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PanAm_DC10
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Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 6:48 pm

Japan Airlines new President has confirmed that JAL is unlikely to buy the A380 as they wish to stay with their fleet plan of operating smaller models.

May 12 (Bloomberg) -- Japan Airlines Corp., which operates the nation's biggest aircraft fleet, said it is unlikely to buy Airbus SAS A380 airplanes, because the aircraft doesn't fit into its strategy of using smaller planes.

But he doesn't entirely rule out a purchase either

``If our rivals do well using the plane to offer luxury service to passengers, we'll have another look.''

[Fair use excerpt - http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...00101&sid=aFe6GEhMJUcU&refer=japan ]

From this, in my opinion, we will see more add-on orders for 773ERs such as we did in December last year.

Regards, PanAm_DC10
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Thorben
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 6:57 pm

I can only laugh about this. They have 72 747s in their fleet and 8 773As. They will replace the older jumbos with 773ERs, but how can he talk of "using smaller aircraft" there??

Probably just a tactic to get a lower price from Airbus for the A380. For routes to the US and to LHR and FRA the A380 is just the right thing for them.
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Sangas
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 7:04 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
But he doesn't entirely rule out a purchase either

``If our rivals do well using the plane to offer luxury service to passengers, we'll have another look.''

They'll have to do better than the test cabin on MSN002 we saw earlier this week.
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Tifoso
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 7:07 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 1):
They will replace the older jumbos with 773ERs, but how can he talk of "using smaller aircraft" there??

By using two smaller aircraft instead of one larger one?  eyebrow 
 
a380900
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 7:15 pm

Airbus should give exclusivity for 10 years to the first Japanese Airline which buys the A380. JAL's president would then stop his useless comments.

What he is really saying is: "we really don't want to participate in the success of the A380, but if it is a success, we'll be forced to join". We already knew that.
 
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 7:15 pm

LOL

"Japan Airlines in no-Airbus order Shocker"

A really big, big surprise there.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 7:15 pm

Quoting Tifoso (Reply 3):
Quoting Thorben (Reply 1):
They will replace the older jumbos with 773ERs, but how can he talk of "using smaller aircraft" there??

By using two smaller aircraft instead of one larger one?

My point is that they have masses of the biggest planes currently in service. How can he seriously say their plans are to use smaller planes?
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scouseflyer
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 7:20 pm

Quoting Sangas (Reply 2):
They'll have to do better than the test cabin on MSN002 we saw earlier this week.

What do you mean, that the cabin wasn't set out to be luxuroius?
 
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 7:31 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 1):
8 773As

That's 13 on order in total. Thus my statement about add-on orders. Thorben, I note you wrote 773A not 773ER, thus my reference to 773ERs for Long Haul and Domestic

Quoting Thorben (Reply 1):
They have 72 747s in their fleet

As they've signed up for the 747BCF program, they'll continue to convert some of these to freighters when they need. So the larger Airplanes will remain in the fleet, albeit cargo or even PAX.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 5):
"Japan Airlines in no-Airbus order Shocker"

A really big, big surprise there.

I slightly disagree sir. His predecessor ruled it out entirely, at least Mr Nishimatsu has not entirely ruled it out. Just being an optimist sir.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 1):
Probably just a tactic to get a lower price from Airbus for the A380

There's a flip side to that coin. By not entirely ruling it out, perhaps it's just a tactic to get Boeing to lower the price on the 748i to replace some of the 72 in service you've mentioned

Regards, PanAm_DC10

[EDIT - Clarification to Thorben on Model of 777]

[Edited 2006-05-12 12:38:03]
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atmx2000
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 7:38 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 6):
My point is that they have masses of the biggest planes currently in service. How can he seriously say their plans are to use smaller planes?

With Japan's population decreasing, fragmentation of Japan's international traffic amongst several airports, and with new smaller long range planes enabling more airlines to enter the transpacific market, the NRT hub will become less important. And with Japanese operating costs being high, Japanese airlines have to be careful about taking carrying more marginal customers in the back of the plane.
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Sangas
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 8:00 pm

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 7):
Quoting Sangas (Reply 2):
They'll have to do better than the test cabin on MSN002 we saw earlier this week.

