bahadir
Posts: 1281
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 4:57 pm

Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Wed May 10, 2006 3:33 pm

Turkish news TV NTV is reporting that Turkish Airlines' privatisation may take place as soon as next month. The report talked about government reducing its shares to less than 50%. I am not sure if this will done issuing more shares through Istanbul Stock Exchange or block sale though..
Earthbound misfit I
 
robcol99
Posts: 198
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 1:59 am

RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Wed May 10, 2006 10:53 pm

This will be through share sales on the stock exchange.
The third public offering for THY shares.

I would expect most of the shares to be sold to investment banks etc.
 
gokmengs
Posts: 894
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Wed May 10, 2006 11:35 pm

Selam Bahadir and Robcol99;
Its funny Bahadir that you have started this thread since I was going to(and probably still will) post a rant reply on the thread about TK's new Business class product here:http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/2759792/
TK owes whatever positive rep. it has to its people, the FA's and its pilots its top notch MX crew. As far as the management and how the airline is run and directed to future is just a shame, if TK does go private it would be a true world class airline from fleet to route structure to its FF program to PR to its website, many factors that this AKP appointed management messes up. Its my biggest wish that the flagship carrier of Turkey can be saved from the management its running it right now and,can become an airline company that can start the positive tourist experience for any visiting tourist, thus proving and correcting the perceived image of Turkey by many.
P.S. pre AKP management(Mr. Kozlu) was a different story I think they did a terrific job, to bad for AKP Mr.Kozlu's wife doesn't wear a turban so they had to let him go.
Gercekleri Tarih Yazar Tarihide Galatasaray
 
emrecan
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Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2000 7:20 am

RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Thu May 11, 2006 3:14 am

Gokmengs:

I think you don`t know so much about Turkey. AKP didn`t send Mr. Kozlu. Mr.Kozlu has left TK by himself.
By the way at the moment TK is growing well and they are on `plus` economically.
How you can explain that TK is managed so bad at the moment?

Nobody can say that at the moment TK is managed perfect at the moment. There are lots of things to do. But also you cannot say ` directed to future is just a shame`
 
gokmengs
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Thu May 11, 2006 4:14 am

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 3):
I think you don`t know so much about Turkey. AKP didn`t send Mr. Kozlu. Mr.Kozlu has left TK by himself.
By the way at the moment TK is growing well and they are on `plus` economically.
How you can explain that TK is managed so bad at the moment?

Nobody can say that at the moment TK is managed perfect at the moment. There are lots of things to do. But also you cannot say ` directed to future is just a shame`

Selam Emrecan FYI I'm Turkish, the flag just represents my location thats all, I live both in IST and in NY I fly the route once a month at least, but not with TK. I use TK for my intra EU and IST-Asia flights.
Back to the subject, why do you think Kozlu left? I am sure being a Turk you know for damn sure that every govt makes "changes" in managements of Govt. owned organizations(in Turkish Kadrolasma) and thats what happened with Kozlu.

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 3):
How you can explain that TK is managed so bad at the moment?

1)Hiring frickin Cemil Ipekci for interior design and decoration as well as visual director- arguably a fine designer when it comes to clothes but has no experience in commercial aviation what so ever?
2)Extremely overdue and fleet decisions.
3)Couldn't perepare TK for the aviation boom and Turkey, and are short on pilots because they have no vision.
4)Extremely poor PR.
I can go on if you want.
I love TK don't get me wrong, but its potential is so big yet decision makers ruin for everyone
Gercekleri Tarih Yazar Tarihide Galatasaray
 
emrecan
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Thu May 11, 2006 4:31 am

Selam Gokmengs:

Ok I agree with you about the current problems of TK. But I don`t think these problems are occured by the new AKP management. There were always problems unfortunately.

I like Mr. Kozlu, and I am really sad that he is not working for TK anymore. I don`t agree when you tell he left because of religious situation. I repeat again he resigned himself.
Unfortunately (I don`t know if it is same in the other countries) it is a big problem in Turkey all the new govts. make `changes` in managements. The past manager Mr. Bolayirli was the man of ANAP if you remember.
Anyway I hope everything will be fine for our national flag carrier. Like you I want TK to be managed by only the professionals.

Finally I -as a BESIKTAS fan- wish you a good luck for this weekend. I would like to see GALATASARAY as a champion of Turkish Football Leauge.. Smile
 
LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Thu May 11, 2006 5:05 am

Regretfully government interference continues to keep holding back THY full potential.

Thanks god the airline no longer is run by ex air force generals whom had no clue about commerical realities or customer service which was the standard practice until the early 1980s.

Cem Kozlu during his two separate times at THY first as CEO and seconds time as Chairman of the Board managed to bring his vast real world business experience to the carrier including improvements in the airlines schedules, network, logo, IST hub, cabin interior, frequent flyer program to only name a few. In addition he was able to place THY on a path financial success instead of merely being a state utility company.

