construction (for both roads and rail), light rail is the most expensive option by far. Coaches/busses are always cheaper and use far, far less energy and therefore polute less.

I'd be interested in seeing some figures on that, since it seems to go against what most people think.

I saw some figures, again on Helsinki, and trams fares very well there, the cost of transporting one passenger was significantly less than for buses, not to mention private cars. The metro, however, was still significantly more economical.

A tram can be used for 40 years, whereas cars are often used for only 10 years, or even less.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13730
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sun May 07, 2006 12:35 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 21):
Coaches/busses are always cheaper and use far, far less energy and therefore polute less.

To see this in action, look at a completely profit driven system. The only one I know of is Walt DisneyWorld in Orlando Florida. They build their own roads, rail lines, waterways, etc. And because they provide all transportation "for free" they can't use uneven fares or subsidized pricing to compensate.

They started with a monorail, and have added all sorts of methods from ferries to water launches to buses.

Whenever they expand now, they only use buses.

I talked to a monorail engineer about this while waiting in line for a ride. He's been there for a long time, and he echoed what Zvezda is saying.

They've examined all methods of transport and by far the most cost effective is the bus (motorcoach) and they have amassed a huge fleet of them.

They are always planning a new light rail or monorail line there, and may very well build one for entertainment/"experience" reasons, but it would not be for cost savings. The initial costs per mile are astronomical compared to buses and roads, and each light rail or monorail car is multiple times more expensive than a new bus of the same size.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
 
kdeg00
Posts: 133
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:41 am

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sun May 07, 2006 1:12 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 12):
Light rail is the least cost-effective of all fashionable methods of transportation. Limo service would be much, much less expensive than light rail.

The key term here is "least cost effective". Drop the words "least cost" from the statement and you get to the crux of the argument. Light rail is a significantly more effective means of transportation, period.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 21):
In San Francisco, BART was extended to SFO recently. Ridership has been less than half of what was projected. Half is much better than the usual result.

Using a sprawling US metropolis as a comparison to the effectiveness of a point to point people mover is comparing apples to oranges. To transfer from one Abu Dhabi airport to another would be a no-brainer to the potential customer whereas at SFO you have people coming from an enormous radius requiring transfers, route changes and significant time in travel.
 
a389
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 9:41 pm

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sun May 07, 2006 2:55 am

Quoting EK156 (Reply 14):
Abu Dhabi started a massive expansion plan for the Airport that will be ready by 2008.

AUH is in fact going through a big expansion ... but although things here tend to move faster then anywhere else, 2008 is a bit early... maybe the runway will be operational by then!
Regards
A389
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sun May 07, 2006 3:04 am

Quoting Kdeg00 (Reply 26):
at SFO you have people coming from an enormous radius requiring transfers, route changes and significant time in travel.

Wouldn't these factors have been considered in the original projections of ridership which is allegedly off by 50%?
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
Rainmaker
Posts: 96
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:34 pm

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sun May 07, 2006 3:19 am

Quoting EK156 (Reply 14):
Abu Dhabi started a massive expansion plan for the Airport that will be ready by 2008. As for the Light Railway, the new terminal in Dubai is not at Dubai Airport, it's in the City of Dubai and it has ready Buses to take passengers to and from the Airport. Transportation time is around 45 minutes to 1 hour

Thanks for the correction EK156! Since I couldn't open the link to the original news, I just figured the terminal would be at Dubai Airport. So I think this move from Etihad aims at O&D traffic at Dubai, not connecting passengers.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 12):
Light rail is the least cost-effective of all fashionable methods of transportation. Limo service would be much, much less expensive than light rail.

That depends on scale and externalities. Rail has never been profitable, except for a couple dedicated lines (e.g heavy bulk). Rail systems are used worldwide partly for their superior comfort and speed and part for the positive externality it creates for the area that surrounds it. When I asked that question I was thinking of the massive construction spree currently on Dubai. This city sooner or later will need a mass transportation system in case it doesn't have one yet.

Take care!
 
JayinKitsap
Posts: 627
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sun May 07, 2006 3:37 am

It is my understanding that in the US there are only two rail transit systems that cover their operating costs (I think NY and Chicago) from the farebox. None cover the capital costs. New urban rail construction is coming in at higher cost than a 4 lane freeway. So as the farebox doesn't cover operating costs and the capital cost of the road is equal or less than the rail the taxpayer is on the hook for at least as much.