What do you mean, that the cabin wasn't set out to be luxuroius?

Perhaps we'll see something somewhat more imaginative on MSN007 when that test cabin debuts. Otherwise I don't understand the test stategy, why test and certifiy more of the same old thing if the goal is to bring an unprecedented product to market?
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ltbewr
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 8:18 pm

Why should JAL have more types and brands of aircraft? Isn't it good airline mangement to use the fewest models and only 1 brand of aircraft? The 747, 777 and other Boeing aircraft meet their current and future anticipated needs. Boeing has accomindated JAL with specialized models (short haul/high pax capacity). Boeing currently makes and is expanding component manufacturing in Japan - not Airbus. Yes, they may tease with Airbus to get a better deal with Boeing, but I suspect they will continue to be 'all Boeing' for the foressable future.
 
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 8:42 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 8):
By not entirely ruling it out, perhaps it's just a tactic to get Boeing to lower the price on the 748i to replace some of the 72 in service you've mentioned

So then he would be buying bigger planes than what he currently has.  Confused
 
Phaeton
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 8:44 pm

With the Japanese market currently picking up again, airlines in Japan will probably need some A380 capacity in five to ten years time. In addition, not every airline is too keen to order a plane that hasn't even entered the market yet.
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Sangas
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 8:47 pm

Quoting Phaeton (Reply 13):
In addition, not every airline is too keen to order a plane that hasn't even entered the market yet.

JAL wasn't shy about ordering the 787?
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gkirk
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 8:55 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 1):



Quoting A380900 (Reply 4):

Not every airline needs or wants the A380 you know  Yeah sure
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MidnightMike
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 8:59 pm

Quoting Phaeton (Reply 13):
With the Japanese market currently picking up again, airlines in Japan will probably need some A380 capacity in five to ten years time. In addition, not every airline is too keen to order a plane that hasn't even entered the market yet.

Why? JAL has no probems with slots in Japan or in any other market.....
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naritaflyer
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 9:25 pm

Japanese airlines will not buy Airbus plain and simple. They will buy whatever aircraft so long as it's a Boeing. I am simplifying it here but the gist of it is that in Japan they will only buy Boeing and that's a fact. It has nothing to do with what the airlines need or which product is better. So long as the Boeings are relatively close in performance and price, it will be Boeing.

Don't take this wrong, especially Americans here, but Japan sells a lot of products to the US but the only thing Japan can buy from Americans of significant value is airplanes. American products lack quality for the Japanese market. So to reduce the trade deficit Japan buys military gear and Boeings.

Firget the A380, it will never be owned by the Japanese. The 747-8 is a good enough substitute and it's a Boeing.
 
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 9:29 pm

Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 17):
Japanese airlines will not buy Airbus plain and simple. They will buy whatever aircraft so long as it's a Boeing.

I disagree. I've heard straight from JAL's and ANA's mouth that they will never order a widebody airplane that they can't leverage both domestically and internationally. They are many reasons why they can't use the A380 domestically, (airports can't handle it being the biggest). So no point ordering the A380 for international service with such a small sub fleet.
 
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 9:31 pm

Quoting Airzim (Reply 18):
They are many reasons why they can't use the A380 domestically, (airports can't handle it being the biggest).

You may disagree if you wish but that's an absolute fact. Your post is wrong because Narita and KIX can handle the A380. That aircraft is not designed for smaller airports anyway.
 
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 9:34 pm

Quoting Phaeton (Reply 13):
With the Japanese market currently picking up again, airlines in Japan will probably need some A380 capacity in five to ten years time.

In a time frame of 5-10 years, there will be even more bullet trains in Japan that can go even faster, and are less of a hassle to take than a plane and enduring all the checks at the airport. Shinkansen will only get stronger as a competitor to JAL, and the airlines themselves are likely to add more p2p routes with all the new airports opening up. Realistically, the only 2 markets where JAL could do with the A380 are NRT-LAX and NRT-LHR, and I strongly doubt that they would add a whole new plane type just for 2 routes.
 
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 9:34 pm

Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 17):

I agree mostly. A fact you left out is that Japanese companies build a lot of parts of the 767, 777, and especially the 787.

