redtailmsp
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NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Sat May 13, 2006 11:08 pm

NWA are going to operate EWR-AMS in place of KLM beginning Nov 1st, temporarily until March 31, 2007. Will be operated by A330-300 as flt numbers NWA64 EWR-AMS and NWA 63 AMS-EWR. Will also see MEM-AMS as A330-200 as of Nov 1st and AMS-BOM as of Oct 1st - again A330-200. MSP-AMS should become all A330 at end of December too, so that would mark end of DC10 flying to AMS. MSP-LGW - not sure when this will become A330, but must be right around the same timeframe.
 
AlitaliaMD11
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NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Sun May 14, 2006 12:29 am

Any ideas why Northwest is taking over the EWR-AMS-EWR route again? The took over once before earlier this year but that's because the airline was short an aircraft.
No Vueling No Party
 
redtailmsp
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NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Sun May 14, 2006 12:40 am

NWA and KLM share revenues on their transatlantic operations, so it doesn't matter who flies the routes revenue-wise. I am sure it is due to KLM needing the aircraft in another market. KLM currently fly the A330 EWR-AMS, and according to the computer reservations system, this route was supposed to revert to the 767 for the winter. NWA and KLM have swapped markets previously and, I am sure, will continue to in the future, when one or the other sees a need to utilize aircraft in new markets. Examples have been MSP-AMS, DTW-AMS, MEM-AMS, EWR-AMS, JFK-AMS.
 
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DesertFlyer
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NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Sun May 14, 2006 1:49 am

Goodbye to the D10, since it looks like almost all of NW's operation of them is into AMS. While the A330 is such a nice plane, it's always sad to see a classic slowly fade away. Let's hope they don't sub the D10 out on flight 46 this July, since that looks to be one of the last chances I'll have to fly on one.
 
dutchjet
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NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Sun May 14, 2006 4:24 am

Interesting, its probably nothing more than an aircraft allocation issue so NW will operate the EWR-AMS route for the winter season.....KL is in the process of phasing out its 763 fleet and has increased service on some routes while awaiting 772s and A332s to be delivered. It could also have to do with maintainance schedules......KL's MD11s and 744s are due for some interior upgrades as well as heavy maintainance. As pointed out, its not the first time that KL and NW have swapped transatlantic routes over the years. Interesting sidenote: when NW flew the "traditional" JFK-AMS flight (KL600/601) for a period of time, some Dutch pax and commentators were a bit upset, how could KL allow NW fly one of its most historic and flagship routes? I am certain that the EWR service will not be subject to such commentary.

I do find aircraft allocation interesting:

EWR-AMS on the A333 (quite a step up from the 763 that flew the route for years......especially during the low winter season).

MEM-AMS on the A332 - makes sense, although I thought that A332s were not going to do transatlantic runs, expect for SEA-AMS.

AMS-BOM on the A332 - thats surprising, a rather "small" airplane for a route such as this. KL and NW work together on the India routes, and probably could fill up a 744 on a daily basis (a good perecentage of India-Mumbai/Dehli flights are flown with the 744 to keep up with demand.)
 
LFutia
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RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Sun May 14, 2006 8:14 am

wow interesting! What is KL going to do with the A332 that its sending to EWR, what route is that A332 going to replace the 767.

Leo
Leo/ORD -- Groetjes uit de VS! -- Heeft u laatst nog met KLM gevlogen?
 
PSA727
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RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Sun May 14, 2006 8:54 am

I just hope they don't do this to the IAD-AMS route. I'm so glad
that KL is back on this service.
I used to love flying the KL 747-combis in the mid-90's, mainly because
the front section of the cabin was Y seating not F/J like most carriers.
Then NW came in with their DC-10s in '95 and took away my beloved
Bluebirds.
fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
 
runway23
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RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Sun May 14, 2006 8:59 am

Any news on when LGW-MSP will see an upgrade from DC10 to A330?
 
Checo77
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RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Sun May 14, 2006 9:06 am

I am flying KLM this June EWR-AMS and I am really starting to get worried I will not fly the A332. KLM swaps the equipment very frequently, and I really want to fly their A332, which should also be my first Airbus transatlantic experience!!
Its sad to see NWA taking over routes. Thanks God I am not flying this route after November.
Just a little question: Are NWA´s PTV´s in their A332 AVOD or normal?
Thanks,
Adam
Czech Boeing lover living in Lima
 
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jetjack74
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RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Sun May 14, 2006 9:34 am

Quoting Runway23 (Reply 7):
Any news on when LGW-MSP will see an upgrade from DC10 to A330?