In SEA the new commuter rail service from Everett to downtown is a marvel of low cost transportation. The current fare is $4, Sound Transits optimistic projections of ridership put operating costs at $ 38.57/each. As ridership has been well below projections the cost is sky high. Meanwhile the Metro Transit buses had a 2002 cost of $3.98/each passenger. For Seattle it would have been cheaper for the taxpayer to build dedicated busways along the trunk routes and not charge fares.

The above is for the US, other countries with higher train utilization may be far better. I don't know the underlying funding (ie is farebox the only revenue source), but Japan's railways are private companies. The ridership there is just incredible so it is possible the farebox covers the costs and is by far the least cost means of transport.
 
Joni
Posts: 2613
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 11:05 pm

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sun May 07, 2006 7:44 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 25):
Here are a few links:

Thanks for the links. I got, however, a bit odd a picture of the light-rail systems they were discussing and I can agree with you that badly planned and executed light-rail projects tend to be cost-ineffective.

the Federal Transit Administration reported in 2000 that each new trip on the Hiawatha light rail line in Minneapolis would cost a projected $18.57�and this was before the cost of the line escalated more than 50 percent.

In Helsinki, the cost of a light-rail trip ticket is around 1 euro, and the city subsidizes mass transit to the tune of 50% so the entire cost is 2 euros. If you plug that into the graph in the page pointed to by your last link the leased BMW X-5 looks a lot less attractive.
 
FFlyer
Posts: 552
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2001 6:46 am

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sun May 07, 2006 8:17 am

Joni; who pays the capital (construction) costs in the Helsinki tram system? The city, or does the government also pay a part of those?
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 22938
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sun May 07, 2006 8:31 am

I guess it depends on the land, as well. Here in SEA, we're putting in light rail at about $500 million a mile, but expanding the central highway (Interstate 5) would run much more then that due to right-of-way issues (I-5 is hemmed in on both sides by development).

However, out in the desert, I imagine road is much cheaper then rail.
 
atmx2000
Posts: 4301
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:24 pm

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sun May 07, 2006 9:42 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 21):
Wrong. Including the cost of construction (for both roads and rail), light rail is the most expensive option by far. Coaches/busses are always cheaper and use far, far less energy and therefore polute less.

Buses and road systems are much less sensitive to maintenance issues, with far less catastrophic results.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 24):
They've examined all methods of transport and by far the most cost effective is the bus (motorcoach) and they have amassed a huge fleet of them.

They are always planning a new light rail or monorail line there, and may very well build one for entertainment/"experience" reasons, but it would not be for cost savings. The initial costs per mile are astronomical compared to buses and roads, and each light rail or monorail car is multiple times more expensive than a new bus of the same size.

A bus and road network are so much more flexible than a rail system, so it really is no surprise. You really need a high population density and/or a captive market to make rail systems viable.

Quote:
Further, the French "Grand Strategy" of implementing large scale expansion of light and heavy rail commuter lines dropped their carbon emmissions over 34% from 1973 to 2000 while the US, despite gains in emmissions control technology saw a net gain of 2.5% in the same period.

But isn't that more a function of electrification and nuclear power production? It tells you nothing about energy efficiency. And it masks the investment in nuclear power production.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
intothinair
Posts: 388
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 3:05 pm

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sun May 07, 2006 10:04 am

I guess we will see an order of:
Another 10-15 A330s for delivery around mid 2007 onwards
Another 10 777-300ERs delivery 2008 onwards
5-10 777-200LRs delivery around 2008 onwards
20-30 787s or A350, my bet is on the 787 delivery 2010 onwards
That would make around 55 new airplanes over the next 5 years or so
seem realistic?

cheers, Konstantin G.
 
aa1818
Posts: 1515
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sun May 07, 2006 11:46 am

Quoting Intothinair (Reply 35):
I guess we will see an order of:
Another 10-15 A330s for delivery around mid 2007 onwards
Another 10 777-300ERs delivery 2008 onwards
5-10 777-200LRs delivery around 2008 onwards
20-30 787s or A350, my bet is on the 787 delivery 2010 onwards
That would make around 55 new airplanes over the next 5 years or so
seem realistic?

IMHO no more A330s and more 77-300ER. I believe that this a/c will be the backbone of Etihad. Also more 787s and expect delivery sooner if Boeing opens a second production line. Also expect the 787-10X if announced soon instead of the 772LR since airlines in the UAE don't necessarily need the 772LR's capabilities.

My prediction
More A380s
More 773ERs
Either A350/ 787- too early to tell- they haven't exactly specified the actual class/ size etc that they need.