But the 747-8 is not a good substitute for the A380. It is a derivative of a 40 years old plane, has the potential to be as successful as the 764, which even JAL and ANA did not buy.
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 9:39 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 21):
But the 747-8 is not a good substitute for the A380. It is a derivative of a 40 years old plane

This is a problem only for the A350 because it's not a Boeing.  Wink
 
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 9:43 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 21):
But the 747-8 is not a good substitute for the A380. It is a derivative of a 40 years old plane, has the potential to be as successful as the 764, which even JAL and ANA did not buy.

Yup, those A380s are selling in HUGE numbers nowadays, aren't they?  Wink
What's your intention in trying to start an A vs B flamefest may I ask?

I'm neutral, like both A and B a/c (except the A320)  Angry So I just wonder why people always try and  stirthepot  when it comes to A and B.
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 9:45 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
Japan Airlines new President has confirmed that JAL is unlikely to buy the A380 as they wish to stay with their fleet plan of operating smaller models.

Why is this news? Japan Air Lines is presently losing lots of money and has lots of issues it needs to address before it goes ordering new aircraft.
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Aither
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 9:59 pm

These guys are waiting from the market and not pushing it like carriers such as EK, CX, SQ, KE do.

The downsizing approach is like admitting to be defeated.

This reminds Swissair, over cautious, too conservative and ultimately failed. The Japanese have only the chance of having a loyal base of customers.
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deltadc9
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 10:14 pm

Quoting Tifoso (Reply 3):
By using two smaller aircraft instead of one larger one?

Kinda hard to miss that trend, but still they do.

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 15):
Not every airline needs or wants the A380 you know

Build it and they will come only worked in that movie as far as I know.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 21):
But the 747-8 is not a good substitute for the A380. It is a derivative of a 40 years old plane, has the potential to be as successful as the 764, which even JAL and ANA did not buy.

It is a perfectly adequate substitute, that is why there are so many RFPs with both models as competitors.

764? Are you trying to throw your credibility out the window? That was a plane designed specifically for Delta because their pilots would not allow them to continue buying 777's. CO had a similar need. It was never intended to be anything other than a special order from two long time excellent customers. JAL and ANA had no need since they were free to buy all the 777's they wanted. Talk about a moot point.

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 22):
This is a problem only for the A350 because it's not a Boeing

The 737NG is a derivative of even older plane, hows that program doing? The 350 is different and you know it. Its the difference between a competitive derivative and a non competitive one.
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donder10
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 10:17 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 1):
For routes to the US and to LHR and FRA the A380 is just the right thing for them.

Why then is JAP dropping its 2nd daily NRT-LHR flight?From most accounts,the yields on LHR-NRT are quite poor at the moment.
 
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 10:19 pm

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 27):
It is a perfectly adequate substitute, that is why there are so many RFPs with both models as competitors.

764? Are you trying to throw your credibility out the window? That was a plane designed specifically for Delta because their pilots would not allow them to continue buying 777's. CO had a similar need. It was never intended to be anything other than a special order from two long time excellent customers. JAL and ANA had no need since they were free to buy all the 777's they wanted. Talk about a moot point.

Let's see if the 747-8 sells more pax planes than the 764. Right now the 747-8 stands at zero, which is a little less that the 764.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 27):
The 737NG is a derivative of even older plane, hows that program doing? The 350 is different and you know it. Its the difference between a competitive derivative and a non competitive one.

The 737NG is only competitive because Airbus can't deliver the A32x fast enough.
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Pyrex
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 10:20 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 11):
Isn't it good airline mangement to use the fewest models and only 1 brand of aircraft?

No. Why should anyone reduce themselves to just one manufacturer, specially when there is no cockpit commonality between the aircraft of that manufacturer?
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airzim
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 10:20 pm

Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 19):
Quoting Airzim (Reply 18):
They are many reasons why they can't use the A380 domestically, (airports can't handle it being the biggest).

You may disagree if you wish but that's an absolute fact. Your post is wrong because Narita and KIX can handle the A380. That aircraft is not designed for smaller airports anyway.

Why don't you try re-reading what I wrote. So quick to judge.

I'll write it again in case you don't know how to scroll back.

