TG992
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Air NZ To Reuse Flight Number 901

Wed May 10, 2006 9:10 am

Just noticed in the draft Tasman Network Agreement (cooperation on the Tasman routes with Qantas) that a MEL-AKL flight will be numbered NZ901. (Operated by a combination of A320 and B777).

I find this surprising, since 901 was the flight number for the NZ DC10 that crashed in 1979. Does anyone have any other examples of fatal flight numbers being reused after a time?
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jetjack74
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RE: Air NZ To Reuse Flight Number 901

Wed May 10, 2006 9:27 am

Quoting TG992 (Thread starter):
Does anyone have any other examples of fatal flight numbers being reused after a time?

At NW:
NW305-The flight number for the DB Cooper hijacking
MKE-MSP-LAX
NW255
DTW-SEA
Was used for a short time a few years ago. Was the 7:20pm DC10 to SEA.

I'm sure there has been a few. I doubt that AA would 191 for a ORD-LAX, or a UAL would use 232 for DEN-ORD flight, but as time goes on, I bet they would use thwm again. My question, is there a sensitivity clause that airlines promise, not to use a flight number for a certain amount of time? Maybe.
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commavia
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RE: Air NZ To Reuse Flight Number 901

Wed May 10, 2006 12:26 pm

Quoting TG992 (Thread starter):
Does anyone have any other examples of fatal flight numbers being reused after a time?

AA still uses flight 1, JFK-LAX, even though a 707 carrying that flight number crashed in the 1950s or 1960s.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Air NZ To Reuse Flight Number 901

Wed May 10, 2006 1:41 pm

I suppose that technically since the Erebus flight was TE901 and this flight is NZ901 they could say it is different , however , it does seem poor judgement to recycle this number unneccessarily , there are not so many flights that they couldn't simply skip a number to avoid it and I would think that if there is enough negative feedback on this they will re-number the flight ( at least I would hope so ) - can't say that I would avoid it myself , but I can imagine that for those who lost loved ones on TE901 this would be an unwelcome reminder
 
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NZ107
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RE: Air NZ To Reuse Flight Number 901

Wed May 10, 2006 2:53 pm

What happened to the flights on 9/11? eg. UA93- Does this flight still exist?

Is Air NZ planning to change all of its flight numbers across the Tasman?
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ZK-NBT
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RE: Air NZ To Reuse Flight Number 901

Wed May 10, 2006 3:01 pm

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 4):
What happened to the flights on 9/11? eg. UA93- Does this flight still exist?

No I don't think so.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 4):
s Air NZ planning to change all of its flight numbers across the Tasman?

Mainly the ones that are operated by A320's. Also the A320's on the Pacific Island runs will change to NZ8__ series.
 
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Zkpilot
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RE: Air NZ To Reuse Flight Number 901

Wed May 10, 2006 3:04 pm

Perhaps it was some youngin born in the 80's in flight planning who came up with the idea.... not the smartest idea.... many people still hurt when thinking about TE901...
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NZ1
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RE: Air NZ To Reuse Flight Number 901

Wed May 10, 2006 6:35 pm

Quoting TG992 (Thread starter):
Just noticed in the draft Tasman Network Agreement (cooperation on the Tasman routes with Qantas) that a MEL-AKL flight will be numbered NZ901.

Is it to maybe align with SJ, as I have noticed a lot of their flights start with a 9.

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TG992
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RE: Air NZ To Reuse Flight Number 901

Wed May 10, 2006 6:59 pm

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 4):
Is Air NZ planning to change all of its flight numbers across the Tasman?



Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 5):
Mainly the ones that are operated by A320's. Also the A320's on the Pacific Island runs will change to NZ8__ series

All flights on A320 will be 700-899, from the Air NZ intranet.

The existing 100-299 and 44-75 flight numbers will be retained for aircraft other than A320’s. eg the 767 service NZ103 AKL-SYD
Tasman and Short haul Pacific flights operated by A320’s will have numbers in the new 700-899 range, and will be specifically for A320 aircraft. A small range in the 900 series has also been assigned for A320’s on Domestic routes.
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koruman
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RE: Air NZ To Reuse Flight Number 901

Wed May 10, 2006 7:36 pm

The 700, 800, 900 series are Air New Zealand A320 flights across the Tasman and to APW / TBU / NAN and RAR which are operated by (cheaper) Freedom Air staff.

The planes legally are sub-leased to Freedom Air, but retain their Air NZ livery (and many of them are being repainted from Freedom to NZ colours).

The idea is flawed really: many passengers flying on Freedom tickets in Freedom planes with Freedom crew (e.g. Gold Coast to NZ) see that they board a plane in Air NZ colours and will just assume that Air NZ is a non-full service airline, and are probably less likely to ever choose to fly Air NZ long-haul. Freedom should just be re-launched as Air NZ lite now.
 
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Zkpilot
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RE: Air NZ To Reuse Flight Number 901

Wed May 10, 2006 10:06 pm

Quoting Koruman (Reply 9):
The planes legally are sub-leased to Freedom Air, but retain their Air NZ livery (and many of them are being repainted from Freedom to NZ colours).

The idea is flawed really: many passengers flying on Freedom tickets in Freedom planes with Freedom crew (e.g. Gold Coast to NZ) see that they board a plane in Air NZ colours and will just assume that Air NZ is a non-full service airline, and are probably less likely to ever choose to fly Air NZ long-haul. Freedom should just be re-launched as Air NZ lite now.