The continued use political patronage for THY senior management team hampers the realisation of the true full potential of the airline.
While THY has a quite competent middle management executive team, the change of political winds from one election to another often dictates many difficult decisions are not made on commercial terms, and in some cases are not made at all for fear of upsetting the power structure.

The eventual full privatisation will hopefully finally unleash THY from its subservient stance under government ministries. In addition full privatisation should help bring in foreign capital and brains helping THY rightfully achieve a position of one of the worlds leading airlines.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
wing
Posts: 1357
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Thu May 11, 2006 7:05 am

Wish I could talk freely as you guys can but my current position holds me back to join in this.

All I can say I am hoping(and doing) the best for our flag carrier as, many other workers from top to buttom does.

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 5):
Finally I -as a BESIKTAS fan- wish you a good luck for this weekend. I would like to see GALATASARAY as a champion of Turkish Football Leauge..

FENERBAHÇE is the FERRARI of Turkish football...We are waiting Sunday 20:45 to celebrate our championship for 3rd time in a raw...

By the way as I said Ferrari it reminded me about a friend of mine who bought a Ferrari recently.But he is having trouble to drive it good since he used to took metro to go work and home.Its the first time he drives car that big and fast.Infact the car is so fast and big to control he is in the stage to react the car, not to plan ahead and execute in the traffic.

He is moving the car allright but the traffic out there is not easy,many other cars wants to compeate with the Ferrari but he can only drive the car around 90 km/h although Ferrari is capable of doing more.So far there are minor scrathces but I am fearing of a major damage(s) if he doesnt learn to drive it soon....

[Edited 2006-05-11 00:07:07]
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
zvezda
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Thu May 11, 2006 7:34 am

I only flew TK once, ESB-IST, and while it was not the worst flight I've ever had, it was perhaps among the worst 1%. I'm optimistic that privatisation will lead to great improvements over time.
 
wing
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Thu May 11, 2006 7:46 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 8):
I only flew TK once, ESB-IST, and while it was not the worst flight I've ever had

What was the bad experiences on that flight?And the aircraft type?
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
gokmengs
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Thu May 11, 2006 7:46 am

Quoting Wing (Reply 7):

Wow Wing! I would expect you to contribute better than that to this thread.(I'm not saying that because I'm a Galatasaray fan trust me)

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 8):
I only flew TK once, ESB-IST, and while it was not the worst flight I've ever had, it was perhaps among the worst 1%. I'm optimistic that privatisation will lead to great improvements over time.

What? When did you fly them? I haven't heard that negative of a statement even from the most negative person regarding TK. What happened on that flight? Please tell us?
IMO TK is a B or B+ airline, I flew them many times.
Gercekleri Tarih Yazar Tarihide Galatasaray
 
wing
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Thu May 11, 2006 7:56 am

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 10):
Wow Wing! I would expect you to contribute better than that to this thread.(I'm not saying that because I'm a Galatasaray fan trust me)

I have a lot but I am waiting until 20:45 this Sunday.  Wink
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
zvezda
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Thu May 11, 2006 8:06 am

My flight was in 1999, so my memory has faded. It was a widebody, IIRC. No announcements in English, not even minimal safety announcments. (Quite unlike restaurants in Instanbul) none of the stewardesses seemed able to speak more than a few words of English, French, German, Russian, or any other language I can understand. Turche belyoram, ama anlamayoram.  Wink The passengers were out of control, standing in the aisles chatting with their friends seated far away, not letting the carts by. It seemed like no one wore a seatbelt. The moment we landed, many passengers were up in the aisle grabbing their stuff from the overhead bins while we were still speeding down the runway and the stewardesses did nothing about it. I felt like I was on a fraternity bus. I remember being happy that I would not be departing IST on TK.

I also recall that departing IST was a zoo. I couldn't figure out which queues to get in or where to go next, despite at that time having flown more than 1000 times. I was repeatedly misdirected, but the airport isn't TK's fault.
 
emrecan
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Thu May 11, 2006 3:23 pm

Zvezda:

It has been around 7 years from your last TK flight. Lots of things has changed in this period of time. Unfortunately the behaviours of the pax are not TK's fault.
About the IST Ataturk Airport, it is one of the best in the world..
 
zvezda
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Thu May 11, 2006 3:33 pm

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 13):
It has been around 7 years from your last TK flight. Lots of things has changed in this period of time.

I'm glad. Sorry I forgot to mention the date in my first post.

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 13):
Unfortunately the behaviours of the pax are not TK's fault.

I wasn't faulting TK for the passenger's behavior. I was faulting TK for doing absolutely nothing about it.

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 13):
About the IST Ataturk Airport, it is one of the best in the world..

Maybe the signs have improved since I was there. Have you ever been to SIN? Or HKG?
 
emrecan
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Thu May 11, 2006 3:41 pm

Zvezda:

I've been to SIN, NRT, AMS, BKK,.. etc. So what??????