JAL and ANA will not buy the A380 because they won't buy an airplane that can't be used BOTH domestically and internationally. I didn't say or imply that NRT or KIX can handle it, I said because the domestic airports can't and won't be modified to handle the A380 the Japanese carriers will never buy an airplane that can't be leveraged in BOTH markets. The 747 wasn't designed for small airports yet Boeing modified the 747 to handle high cycle domestic Japanese operations. That won't happen with the A380.

Secondly, JAL's and ANA's traffic just doesn't warrant a plane that size. They have very little 5th/6th freedom traffic over Japan. Over 80% of all traffic is originating or departing Japan. The 773 has and will prove to be a huge panacea for JAL and ANA in the international markets. It's the right size, with the right cost structure.
 
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 10:26 pm

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 24):
Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
Japan Airlines new President has confirmed that JAL is unlikely to buy the A380 as they wish to stay with their fleet plan of operating smaller models.

Why is this news?

Because it fits with their currently stated fleet plan, however,

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
But he doesn't entirely rule out a purchase either

``If our rivals do well using the plane to offer luxury service to passengers, we'll have another look.''

As I also posted, unlike his predecessor he doesn't entirely rule out that they will re-assess the VLA category, specifically the A380, if they have to in the future. That's the first time I've seen such a statement from any President of JAL.

True, they are losing money though the incoming Mr Nishimatsu whom is mandated to turn things around appears to be looking forward to a time when they may have to address the issue. That he at least considers it, I find to be newsworthy. Whether they buy it or not is another matter.

Regards, PanAm_DC10
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keesje
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 10:30 pm

In 2010 Narita, HongKong & Heathrow are stuffed with shiny A380's

Offering attractive comfort & prices tempting the home markets

That'll be the moment of truth for the local flag carriers
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gkirk
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 10:31 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 33):
That'll be the moment of truth for the local flag carriers

What? That A380s are ugly and they have no need for them?
 duck 
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deltadc9
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 10:34 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 29):
Right now the 747-8 stands at zero, which is a little less that the 764.

Make that 18 firm for the 748, where have you been?

Plus the 744 is sold out but for a handful of slots, outselling the 380 going on two years now BTW.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 29):
The 737NG is only competitive because Airbus can't deliver the A32x fast enough.

Boeing and Airbus are held back by the same thing, lack of an engine. Care to explain how a 40 year old plane competes with a much younger 320? I think you are incapable of dropping those Airbus pompoms.

Could it be that the 737NG really isn't 40 years old?
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gkirk
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 10:34 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 26):

What's wrong with the A320?

Personally I find them way too noisy.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 26):
OK, I'm sorry, Boeing makes the best planes in the world,

 Yeah sure
Airbus and Boeing both make great planes.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 29):
The 737NG is only competitive because Airbus can't deliver the A32x fast enough.

 rotfl  What an excuse!  rotfl 
After all, the 737NG Cannot be a good plane on its own merits, can it?  Yeah sure
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JAL
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 10:39 pm

Perhaps they will go for the 747-8
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Molykote
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 10:46 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 33):
In 2010 Narita, HongKong & Heathrow are stuffed with shiny A380's

Offering attractive comfort & prices tempting the home markets

That'll be the moment of truth for the local flag carriers

"Keesje" must be Dutch for Kool-Aid.

Let me finish your story......

The majestic A380 will rise before above the land thus taking its rightful place as the new rising sun of Japan. Fire will spew from the belly of the great beast and engulf all who doubted her superiority and worshiped the false idol of Boeing. The faithful will rejoice as the A380 takes her place at the right hand of the emperor while all who followed the dark path of Boeing will perish in flame - their ashes being banished form the land by the mighty thrust of the A380 engines. The last of the Boeing aircraft will attempt an escape but fly too close the sun on wings of aluminum - plunging into the great sea and forever eradicating this earth of all that is unholy.

Did I forget anything?
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Boeing Nut
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 10:48 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 1):



Quoting A380900 (Reply 4):

 Yeah sure

Quoting Thorben (Reply 21):
But the 747-8 is not a good substitute for the A380. It is a derivative of a 40 years old plane, has the potential to be as successful as the 764, which even JAL and ANA did not buy.