Quoting Redtailmsp (Thread starter):
MSP-LGW - not sure when this will become A330, but must be right around the same timeframe.
Made from jets!
 
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4everRC
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RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Sun May 14, 2006 9:46 am

Quoting DesertFlyer (Reply 3):
Goodbye to the D10, since it looks like almost all of NW's operation of them is into AMS.

Once all of these A330s are in place, does anyone know what routes WILL still be on a DC10?
Nobody served our republic like Republic!
 
dutchjet
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RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Sun May 14, 2006 9:51 am

Quoting 4everRC (Reply 10):

Once all of these A330s are in place, does anyone know what routes WILL still be on a DC10?

After all European services out of Detroit, and then MSP are operated with the A330 - think Hawaii........

Certain services to Hawaii will continue to see DC10 service - think MSP-HNL, DTW-HNL (seasonal?) and SEA-HNL (sometimes with the DC10, other times operated with the 753).

Which types operate the longer haul services to Hawaii depends on aircraft allocation issues, thoughout the entire NW route system.
 
hawaijahaz
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RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Sun May 14, 2006 9:57 am

Quoting Checo77 (Reply 8):
Are NWA´s PTV´s in their A332 AVOD or normal?

I believe that the PTVs are AVOD. I flew a A332 from NRT to SIN last year and was very impressed with the aircraft.

Priyanshu
 
runway23
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RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Sun May 14, 2006 10:09 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 9):
Quoting Runway23 (Reply 7):
Any news on when LGW-MSP will see an upgrade from DC10 to A330?



Quoting Redtailmsp (Thread starter):
MSP-LGW - not sure when this will become A330, but must be right around the same timeframe.

I did see that before. However all the GDS' have D10 going well into next year. I thought somebody working at NW might have more information.
 
AlitaliaMD11
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RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Sun May 14, 2006 10:39 am

Quoting Checo77 (Reply 8):
Just a little question: Are NWA´s PTV´s in their A332 AVOD or normal?

They're AVOD.
No Vueling No Party
 
NWBOS
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RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Sun May 14, 2006 10:59 am

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me why NW would use a 332 on AMS-BOM. This is one of the highest yielding routes in the system. I would think they would want something with more capacity unless there is a serious fleet shortage projected for that time.

[Edited 2006-05-14 04:00:40]
 
AA777
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RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Sun May 14, 2006 11:01 am

How is NW doing on MEM-AMS? I was in schipol in December and I noticed an A333 arrive from MEM. I noticed that the flight was packed too.... I feel like there must be very very little O&D traffic between the two; it must mostly be transit pax?

-AA777
 
neilalp
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RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Sun May 14, 2006 11:13 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 11):
DTW-HNL (seasonal?)

We didn't see that one this year... I'm not sure if it'll come back. I believe it was last in Spring 2004 they were all the time seasonal. You would think there was market, but I guess not enough.
 
redtailmsp
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RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Sun May 14, 2006 11:20 am

As Dutchjet says in reply number 4, the allocation of 332s is interesting. MEM makes sense, but BOM could certainly do with the added passenger and cargo capabilities of the -300, especially as the European winter months are the busiest for travel to India. By using 332s to MEM/BOM, NWA will need a 4 aircraft rotation of 332s to Europe this winter. That should put further expansion of 332s in Asia on the back burner for now.

As regards the DC10, it looks like it may be down to a MSP-HNL-KIX-HNL-MSP rotation by early 2007. Current HNL-NRT service of 1 744 and one DC10 changes to 2 744s in the near future. There is an issue with the INS system of the DC10 which will hasten its demise into Europe - the INS system cannot be upgraded to match forthcoming upgrades in navigational requirements in Eurocontrol. It is the same INS system in the DC10 and 747-200s, so I presume there will be no more NWA 747 freighters charters into Europe either.
 
hjulicher
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RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Sun May 14, 2006 8:56 pm

I think that NW's transatlantic operations are on par with that of european carriers flying over the atlantic, especially when operated with their new A330's. So even though it's exciting to fly on a new KLM A330, I don't think the service will differ so much between the two. In fact, I was pretty shocked to see how the service aboard KLM europe has gone down. They used to be the best in my opinion. What airline served belgium waffles in economy other than KLM?
LH 442
 
raggi
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RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Sun May 14, 2006 9:50 pm

Having been on both NW and KL A330s across the Atlantic, I would definitely prefer KL, but the NW bus was pretty nice too.