Don't expect an order soon- lots of things will affect this order
- Airbus clean-sheeting the A350
- Airbus launching an A340E
- Boeing second 787 production line
- Airbus finalizing the A350 specs
- price of oil
- Boeing launcing the 787-10X
- Production slot availability

Cheers
AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sun May 07, 2006 12:06 pm

Quoting JayinKitsap (Reply 30):
It is my understanding that in the US there are only two rail transit systems that cover their operating costs (I think NY and Chicago) from the farebox.

I actually believe neither do... both systems are funded not just from the farebox but by tax revenue as well.

Washington DC's Metro comes the closest to operating entirely from the farebox... practically no funds are available to Metro from the jurisdictions it serves.

N
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Sun May 07, 2006 1:41 pm

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 37):
Quoting JayinKitsap (Reply 30):
It is my understanding that in the US there are only two rail transit systems that cover their operating costs (I think NY and Chicago) from the farebox.

I actually believe neither do... both systems are funded not just from the farebox but by tax revenue as well.

Washington DC's Metro comes the closest to operating entirely from the farebox... practically no funds are available to Metro from the jurisdictions it serves.

All mass transit in Northeastern Illinois & Northwest Indiana benefiit from substantial governmental subsidies. Over the past 60+ years each component of the transit system including buses (and formerly light rail), rapid transit, and commuter rail was gradually absorbed by governmental and quasi-governmental entities/agencies.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
khi747
Posts: 1532
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2000 6:30 am

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Mon May 08, 2006 1:01 am

I think EY has always had the transportation service to and from DXB.I flew EY from KHI to AUH in December and i was transported to Dubai in a Mercedes E class.Two days later i had to fly AUH-BRU and they also sent an E class to pick me in Dubai.All J class pax are entitled to this limo service and it will take or pick you up from any point in the UAE!

That was just about the best part of my experience with EY infact.A joke of a J class in both the B763(KHI-AUH-KHI) and specially the leased A332(AUH-BRU-AUH).Having said that i cant wait to fly the J class on their new B773ER.
 
TIA
Posts: 443
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:42 am

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Mon May 08, 2006 2:08 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 24):
They've examined all methods of transport and by far the most cost effective is the bus (motorcoach) and they have amassed a huge fleet of them.

But as it was already said, you are ignoring the cost of the streets themselves. Obviously it is less expensive for Disney to put more buses on the road than to build a new rail line, because the streets are already there, and considering the weather in Florida, they don't need much maintenance.

How about this for a comparison: Which one is more expensive right now, building a new rail line from somewhere on Long Island to Manhatten, or building a new four lane highway? It's pretty obvious that if you have the space, not too much traffic and a decent road system in place, a bus would be cheaper, but under other conditions a rail line can be more cost effective.

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 37):
Quoting JayinKitsap (Reply 30):
It is my understanding that in the US there are only two rail transit systems that cover their operating costs (I think NY and Chicago) from the farebox.

I actually believe neither do... both systems are funded not just from the farebox but by tax revenue as well.

Washington DC's Metro comes the closest to operating entirely from the farebox... practically no funds are available to Metro from the jurisdictions it serves.

Yes, in NY, the farebox doesn't cover all costs. However, I thought that in NY the fare covered the highest portion of costs than in any other system in the US, at least that's what you hear when the MTA tries to raise fares.
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Mon May 08, 2006 2:28 am

Quoting TIA (Reply 40):
How about this for a comparison: Which one is more expensive right now, building a new rail line from somewhere on Long Island to Manhatten, or building a new four lane highway?

The new rail line would be several times more expensive than the four lane highway.
 
Joni
Posts: 2613
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 11:05 pm

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Mon May 08, 2006 2:30 am

Quoting FFlyer (Reply 32):
Joni; who pays the capital (construction) costs in the Helsinki tram system? The city, or does the government also pay a part of those?

The maintenance of the track system is paid by the utility running the trams, e.g. from the tickets sold and city subsidies 50/50. Initial building costs of the tracks have been paid for already decades ago.

An important point is that we're discussing an urban, as opposed to suburban, area and the culture of using the trams (or public transit more generally) is ingrained pretty deep in people's minds.
 
zbrox
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:57 am

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Mon May 08, 2006 6:32 am

Perhabs our friends from the UAE can correct me on this if I'm wrong.

A railway from Dubai to AUH is not going to happen. One of the reasons is that it would go through two "states". And Dubai does not have any interest in seeing pax leaving the emirate of Dubai in order to fly out of an airport in the emirate of Abu Dhabi.