I think you haven't been to new terminal of IST. Please don't talk about the things you don't know.
 
zvezda
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Thu May 11, 2006 3:46 pm

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 15):

I think you haven't been to new terminal of IST.

I made clear that I haven't been there since 1999.

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 15):
Please don't talk about the things you don't know.

Excuse me? I wrote that it might be better now.
 
emrecan
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Thu May 11, 2006 3:53 pm

Zvezda:

I just wanted to remind you not to make comments like "Maybe the signs have improved since I was there"
If you come and see the new terminal, you will understand what has changed.
Also why did you ask if I've been to SIN or HKK? I am not like you, I make comments about the things I know. Changi is the best airport in the world but this do not change the IST is not one of the best.
 
robcol99
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Thu May 11, 2006 5:39 pm

Neitherthat I like the current management, nor the things they have done so far are fantastic, but...

Gokmengs has put out 4 criticisms to the current management which I find somewhat far-fetched and speculative.

1. All of you from Turkey would agree that if you decide to work with a designer, Cemil Ýpekci will be a serious candidate. I believe, from my trips on both the new 738 and 320, he did not do a bad job at all.

2. The new management (which were appointed in mid-2003), made a huge fleet decision within the year of their appointment. Yes, a fleet renewal program was overdue but this was not their call.

3. Gokmengs, please refer to the traffic info on TK or AEA website. Look at the passenger numbers, load factors, and landings performed, within the past 5 years, and tell me that was predictable. The boom started in 2004, in 2003 there was the second Gulf war. Plus, if you blame, TK administration, for the lack of pilots in the country, that will be extremely futile. Turkey did not have enough pilots graduating (we dont have enough commercial pilot schools for God's sake) to meet the growth demand within the past 3 years.

I think on the other hand,
1. They should purchase a more comprehensive fleet management program to cope with the summer schedule :when an aircraft goes tech, this can be handled in a better way.

2. Get More ground and cabin staff (New hires should be somewhat a solution to the inadequate staff at the airports and overtimes clocked by flight attendants)


Again, all my humble opinion.
 
pilotaydin
Posts: 2099
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Thu May 11, 2006 6:08 pm

Quoting Wing (Reply 7):
FENERBAHÇE is the FERRARI of Turkish football...We are waiting Sunday 20:45 to celebrate our championship for 3rd time in a raw...

Gunaydin arkadaslar, so so so nice to see Turkish members discussing something on here, sometimes the other topics bore me. Well as Wing said, we are both pilots for TK so we arent allowed to comment negatively on the company and all, but maybe over a beer at Flyinn mall watching airport ops we can.

As for GS....sorry FB, this time your luck is out, Denizlispor need points to stay away from relegation, and thus they will beat you, we will make MANTI from Kayserispor, and at 20:45 (17:45 ZULU) turkish local time...we will lift the cup

if we don't, im busy don't message me hahah

I hope that people who havent flown turkish in a while please do fly us now, we have amazing new staff, younger and more aeronautical staff, friendlier cabin crew, GREAT food for an airline and we have expanding destinations, a new airport hub to open in ankara, wonderful things await us and you at TK, the airline is developing faster than the country....the new advert says it DEAD on...binlerce kisinin isini iyi yapmasiyla ( translates to ....because thousands of people have been doing their job well)

saygilar abilerim
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Thu May 11, 2006 6:45 pm

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 19):
I hope that people who havent flown turkish in a while please do fly us now, we have amazing new staff, younger and more aeronautical staff, friendlier cabin crew, GREAT food for an airline and we have expanding destinations, a new airport hub to open in ankara, wonderful things await us and you at TK, the airline is developing faster than the country....the new advert says it DEAD on...binlerce kisinin isini iyi yapmasiyla ( translates to ....because thousands of people have been doing their job well)

I had a wonderful time in Turkey. I greatly enjoyed the people and the country. I'm sure I'll go again sometime and I look forward to seeing the new international terminal at IST. Until then, I'm not going to write that the new terminal has been signs than what I experienced in 1999. All I can write is that I hope the signs are better. Anything more, I don't know yet.
 
pilotjm
Posts: 19
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Thu May 11, 2006 7:24 pm

I agree on int terminal but domestic terminal is a big zoo in ÝST
 
wing
Posts: 1357
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 9:10 pm

RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Thu May 11, 2006 7:42 pm

Quoting Wing (Reply 7):
By the way as I said Ferrari it reminded me about a friend of mine who bought a Ferrari recently.But he is having trouble to drive it good since he used to took metro to go work and home

I didn't want to hijack the thread but I hope you guys understood what I was trying to say with the Ferrari example.

Now I hijack the thread;

I have a very best friend(Aðabey)who flies at Pegasus as a captain who is not only a very big GS fan but a FB hater as well.While we were on our tour at Algeria we were stuck on each other causing us to discuss FB-GS wars all the way over the Sahara desert.
One day he was so upset I brought up the biggest victories of FB(ofcourse that was before the faboulus UEFA cup win) after we landed at one of the desert airports(Tamanraset to be exact) he asked me how long was to return trip to our base Alger but in a very serious face.I turned to bring the flight plan from the cockpit and he said

-"what the hell are you doing?
-I'll tell the return time from the flight plan.
-NO no he said I asked how long does it take to reach Alger on a Camel,because I am planning to leave you here if you don't stop defending FB ....That was the biggest victory of GS against FB since he was the captain I had nothing to say to this so I shut up until....