What about KL`s AMS-EWR flight with the 772? Is that still "on" ?

raggi
Stick & Rudder
 
AlitaliaMD11
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RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Sun May 14, 2006 10:24 pm

Quoting Raggi (Reply 20):
What about KL`s AMS-EWR flight with the 772? Is that still "on" ?


I thought I had heard somewhere that KL660 was an extra capacity flight for the summer but it appears on the KLM timetable to be flying into November and on.

[Edited 2006-05-14 15:26:11]
No Vueling No Party
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Sun May 14, 2006 10:42 pm

A lot of capacity from NYC to AMS.....

CO EWR-AMS ( 2 daily, 1 767-400, 1 757)* seasonal, the 757 is dropped in the winter.

KL JFK-AMS (one 744, one 772)

KL/NW EWR-AMS (A332, A333)

DL JFK-AMS (1 763)

SQ JFK-AMS (1 744)
 
dutchjet
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Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Sun May 14, 2006 11:18 pm

Quoting AA777 (Reply 16):
How is NW doing on MEM-AMS? I was in schipol in December and I noticed an A333 arrive from MEM. I noticed that the flight was packed too.... I feel like there must be very very little O&D traffic between the two; it must mostly be transit pax?

-AA777

MEM-AMS has built up into a successful route - much to everyone's surprise; KL/NW has stuck with the route for years, flying it with M11s, 763s, DC10s and now A330s.......KL/NW has built the flight into a solid connection between the southeast and Europe, and the flight is surprising popular with Dutch/European travellers going to the region and even a good number of pax that are Florida bound. Cargo lift on the route is also very strong.

Quoting ContinentalEWR (Reply 22):
A lot of capacity from NYC to AMS.....

CO EWR-AMS ( 2 daily, 1 767-400, 1 757)* seasonal, the 757 is dropped in the winter.

KL JFK-AMS (one 744, one 772)

KL/NW EWR-AMS (A332, A333)

DL JFK-AMS (1 763)

SQ JFK-AMS (1 744)

As you probably know, this is all about hubs.........CO has a major hub at EWR, KL is based at AMS and is a favorite connection airport for pax - especially Americans, due to good shopping, nice/user friendly facilities, and the fact that everyone speaks English, JFK is DL's European gateway....and that DL,CO,NW and KL all just happen to be SkyTeam members. O&D traffic between NYC and AMS is good......but yeilds are mediocre and cannot compare with yeilds on flights between NYC and other EUropean capitals such as London, Paris or Frankfurt.

SQ served EWR-AMS (not JFK-AMS) for several years with 744 service 3 or 4 times per week - the flight continued to SIN; that service was dropped when the nonstop EWR-SIN flight was launched.......SIN did not make money on the EWR-AMS segment, yeilds were terrible, lots of bargain fares - with a flight that operated only a 3 or 4 times per week, SQ had trouble attracting biz pax (although the timing of the flight was terrific, allowing a day trip out of AMS to JFK). SQ serves the JFK-FRA-SIN route on a daily basis.
 
AlitaliaMD11
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Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:19 am

RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Sun May 14, 2006 11:19 pm

Quoting ContinentalEWR (Reply 22):
A lot of capacity from NYC to AMS.....

CO EWR-AMS ( 2 daily, 1 767-400, 1 757)* seasonal, the 757 is dropped in the winter.

KL JFK-AMS (one 744, one 772)

KL/NW EWR-AMS (A332, A333)

DL JFK-AMS (1 763)

SQ JFK-AMS (1 744)

For the summer both JFK flights will be on the 777-200. Singapore Airlines does not fly to AMS from JFK, they fly to FRA.
No Vueling No Party
 
LFutia
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RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Mon May 15, 2006 7:23 am

if NW is taking over the EWR, route then would someone like to explain this? I found this on Amadeus for the first week of March.

