Fly2HMO
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Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:14 pm

Will There Be A 787-F?

Sat May 13, 2006 4:16 am

I don't remember ever hearing a freighter version being a possibility. Would it hurt the 777F sales if they did a 787F?
 
brendows
Posts: 801
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:55 pm

RE: Will There Be A 787-F?

Sat May 13, 2006 4:33 am

Quoting FLY2HMO (Thread starter):
I don't remember ever hearing a freighter version being a possibility. Would it hurt the 777F sales if they did a 787F?

Officially, there are no plans for a 787F. But as we all know, the 787 is replacing the 767, so I guess that a 787F is pretty likely.
Will it hurt the 777F sales? No, it will simply not be able to lift the same amount of payload as the 777F. Remember, the 777F is based upon the 772LR, and has a MTOW of about 775klbs! I know, it's the payload that matters, and the 777W will be able to lift a pretty huge load, about 104tonnes, while a 788F will be able to lift something about 77tonnes. They're not in the same league.

[Edited 2006-05-12 21:54:40]
 
DAYflyer
Posts: 3546
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: Will There Be A 787-F?

Sat May 13, 2006 4:53 am

Boeing I thought had made it pretty clear there were no plans for a 787 F
One Nation Under God
 
DfwRevolution
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Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: Will There Be A 787-F?

Sat May 13, 2006 4:55 am

Quoting FLY2HMO (Thread starter):
I don't remember ever hearing a freighter version being a possibility.

It's a very distinct possibility, just not at this time. Maybe by 2015-2020, but certainly not in the immediate future.
 
zvezda
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RE: Will There Be A 787-F?

Sat May 13, 2006 5:17 am

First Boeing need to raise the B787's MTOW from 540,000 lbs to somewhere between 620,000 and 640,000 lbs by adding a two-wheel center bogey and strengthening the primary structure. That would make possible B787-9ER, B787-10ER, B787-11X, and B787F models, all of which are hypothetical at this time. Higher thrust engines would also be required.

A B787F with a MTOW of 620,000 lbs would have an OEW of about 265,000 lbs. Max useable fuel is 220,000 lbs and max payload could match or exceed the 229,000 lbs of the B777F. The B787F would have much better operating costs, but the B777F would have better range.
 
Fly2HMO
Posts: 7207
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:14 pm

RE: Will There Be A 787-F?

Sat May 13, 2006 6:14 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 4):
The B787F would have much better operating costs,



Quoting Brendows (Reply 1):
They're not in the same league.

True, but wouldn't the low operating costs of a high MTOW 787 offset the shorter range penalty compared to the 777F, even if the 787 has to make a stop for fuel?

BTW, when's the 777F EIS?

Thx for the answers guys.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Will There Be A 787-F?

Sat May 13, 2006 6:16 am

 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Will There Be A 787-F?

Sat May 13, 2006 6:45 am

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 5):
True, but wouldn't the low operating costs of a high MTOW 787 offset the shorter range penalty compared to the 777F, even if the 787 has to make a stop for fuel?

For some operators, certainly.

BTW, it's not a given that a B787F would have as much or more payload capacity as the B777F, but Boeing could build it that way if they wanted to. Boeing might choose a lower payload capacity to keep the OEW and operating costs down. The CFRP fuselage gives Boeing a lot of freedom to choose. Hypothetically, they could even give it more payload capability than the B747-8F but it would have very poor range if they did, so they won't. My guess is that the B787F will have very roughly similar payload capability to the B777F -- more likely less than more.
 
andrewuber
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RE: Will There Be A 787-F?

Sat May 13, 2006 7:13 am

In about 30 years there will be!  laughing 

Although in retrospect, cutting a hole in a composite fusleage to install a cargo door may get interesting....

Drew
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Will There Be A 787-F?

Sat May 13, 2006 7:22 am

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 8):
cutting a hole in a composite fusleage to install a cargo door may get interesting....

I don't expect any conversions from B787-8 to B787F for three reasons:
1) adding reinforcements around the door cutouts would be suboptimal,
2) the MTOW would have to be increased greatly, and
3) a two-wheel center bogey would have to be added to cope with the MTOW.

About the only parts from a B787-8 that would be needed for a B787F would be the wings, nose, and empennage. The rest of the fuselage and the undercarriage would be different.

My guess is that any B787Fs would be purpose built.
 
kaitak744
Posts: 2086
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:32 pm

RE: Will There Be A 787-F?

Sat May 13, 2006 1:15 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 9):
About the only parts from a B787-8 that would be needed for a B787F would be the wings, nose, and empennage. The rest of the fuselage and the undercarriage would be different.

My guess is that any B787Fs would be purpose built.

Which is one of the reasons Boeing is making the 787 the world's first "recyclable" airliner. It has no need to go into converted freighter life. The airlines can just get money by selling the parts of their old 787s which would then be melted down or something.
 
bmacleod
Posts: 2502
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 3:10 am

RE: Will There Be A 787-F?

Sun May 14, 2006 3:17 am

The freighter development market looks pretty full right now with the A380F, 777F, the 747-8F plus over 100 of MD-11s waiting for freighter conversion. There are also 763s in freighter conversion.

No, right now the 787 is only directed at the passenger market to replace the 767 series with the 787-10 replacing older 777s.
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus

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