.....Until 6 Kasým.On that day the faboulus 6-0 victory over GS.We were on a descent and I heard his voice on the radio on the company frequency asking the parking stand number.I didn't missed the opportunity to jump in and I said;

Sir after landing the runway 0 6,the parking stand will be 6-0 for you and you'll have a slot time at time 0 6 Z while you'll be reciving 6 0 passengers for the outbound leg as Sunturk 6 0.

There was a long pause on the radio I heard the laughter on the ground side .Ofcourse I had to avoid him for the next couple of weeks to escape his wrath.

I am looking forward to this sunday 20:45 to catch him somewhere on the radio  Smile
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
emrecan
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Thu May 11, 2006 7:51 pm

Wing:

Great joke Big grin
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Thu May 11, 2006 10:20 pm

Yes, I really like the new terminal at IST. Especially Gloria Jeans Coffee. Duty Free shops have always good bargains, too bad they started limiting on how many bottles you can buy on arrival. I used to see people buying cases of wine.
Even then I still remember the bathroom doors didn't have signs "Push, Pull, Yes this is the bathroom Welcome..." on them, so people used to follow the signs and wait, confused in front of the stainless steel monoliths.
And IST is one of those airports, that sometimes you feel like your are in an old Startrek episode in another galaxy, where C.Kirk and his friends are in a another planets' bar, where a huge range of civilizations mingle. And don't forget the prime directive: "Do not interfere with cultures till they discover the warp drive."
 
firiko
Posts: 132
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:05 am

RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Thu May 11, 2006 11:33 pm

Quoting Robcol99 (Reply 18):
All of you from Turkey would agree that if you decide to work with a designer, Cemil Ýpekci will be a serious candidate. I believe, from my trips on both the new 738 and 320, he did not do a bad job at all.

Cemil Ipekci as a serious candidate for desinging aircraft interior ? I don't think so. He is definetly not the smartest choice Tk has ever made. A group of interior design students in their senior year would have came up with something comperable to his work with Tk and at least TK could count on the Pr of getting younger generation involved.

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 19):
we have amazing new staff, younger and more aeronautical staff, friendlier cabin crew,

if only they could speak english

Have you ever tried having a conversation with a Tk flight attendant or a purser in a language other then Turkish It's a disaster. I am sorry but if you work for an airline for a certain number of years became a purser for an A-340 sit your ass down and at least memorise how to pronunce the anoncuments correctly. If the recorded announcment system goes faulty during a flight Tk flights turn into a circus
 
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TK787
Posts: 3063
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:43 am

RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Fri May 12, 2006 2:32 am

Quoting Firiko (Reply 25):
A group of interior design students in their senior year would have came up with something comperable to his work with Tk and at least TK could count on the Pr of getting younger generation involved.

Oh wouldn't that be fun, something like the "Project Runway", no pun intended. Unfortunately, even the most progressive airlines could not afford to take risks like this, wouldn't you agree? I mean we are talking about TK, a flag carrier of a country bordering Iran, Iraq, Syria on the edge of Middle East, not Virgin, Jetblue likes..Like they say, the most important part about "show business", is the "business", not the show. It is really hard to make those aesthetic decisions, while trying to watch your bottom line.

In the past, I have written a letter to TK, for them to support filmmakers in Turkey and include, on their on-board broadcasts, films from younger generations, to their captive audiences on long hauls. I am sure this is cheaper than showing "Message in a Bottle" with Kevin Costner. It says we support the arts; it says, hey, here some artists from our homeland, check them out on the way to your destination. No response from TK.

Quoting Firiko (Reply 25):
if only they could speak english

Sure wouldn't it be nice, maybe in time. It is not really that different in comparable airlines. At least at TK they try their best, as opposed to refusing to speak in English, like some AF attendants.
I can only sympthasize with your impatience, and high standards. We all would love to have everyhing of the highest standards. " me, me, me, now, now, now."
Until that day...
 
firiko
Posts: 132
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Fri May 12, 2006 5:28 am

Quoting TK787 (Reply 26):
Unfortunately, even the most progressive airlines could not afford to take risks like this, wouldn't you agree?

Well tk managment doesn't mind making decisions that involve higher risks that simply has no justificaiton what so ever. Just follow the media. I could name a few but this certainly isn't the right place as people may want to cancel bookings and we don't want that

Here is a hint: Member of Board/Pilot

Atleast allowing a few young desingners could some how be justified.

