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1337Delta764
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Is The 737-800 Really Delta's 727 Replacement?

Mon May 08, 2006 6:40 am

While it can clearly be agreed on that the 767-400ER is Delta's L-1011 replacement as most of its routes are former L-1011 routes, it is harder to say that the 737-800 is Delta's 727 replacement. While Delta claims this, I have noticed that most of the destinations formerly served by 727s are now served by MD-88s. I really wish Delta would have kept the 737-800 in ABQ. Any thoughts on this?
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Alitalia744
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RE: Is The 737-800 Really Delta's 727 Replacement?

Mon May 08, 2006 7:53 am

Originally, the MD90 was DL's replacement aircraft for the 727. Given the a/c wasn't filling it's intended shoes, DL ordered 738s to replace the rest of the 727s.

DL doesn't have anywhere near enough 738s so naturally some routes need to be replaced with the -88. Also, 738s are being routed on longer routes as more domestic capacity is pulled and sent either across the ponds, south of the border, or to mojave.
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skibum9
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RE: Is The 737-800 Really Delta's 727 Replacement?

Mon May 08, 2006 8:05 am

Also don't forget, DL is reducing domestic capacity. Back when the 727 was around, fares were higher, and DL could run them into cities without worrying too much about loads and yeilds. Today is an entirely different story and there is much more a need to match the appropriate aircraft with the appropriate city to maximize yeild. As such, and because of the reduction in domestic capacity, many cities have seen a down-sizing of the type of aircraft DL uses.
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jfklganyc
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RE: Is The 737-800 Really Delta's 727 Replacement?

Mon May 08, 2006 8:14 am

"Today is an entirely different story and there is much more a need to match the appropriate aircraft with the appropriate city to maximize yeild. As such, and because of the reduction in domestic capacity, many cities have seen a down-sizing of the type of aircraft DL uses."

Couldn't agree more. Many old 727 routes are now served by RJs.

Example: BOS-BGR

Many old 767 routes are now served by 757s and 738s.

JFK-LAX; BOS-LAX

And it's not just Delta; it's the US Airline industry.

Remember the days when routes like LGA-ORD were flown with DC 10s and ORD-MKE were flown with 727s.

I remember flying a 727 from SLC to Bozeman Montana back in the early 90s.

It wasn't that long ago. . . but a lot has changed.

PJ
 
twal1011727
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RE: Is The 737-800 Really Delta's 727 Replacement?

Mon May 08, 2006 11:37 am

To me its absurd that Delta uses the MD88's on flts from CVG/ATL to cities like TUS/PHX or any other 3+ Hr flt. The MD88 cannot make it non-stop to these cities (depending on upper alt winds going eastbound) and have to flagstop to get more fuel. The B737-800 easily makes it without a problem. In fact they use one on a LAX-ATL flt pretty much daily...

DL's B727 held 149 pax/3 pilots/guzzling noisy engines compared to the B737-800's 150 pax/2 pilots/highly effecient fuel stingy quiet engines...BIG difference.

So....why they insist on MD88's to the west....I guess thats why were not in the A/C scheduling department.

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twal1011727
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RE: Is The 737-800 Really Delta's 727 Replacement?

Tue May 09, 2006 1:38 am

Quoting TWAL1011727 (Reply 4):
depending on upper alt winds going eastbound)

Sorry....that should read going westbound against an eastbound jet stream.
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Alitalia744
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RE: Is The 737-800 Really Delta's 727 Replacement?

Tue May 09, 2006 2:10 am

Quoting TWAL1011727 (Reply 4):
To me its absurd that Delta uses the MD88's on flts from CVG/ATL to cities like TUS/PHX or any other 3+ Hr flt. The MD88 cannot make it non-stop to these cities (depending on upper alt winds going eastbound) and have to flagstop to get more fuel. The B737-800 easily makes it without a problem. In fact they use one on a LAX-ATL flt pretty much daily...

Depends on the jetstreams and more than not these flights go out non-stop. All airlines were making stops. AA flies MD80s from ORD-LAX/SFO and nobody complains...
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CWAFlyer
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RE: Is The 737-800 Really Delta's 727 Replacement?

Tue May 09, 2006 2:39 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 6):
Depends on the jetstreams and more than not these flights go out non-stop. All airlines were making stops. AA flies MD80s from ORD-LAX/SFO and nobody complains...

I remember TWA MD80's routinely making fuel stops in PHX going
STL-ONT or STL-PSP because of headwinds.
 
skibum9
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RE: Is The 737-800 Really Delta's 727 Replacement?

Tue May 09, 2006 2:45 am

Quoting TWAL1011727 (Reply 4):
To me its absurd that Delta uses the MD88's on flts from CVG/ATL to cities like TUS/PHX or any other 3+ Hr flt. The MD88 cannot make it non-stop to these cities (depending on upper alt winds going eastbound) and have to flagstop to get more fuel. The B737-800 easily makes it without a problem. In fact they use one on a LAX-ATL flt pretty much daily...

And how often does this really happen? Looking at DL381, which as an MD88 which goes from CVG to PHX, all the way back to Dec. 1, I see only about 10 diversions, mostly into ABQ, during that period. Considering that is 6 months worth of flights, it is only about 6% of the total flights. It also looks like it was around the same period that B6 was having to make fuel stops in their A320s when going westbound from JFK. So it is not unusal.
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DualQual
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RE: Is The 737-800 Really Delta's 727 Replacement?

Tue May 09, 2006 8:46 am

Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 8):
It also looks like it was around the same period that B6 was having to make fuel stops in their A320s when going westbound from JFK.

Did they really? I knew that they had to make stops eastbound out of LGB due to runway closures and the subsequent weight restrictions.
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GQfluffy
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RE: Is The 737-800 Really Delta's 727 Replacement?

Tue May 09, 2006 10:54 am

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 3):
I remember flying a 727 from SLC to Bozeman Montana back in the early 90s.

It wasn't that long ago. . . but a lot has changed.

Yup. Almost every city in MT in the '90's were served by '27s from SLC. I even remember one summer in HLN that DL would fly 757's up for a morning flight back to SLC. BIL saw the MD-90 from time to time as well. Now the only city in Montana that still has mainline service is BZN. There's even talk of a 738 from BZN to ATL this summer...but I think it's just in the "rumor stage"...
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skibum9
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RE: Is The 737-800 Really Delta's 727 Replacement?

Tue May 09, 2006 12:49 pm

Quoting DualQual (Reply 9):

Did they really? I knew that they had to make stops eastbound out of LGB due to runway closures and the subsequent weight restrictions.

Yep, looking at the history of JBU95, which is JFK to OAK, for the same 6 month period, they had about 13 diversions into mostly DEN or SLC.
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kc135topboom
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RE: Is The 737-800 Really Delta's 727 Replacement?

Tue May 09, 2006 1:21 pm

The jetstream winds (across the CONUS) are usually stronger in the winter months, compared to the summer months. That is why the JB A-320s and DL MD-88s have a range problem during those months.

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