lemonkitty
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 6:16 pm

Southwest Airlines Eyes Overseas Routes

Sat May 13, 2006 2:45 am

Here is the link to the press release...

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/business/14517010.htm
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FATFlyer
Posts: 4437
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: Southwest Airlines Eyes Overseas Routes

Sat May 13, 2006 2:54 am

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
SeeTheWorld
Posts: 1090
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:46 am

RE: Southwest Airlines Eyes Overseas Routes

Sat May 13, 2006 2:56 am

Clearly, Southwest will spend the next couple of years analyzing how the codeshare with ATA to international destinations plays out. Unless, Southwest acquires ATA, I wouldn't expect any Southwest-only international flights until 2009 at the earliest, as Kelly aludes to in the press release.
 
connector4you
Posts: 768
Joined: Wed May 16, 2001 10:27 am

RE: Southwest Airlines Eyes Overseas Routes

Sat May 13, 2006 3:00 am

Open sky agreement between US and Europe might fuel high hopes and thoughts for a large number of airlines on both sides of the pond. Would somebody like Ryanair consider this opportunity as well? You bet.
 
Slovacek747
Posts: 634
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:10 pm

RE: Southwest Airlines Eyes Overseas Routes

Sat May 13, 2006 4:49 am

man wouldn't it be cool to see Southwest take on Ryanair head to head across the atlantic... one could only dream...

Slovacek747
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9811
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

RE: Southwest Airlines Eyes Overseas Routes

Sat May 13, 2006 4:55 am

I noticed this press release was from DFW.com, not from WN.com. Hmm very interesting!
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
PSA727
Posts: 845
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:49 am

RE: Southwest Airlines Eyes Overseas Routes

Sat May 13, 2006 9:33 am

Quoting Connector4you (Reply 3):
Would somebody like Ryanair consider this opportunity as well? You bet.

Ryanair would have to greatly alter their business practices to make
this possible.

I believe that U.S. security measures now require all passengers to
have assigned seating.
And from what I've been told by F/As is that if there are fewer pax
boarded on a plane than the number checked-in for that flight, they
have to find out who those pax are and have their luggage removed
from their aircraft.
Have you seen how Ryanair handles luggage?

Plus, Ryanair does not allow ticketing for connecting flights, everything
is sold point-to-point. So I don't know how viable a Frankfurt/Hahn to
Stewart/Newburgh, NY flight would be.

And wasn't Ryanair pondering at one point if lavatories could be removed
from aircraft and replaced with more seating?
fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
 
Boeing747_600
Posts: 605
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 1999 4:01 am

RE: Southwest Airlines Eyes Overseas Routes

Sat May 13, 2006 9:41 am

Southwest 141, Bangalore Radar. Descent Two-Six-Zero, Mach Deimal Seven-Eight Minimum.

 

[Edited 2006-05-13 02:43:32]
 
midex461
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2000 11:08 am

RE: Southwest Airlines Eyes Overseas Routes

Sat May 13, 2006 9:41 am

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 6):
And wasn't Ryanair pondering at one point if lavatories could be removed
from aircraft and replaced with more seating?

PLEASE tell me this is a joke!
Opinions and views expressed are MINE and do NOT represent the views of US Airways
 
UnitedTristar
Posts: 839
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 6:45 am

RE: Southwest Airlines Eyes Overseas Routes

Sat May 13, 2006 9:51 am

Quoting Midex461 (Reply 8):
PLEASE tell me this is a joke!

I doubt it...Ryanair was the company that disciplined its employees for charging their cell phones at work..becuase it is "company power"

-m

 airplane 
 
PSA727
Posts: 845
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:49 am

RE: Southwest Airlines Eyes Overseas Routes

Sat May 13, 2006 10:05 am

Quoting Midex461 (Reply 8):

And wasn't Ryanair pondering at one point if lavatories could be removed
from aircraft and replaced with more seating?


PLEASE tell me this is a joke!

No, I believe I read it in an aviation journal about 1 or 2 years ago.
Around the time they decided not to have window shades put on
their aircraft and to not allow their seatbacks to recline.

Can you imagine how miserable that would be on a trans-Atlantic flight?

Remember that Ryanair when it comes to passenger consideration is
mildly offensive at best. Let's not forget the wheelchair responsiblity
at airports debacle. And of course the time they denied boarding to
the majority of a group of blind (I believe that was their impairment)
people because they said that the law prevented carrying more
than a certain number on a single flight because of the possibilty of
an emergency evacuation.
fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
 
san747
Posts: 4345
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 10:03 am

RE: Southwest Airlines Eyes Overseas Routes

Sat May 13, 2006 10:11 am

Quoting Slovacek747 (Reply 4):
man wouldn't it be cool to see Southwest take on Ryanair head to head across the atlantic...

