juventus
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VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 5:32 am

Virgin America is not holding any punches.


http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...story/05-10-2006/0004358775&EDATE=

Also, Mr. Arnold Schwarznegger wants the DOT to approve Virgin America's application soon.
 
airtran737
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 5:44 am

I don't think that CO is scared of Virgin America. If anyone should be worried it should be UA, and I'm pretty sure they're not to worried. I bet you'll see Ted on every Virgin America route out of SFO. What would you rater have, a new upstart LCC based in SFO with a limited route network, or Ted which has a bigger network, plus allows you to flow into the other United destinations?
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MaverickM11
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 5:49 am

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 1):
What would you rater have, a new upstart LCC based in SFO with a limited route network, or Ted which has a bigger network, plus allows you to flow into the other United destinations?

Ted does have a network, but a wet paper bag has a better inflight product than Ted so it wouldn't be very hard to one-up the competition there.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
DLKAPA
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 5:55 am

Or they could throw UA premium service on the routes? Oh wait, VA is starting in the transcon markets, so technically UA alread has.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
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drerx7
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 5:56 am

Eventhough Continental is throwing quite a fit--Virgin America won't encroach on any of their serious territory for a while. Besides the first routes to NYC--I doubt they'll be competing directly with CO for a while. I'm sure they won't serve IAH/HOU in their first round of service--if history down here is an indicator.
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JayDavis
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 6:00 am

So why is CO raising SUCH a stink ????

Other than supposedly Richard Branson being involved with it..............
 
alphascan
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 6:02 am

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 1):
I bet you'll see Ted on every Virgin America route out of SFO.

United Mainline, United PS and Ted all on the same route? Why haven't they thought of that on Algonquin Road yet? Then UA would really be the carrier they say they are.
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
luv2fly
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 6:02 am

Karma is a bitch! I am sure BA is laughing about this and remembering VS's campaign to stop the BA/AA code share.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
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legacyins
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 6:12 am

Quoting JayDavis (Reply 5):
So why is CO raising SUCH a stink ????

Well there was another thread speculating on the future of CO and UA merging. So, I guess CO would be concerned if they plan on keeping SFO as a hub. All rumors, of corse.  spin 
 
airlineaddict
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 6:16 am

Maybe CO is afraid of losing their feed on to Virgin Atlantic's flights to LHR with VirginAmerica.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 6:20 am

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 1):
I don't think that CO is scared of Virgin America.

I agree. I think that CO wants the US Government to enforce the law as it is written. Im pretty sure that the D.O.T. already knows that.

Quoting Legacyins (Reply 8):
Well there was another thread speculating on the future of CO and UA merging.

Thats the first Ive ever heard of that!

Quoting JayDavis (Reply 5):
Other than supposedly Richard Branson being involved with it..............

Foreign ownership of an airline, the last time I checked, is illegal. Thats why CO is saying something now, I guess.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
luv2fly
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 6:22 am

I am sure other carriers will soon be raising a stink as well.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
PanAm747
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 6:23 am

I'd like to like Virgin America or Virgin anything, but overall I find them a bit obnoxious and misleading - "4 Engines 4 Long Haul", a snipe at Boeing, yet they were quite happy with 747's for a long time, and "No Way BA/AA".

If CO is ticked off about anything, it's Virgin's ability to fly from LHR which CO cannot do. Level playing field? Get rid of that ridiculous antiquated Bermuda II which BA and Virgin love before a Brit can own an airline.

If Virgin America can create a product and customer loyalty and make a profit, good for them. But this is the United States domestic market - there are more ghosts of dead airlines than there are in all of Disney's haunted houses combined!!  ghost 
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juventus
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 6:24 am

San Francisco will be one busy little airport when Virgin America starts flying. It already ranks in the top ten in the world.
 
DLKAPA
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 6:27 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 12):
yet they were quite happy with 747's for a long time,

Could that possibly be because 747's have 4 engines?
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 6:32 am

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 1):
don't think that CO is scared of Virgin America. If anyone should be worried it should be UA, and I'm pretty sure they're not to worried.

I'm "pretty sure" you are dead wrong. Virgin America will have lower costs, except for oil, than Southwest. And Virgin is proposing the operate as a transcontinental carrier where both United and Continental are huge players.