Apples and oranges. It's been said time and time again that these two aircraft do not compete. There's a big difference between a 450 seater than a 550+ seater.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 26):
What's wrong with the A320?

Nothing at all, except that it's a 20+ year old design - gee, who does that sound like?

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 27):
The 737NG is a derivative of even older plane, hows that program doing?

Case closed of, if it ain't broke.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 29):
Let's see if the 747-8 sells more pax planes than the 764. Right now the 747-8 stands at zero, which is a little less that the 764.

 Yeah sure I'm saving this quote for a little later down the road. How do you like your crow by the way?
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
keesje
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 10:53 pm

Quoting Molykote (Reply 38):
Did I forget anything?

Yes, the original post

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
``If our rivals do well using the plane to offer luxury service to passengers, we'll have another look.''

 Wink
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 10:55 pm

Boeing outsources a lot of work to large companies in the US, and has done for a long time.

Buying Airbus would be seen as endangering the interests of the large trading houses that control the industrial manufacturers - and would be seen as a slur on them. Not a good idea.

The Airbus would have to be a really, really awesome performer, waaaaaaaay above the competing Boeing for it to offset the problems ordering it would cause (See ANA's A320 order - As soon as the 737NG became a real competitor, they dumped the A320s in favour of the 737NG). They are not stupid, and they know ruling out Airbus could cause problems later, but i'd be absolutely amazed if the A380, or the A357/70 ever found a home at JAL/ANA.

Being Japanese, there will be reasons for the decision, and these will likely incude that the turnaround lag time of the A380 over the 777 or 744D means that it is not as competitive, lack of suitable infrastructure to handle the A380 outside of Osaka and Tokyo (Kobe, Hiroshima, Nagoya, and Okinawa would all be candidates to get it, and none are A380-ready) etc.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
Poitin
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 10:56 pm

Quoting Molykote (Reply 38):
The last of the Boeing aircraft will attempt an escape but fly too close the sun on wings of aluminum - plunging into the great sea and forever eradicating this earth of all that is unholy.

Did I forget anything?

I think it is the "Boeing's composite Fuselage melts in the sun", lad. But otherwise a fitting saga worthy of the Great Warlord of Toulouse. Could you please pass the Kool Aid? This saga has given me a thirst.
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 10:56 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 40):
Quoting Molykote (Reply 38):
Did I forget anything?

Yes, the original post

 highfive 
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
Molykote
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 10:58 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
``If our rivals do well using the plane to offer luxury service to passengers, we'll have another look.''

This was understood but your enthusiasm for Airbus products is apparent enough that I had to poke some fun.
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 11:10 pm

Quoting Molykote (Reply 44):
Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
``If our rivals do well using the plane to offer luxury service to passengers, we'll have another look.''

This was understood but your enthusiasm for Airbus products is apparent enough that I had to poke some fun.

Molykote

Would you please care to link me to the abundance of post's that lead you to draw such a conclusion about whether I prefer one manufacturer over the other? I'd like to see you substantiate that.

I'm partial to both OEMs as a professional whom provides Finance for Airlines and as someone whom enjoys the industry. I think you'll find your statement unsubstantiated sir and I would prefer if you actually contributed to the discussion rather than make such a post which does nothing other than detract from the quality of discusson some of us would like to be involved in.

PanAm_DC10
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Sangas
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 11:15 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 33):
In 2010 Narita, HongKong & Heathrow are stuffed with shiny A380's

Offering attractive comfort & prices tempting the home markets

That'll be the moment of truth for the local flag carriers

Mr. Nishimatsu seems to be acknowledging that cabin service may be the most significant future battleground in the Japanese long-haul markets by saying:

"If our rivals do well using the plane to offer luxury service to passengers, we'll have another look.''

What remains far from a foregone conclusion is whether heightened expectations as to the "luxury potential" of the A380 materializes in the form of actual cabin configurations which can't be duplicated in other aircraft, and whether such configurations can be operated profitably? In short, will reality meet and/or exceed the hype?
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PlaneHunter
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 11:19 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 21):
But the 747-8 is not a good substitute for the A380. It is a derivative of a 40 years old plane, has the potential to be as successful as the 764, which even JAL and ANA did not buy.

