itsjustme
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Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 5:51 am

Time for a little rant, bear with me. I just returned from a flight on Continental Airlines (sorry, I'm just a regular schmoe and I don't know the codes for the different airlines) from IAH to LAX. As is my usual practice, I arrived early at IAH in hopes of scoring an exit row seat (I'm an LEO but if I'm not carrying a firearm, I just go through the usual procedure). I do this because I'm confident in my ability to help with the evacuation if necessary and the additional leg room is nice. My early arrival paid off and I was able to change my assignment to exit row. Unlike most others who end up in the exit row, I take the added responsibility seriously and, believe it or not, I actually read the card that outlines the emergency procedures for the particular type of aircraft I am on. They're typically the same except for what to do with the door once it's been removed (by the way, why the different procedures? Chuck the door outside or lay it on the seat). On past flights, an FA has taken the time to separately address those of us in the exit row either prior to or after he/she has done the usual pre-flight safety instructions. That wasn't the case on this flight. I was on a 757 and of the 6 passengers in my row, three of them were women who were easily in their late 60's or early 70's and one was a man who was a good 75 pounds over weight. Also, when the FA's came through with the beverage cart, when one of the women was asked what she'd like to drink, she didn't speak English. The FA had to hold up each item until she pointed to the one she wanted. Now, I could swear I was on a Southwest flight a couple of years ago and not only did the FA on that flight go over the instructions with our row but we had to make eye contact with her and give a verbal "yes" when asked if we were able to fulfill the responsibilities of sitting in the exit row. I remember one male passenger just nodded but she said words to the effect, "I need a verbal yes so I know you understand English". Was she overstepping the guidelines or has something changed?

At the end my IAH-LAX flight, as we were landing at LAX, the FA who had spoken to the non-English speaking woman happened to be seated directly in front of me, facing me. I motioned him to lean forward and told him I thought it was a requirement that those sitting in exit row had to speak the language the carrier uses (which is the actual verbiage on the procedure card). He said no, adding, "We've talked about this in our meetings but as long as they are able to understand hand movements, that's good enough". I just shook my head and he said something like, "I know..." but then stopped, I assume, because he didn't want to say anything non-pc.
So, my point here is are the airlines merely complying with some FAA requirement that a body, regardless if it's an able body, fill the seats in exit row without caring if the person is truly able to assist in the event of an emergency? I realize that during their pre-flight instructions to the passengers, when going over the safety procedures the FA says something like "If you're in an exit row seat and are not able to.....see a flight attendant for a different seating assignment" but I have never seen anyone who, like the non-English speaking senior citizen or the obese man who would obviously be of little if any use in assisting passengers in an emergency, ask an attendant for a different seat. It's my not intent to bash senior citizens or those who have weight issues but why do the airlines (and the FAA?) go through the motions of taking exit row seating seriously if, in the end, pretty much anyone with a pulse is allowed to occupy those seats?
 
Bobster2
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 6:23 am

I had an exit row window seat on TWA and the guy in the aisle seat was drunk, a loud, happy, obnoxious, drunk. It actually didn't bother me until the beverage service when the F/A served him two alcoholic drinks. The F/A had to know he was drunk, he was the most obvious drunk I've ever seen in my life. It was only a 45 minute flight. As I was getting off I told the captain that the F/A served alcohol to a drunk in the exit row. He just looked at with at me with a blank expression, as if he didn't care. Of course, I knew he wouldn't comment in public, but I hoped he would do something in private. Sure enough, as I was waiting at the baggage carousel, the F/A came running up to me and yelled at me for speaking to the captain. I was happy about that because it meant the captain took my complaint seriously.
"I tell you this, no eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn." Jim Morrison
 
levg79
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 6:30 am

Quoting Itsjustme (Thread starter):
I just returned from a flight on Continental Airlines (sorry, I'm just a regular schmoe and I don't know the codes for the different airlines) from IAH to LAX.

It's interesting, but I'd assume someone with over 600 posts on this website and someone who knows the codes for IAH and LAX would have no problems remembering that the code CO.

In regards to the topic, I'm not sure what the FAA says about it, but if a person can understand hand signs as your F/A pointed out, I don't think that anyone should be descriminated against if they don't speak the language. However I might be wrong.

Leo.
A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
 
kazzie
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 6:36 am

When Assigning exit row seats you have to bear the passengers conditions in mind...

For example:

PAX That are/ Have, May not sit in exit rows:

Traveling with infants
under 14
Back problems
Leg problems
Arm problems
Blind
Death
Tired
Nervous flyer's
suffer from Claustrophobia....