We Americans might dig  twocents  flights, or $1 or $9 flights like I hear Ryanair does back in Europe...

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 6):
And wasn't Ryanair pondering at one point if lavatories could be removed from aircraft and replaced with more seating?

Of course, we might not dig that.
Scotty doesn't know...
 
sllevin
Posts: 3312
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:57 pm

RE: Southwest Airlines Eyes Overseas Routes

Sat May 13, 2006 10:32 am

Getting rid of all the lavs seems extreme, but getting rid of all but 1 might make sense on the short sectors.

Steve
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Southwest Airlines Eyes Overseas Routes

Sat May 13, 2006 10:40 am

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 6):
I believe that U.S. security measures now require all passengers to
have assigned seating.

No. FAA/TSA could care less how airlines assign or not assign seats with the exception of exit row regulations.

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 6):
And from what I've been told by F/As is that if there are fewer pax
boarded on a plane than the number checked-in for that flight, they
have to find out who those pax are and have their luggage removed
from their aircraft.

This is called "positive passenger bag match", and has nothing to do with if Mr Joe Doe is assigned a seat or can open sit himself.

Without getting into the details of how airline passengers are checked in and accounted for, its a relatively simple to verify if all checked in passengers are on board via either electronic boarding methods, or manual procedures incorporated in the boarding process.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
PSA727
Posts: 845
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:49 am

RE: Southwest Airlines Eyes Overseas Routes

Sat May 13, 2006 10:49 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 13):
No. FAA/TSA could care less how airlines assign or not assign seats with the exception of exit row regulations.

I was referring to international flights.

I remember that before 9/11 this was done on flights to London.
And that was a U.K. security measure, not a U.S. one.
United did this on their IAD-LHR flights, or at least announced this
"policy" over the PA system before the boarding door was closed.
fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Southwest Airlines Eyes Overseas Routes

Sat May 13, 2006 10:59 am

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 14):
I was referring to international flights.

If there is I better find out, as I know airlines (primarily charter carriers) still allow open seating on international services to/from the US. Also some of the worlds many low cost carrier business models use open seating.

Either way to be honest I don't see assigned seating as having anything to do with what you mentioned about baggage. There are well established positive bag match procedures that airlines use, that have no relationship to any form or seating methodology.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
PSA727
Posts: 845
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:49 am

RE: Southwest Airlines Eyes Overseas Routes

Sat May 13, 2006 11:17 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 15):
Either way to be honest I don't see assigned seating as having anything to do with what you mentioned about baggage.

I don't know what procedures used today were in place 15 or 20 years
ago, but the annoncements on the trans-Atlantic flights to London went
like this:

"Before we can depart from the gate everyone has to be seated in
their assigned seats. If there is an empty seat which should be
occupied then that passenger's baggage has to be unloaded before
we can get the final authorization to close the door."

This seemed to be the practice when there wasn't an accurate pax
count because it wasn't done on every flight to London, and it was
never done on any of the other US-European flights I flew on.

Now I know that today I have witnessed ramp agents loading pax
luggage using barcode readers while it is put onto the loading belt.
That I think satifies the pax-baggage match requirement the govt
requires.

I'm only going on what I experienced from my flights and what the
crew members said to us passengers, not what the government
has in written mandate.
fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
 
bestpilot
Posts: 78
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 1:33 pm

RE: Southwest Airlines Eyes Overseas Routes

Sat May 13, 2006 11:49 am

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 6):
I believe that U.S. security measures now require all passengers to
have assigned seating.

Incorrect. Southwest still uses the group boarding system and does not have assigned seats. Requiring all passengers to have assigned seating would be pointless, as pax switch seats to be close to friends, family, etc. once onboard.

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 6):
And wasn't Ryanair pondering at one point if lavatories could be removed
from aircraft and replaced with more seating?

Lavatories absolutely can be removed and replaced with seating. Airlines do it all the time when altering the seating configuration of an aircraft. Of course, you don't mean remove ALL of the lavs? That'd be a shitty situation.
 
WesternA318
Posts: 4475
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:55 am

RE: Southwest Airlines Eyes Overseas Routes

Sat May 13, 2006 12:00 pm

Quoting Slovacek747 (Reply 4):
man wouldn't it be cool to see Southwest take on Ryanair head to head across the atlantic... one could only dream...