Continental is simply trying to save themselves from competition just like American is trying to do in Dallas with the whole Love Field mess. Continental is infamous within the airline industry for their eagerness to litigate. With Virgin set to enter the market with a superior product right off the bat, Continental's competition complaint is simply a way of getting the government involved to slow down the process.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
captaink
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 6:33 am

I don't understand the situation. Why is their an ownership problem? Doesn't the law state that you can't have more than 49% foreign onwership or something of the sort, and such is the case with Virgin American?
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AirframeAS
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 6:36 am

Quoting Captaink (Reply 16):
Why is their an ownership problem?

I believe its a trust issue. And this will be the first time the F.A.A/D.O.T. will allow foreign ownership of an airline. So its gotta be the trust issue at stake here.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
timboflier215
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 6:48 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 17):
And this will be the first time the F.A.A/D.O.T. will allow foreign ownership of an airline

It's not so much as foreign ownership as foreign investment. The people with the vast majority of the shares and voting rights will be American citizens. The majority of the company is not foreign owned, but American owned.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 6:48 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 17):
And this will be the first time the F.A.A/D.O.T

Didn't SK buy a portion of CO in the 80s/90s? And weren't there some shares swapped early on in the Star Alliance? I don't think this is the first time a US airline will be partially owned by a foreign source.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 6:52 am

Quoting Captaink (Reply 16):
don't understand the situation. Why is their an ownership problem? Doesn't

Ownership laws of airlines were enacted in the 1940's (give or take) to prevent a foreign airline from having control over U.S. routes and prices....a problem that would not exist today because of the size of the industry and the deregulated environment in which it operates.

Today the laws are used as a way of preventing cash-rich foreign airlines from providing capital to cash-starved US carriers, potentially bankrupting (again) those airlines that don't receive such investments.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
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drerx7
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 7:48 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 15):
I'm "pretty sure" you are dead wrong. Virgin America will have lower costs, except for oil, than Southwest. And Virgin is proposing the operate as a transcontinental carrier where both United and Continental are huge players.

Continental is simply trying to save themselves from competition just like American is trying to do in Dallas with the whole Love Field mess. Continental is infamous within the airline industry for their eagerness to litigate. With Virgin set to enter the market with a superior product right off the bat, Continental's competition complaint is simply a way of getting the government involved to slow down the process.

Virgin America will be nothing more than a fly buzzing around someones head for CO---at least at outset. No FF base--just a superior product. The only routes that CO has to worry about are SFO-NY, SFO-CLE, SFO-IAH/HOU and I doubt the latter two will come online at the outset anyway. I'm sure they don't want added competition--but your analogy is waaaaaay off base. Love Field and this issue are loosely analagous at best. Besides--CO has done a decent job coexisting in the transcon market with the likes of JetBlue and everybody else that I doubt seriously they are losing thaaaat much sleep over Virgin. Replace Continental in your response with United---then we are on the same page.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
Delta787
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 8:18 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 19):
Didn't SK buy a portion of CO in the 80s/90s?

Yes they did. It was part of the codeshare agreement they had agreed on. They owned enough of it to get a seat on the board of directors.
Fly Delta!
 
Mir
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 8:26 am

Quoting AirlineAddict (Reply 9):
Maybe CO is afraid of losing their feed on to Virgin Atlantic's flights to LHR with VirginAmerica.

CO already code-shares on VS SFO-LHR, so I don't see why many would fly via EWR if they could go direct (and there's also BA).

-Mir
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petmbro
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 8:28 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 19):
I don't think this is the first time a US airline will be partially owned by a foreign source.

BA use to own 25% of the old US Air until 1997. I personally don't think Virgin will be that big a deal for CO but UA definetely should watch out. Currently out of the SFO area (OAK) are WN and B6, so adding another LCC to the market will only draw passengers away from UA.
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luv2fly
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 8:47 am

Quoting Delta787 (Reply 22):
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 19):
Didn't SK buy a portion of CO in the 80s/90s?

Yes they did. It was part of the codeshare agreement they had agreed on. They owned enough of it to get a seat on the board of directors.