Upon check-in, if you requires a seat the following should be asked to the PAX:

"Are you Fit and Able bodied? Any back, Arm or Knee Problems?, Are you able to react in an Emergency?" And then we hand them a card with the above conditions on, The PAX have to sign to say they are fit and do not suffer from any of the above....

The Agent at check-in May refuse the Passenger this seat if they feel they do not fit the requirements.


Either way though, All exit row seats Must be filled, so if we only have 50 passengers or so left to check in that's when the agents start offering without the passenger asking, but this is only if there is a seat Avil.

Hope this helps!
Bazinga punk.
 
XXXX10
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 6:52 am

Quoting Kazzie (Reply 3):
When Assigning exit row seats you have to bear the passengers conditions in mind...

For example:

PAX That are/ Have, May not sit in exit rows:

Traveling with infants
under 14
Back problems
Leg problems
Arm problems
Blind
Death
Tired
Nervous flyer's
suffer from Claustrophobia....

Do you get many dead passengers asking for exit row seats?
 
kazzie
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 6:55 am

Quoting XXXX10 (Reply 4):
Do you get many dead passengers asking for exit row seats?

Haha!

Sorry you'll have to excuse my spelling this evening.... quite tired!

I mean as in hearing problems  Smile

Hope thats cleared up.
Bazinga punk.
 
itsjustme
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 6:59 am

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 2):
It's interesting, but I'd assume someone with over 600 posts on this website and someone who knows the codes for IAH and LAX would have no problems remembering that the code CO.



Quoting Levg79 (Reply 2):

In regards to the topic, I'm not sure what the FAA says about it, but if a person can understand hand signs as your F/A pointed out, I don't think that anyone should be descriminated against if they don't speak the language. However I might be wrong.

OK, first of all, my post was directed to those who are in the business and are qualified to answer my questions. Responding with, "I don't think...and "However, I might be wrong", proves that you are neither. I wasn't asking for your opinion. Pointing out that I have "over 600 posts" and that should somehow, in your narrow mind, translate to me being able to know that CO is the code for Continental Airlines was unnecessary. If you don't have anything constructive to say and do not have the knowledge and/or training to answer the questions posted, then please do not respond.

As for your accusation that I was"descriminating" against someone for not speaking the language, that's a stretch, to say the least. This wasn't just someone seated on the plane who didn't speak or understand English. This was a person sitting in a designated area where additional (serious) responsibilites are potentially necessary. In the event of a fire on the aircraft with smoke present, her being able to understand hand signs wouldn't be of much help, would it?
 
Cadet57
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 6:59 am

Quoting Kazzie (Reply 3):
Death

Lets hope they are not sitting in an exit row, might be a bumpy ride  Wink I assume you ment deaf.
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
kazzie
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 7:01 am

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 7):

Lets hope they are not sitting in an exit row, might be a bumpy ride Wink I assume you ment deaf.

yeh yeh

haha I need to get a dictionary  Smile
Bazinga punk.
 
WarmNuts
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 7:04 am

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 2):
In regards to the topic, I'm not sure what the FAA says about it, but if a person can understand hand signs as your F/A pointed out, I don't think that anyone should be descriminated against if they don't speak the language. However I might be wrong.

IMO, it's not an issue of discrimination... it's an issue of minimal risk mitigation. In an emergency, it is my understanding we (the pax) are to follow -- verbatim -- the instructions as delivered by the F/A's.

If a passenger who is seated at or adjacent to an emergency exit cannot understand the instructions as delivered by the respective carrier's F/A's, then everybody's safety is put at risk.

Furthermore, according to the thread's author, the emergency procedures card explicitly stated this to be a condition of occupancy for the emergency exit row... this does not seem to be (again, IMHO) an issue of "discrimination," but rather one of policy enforcement -- a policy which exists to mitigate the risk of injury and death in case we pax have to evac the a/c. I too would have been concerned for the same reasons. Similarly, when traveling roach coach, I always select bulkhead or EE row seats (when available), for the leg room, but when seated in an EE row also take the responsibility seriously. Lastly, I think he handled the situation well, as by bringing it to the F/A's attention (and in a non-confrontational, pragmatic manner), the F/A knows that somebody noticed, and many times, that's all that's required...  Smile
 
itsjustme
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 7:04 am

Quoting Kazzie (Reply 3):

Hope this helps!

It did, thank you.