Lol. Can anyone fill me in on how PeoplExpress did it?
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
bestpilot
Posts: 78
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 1:33 pm

RE: Southwest Airlines Eyes Overseas Routes

Sat May 13, 2006 12:20 pm

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 18):
Can anyone fill me in on how PeoplExpress did it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_Express

Also read about Laker Airways:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freddie_Laker
 
SkyexRamper
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:17 am

RE: Southwest Airlines Eyes Overseas Routes

Sat May 13, 2006 12:38 pm

Southwest won't go over the pond, it would kill them and their successful world renowned business plan. The most I see them doing is going into the vacation cities on mexico and 2-3 cities in canada.
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
WesternA318
Posts: 4475
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:55 am

RE: Southwest Airlines Eyes Overseas Routes

Sat May 13, 2006 2:10 pm

I can also see them venturing into the Caribbean markets too, but would AA attempt to squash them from this?
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
scoliodon
Posts: 212
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:15 pm

RE: Southwest Airlines Eyes Overseas Routes

Sat May 13, 2006 2:23 pm

I agree Skyexramper..I don't think Southwest would go over the pond either.

The main reasons for Southwest's success are
1) Faster turnaround time
2) Single Aircraft type (1 is partly is a result of 2)
3) Relational competence among its employees
4) Relatively short-haul flights from not-too-busy airports

I guess transatlantic flights would simply create too much pressure on the WN way of operation.

(am reading the book "The Southwest Airlines way" by Jody Hoffer Gittell..a great book)

Anyway this is just my guess and I'm sure there are lot of thinkers out there who could make the impossible possible  Smile
JFK-LGA-EWR-DTW-IND-PHX-CLE-SFO-LAS-SEA-ORD-MCO-MIA-DFW-ATL-CDG-FRA-BOM-MAA-DEL-TRZ-DXB-CLT-CVG-DEN-MSP
 
We're Nuts
Posts: 4723
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2000 6:12 am

RE: Southwest Airlines Eyes Overseas Routes

Sat May 13, 2006 4:04 pm

Quoting Scoliodon (Reply 22):
(am reading the book "The Southwest Airlines way" by Jody Hoffer Gittell..a great book)

Don't forget "Relational Coordination" and "Cross-Communication". And yes, it's an awesome book for anyone who wants to know how a business should be run.
Dear moderators: No.
 
ComeAndGo
Posts: 813
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:58 pm

RE: Southwest Airlines Eyes Overseas Routes

Sat May 13, 2006 4:18 pm

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 6):
And from what I've been told by F/As is that if there are fewer pax
boarded on a plane than the number checked-in for that flight, they
have to find out who those pax are and have their luggage removed
from their aircraft.

As far as I know all European Carriers have to pull bags when the checked passengers don't show on the flight. It was a direct result from the Pan Am 107 bombing investigation. It was American carriers who found the practice to be too cumbersome and lobbied the government to drop it. (pre 9/11)
 
DesertAir
Posts: 1265
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:34 am

RE: Southwest Airlines Eyes Overseas Routes

Sat May 13, 2006 9:33 pm

It makes sense to me that WN would encourage/enable the expansion of ATA international routes and provide the feed into them. It sounds like a possible win-win situation for both carriers.
 
nateDAL
Posts: 404
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:38 am

RE: Southwest Airlines Eyes Overseas Routes

Sat May 13, 2006 9:50 pm

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 20):
The most I see them doing is going into the vacation cities on mexico and 2-3 cities in canada.

WN is not a leisure airline. See what I said here
Set Love Free
 
Joost
Posts: 1841
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:27 pm

RE: Southwest Airlines Eyes Overseas Routes

Sat May 13, 2006 9:56 pm

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 10):
And of course the time they denied boarding to
the majority of a group of blind (I believe that was their impairment)
people because they said that the law prevented carrying more
than a certain number on a single flight because of the possibilty of
an emergency evacuation.

When it is the law, you can not blame Ryanair. If they would take the people on board, they would breach safety regulations.

The whole story is not made public. If the people at their booking would have told they were blind, they would be warned that they couldn't get all on the same flight. If that was the case, you can blame Ryanair for miscommunication: not good, but this are things that can happen to any carrier - people just blame Ryanair more than they would blame BA or SQ.

If the people did not mention being blind while booking, and just showed up as a group, it's their own fault. They should have read the T&Cs better (by using a Braille (is that the english word?) reader or speech synthesiser on their computer, or let somebody read it for them) and find out it could be an issue. Also, when they are booking by telephone, IMO it's their own responsability to mention that they are blind and inform for complications. When you are traveling with a group of blind people, you know for yourself that you need extra attention and aid, and they should have had the good sense to mention it.

But as we don't know if they did, we can't blame any of them.

Quoting Sllevin (Reply 12):
Getting rid of all the lavs seems extreme, but getting rid of all but 1 might make sense on the short sectors.

Just what I think. For short hops the toilets often aren't used at all, and for some longer hops 1 toilet must be enough.