Also KL and NW as well.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 8:50 am

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 21):
No FF base--just a superior product

That pretty much says it all.

Why is Southwest so successful? Because of their high quality product.

Why is Singapore Airlines so successful? Because of their high quality product.

People love quality and consistency in any product and they are very loyal when they find it.

Legacy carriers, even Continental, have trouble providing a CONSISTENTLY high quality product. Virgin promises new equipment, highly selective hiring practices and personal entertainment at every seat. People will defect, much as they did to JetBlue when it started up, in droves....seeking consistency, quality and a good price.

The "Virgin influence" can only be a good one. They know how to run airlines that people CHOOSE to fly.

In this era of multi-hundred million $$ losses every quarter, no airline will view Virgin as "a fly buzzing around." Anything that diverts revenue to another company will have those affected up in arms.

You don't know what you're talking about.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
swadispatcher
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 8:59 am

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 11):
I am sure other carriers will soon be raising a stink as well.

I'm kinda surprised that CO has been the only one so far..
Maintain 2300 until Boiler, cleared for the VOR-A approach, report BATLE inbound..
 
9252fly
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 9:27 am

As much as I appreciate new upstarts offering consumers additional choices,I still have a bit of a problem with the ability of just about anyone with the capital to start an airline with all new bottom end labour costs and a new gimmicky marketing campaign. Perhaps most of the whiners on A.net would prefer all the legacy carriers to shut down tomorrow and restart with a new workforce at even lower wages and tie that to a new product offering?
 
dutchjet
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 9:32 am

Quoting Swadispatcher (Reply 27):

I'm kinda surprised that CO has been the only one so far..

Good point - CO is taking the lead with this issue, they simply want the law enforced as it is written and intended. I am surprised that other US carriers, especially the LCCs are not raising hell, the last thing any US airline wants or needs is another LCC dirving down already low fares.

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 26):
People love quality and consistency in any product and they are very loyal when they find it.

US pax love low prices - $99 transcon fares are what pax are looking for.

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 26):
People will defect, much as they did to JetBlue when it started up, in droves....seeking consistency, quality and a good price.

And the JetBlue formula is not working out as well as hoped in recent months - JetBlue has had lots of success filling up its airplanes on key routes, but now the airline is having yeild issues and must figure out how to signficantly raise fares and improve yeilds while not pissing off their customers......even JetBlue realizes that their pax are anything but loyal, JetBLue knows if it raises fares its pax will look to other airlines, even those big bad legacy carriers, for better priced alternatives.

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 26):
The "Virgin influence" can only be a good one. They know how to run airlines that people CHOOSE to fly.

Its amazing to me how many people really think that Virgin is a cut above other airlines.......they offer a very good premium cabin, but their Y class service is nothing special with rather poor passenger room and mediocre service. The IFE is good, but thats about it.......media-happy Branson has really convinced the flying public that he is offering something special. As for the other Virgin airlines, ever try Virgin Express based in Brussels - one of the worst and most uncomfortable flying experiences around and their fares are not even that cheap.
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 9:38 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 29):
their Y class service is nothing special with rather poor passenger room and mediocre service. The IFE is good, but thats about it.......

IFE sells. Period. Virgin Atlantic's seat pitch is pretty tight.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 29):
media-happy Branson has really convinced the flying public that he is offering something special

How they get people into the seats really doesn't matter as long as they do it. Their marketing works.

I've flown V Express out of Brussels. My experience was it was about on par with most european discount airlines.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
greaser
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 9:52 am

CO to VirginAmerica, "Get a license"

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 29):
And the JetBlue formula is not working out as well as hoped in recent months - JetBlue has had lots of success filling up its airplanes on key routes, but now the airline is having yeild issues and must figure out how to signficantly raise fares and improve yeilds while not pissing off their customers......even JetBlue realizes that their pax are anything but loyal, JetBLue knows if it raises fares its pax will look to other airlines, even those big bad legacy carriers, for better priced alternatives.

Exactly...all this "VirginAmerica is going to slaughter the airlines" is bull. I'd say wait a few years before you start to predict an effect. Sure, their planes will be new and costs low...just you wait...seniority sucks for the airlines...literally.

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 30):
IFE sells. Period. Virgin Atlantic's seat pitch is pretty tight.