So, am I to understand that the flight attendant on the Southwest flight I was on was overstepping her bounds by asking that male passenger who had first just nodded when asked if he was able and willing...., to reply with a verbal "yes"?
 
itsjustme
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 7:10 am

Quoting WarmNuts (Reply 9):
Furthermore, according to the thread's author, the emergency procedures card explicitly stated this to be a condition of occupancy for the emergency exit row

It did, and that was why, well, one of the reasons anyway, that I made a point to ask the flight attendant if speaking/understanding English was a requirement for those seated in the exit row. The exact verbiage on the emergency procedures card alluded to exit row passengers were required to speak the "language of the carrier".
 
levg79
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 7:14 am

Itsjustme, if you get offended, none was intended.
A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
 
itsjustme
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 7:29 am

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 12):
if you get offended, none was intended.

It wasn't so much that I was offended as shocked that someone would take issue with my not knowing that CO was the code for Continental Airlines. Seemed piddly and irrelevant (pretty much like this banter is, now that I think about it  Smile). I spend very little time on this board. Of my 600+ posts, 99% of them have been on the "non-aviation" board discussing current events. As much as I enjoy flying, I felt this board was for those in the business or a place to post if one had a concern or question about flying or the airline industry. Anyway, no offense taken.
 
deltairlines
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 7:29 am

It's an FAA requirement for them to verbally confirm that they understand the obligations.

I normally fly in the exit rows if I'm stuck in coach (mostly on RJs...only a couple of times on a mainliner in the past few months), and I've always been told that the flight attendant needed a verbal "yes", not a head nod, etc., but a verbal yes after they make sure we're aware we're in the exit row, etc.

Also, here in the states, it's not an FAA requirement to have all exit row seats occupied. On Delta, only elites can reserve (most) exit rows at the time of booking, and many people don't go through the hassle of asking at the airport, meaning that there have been several times I've been the only person in the exit rows on a plane. However, once onboard, I've seen DL F/As boot people from the exit row for being too young, requiring a seatbelt extender, having a sling on, etc. While I don't take the exit rows instruction as seriously as the original poster (I take about 30 annual CRJ segments in exit rows annually, so I do feel comfortable enough with how to operate the exit rows there, and if on a plane I don't know as well, I'll take a quick look at the diagrams on the wall).

Jeff
 
nzrich
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 7:43 am

At our airline the passenger closest to the Exit must be able to speak English ..This is waived only if no one speaks English on board or do not meet the other minimum standards ..
-Must be able bodied
-Must agree to help out in a emergency
-Must be able to lift out the exit
-Must be aged 15 or over
-Must not use a extension seat belt
"Pride of the pacific"
 
GCDEG
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 8:18 am

Quoting Nzrich (Reply 15):
At our airline the passenger closest to the Exit must be able to speak English

Yup same with ours. Speaking for my airline (in the UK not US) as long as the passenger nearest the exit speaks English then it's ok for 1 person in the same row to not understand English. There must be one person minimum per exit who is fit and able bodied. Our procedures do not require a verbal yes from the passenger to confirm they are able to operate the exit however they are told verbally by the crew that they may be required to operate the exit in an emergency and must read the operation card in front of them. As for the seatbelt extension that is a bit of a grey area because if the crew member in charge of overwing exit briefs feels that the passenger requiring an extension belt can operate the exit capably and can fit out of the exit without causing an obstruction then they can be seated there. Bear in mind I'm not talking obese here. You can have someone who's fit but just have a large waist. It is a very rare occasion and have never had to give someone at the exit row an extension belt. Again it's a judgment call by the crew member on the day whether that particular person can operate the exit and fit out it. There's nothing in our manual concerning not allocating people with extension belts at the overwings just obese passengers.

If i'm in charge of briefing overwing exit passengers to make sure that they speak English I simply chat to them as they're placing their bags up to make sure they understand English.

Quoting Kazzie (Reply 3):
PAX That are/ Have, May not sit in exit rows:

To clarify who can and can't sit at overwing exits some of you may know the acronym used to help you remember the list namely - CODPIES

C - Children
O - Obese passengers
D - Deportees and Disabled (ie - blind, deaf handicapped etc)
P - Pregnant and prisoners
I - Infants on laps
E - Elderly passengers
S - Sick Passengers

Quoting Itsjustme (Thread starter):
I take the added responsibility seriously and, believe it or not, I actually read the card that outlines the emergency procedures for the particular type of aircraft I am on

Itsjustme I'm so glad there are people out there like you who do take operating exit doors seriously and IMHO I don't think the obese passenger should have been allocated the exit row at all if he was 75 pounds overweight but can't comment on the non English speaking passenger as I don't know if there was an English speaking passenger next to her.

Nick
The best thing invented - Winglets!
 
corey07850
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 8:29 am

Quoting Itsjustme (Thread starter):
(I'm an LEO but if I'm not carrying a firearm, I just go through the usual procedure). I do this because I'm confident in my ability to help with the evacuation if necessary and the additional leg room is nice.