Quoting TK787 (Reply 26):
me, me, me, now, now, now

Well It's not a personel matter I don't think Turkish Airlines will get any better unless they turn the whole airline into a truly international one like Emirates did because I think it's against Turkish people's nature to serve and to be told what to do. You know what they say : Turks know best but they don't know how.

( Know my fellow countrymen are going to eat me alive for writing this)

Hint: You don't have to agree to what I say but please respect.
 
pilotaydin
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Fri May 12, 2006 5:36 am

Friko, i understand what you're trying to say, but the issue is like this

Turkey doesn't recognize English as an official language of the country, so any english that the people here learn, are taught by turks to them. So they have no chance to improve their announcements and they have no chance to improve their accents...because when a turkish teacher teaches they give you all they ever saw from their past. Turkey is poor compared to Europe so people can't send their kids to fun language camps, but what i do enjoy is that even though our cabin staff don't speak english well, they are university graduates and they are very cultured, and i think this matters more in the long run.
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
firiko
Posts: 132
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Fri May 12, 2006 5:45 am

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 28):
but what i do enjoy is that even though our cabin staff don't speak english well, they are university graduates and they are very cultured, and i think this matters more in the long run.

I agree that the idea being able to travel and a good salary in Turkish standart makes Tk a magnet for university graduates but I somehow feel that Tk cabin crew think they are superior to passangers originating from Turkey but they seem super nice to other nationals on board which is definetly not the right attitude. Don't you think that is a bit sad?
 
pilotaydin
Posts: 2099
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:30 am

RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Fri May 12, 2006 6:03 am

Quoting Firiko (Reply 29):
Tk cabin crew think they are superior to passangers originating from Turkey but they seem super nice to other nationals on board which is definetly not the right attitude. Don't you think that is a bit sad?

well considering there are thousands of cabin crew...we would have to do a survey of almost each one of them to be able to reach a factual conclusion. The main reason why some of them seem grumpy is because we've grown so damn fast that we are all flying 4-5 legs a day and it gets the better of you, but now that more trained people are coming online daily, people are returning to their normal shifts of 75 hours a month instead of 110 flights hours...it's tough work
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
gokmengs
Posts: 894
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Fri May 12, 2006 6:15 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 20):

thanks for the clarification, a lot changed since then hope you get to try them again.

Quoting Robcol99 (Reply 18):
1. All of you from Turkey would agree that if you decide to work with a designer, Cemil Ýpekci will be a serious candidate. I believe, from my trips on both the new 738 and 320, he did not do a bad job at all.

Sorry but I don't agree with that, he could be good for designing clothes but not commercial aircraft interiors, if he had known better he wouldn't have picked pick extra light turquoise(a selection that will show age much earlier) just to give you an example.

Quoting Robcol99 (Reply 18):
3. Gokmengs, please refer to the traffic info on TK or AEA website. Look at the passenger numbers, load factors, and landings performed, within the past 5 years, and tell me that was predictable. The boom started in 2004, in 2003 there was the second Gulf war. Plus, if you blame, TK administration, for the lack of pilots in the country, that will be extremely futile. Turkey did not have enough pilots graduating (we dont have enough commercial pilot schools for God's sake) to meet the growth demand within the past 3 years.

wouldn't you agree that domestic Turkish was and is still underserved? Imagine ILS and better terminals in much of anatolia region, offer the service and people will fly.
As far as the pilot issue, had they seen that underserved markets before they would have purchased the cessna's before too it goes hand in hand

Quoting Pilotjm (Reply 21):
I agree on int terminal but domestic terminal is a big zoo in ÝST

TAV is taking care of that will be opening soon if I'm not mistaken.

Quoting Firiko (Reply 25):
if only they could speak english

Firiko; Although I agree that it is an issue I think you are exaggerating it a little, most of them does an OK job IMO.

Quoting Firiko (Reply 25):
A group of interior design students in their senior year would have came up with something comperable to his work with Tk and at least TK could count on the Pr of getting younger generation involved.

Well it would be too much of a risk there are many acclaimed professionals in the area and that would have been the better choice IMO.

Quoting TK787 (Reply 26):
I mean we are talking about TK, a flag carrier of a country bordering Iran, Iraq, Syria on the edge of Middle East, not Virgin, Jetblue likes..Like they say, the most important part about "show business", is the "business", not the show.

whats that supposed to mean? bordering those countries are no reason to underperform and not be the best. IMO Turkey is much more different then those countries you mention(all due respect to those countries btw) and TK should show that difference. SQ is a muslim country's flag carrier, are you saying they are one of the best because they are in Asia? sorry but that statement didn't make sense to me.
Edited for spelling

[Edited 2006-05-11 23:16:16]

[Edited 2006-05-11 23:17:00]
Gercekleri Tarih Yazar Tarihide Galatasaray
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Fri May 12, 2006 8:18 am

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 31):
SQ is a muslim country's flag carrier, are you saying they are one of the best because they are in Asia? sorry but that statement didn't make sense to me.

A lot of stuff doesn't make sense when we veer away from civil aviation and you are right I should have kept it that way. I was trying to answer to Firiko, about design concerns.