Northwest Airlines
NW 36
Newark Int'l (EWR), New York, New Jersey, USA
Terminal B 16:40

Schiphol (AMS), Amsterdam, Netherlands 06:00+1 day(s)
Non-stop
333 7h20min Daily
_____________________
KLM Royal Dutch Airlines
KL 658
Newark Int'l (EWR), New York, New Jersey, USA
Terminal B 16:35

Schiphol (AMS), Amsterdam, Netherlands 06:00+1 day(s)
Non-stop
EQV 7h25min Daily

Leo
Leo/ORD -- Groetjes uit de VS! -- Heeft u laatst nog met KLM gevlogen?
 
nwa757boy
Posts: 423
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RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Mon May 15, 2006 7:49 am

Quoting AA777 (Reply 16):
How is NW doing on MEM-AMS? I was in schipol in December and I noticed an A333 arrive from MEM. I noticed that the flight was packed too.... I feel like there must be very very little O&D traffic between the two; it must mostly be transit pax?

I flew that route this past February and March and both full. From what I heard many were connecting to southern destinations or overflow from the DTW-AMS and MSP-AMS
 
AlitaliaMD11
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Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:19 am

RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Mon May 15, 2006 9:09 am

Quoting Lfutia (Reply 25):
if NW is taking over the EWR, route then would someone like to explain this? I found this on Amadeus for the first week of March.

I was checking Amadeus and noticed the same thing, it appears that Northwest and KLM are both flying daily flights to EWR leaving within 5 minutes of each other. Computer error?

[Edited 2006-05-15 02:09:47]
No Vueling No Party
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Mon May 15, 2006 9:25 am

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 27):

I was checking Amadeus and noticed the same thing, it appears that Northwest and KLM are both flying daily flights to EWR leaving within 5 minutes of each other. Computer error?

[Edited 2006-05-15 02:09:47]

Likely, the new flight has been loaded but the original (now cancelled) flight still remains in the system........this will be cleaned up and the codeshare flights must be added. Could be that NW has updated its system and KL has not gotten that far yet.
 
nwab787techops
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 7:57 am

RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Fri May 19, 2006 3:25 am

Quoting Lfutia (Reply 25):
if NW is taking over the EWR, route then would someone like to explain this? I found this on Amadeus for the first week of March.

Northwest Airlines
NW 36
Newark Int'l (EWR), New York, New Jersey, USA
Terminal B 16:40

Schiphol (AMS), Amsterdam, Netherlands 06:00+1 day(s)
Non-stop
333 7h20min Daily
_____________________
KLM Royal Dutch Airlines
KL 658
Newark Int'l (EWR), New York, New Jersey, USA
Terminal B 16:35

Schiphol (AMS), Amsterdam, Netherlands 06:00+1 day(s)
Non-stop
EQV 7h25min Daily

Leo

Looks like NWA EWR-AMS comes back 26NOV-till 24mar07
 
gunsontheroof
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Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:30 am

RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Fri May 19, 2006 6:34 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 4):
I thought that A332s were not going to do transatlantic runs, expect for SEA-AMS.

SEA-AMS is only an A332 during the winter. During the summer it upgrades to an A333, although according to FlightAware, the flight has been operated by A333s and even a DC-10 in recent weeks.
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4033
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Fri May 19, 2006 12:47 pm

Quoting Raggi (Reply 20):
What about KL`s AMS-EWR flight with the 772? Is that still "on" ?

KL659/660 is a summer-only addition. The flight is operating twice weekly only on days 4 and 7, as opposed to the earlier announced 3 weekly frequencies. KLM had to scale down on its plans to protect the stability of the B772 operation. The T7 has the highest average daily utilization rate of all longhaul aircraft in the KLM fleet up to the point where the operation was about to become very susceptible to instability. KL659/660 will not be operated next winter, but looking at the first results of the flight, we might see it back with reinforced frequencies next winter.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 4):

AMS-BOM on the A332 - thats surprising, a rather "small" airplane for a route such as this. KL and NW work together on the India routes, and probably could fill up a 744 on a daily basis (a good perecentage of India-Mumbai/Dehli flights are flown with the 744 to keep up with demand.)



Quoting NWBOS (Reply 15):
It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me why NW would use a 332 on AMS-BOM. This is one of the highest yielding routes in the system. I would think they would want something with more capacity unless there is a serious fleet shortage projected for that time.