Just curious, what's an LEO?
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 8:31 am

Quoting GCDEG (Reply 16):
To clarify who can and can't sit at overwing exits some of you may know the acronym used to help you remember the list namely - CODPIES

C - Children
O - Obese passengers
D - Deportees and Disabled (ie - blind, deaf handicapped etc)
P - Pregnant and prisoners
I - Infants on laps
E - Elderly passengers
S - Sick Passengers

That is a good one. I will be keep that one. (mind you, give you credit)

I always give a quick look to see who is sitting there. I am a pretty good gauge of "eyeing" someone up to see if they would indeed be fit/able/want to sit there.

To Itsjustme, please, by all means if you feel like we may overlooked something or feel that the people sitting there don't look/seem able to/willing to help out in an emergency, let one of us know. At least let the FSC (Flight Service Coordinator on our domestic flights/ISM (International Service Manager on our intertnational flights) know how you feel. I work for Continental and would appreciate someone telling me their concerns.
You can't cure stupid
 
roseflyer
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 8:54 am

Quoting Itsjustme (Thread starter):
Now, I could swear I was on a Southwest flight a couple of years ago and not only did the FA on that flight go over the instructions with our row but we had to make eye contact with her and give a verbal "yes" when asked if we were able to fulfill the responsibilities of sitting in the exit row. I remember one male passenger just nodded but she said words to the effect, "I need a verbal yes so I know you understand English". Was she overstepping the guidelines or has something changed?

I think the technical requirement is a verbal response. So no the flight attendant was not overstepping their bounds on the Southwest flight. Some flight attendants seem a bit apathetic to the rules, but I have sat in the emergency exit rows plenty of times, and people always want to nod their head, but the I have heard plenty of flight attendants point out that they need a verbal confirmation. It makes sense. If someone is in the exit row and doesn't know what's going on, and no one can tell them, then it is a problem. That is a safety hazard. I think the Continental flight attendant was in the wrong by not requiring the exit row passengers to acknowledge with a verbal confirmation. There are reasons behind all regulations (even though some of the reasons aren't very good).

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 6):
As for your accusation that I was"descriminating" against someone for not speaking the language, that's a stretch, to say the least.

It is ok to discriminate in some situations. I know there are some people out there that get completely bent out of shape when people discriminate, but when it is a case of safety, then it is ok to discriminate based on language. Now it is not ok based on race, but if someone does not understand English and are flying a US registered airplane, then they should not sit in the exit row.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 9:02 am

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 17):
Just curious, what's an LEO?

Law Enforcement Officer
You can't cure stupid
 
itsjustme
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 9:12 am

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 17):
Just curious, what's an LEO?

LEO = Law Enforcement Officer
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 9:30 am

The flight attendants are trained to do it just as the Southwest FA you described did. I've heard the new US Airways no longer does exit briefings, but when I was trained at PSA we were taught to do them, so I'm not sure what is going on there.

However whether or not the FA's actually do it is really up to them. They run a risk every time they don't do something exactly by-the-book because they never know if there is a check FA or FAA inspector onboard. Plus it's just in everyone's best interest to make sure your passengers know how to operate their exits.
Dear moderators: No.
 
corey07850
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 9:35 am

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 20):



Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 21):

Gotcha... I was thinking it had something to do with aviation
 
itsjustme
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 9:38 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 19):
I think the Continental flight attendant was in the wrong by not requiring the exit row passengers to acknowledge with a verbal confirmation. There are reasons behind all regulations (even though some of the reasons aren't very good).

Actually, on this flight, the exit row passengers sitting in my area were never addressed, individually or as a group, by a flight attendant. Just like the rest of the passengers, we were told via an overhead announcement to watch the safety video about to be played on the monitors and we (all passengers) were encouraged to familiarize ourselves with the informational material that outlined safety procedures specific to the aircraft we were on. Other than that, there wasn't any exclusive interaction by any of the flight attendants and those of us sitting in my exit row.

I realize that, just as in any other profession, flight attendants can become complacent when doing the same job day in and day out and it was not my intent to fault the flight attendants on my flight. If interaction with exit row passengers is an industry requirement, I am sure it was an oversight. I just thought it was odd that a non-English speaking person, not to mention one who was obviously incapable of fullfilling the duties that exit row occupants may be asked to perform should an emergency occur, was allowed to occupy an exit row seat.
 
ckfred
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 9:47 am

I remember flying on a UA 727-200 from ATL to ORD during the Summer Olympics. I heard one gate agent say to the other that he had 3 men traveling on Chinese passports assigned to the exit row, and it appeared that they only spoke Manderin (sp?) and almost no English.