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 31):
the most important part about "show business", is the "business", not the show.

What I meant was, Singapore with its 14.9%, or UAE (Emirates) with 96% Muslim population put "business" first no matter which continent they are in.
TK should work on that, before dealing with the "show" part. It would be nice if this goes hand in hand.
 
mbg
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:18 am

RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Fri May 12, 2006 11:52 pm

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 31):
wouldn't you agree that domestic Turkish was and is still underserved? Imagine ILS and better terminals in much of anatolia region, offer the service and people will fly.

couldn't agree more.

mbg
 
bahadir
Posts: 1281
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Sat May 13, 2006 12:08 am

Quoting Mbg (Reply 33):
Imagine ILS and better terminals in much of anatolia region, offer the service and people will fly.

gokmen,
this ILS argument is nothing but a big lie! This has become popular after DIY crash of the RJ. Everybody knows here that the it was a pilot error. Simple as that.

ILS may not be feasible for some airports served by 3-4 flights / day. If a pilot cannot fly a VOR or NDB approach with an aircraft that can make it even easier for them; they can go and find another line of work.

Unfortunately there are lots of bad pilots in Turkey where they got the job because of some political connections or just because they are sons of other pilots. Let's face it..
Earthbound misfit I
 
mbg
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Sat May 13, 2006 3:06 am

Hi Bahadir,

Yes, the RJ crash was most probably due to pilot error as almost all civil airline accidents (except for the TK 734 in Ceyhan, maybe) in Turkey and all around the world are. And yes, I have been frustrated with TK attempting (or being forced) to continue to serve airfields that impose an increased workload on a pilots during poor weather conditions. I just hate the "bize birsey olmaz" perspective of some people. However, I'm encouraged by the fact that things have been improving in Turkey.

On the other hand, a combination of well-designed airports, equipped with the most proper landing/navigation aids is necessary for civil aviation to become more reliable and more accessible in Turkey. An ILS system may not be feasible for an airport receiving 3-4 flights/day but I believe that a more reliable air transportation network has a potential of increasing that number and reducing the workload of other means of transportation that is currently over saturated many times. People are traveling, they just aren't flying.

As a matter of fact, I believe there is no feasible alternative to air travel in Turkey. Building safer and more effective means of ground transportation (lets face it, both highways/roads and railroads are a mess in terms of safety and efficiency) would cost ridiculous amounts of tax payer money and take forever to complete.

Aside from constructing better airports (let's start with not constructing runways with approach patterns obstructed with buildings) and improving the means of navigation, air travel should be encouraged as a national policy, more pilot, flight attendant, maintenance crew schools should be established, the civil aviation authority should be re-structured such that is stripped off any of its biases and made to function effectively, regulating civil aviation and assuring that the necessary safety levels are observed. Finally, TK should be privatized and stripped out of any domestic/international privileges they may still have. Generating a fair and competitive market is the only way to improve this and many other industries in Turkey.

Cheers,

mbg
 
wing
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Sat May 13, 2006 3:39 am

Quoting Bahadir (Reply 34):
Unfortunately there are lots of bad pilots in Turkey where they got the job because of some political connections or just because they are sons of other pilots. Let's face it..


I would like to learn what is the criteria for between a good pilot and a bad pilot?

Quoting Bahadir (Reply 34):
gokmen,
this ILS argument is nothing but a big lie! This has become popular after DIY crash of the RJ. Everybody knows here that the it was a pilot error. Simple as that.

ILS may not be feasible for some airports served by 3-4 flights / day. If a pilot cannot fly a VOR or NDB approach with an aircraft that can make it even easier for them; they can go and find another line of work.


I will not criticise this since I agree with it partly and I know the environment you fly but you don't know the places we fly.

I like comparing the pilots job with a juggler juggling while playing with the ball on his feet,a hulahoop on his belly etc.and trying to ride a bicycle ...

If you let one man try to do all this it is inevitable that one day or another he will fall from the bicycle or drop something from his hand.Shouldn't it be great if somebody comes in and takes the hulahoop and another one comes to help with the ball and a third one comes in for the juggling and the chances that our guy fall from the bicycle reduces significantly.

I agree any pilot who sits to the cockpit must be able to fly a non precision approach as safe as the precision approaches, within the limits.BUT;
there is a big but here...

ILS and radar coverage is very much necessary on the environment we operate.I used to fly in North Africa.There were no radar or ILS either but the weather was sunny 350 days in a year and the runways were located in the middle of desert with more than 10000 feet lenght.It is more forgiving.But the terrain and the weather conditions are really hard and the airports located in funny ways causes you fly with your own judgement and piloting skills.

If there is no accident happening once in every month in Turkey's airports ints solely because your pilot saves the day again,again and again.