The highway between the two cities is superb . About 150 km's i think. 3-6 lanes in each direction and once you leave Dubai it's very little traffic.
As the "terminal" would be on Sheik Zayed Rd you must also take into consideration that it's on its way to AUH. And on the hotel + business side of town.
I'd say that you should expect a 20 min drive to DXB. So it's only a 30-40 min difference. Plus that you will come to what i understand is a much less crowded airport.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Mon May 08, 2006 6:41 am

UAE's Etihad Airways wants to buy 5 cargo planes



May 7, 2006

ABU DHABI (Reuters)

Abu Dhabi's Etihad Airways is looking to buy five cargo planes and could choose between U.S. manufacturer Boeing's 777 and a freighter designed by European plane maker Airbus, a company official said on Sunday.

Ingo Roessler, Etihad's vice-president of cargo, said the company was studying Boeing's 777 freighters but was also interested in the design of Airbus A330/200.

"Of course it is still being designed but we feel that the A330/200 is an option," Roessler told Reuters.

He said Etihad's evaluation of the Boeing's 777 was at a more advanced stage but declined to say when a deal was likely to be closed. He also would not comment on the value of the order.

More information at NDTV Profit.com
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
TIA
Posts: 443
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:42 am

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Mon May 08, 2006 7:42 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 41):
Quoting TIA (Reply 40):
How about this for a comparison: Which one is more expensive right now, building a new rail line from somewhere on Long Island to Manhatten, or building a new four lane highway?

The new rail line would be several times more expensive than the four lane highway.

Wrong! There is no room for a new highway and all property is quite expensive. However, you can always put a train underground. As I said, if you have plenty of room, building a new highway will be a cheaper, but if you don't, a train is more cost effective. After all, there is a reason why all the new major transportation projects in the NYC metro area involve rail, and there is no talk of new highways.
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2251
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Mon May 08, 2006 8:05 am

From someone living in a sprawling city run almost entirely on buses (Auckland) and having experienced the mass transit light rail/metro systems of Europe and Asia, I can absolutely assure you that rail is better.

1. Less stress, even when things go wrong, they are usually nowhere near as bad as whemn things go wrong on the roads
2. Time - a 30 minute trip in Auckland by bus is covered in 5 minutes in other cities by metro (eg. London, Paris, Toulouse, Barcelona)...extra time = better lifestyle or improved productivity
3. Metros encourage social activity as convenience ensures quick and easy access to facilities etc.

All these externatlities should be taken into consideration when doing a cost-benefit analysis of road vs rail. But they usually aren't becasue they are so difficult to quantify.

We can thank the dominance of roads for the massive inefficient suburban sprawls we see consuming the countryside and prohibiting social interaction and development. I believe in Houston, the reliance on the car has seen the city stop building footpaths, becasue people just don't use them. Hence, they get fatter and more unhealthy. So what about those externalities?
 
behramjee
Posts: 4325
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Mon May 08, 2006 8:11 am

Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 44):
Abu Dhabi's Etihad Airways is looking to buy five cargo planes and could choose between U.S. manufacturer Boeing's 777 and a freighter designed by European plane maker Airbus, a company official said on Sunday.

Ingo Roessler, Etihad's vice-president of cargo, said the company was studying Boeing's 777 freighters but was also interested in the design of Airbus A330/200.

"Of course it is still being designed but we feel that the A330/200 is an option," Roessler told Reuters

I can assure u that EY have no patience for Airbus to get their act together with regards to the A 332F. The B 772LRF can carry more cargo volume + fly further + has better operating characteristics. You can bet your money on a B 772LRF order.

As far as the pax acft go...the time of delivery will play a vital key role on EYs choice of aircraft. They want widebody planes FAST i.e. 2008 delivery.
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Mon May 08, 2006 8:12 am

Quoting TIA (Reply 45):
you can always put a train underground.

One can also put a highway underground, which is very expensive, but not as expensive as putting rail underground.

Quoting TIA (Reply 45):
After all, there is a reason why all the new major transportation projects in the NYC metro area involve rail, and there is no talk of new highways.

That is about politics, not economics.
 
Thorben
Posts: 2713
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: Etihad To Place A Massive Plane Order

Mon May 08, 2006 5:00 pm

Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 44):

The whole issue with the A332 freighter shows that Airbus slept in that segment. Did they really believe that the A300F could go on forever?? The A332F is long over-due and I hope they come out with an A350F before the A330 reaches the age the A300 has now.

Maybe the QR intention to buy 777s was the wake-up call for Airbus. (Because I believe they only wanted T7s because of the freighter.)

Better have the A332F ready when EY makes its decision. Cargo seems to be very important for the Middle Eastern carriers and they might make thei pax jet decisions on which manufacturer gives them the better freighter.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011