As people have to pay for their drinks, they drink less than on carriers where drinks are inclusive and thus toilet use is considerably less.
 
GSPSPOT
Posts: 2192
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:44 am

RE: Southwest Airlines Eyes Overseas Routes

Sat May 13, 2006 11:31 pm

It'd be great if someone like Airtran (or ATA, I guess) did transatlantic. At least these airlines' business models include front cabins ("business class"), and that could/should be translated to transatlantic service.

You know - probably not any different food service, but larger seats, more room, and complimentay drinks.
Finally made it to an airline mecca!
 
AirWillie6475
Posts: 2372
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:45 pm

RE: Southwest Airlines Eyes Overseas Routes

Sun May 14, 2006 2:12 am

Hello? This article says noting about overseas. They might do Canada or Mexico runs and with ATA at that, nothing amaizing about that. Please use a better title.
 
Midway2AirTran
Posts: 847
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 7:34 am

RE: Southwest Airlines Eyes Overseas Routes

Sun May 14, 2006 2:33 am

Quoting Scoliodon (Reply 22):
2) Single Aircraft type (1 is partly is a result of 2)

With technology/training improvements and outsourced maintaince these days, having a single aircraft type may not be so much more efficent, maybe less. Take a look at the success of EasyJet implementing two types. Their model was also influenced by Southwest.

I think Southwest will be flying multiple fleet types when conditions call for it in the not so distant future.

Quoting Scoliodon (Reply 22):
Relatively short-haul flights from not-too-busy airports

Refering to the "The Southwest Airlines Way" Relational Cordination also allows a company's adaptation to changing industry demands as we seen with WN serving more busier airports and venturing into a lot of trans-con flying. Southwest is not rigid as people tend to think, many other airlines are, which is probably why people feel like that.

I would expect to see more suprises from Southwest in the near future, over-seas flying might be a while but there are international destinations that are very possible in a shorter amount of time.
"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
 
PSA727
Posts: 845
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:49 am

RE: Southwest Airlines Eyes Overseas Routes

Sun May 14, 2006 8:02 am

Quoting Joost (Reply 27):
When it is the law, you can not blame Ryanair. If they would take the people on board, they would breach safety regulations.

The whole story is not made public. If the people at their booking would have told they were blind, they would be warned that they couldn't get all on the same flight. If that was the case, you can blame Ryanair for miscommunication: not good, but this are things that can happen to any carrier - people just blame Ryanair more than they would blame BA or SQ.

Newsflash:

It is not the law! When this story became public, a newspaper had
contacted a U.K. aviation official, and he debuked this claim by
Ryanair. I believe his comments were that if there were an equal
amount of vision "unimpaired" people on the flight, and if there were
an emergency, then technically one vision "capable" person could
assist a vision "incapable" person during evacuation.

The only prohibition in place, the official said, is that they are not
allowed to be seated at an exit row.

Think about it, if this "law" could be imposed upon blind people, then
why isn't there one imposed upon the number of children on board
an aircraft? They are probably just as handicapped in an emergency
as blind people.
fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Southwest Airlines Eyes Overseas Routes

Sun May 14, 2006 8:25 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 5):
I noticed this press release was from DFW.com, not from WN.com. Hmm very interesting!

FYI, DFW.com has nothing to do with the DFW airport, and is instead one of the web addresses for the Ft. Worth Star-Telegram newspaper...

This story first came out some weeks ago (Kelly's comments were made while at a meeting/conference in LAS, IIRC), and about a week later, another media outlet came out with the same story based on the preceeding one, and that pattern has repeated 4-5 times now, it seems. Every time the story comes out again, someone starts a new thread, and it seems like we've had 4-5 of those as well.

Southwest will someday, I assume, have some international services, but I suspect I'll be retired by then...  Wink
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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par13del
Posts: 6678
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

RE: Southwest Airlines Eyes Overseas Routes

Sun May 14, 2006 9:12 am

The problem WN business plan faces is in the international market is political.
Here's my example NAS (MYNN). Bahamians spend a lot of time in the Miami / FLL area for commerce, we basically import a lot. AA Eagle brigdes MIA - NAS with its turbo-props, previously during the 6:30am - 3:pm time frame they ran flights on the hour, our govt. does not kick up too much of a fuss since one 737 by our national carrier ( UP) took 115-120 pax at a time.
If WN were to bridge FLL-NAS with a 737 us Bahamians would love it, but would our govt. allow them to run the flag carrier off. We are talking about selling it off so anything is possible.

The route fits WN business plan, short flight time - 25-30mins, quick turn 30mins and the market is there with local as well as tourist traffic. Only hitch is the baggage issue, we will be loading up that hold which during peak times delays flights, no joke, you can get the people onboard faster than the bags.