Quoting Bahadir (Reply 34):
ILS may not be feasible for some airports served by 3-4 flights / day


I heard people saying this,thats how you probably learn also but tell them it is wrong.A feasablity of an improvement in aviation is not measured with money its measured with HUMAN LIFE.
An ILS system rougly costs about 1 million USD.But an accident happening and you looose an airplane cost you around 50-70 millionUSD,the increase of insurance costs you many millions USD,loosing of your publicity costs you again more than millions in USD but loosing a single human life is priceless...
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Sat May 13, 2006 3:49 am

Quoting Wing (Reply 36):
If there is no accident happening once in every month in Turkey's airports ints solely because your pilot saves the day again,again and again.

I don't know if this is comforting or scary, especially coming from you. When you say Turkey's airports, which one's are you referring to?
Thanks.
 
wing
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Sat May 13, 2006 4:16 am

I don't want to scare nor comfort you.I want you all know the truth and have a general idea about how rough conditions we really have to work comparing our counterparts in Europe and USA.

We(yes even the pilots) have to think again before labelling everything as a pilot error.If we learn the what is really going on, on everyday operations and think we can realise easier why all the accidents/incidents of THY and other operators(Turkey's and foreign) happens in Turkey and the same airplanes and same pilots doesn't involve anything around Europe.

TK787;
I know you prefer to be more comfortable as you board to airplanes when you are in Turkey,I can assure you we care about the safety(of the passengers and ourselves) more than everything,we always want to go back to our home and families every day,thats what my grandfather did,thats what my father does,and that will be always what I'll be doing,each day and everyday So no matter what the circumstances,no matter what everybody say just enjoy your flight with us and never think about your safety.As we say in Turkish...Çünkü babamýzdan böyle gördük biz...Best Regards.FO KANAT ERDÖL(WING)

[Edited 2006-05-12 21:21:36]
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
pilotaydin
Posts: 2099
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Sat May 13, 2006 4:25 am

lay lay lay lay lay lay lay lay laaaaaaay ooooo cim bom bom

if we ever meet in turkey, id like to personally tell you some of my non precision approach stories, but i cant do that on here
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
firiko
Posts: 132
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:05 am

RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Sat May 13, 2006 4:27 am

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 31):
exaggerating it a little

Well If GM Mr Kotil goes on tv simply lies about How Tk is going to be able to compete with major players like Emirates day after day in every media covarage he gets I think someone needs to give him the wake up call I feel sorry on his behalf when he assumes it's ok to lie.

As far as english on board any Turkish operator goes I think they are just being lazy there is no excuse for not being able to speak it when it clearly is a part of your daily routine.
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Sat May 13, 2006 6:07 am

Quoting Wing (Reply 38):
So no matter what the circumstances,no matter what everybody say just enjoy your flight with us and never think about your safety

Wing,
Thanks,
I always do, I still have a great thrill just to be able look out the window, or feel the power of the engines during takeoff while I am trying to lean forward. As opposed to how fragile life is in many other aspects, flying is still very safe and fun. I just feel privileged to share opinions here with you guys.
 
TurkishWings
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Sat May 13, 2006 4:27 pm

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 39):
lay lay lay lay lay lay lay lay laaaaaaay ooooo cim bom bom

However much I would like to see Cim bom bom as the champion, I think we all know they will not be...I am a Besiktas supporter and just like the rest of us, we want Galatasaray to be the champion this year. But lets be realistic  Smile

I know, I know off topic  Smile Sorry, just couldn't help...
Coffee - Tea or Me?
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Sat May 13, 2006 11:13 pm

Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 42):
Sorry, just couldn't help...

Welcome aboard.
I was at a party 10 days ago, and J.Roberts was there.
Sorry, just couldn't help...

[Edited 2006-05-13 16:22:01]
 
N503JB
Posts: 291
Joined: Sat May 13, 2000 3:49 am

RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Sun May 14, 2006 3:16 am

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 13):
About the IST Ataturk Airport, it is one of the best in the world..

If Turkey is the only country in the world, *** YES ***.

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 15):
Zvezda:

I've been to SIN, NRT, AMS, BKK,.. etc. So what??????

I think you haven't been to new terminal of IST. Please don't talk about the things you don't know.

I know and been many many times in IST airport between 2002 - 2006 and I am going again this summer, IST AIRPORT 200% not the best airport in the world as well as in skytrax. Funny was i expenienced they paging my name (Chinese name) by saying Turkish, when I looking for information regarding the paging from TK staff, other ground handling staff as well as polices and securities, all of them are not helpful and unable speak well english, finally with no idea why they paging my name and get on board.

Emrecan, You dont understand what is the meaning of the best airport.

Regards / N503JB
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b52murph
Posts: 223
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Sun May 14, 2006 5:26 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 12):
My flight was in 1999, so my memory has faded. It was a widebody, IIRC. No announcements in English, not even minimal safety announcments. (Quite unlike restaurants in Instanbul) none of the stewardesses seemed able to speak more than a few words of English, French, German, Russian, or any other language I can understand. Turche belyoram, ama anlamayoram. The passengers were out of control, standing in the aisles chatting with their friends seated far away, not letting the carts by. It seemed like no one wore a seatbelt. The moment we landed, many passengers were up in the aisle grabbing their stuff from the overhead bins while we were still speeding down the runway and the stewardesses did nothing about it. I felt like I was on a fraternity bus. I remember being happy that I would not be departing IST on TK.