I agree in some cases. Ok, IFE nowadays is essential on long flights. But anything short of LAX-EWR is pushing it. IFE would be the killer punch back in the day, but now with video Ipods, cd players, laptops, and the like, nowbody really cares anymore. Besides, Southwest offers portable DVD players, so there's no loss there. To the younger demographics, it's a moot point.
Now you're really flying
 
corey07850
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 10:02 am

I guess no one really noticed this:

"SOURCE Virgin America"

The article mentions CO twice, then goes on for 6 paragraphs about how great the VA product will be... A cheap way to advertise if you ask me
 
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par13del
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 10:10 am

Let me ask an off beat question. It's regularly stated that the US has too much capacity and if not for their Chapt.11 laws, the excess would have been weeded out by market forces. If this is the case, is it not a good thing that the govt. is trying to find some way to delay and maybe prevent additional excess capacity from coming to market? Does it make a difference if the excess capacity is American owned or European?
 
juventus
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 10:14 am

Quoting Greaser (Reply 31):
CO to VirginAmerica, "Get a license"

Good one Greaser, I like that.......
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 10:27 am

Quoting Par13del (Reply 33):
It's regularly stated that the US has too much capacity and if not for their Chapt.11 laws, the excess would have been weeded out by market forces.

Overcapacity exist in every industry, and as a matter of fact, nearly all U.S. airlines are flying with mostly full aircraft. WN has one of the lower load factors in the industry with around 68%.

The problem is competition. WN in particular has an incredible degree of control on ticket prices across the U.S. because of their broad route network, they are after all the biggest domestic airline in the nation. WN sets their ticket prices at what makes them a profit, not what makes anyone else a profit.

The industry can't not match WN's fares, and everyone except WN flies mostly full aircraft at a loss.

Quoting Greaser (Reply 31):
Besides, Southwest offers portable DVD players, so there's no loss there.

Is that WN or AA? I wasn't aware that WN had implemented any sort of IFE distrobution...
 
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par13del
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 10:42 am

DfwRevolution are you saying that WN has no competition? There are numerous LCC's but none as large as WN, how would allowing an additional player aid the situation, if anything it will fragment the competition even more and make WN even bigger. No way Virgin America is going to start up with a large fleet, they will probably be a mirror of Jetblue on the West Coast, and I don't mean services, just a LCC.

What may provide competition for WN is more HP/US mergers, which means allowing say DL or NW to fold or merge into a large LCC, dont see that hapenning but that the gist of my WN competition.
 
greaser
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 11:03 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 35):
s that WN or AA? I wasn't aware that WN had implemented any sort of IFE distrobution...

I know for sure that AA did AT LEAST try out portable DVD players, so did UA. AS has em for passengers (last time i checked, which was 2004).
LoL now i'm not sure abt WN's IFE...if any..  Sad

From a 2004 Washington Post article
For its part, Southwest Airlines remains staunchly opposed to in-flight entertainment. Ed Stewart, the airline's spokesman, said Southwest studied the possibility of adding in-flight technology but found it was not cost-effective because most of its flights are short, about an hour or so. "We don't think our customers really want to pay for that," Stewart said.
Now you're really flying
 
wjcandee
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 11:12 am

Virgin Atlantic does a nice job.
Richard Branson is probably the world's coolest billionaire, and an all-around great guy.
However, Richard and Virgin don't have anywhere near the stroke/pull/vibe/buzz in the US that they have in Britain and in other former Colonies.
Branson has MUCH better hair than Trump. He has a truly charming and delightful personality and a winning smile. His knockoff of the Apprentice was wonderful, and it taught viewers and participants SO much more about winning in business, being creative, and treating your employees well while having fun than Trump's show ever did. Yet it bombed. Big time. Apparently, most people in the flyover area knew Branson about as much as they knew Mark Cuban, and liked him about as much. That's a shame, but that seemed to be the case.
And nobody outside of A.net knows who Fred Reid is.

Bottom line: one press release has absolutely no chance of affecting the DOT process. Rather, it looks like a pretty sweaty attempt by Virgin to draw some attention to itself by kicking the bully and hoping that the bully will do something back to it that will get the media's attention.