At one point a couple of years ago, Northwest actually deployed a B744 on the BOM route. I think that the downscaling of capacity on the AMS-BOM sector has a lot to do with the recent sharp increase in the Europe-India frequencies by airlines all over Europe, because of the relaxed policies of the Indian Government. Before long the Europe-India market might be suffering from severe overcapacity and it is likely that Northwest is trying to protect the yields by restraining available capacity rather than dumping excess capacity on the market.
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4033
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Fri May 19, 2006 2:59 pm

As to the transfer of the KL657/658 AMS-EWR-AMS flight to Northwest for the winter, there are 2 main reasons:

* the upgrade of the MD11 and B744/B74E cabin interiors will provoke a decreased utilization of those fleets, which might create a temporary aircraft shortage at KLM ;

* KLM is looking to accelerate the phasing out of the remaining 5 B763ER frames. As a result of the NW take over of the AMS-EWR route, the AMS-EBB, AMS-ABV-KAN and AMS-DMM-DOH routes will see the introduction of the A332 earlier than planned. Both AMS-ATL and AMS-YVR were already planned for A332 operations next winter ;

In related news, KLM plans to operate reduced frequencies on its China routes during the quietest period of the winter season (late January to early March), once again to compensate for the decreased utilization of the MD11 and B744/B74E fleets. As such, the following frequency reductions will be made for a period of about 6 weeks:

KL891/892 AMS CTU AMS to operate once weekly only iso twice weekly
KL895/896 AMS PVG AMS to operate 4 times weekly iso daily
KL897/898 AMS PEK AMS to operate 4 times weekly iso daily
 
hjulicher
Posts: 649
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:26 pm

RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Fri May 19, 2006 6:00 pm

It just seems to me that KLM asked NW to take over the route, but isn't that a lot to ask from NW especially in their current state of operation? Before, NW received half of the revenue on that sector, but KLM paid for operating expenses, now NW has to pay for the operating expenses for the flight. Anyways, if KLM wants to rid itself of the 767's I'm sure NWA also wants to rid itself of it's DC10's. So, for me it doesn't make too much sense in this situation, especially if KLM has the aircraft in the winter, but would rather upgrade interiors than fly the route, therefore having NW pick up the tab.
LH 442
 
Jano
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RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Fri May 19, 2006 8:05 pm

Quoting Hjulicher (Reply 33):
It just seems to me that KLM asked NW to take over the route, but isn't that a lot to ask from NW especially in their current state of operation? Before, NW received half of the revenue on that sector, but KLM paid for operating expenses, now NW has to pay for the operating expenses for the flight. Anyways, if KLM wants to rid itself of the 767's I'm sure NWA also wants to rid itself of it's DC10's. So, for me it doesn't make too much sense in this situation, especially if KLM has the aircraft in the winter, but would rather upgrade interiors than fly the route, therefore having NW pick up the tab.

KL and NW have Joint Venture for TATL ops. So they so share both revenues and expenses.
The Widget Air Line :)
 
redtailmsp
Posts: 199
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 1:05 am

RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Sat May 20, 2006 12:09 am

HB-IWC, thanks for the explanation why KLM are transfering AMS-EWR to NWA for the winter - makes a lot of sense. As several of us have mentioned in this thread, all USA-AMS flights are a joint venture between NWA/KLM so they share the expenses and revenues, so this is a win-win for both carriers. Yes, NWA did operate a 744 on AMS-BOM, and they carried huge freight loads, but this stopped with NWA moving all 744 operations to the Orient. Yes, the Europe-India market (and USA-India market) are subject to open skies and a lot more competition, with a resultant dilution of yields - but the 332 is a curious choice versus the 333, but I am sure the Yield Management people know what they are doing.
 
lamedianaranja
Posts: 1195
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:21 am

RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Sat May 20, 2006 1:31 am

Quoting Redtailmsp (Reply 2):
Examples have been MSP-AMS, DTW-AMS, MEM-AMS, EWR-AMS, JFK-AMS.

and don't forget MIA-AMS, now flown by neither airline, just by MP.

Quoting Hjulicher (Reply 33):
It just seems to me that KLM asked NW to take over the route, but isn't that a lot to ask from NW especially in their current state of operation?