As a US GI stationed in Adana, I can say from experience much has changed, but some still needs to change. Late last summer I flew ADA-IST-FRA and back FRA-ESB-ADA. Mix of 738, A320, and BAE 146 service, all very pleasant once on the plane. ADA needs some work, though. Arriving for the morning flt 451 to IST, we had to fight a throng at the door to the domestic terminal to enter inside; excellent service from THY at the counter, but all were herded into the security area to clear the gate and walk to the plane. Luckly, I caught wind from the guy ahead of me that I needed to point my bags out on the tarmac to the baggage handler in order to get them loaded onto the plane. (Many of my colleagues have not done so with the result of losing luggage for weeks). Arriving at the ZOO of a domestic terminal in IST, we meandered down multiple unmarked corridors to find the beautiful new international terminal. What a contrast. Only drawback to the international terminal was the extraordinarily long and slow moving line at Pasaport Kontrolu. Departure from IST and arrival at FRA were uneventful.

Departing FRA to ESB, we arrived at the "international terminal" at ESB. With no signs mentioning anything about those with connecting flights--in either Turkce or English. Fortunately, one of the security personnel was able to point me outside and down the street 100 feet to the domestic terminal. Domestic terminal at ESB is almost as chaotic as ADA...no obvious sign of where to go to get to the gate, then down a long staircase to actually walk out on the ramp. Arriving at ADA, we parked at the domestic terminal, but I was then bused to the international terminal with 4-5 other pax who had also originated at FRA. Of course, we had already cleared customs and Pasaport Kontrolu at ESB, so they just had us walk through the international terminal instead. Made it a challenge for our ride to pick us up.

All told, excellent service in the air from THY. Great food and service; very friendly, and safety announcements were in Turkce, Deutche, and English. Hopefully the new management will be able to improve the airport service as it sounds like they've done already with the flying service.

b52Murph

[Edited 2006-05-13 22:33:45]

[Edited 2006-05-13 22:34:59]
 
emrecan
Posts: 845
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Sun May 14, 2006 6:09 pm

N503JB:

I think you don't understand English language so well.. I didn't say IST is the best. I said it is one of the best. If you are not able to understand the differece between this sentences, then you cannot say other people thay are unable to speak English.

[Edited 2006-05-14 11:11:21]
 
TurkishWings
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Sun May 14, 2006 6:14 pm

Quoting N503JB (Reply 44):
all of them are not helpful and unable speak well english, finally with no idea why they paging my name and get on board.

Emrecan, You dont understand what is the meaning of the best airport.

It somehow appears to me that you can't speak very good English either and I believe you also work in the airline industry. English is not our primary language but it was one of yours until recently. Correct me if I am mistaken.

Your one personal experience doesn't mean IST is not a good airport. I am not saying it is THE best, but it certainly is one of the better ones.
Coffee - Tea or Me?
 
pilotaydin
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RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Sun May 14, 2006 6:52 pm

Attention.... an airport shouldn't be judged by the police that work there or the people that work there, because those people change DAILY in some airports. The airport should be judged by what SERVICES are available, and how the layout is and how pax can find what they need within a short walk....

I used to connect from MUC to turkey through ATL it was a NIGHTMARE until the contruction was done...that doesn't make MUC a shitty airport

IST is EXCELLENT when everything is finished off, it will be perfectly fine...
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
N503JB
Posts: 291
Joined: Sat May 13, 2000 3:49 am

RE: Turkish Airlines Privatisation

Sun May 14, 2006 7:16 pm

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 46):
N503JB:

I think you don't understand English language so well.. I didn't say IST is the best. I said it is one of the best. If you are not able to understand the differece between this sentences, then you cannot say other people thay are unable to speak English.

I think you having the same problem like me; please check your spelling before you post your very good English.

The worst part for me in English is writing and spelling, so what's problem for you regarding on my English, Emrecan? Am I disturbing you? The main communication language in TK also is Turkish up to now, according from my Turkish friends said, staff in TK head office when they facing people calling them by phone and speaking English, the Turkish staff cut off the phone line at the same time after pick up the phone.

IST airport could be good and the best for Turkish. But for most of the foreigner passenger, HKG, ICN, SIN and KUL is the best airport in the WORLD and ture.

Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 47):
Your one personal experience doesn't mean IST is not a good airport.

Yes, I agreed at all times.

Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 47):
I believe you also work in the airline industry.

How do you know..... HA HA! Working with airlines 10 years almost. lol.

Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 47):
English is not our primary language but it was one of yours until recently.

Really, do you really think so? Our primary language is Cantonese in Hong Kong but English is our second language and very popular.

The best wishes / N503JB
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