The B747-8 will offer what the B764 lacked (compared to its competitor): range. And btw - being a derivative does not necessarily mean anything.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 29):
The 737NG is only competitive because Airbus can't deliver the A32x fast enough.

So Boeing has sold more than 3200 B737NGs just because Airbus couldn't deliver fast enough? Get real.  Yeah sure

If you had followed the order races between both models over the past years you would know both models are very close in performance. Both feature advantages and disadvantages over each other, there's no clear performance leader.


PH
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keesje
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 11:55 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 45):
Would you please care to link me to the abundance of post's that lead you to draw such a conclusion about whether I prefer one manufacturer over the other? I'd

He folks I don't what "the abundance of post's" means but PanAM_DC10 seems pretty impartial.

Quoting Sangas (Reply 46):
In short, will reality meet and/or exceed the hype?

What hype? Remarkably I only seem to read about A380 swimming pools, casino's & what ever on a.net, and only people saying it's unrealistic which is a kind of kicking a dead horse.

Quoting Sangas (Reply 46):
actual cabin configurations which can't be duplicated in other aircraft

If you currently fly ~ 300 seat 744's (BA, UA, LH, ..) and you have follow competition in more room / comfort upgrades, CASM moves up fast and square feet move up in the priority list.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
474218
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Fri May 12, 2006 11:56 pm

Quoting Phaeton (Reply 13):
With the Japanese market currently picking up again, airlines in Japan will probably need some A380 capacity in five to ten years time. In addition, not every airline is too keen to order a plane that hasn't even entered the market yet.

In 5 or 10 years JAL can order A380's if they need them, assuming there still in production.
 
flyinghippo
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RE: Japan Airlines "Unlikely" To Buy A380

Sat May 13, 2006 12:07 am

Quoting Thorben (Reply 21):
But the 747-8 is not a good substitute for the A380. It is a derivative of a 40 years old plane, has the potential to be as successful as the 764, which even JAL and ANA did not buy.

Got news for you... I agree!!! 747-8 is not a good substitute for the A380... BECAUSE THOSE TWO PLANES SERVE TWO DIFFERENT MARKET SEGMENTS!!!

A 500+ passenger aircraft do not compete with a 400+ passenger aircraft... It's like saying that A332 is not a good substitute for B744!

Do 748 compete INDIRECTLY with A388, I would say yes. Before 748, if an airline needs a modest increase in capacity, the only choice is A388. Now, a modest step up from 744 can be 748, thus taking potential A388 orders away.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 26):
OK, I'm sorry, Boeing makes the best planes in the world, Airbus only makes political sales (like Air India), is paid by the Japanese taxpayer, is completely sales driven, while Boeing is engineering-led, so when Boeing comes out with the all-new A380, Airbus counters with a warmed-up 747, anyway, Boeing is the best, the world is flat and the four seasons are salt pepper, mustard, and vinegar. Besides, four engines are really bad. One engine uses 50% less fuel than two engines, so if you have two engines less, you'll use 100% less fuel. So Airbus has no chance with a nine abreast A350 of 75m length against the fuel-efficient 747-8. OK, everybody happy now?

Wow... you got issues...

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 27):
764? Are you trying to throw your credibility out the window? That was a plane designed specifically for Delta because their pilots would not allow them to continue buying 777's. CO had a similar need. It was never intended to be anything other than a special order from two long time excellent customers.

You might want to double check on that assumption. IIRC, 764 was also offered to other airlines, and did receive some MOUs (Kenya Airways??) before being cancelled.

The fact is that 764 was Boeing's reaction to A330, and was unsuccessful. A330 killed the 767 and all it's varients.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 27):
The 737NG is a derivative of even older plane, hows that program doing? The 350 is different and you know it. Its the difference between a competitive derivative and a non competitive one.

Bingo!

Quoting Thorben (Reply 29):
The 737NG is only competitive because Airbus can't deliver the A32x fast enough.

If that's the reason an airline would choose a fleet of aircrafts over another, applying the same logic, wouldn't a lot of airlines buy A350 (Before it was revised for the 4th time) since the 787 has been sold out for the first 2 years?