Maybe they'll share profits and costs this time and if it's a profitable route it might be a way of helping NW. NW wouldn't do it if they knew it makes them lose more money, right?
I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4033
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Sat May 20, 2006 3:54 am

Quoting Redtailmsp (Reply 35):
Yes, the Europe-India market (and USA-India market) are subject to open skies and a lot more competition, with a resultant dilution of yields - but the 332 is a curious choice versus the 333, but I am sure the Yield Management people know what they are doing.

I think the dilution of yields on India routes cannot be underestimated. Over the past couple of years the number of available flights between Europe and India has skyrocketed. In the case of NW and partners, let's also not forget that NW abandoned the planned AMS-BLR route, not only because of the bankruptcy procedures and the reduced fleet, but also because NW could apparently not make the numbers meet on the route.

Business class seats between Europe and India or the other way around are now to be had for as little as USD2,000. One will be hard pressed to find a similar fare for a transatlantic sector of equal stage length.

KL, in the mean time, has at least 3 unused Amsterdam-India frequencies laying about. The Holland-India bilateral was revised to increase the number of frequencies to 14 weekly each side just about a year ago, but KLM has only used this opportunity to open 4 new frequencies to HYD, and places its KL code on the NW-operated BOM flights.

The dilution of yields is likely even more dramatic on the UK-India sectors, where the number of flights has mushroomed to a multiple of what is was just 2 years ago to the extent that less money is made with more flights. Not really an optimal use of scarce available resources.

As such, I am not surprised at all about the deployment of the A332 on the AMS-BOM route. NW yields management has likely figured out that the larger A333 can be deployed elswhere in the network with a more optimal return on the bottom line, while the smaller A332 will prevent the dumping of excess capacity at unreasonable fares.
 
blrBird
Posts: 455
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 6:39 am

RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Mon May 22, 2006 5:38 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 37):
let's also not forget that NW abandoned the planned AMS-BLR route, not only because of the bankruptcy procedures and the reduced fleet, but also because NW could apparently not make the numbers meet on the route.

HB-IWC,
I am still confused as to how AF and BA are seem to be making good run on EU-BLR route, BA upped it freq to 6x weekly (from 5x) and AF is going to go daily (from 5x) from this winter. Both these carriers started operations about the same time NW was supposed to start AMS-BLR.

Did NW think they could not compete with these carriers on this route?
from star dust....
 
nwab787techops
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 7:57 am

RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Mon May 22, 2006 8:47 pm

Quoting BlrBird (Reply 38):
Did NW think they could not compete with these carriers on this route?

Maybe next year when they get the B757-200 (5600) winglets on and start flying to EU citys, that will free up A330s for AMS-BLR if the B757-200 with winglets can't do it it's self.
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4033
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Tue May 23, 2006 2:57 am

The cancellation of the NW AMS-BLR service seems to be a case of the airline's trying to optimize the use of its available resources. The opening of the BLR was sure to incur some losses on the companies for the first coupe of seasons, and with the overall dilution of yields on the Europe-India sectors, the company probably found more optimal use of the available resources.
 
redtailmsp
Posts: 199
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 1:05 am

RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Tue May 23, 2006 3:24 am

The AMS-BLR service was due to start right around the time NWA declared bankruptcy. Advanced bookings were NOT strong at all, as well as B-A and Air France also starting service almost simultaneously with NWA. With suddenly four carriers offering nonstop BLR-Europe flights versus just one (Lufthansa) plus of course Air India, there was going to be a prolonged period of overcapacity and of building up the route - which NWA just couldn't afford to do at that moment in time. I think we will see NWA revisit this service within the next couple of years as and when they are in a far healthier financial situation (and by which time the new BLR terminal opens).
 
KLMNW
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 4:05 am

RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Tue May 23, 2006 3:52 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 37):
I think the dilution of yields on India routes cannot be underestimated.

Well i think NW can't complain about their NW42 flight (AMS-BOM) Wink. All the times that i profile that flight it's overbooked !

Thomas
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4033
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: NWA Taking Over EWR-AMS Again

Tue May 23, 2006 12:09 pm

Quoting KLMNW (Reply 42):
Well i think NW can't complain about their NW42 flight (AMS-BOM) . All the times that i profile that flight it's overbooked !

SUre enough they are always full. The real question however is what kinds of fares are those passengers paying. While I am not saying that NW is not making money on the AMS-BOM runs, it is a sure thing that yields have dropped over the past couple of years.

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