Onboard, for Freedom services the aircraft have the headrest covers in Freedom trim, the crew will be wearing Freedom uniforms.
For NZ services, the trim goes back to NZ style, the crew wear NZ uniforms, and the food&beverage service resumes.
NZ and freedom have been swapping A320's/737s for some time as/when needed and customers haven't complained and/or noticed besides the outside of the plane not being yellow (which you can't see from inside the plane by the way)
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AirCop
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RE: Air NZ To Reuse Flight Number 901

Wed May 10, 2006 10:13 pm

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 4):
What happened to the flights on 9/11? eg. UA93- Does this flight still exist?

This flight appears to be UA 191 these days. Notice the numbers involved.
 
pecoua
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RE: Air NZ To Reuse Flight Number 901

Thu May 11, 2006 1:07 am

Don't forget Eastern 401...that flight was the everglades crash in 1972, bit the flt number contined for years after...
 
DL4EVR
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RE: Air NZ To Reuse Flight Number 901

Thu May 11, 2006 1:50 am

DL 173....now used for CVG-ATL.
We Love To Fly And It Shows.
 
PanAm747
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RE: Air NZ To Reuse Flight Number 901

Thu May 11, 2006 3:36 am

I think the first crash where the number was remembered would probably be either PSA 182 in San Diego or AA 191 in Chicago. Before that, it wasn't common to report the flight number.

In a retrospective on the 25th anniversary of the PSA crash, several stories were told by people close to the accident. One of whom was a person who took the same flight the next day, and was horrified to find that "flight #182" was still the scheduled number.

Let me give you an example: without researching it, what was the flight number of:

1) The Turkish DC-10 that crashed near Paris in 1974?
2) The BEA Trident that crashed after take-off from London in 1972?
3) The Air India 707 that crashed on approach to Geneva in 1966?

Now can you tell me the flight numbers of:

1) The Delta L-1011 that crashed on approach to DFW in 1985?
2) The United DC-10 that crashed making an emergency landing at SUX in 1989?
3) The TWA 747 that exploded near Long Island in 1996?

Crash identification by flight number is a fairly new phenomenon.
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AirplaneDork
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RE: Air NZ To Reuse Flight Number 901

Thu May 11, 2006 6:17 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 14):
Now can you tell me the flight numbers of:

1) The Delta L-1011 that crashed on approach to DFW in 1985?

Flight 191, same as the AA DC-10 out of ORD. Three large airliner accidents have been flight 191s.
To fly, the dream of man and flightless bird alike!
 
MakeMinesLAX
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RE: Air NZ To Reuse Flight Number 901

Thu May 11, 2006 6:52 am

Quoting AirCop (Reply 11):
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 4):
What happened to the flights on 9/11? eg. UA93- Does this flight still exist?

This flight appears to be UA 191 these days. Notice the numbers involved.



Quoting AirplaneDork (Reply 15):
Flight 191, same as the AA DC-10 out of ORD. Three large airliner accidents have been flight 191s.

Talk about tempting fate!

Two additional standout flight numbers are KE 007 and PA 103.
 
dc863
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RE: Air NZ To Reuse Flight Number 901

Thu May 11, 2006 7:28 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 14):
) The Turkish DC-10 that crashed near Paris in 1974?
2) The BEA Trident that crashed after take-off from London in 1972?
3) The Air India 707 that crashed on approach to Geneva in 1966?

TK 981
BE 548
AI 101?
 
galleyhag
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RE: Air NZ To Reuse Flight Number 901

Thu May 11, 2006 7:51 am

BD still use the same flight number that crashed at Kegworth although I am a bit rubbish because I don't know off the top of my head what it is?!! But I know it is still the same flight number.
 
galleyhag
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RE: Air NZ To Reuse Flight Number 901

Thu May 11, 2006 7:57 am

Quoting Galleyhag (Reply 18):
BD still use the same flight number that crashed at Kegworth although I am a bit rubbish because I don't know off the top of my head what it is?!! But I know it is still the same flight number.

It was BD 092 which still operates LHR-BFS, just found it out!
 
PanAm747
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RE: Air NZ To Reuse Flight Number 901

Thu May 11, 2006 11:47 am

Quote:
Three large airliner accidents have been flight 191s.

AA 191 at ORD, and DL 191 at DFW. UA 232 was Sioux city.

Was there a third 191 crash?
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
Flyer88
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RE: Air NZ To Reuse Flight Number 901

Thu May 11, 2006 3:32 pm

Quoting Koruman (Reply 9):
The planes legally are sub-leased to Freedom Air, but retain their Air NZ livery (and many of them are being repainted from Freedom to NZ colours).



Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 10):
Onboard, for Freedom services the aircraft have the headrest covers in Freedom trim, the crew will be wearing Freedom uniforms.

Are they going to repaint the SJ aircrafts? Thats a shame cause I really like their color scheme
I also heard that the SJ uniforms are going and they will all wear the NZ uniform regardless of it being a SJ or NZ flight
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: Air NZ To Reuse Flight Number 901

Thu May 11, 2006 3:37 pm

Quoting Flyer88 (Reply 21):
Are they going to repaint the SJ aircrafts?

Just 1 remains in SJ colours now and it now wears the Warner Bros Colour scheme. ZK-OJO.
 
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NZ1
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RE: Air NZ To Reuse Flight Number 901

Thu May 11, 2006 4:31 pm

Quoting Koruman (Reply 9):
and many of them are being repainted from Freedom to NZ colours



Quoting Flyer88 (Reply 21):
Are they going to repaint the SJ aircrafts?

As ZK-NBT said, ZK-OJO is the sole remaining yellow A320, and will stay that way for the medium term. OJK and OJL have been painted white, and leased to two other carriers for 12 months.

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joffie
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RE: Air NZ To Reuse Flight Number 901

Thu May 11, 2006 7:28 pm

http://www.answers.com/topic/flight-191?hl=flight&hl=191

There you go, three crashes involving flight number 191  Wow!

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