As much as we all do (or probably at least should) love the Brits -- they sort of speak our language, after all -- CO's effort to make them hop over every conceivable hurdle before penetrating our domestic market should have been totally expected. There's way too much capacity chasing a finite amount of non-discretionary travel these days, and that means that Virgin: (1) at least at a profit-making level, isn't going to keep fares any lower; (2) isn't likely to provide any appreciably-better a product (according to whatever your standards are for "better") than whatever your favorite carrier is these days; (3) isn't going to cause a net increase in airline-industry wages (or probably even employment, except maybe in relatively-depressed SF); (4) isn't going to be able to do anything more creative in a business plan than a carrier like JetBlue, and will likely introduce a similar economic model to JetBlue (low-cost, new-hire employee wages and low-cost, new-equipment maint schedules paired with probably-back-loaded capital costs on the A320s), just a few years behind B6; (5) has to be challenged as to its destinations, given that even B6 is looking to put itself into the shorter-hop business because of how fuel prices skew the economic model.

So...this is much ado about nothing. It's crappy timing to want to start a new carrier, and its no surprise that the American competition wants to keep them out, and that American politicians outside of shell-of-its-former-self (hell, you can even get a parking space there these days) San Francisco don't see anything for them in what Virgin America has to offer (foreign planes, more capacity in a depressed industry, etc.).
 
wjcandee
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 11:25 am

Quoting Par13del (Reply 36):
No way Virgin America is going to start up with a large fleet

They're starting with 34 A320s aircraft, according to their web site. In comparison, Airtran presently has about 26 737s and 86 717s, which means that Virgin will start with about 1/3 the number of (admittedly-bigger) airframes. Airtran manages about 600 flights a day, so figure in the mid-100s to low 200s for Virgin once they are rolling, depending on stage length.

Quoting Greaser (Reply 37):
Southwest studied the possibility of adding in-flight technology but found it was not cost-effective because most of its flights are short, about an hour or so. "We don't think our customers really want to pay for that," Stewart said.

Well, there's a way to know whether customers want to "pay for that". How does F9 do with its pay-to-watch satellite TV? F9, like WN, emplanes a mix of biz and leisure travelers -- how many are willing to pay? B6 ended up having to give their TV away for free, but it plainly does attract some customers. FL has a much-simpler, much-lighter XM system, which seems to make people pretty happy at a much-lower cost and weight. It's all a balancing act, and it's fun to see the different approaches taken by different carriers on the same question. Plainly, there's no single "right answer" as to all customers.
 
atmx2000
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 11:34 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 20):

Today the laws are used as a way of preventing cash-rich foreign airlines from providing capital to cash-starved US carriers, potentially bankrupting (again) those airlines that don't receive such investments.

You think foreign airlines are the only source of cash? Where is VirginAmerica getting its domestic bucks from? The reality is that foreign airlines and domestic investors would rather start new ones free of any legacy debt, union influence and old planes, but they can't figure out the political problem of getting the existing airlines out of the way.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
LawnDart
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 11:46 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 26):
The "Virgin influence" can only be a good one. They know how to run airlines that people CHOOSE to fly.

Check out the comments about Virgin Atlantic on Airlinequality.com...apparently, Virgin's product isn't as consistent as their own self-hype:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 29):
Its amazing to me how many people really think that Virgin is a cut above other airlines.......they offer a very good premium cabin, but their Y class service is nothing special with rather poor passenger room and mediocre service.



Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 29):
The IFE is good, but thats about it.......

That's what defines a good airline for many on this forum... Yeah sure

Quoting Swadispatcher (Reply 27):
I'm kinda surprised that CO has been the only one so far..

It's a tag-team event. As long as CO is doing all the bitching, others are happy to let them. Once they tire, someone else will start up. Eventually, it will deplete Virgin America's resources, or force them to change / make more transparent their ownership - financial sources.

Virgin America has been less than forthcoming about their financial backing and who is "pulling the ropes behind the curtain"...apart from that, the politics involved range from foreign ownership of U.S. based carriers to access to LHR. I think the LHR access has more to do with CO whining than the foreign ownership issue...after all, the U.K. denies additional access to U.S. carriers to LHR, but other air carriers have started service there.

But if CO can throw a very public tantrum about blocking Virgin America, and their little code-share buddy Richard (who is making money off of CO and plowing it back into VAmerica) whispers something into the ear of politicians at home about letting CO (and others) into LHR, and CO drops their objection to Virgin America, and everyone lives happily ever after...and nobody is the wiser...it's all good.
 
S12PPL
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 12:06 pm

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 1):
What would you rater have, a new upstart LCC based in SFO with a limited route network, or Ted which has a bigger network, plus allows you to flow into the other United destinations?

I would rather have the upstart LCC, which will no doubt offer better service and price than UA, the mainline airline still struggling...

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 7):
Karma is a bitch! I am sure BA is laughing about this and remembering VS's campaign to stop the BA/AA code share.

Except that Virgin America is an American airline, owned in part by Virgin....
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
jacobin777
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 12:07 pm

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 21):
The only routes that CO has to worry about are SFO-NY, SFO-CLE, SFO-IAH/HOU

wouldn't that be the majority of CO's SFO base?

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 26):
Legacy carriers, even Continental, have trouble providing a CONSISTENTLY high quality product.

actually not, CO has CONSISTENTLY been rated one of the top airlines in the United States/North America...(and no, I dont' fly CO....I'm a loyal AA-Platinum FF member)
"Up the Irons!"
 
Aviator27
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 12:23 pm

The law pertaining to ownership of airlines in the United States says that a foreign entity may not own more than 49% of a airline AND no more than 25% of the voting rights. Those are not the same thing. Its like common stocks versus preferred stocks. Class A shares versus Class B shares.

The law also states that a foreigner may not have any undue influence on the operations of said airline.

Continental Airlines is asserting that SRB is running Virgin America from behind the scenes.

Of course politics is involved especially after the flap over the Dubai based firm trying to purchase the rights to American sea-ports. Anything to do with transportation security is going to get extra scrutiny from Federal agencies and Congress. This is something the American people demand.
 
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drerx7
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 12:26 pm

Jetdeltamsy is negating the fact that loyal OnePassers are not going to defect to Virgin America's few startup routes for a more savvy tv in the seat. Virgin America will not be as big of a player in the industry as you think, at least not for 5 years at least--I hope they are successful--but they have a long road ahead of them. SFO isn't exactly the most ideal airport for a startup anyway. I think your other points were pretty well addressed by the other a.netters on here so I won't add my piddly 2 cents -- they've already got that covered.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 12:34 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 43):
Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 26):
Legacy carriers, even Continental, have trouble providing a CONSISTENTLY high quality product.

actually not, CO has CONSISTENTLY been rated one of the top airlines in the United States/North America...(and no, I dont' fly CO....I'm a loyal AA-Platinum FF member)

It is my contention that no US legacy carrier is consistent enough in its service delivery. All US legacy carriers have cut costs so much that when anything off schedule or unanticipated occurs, it almost always results in significant service failures. To be sure, Continental receives high marks for getting it right much of the time, but there are too "bad days" at CO as well.

And clearly Virgin does something right because they have successfully competed again British Airways for years...one of the true financial powerhouses in the industry.

(And yes, you flamers out there, we have our share of problems at Deltas as well....but the thread isn't about Delta.)

[Edited 2006-05-11 05:41:28]
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
atmx2000
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RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 12:39 pm

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 41):
It's a tag-team event. As long as CO is doing all the bitching, others are happy to let them. Once they tire, someone else will start up. Eventually, it will deplete Virgin America's resources, or force them to change / make more transparent their ownership - financial sources.

Let's not forget that CO's been doing the bitching about Virgin Nigeria as well.

I just wonder if they will take the lead with regards to bitching about Virgin Blue or whatever they will be called if they fly to the US from AUS.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
F9Animal
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Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 12:42 pm

Is it me, or is it bad timing to start a new airline?
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
bebe2006
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 11:12 am

RE: VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition

Thu May 11, 2006 1:03 pm

Are you kidding? Investing in airlines irrespective of introductioni time line is high risk!
Love Branson and the brand he has created...free trade,let the consumer decide.
Tired of intrenched bureaucrats the disease of this industry where looking busy and being ineffectual...give us service and fun for the passenger
Thx