The other agent said not to bother moving them. The flight was late and full, and trying to move them would simply cause the plane to lose its slot for ORD.

That was kind of scary.

What was funny was that after landing, we had to go to the penalty box, because the plane at our gate hadn't pushed back. So, we parked off 9L-27R, with I-190 off the starboard side, and the three guys get up and start opening the overhead bins.

You should have seen how fast the F/As moved to get the bins closed and the guys back in their seats.
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 10:04 am

On KL, it's the same - flying AMS-LIS a woman at the overwing exit row didn't speak English, I offered to translate to Portuguese but she didn't understand that either. So she was requested to change seats with someone else.

I'm one of the "Cod Pies" myself, usually I say so at check-in so there's no surprises later. This obviously doesn't work with FR who don't have pre-assigned seating. I recently got a window seat on the last row and was told to move! I was surprised to see that FR consider that last row an exit row (do all airlines consider it that? I always thought it applied to overwing exits only!) but even more surprised that they think that the guy sitting at the window would get to the aft door first, when two pax per row and 1-2 rear galley F/A's would be there first.
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
hiflyer
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 10:38 am

itsjustme...heck you can call it CO or CAL depending on how old you are...grin.

As far as exit row briefing in the US it only applies to overwing as long as flt att's are assigned and seated at all the other doors. In regards to a verbal response and not a head nod...your Southwest flt att's were correct.

I have had flt att's have pax turn off their bose noise canceling headset during exit row briefing to make sure the pax heard and acknowledged.

As far as agents assigning...exit rows, because of their leg room, are being allowed to be preselected by various carrier's frequent travelers and agents probably will not be aware of any problems leaving it to the flt att's. Pax could have a million miles on DAL and chose the seat but until he is seated and the flt att notices that he just broke his leg skiing and in a cast....or the gentleman may be from Korea with a million miles on UA and no english...and the worst is the 30 something million miler female exec 8 months into her first pregnancy with raging hormones....oh yeah!!!
 
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WildcatYXU
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 10:55 am

[quote=Itsjustme,reply=0]and one was a man who was a good 75 pounds over weight.

Dude, don't judge people by their weight. With my 6'1" and 230 pounds I'm overweight too. But my ability to carry some 150 pounds may be useful too. Don't you think?
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zippyjet
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 12:58 pm

Quoting Itsjustme (Thread starter):
They're typically the same except for what to do with the door once it's been removed (by the way, why the different procedures? Chuck the door outside or lay it on the seat).

God forbid an emergency happens there would be more room if one chucks the exit door out into the great wide open. BUT like almost most things in our life it boils down to $$$. Sure, being a company man (FL employee) I like to see expenses minimized but, hell if it is safety, by all means hurl that door as far as you can throw it. Though we in the industry take pride in our planes, you can always replace an airplane part, you can't replace human life!

Quoting Itsjustme (Thread starter):
So, my point here is are the airlines merely complying with some FAA requirement that a body, regardless if it's an able body, fill the seats in exit row without caring if the person is truly able to assist in the event of an emergency?

As a crew member of FL for over four years, I've observed and practiced safe exit row seat assigning. As a matter of fact, my fellow crew members and yours truly have incurred delays due to exit row seat assigning!
Imagine if you will a packed Boeing 717 flight bound for MCO. This packed bird originated in ROC, BOS or DAY. Then came to my gate at BWI. MCO flights have a lot of families with bambinos and plenty of kiddys under 15! And don't forgive plenty of our elders. I love my parents but, I'd be leary of letting them sit in the emergency exit seats. And, with us, I'm not sure of my fellow carriers but, in the row in front of and behind the exit rows, we won't seat families with infants. So, it can come down to creative thinking and being quick on your feet reassigning passengers. I've had to use my charm, wit and humor to move people around. Ever notice that when you really push for people to switch even to roomier exit rows that the more you ask, human nature intervenes and it is like getting that horse to drink that trough of stagnant water you just led it to!
I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
 
hz747300
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 1:10 pm

Quoting Kazzie (Reply 3):
Death

???

I'd say the last approval rests with the flight crew. But the check-in gals should be pretty good judges of character.

[Edited 2006-05-15 06:10:58]
Keep on truckin'...
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 1:18 pm

Quoting Itsjustme (Thread starter):
They're typically the same except for what to do with the door once it's been removed (by the way, why the different procedures? Chuck the door outside or lay it on the seat).

When a U.S. airline gets a new aircraft to its fleet, it must prove to the FAA it can safely evacuate said plane in 90 seconds or less. Included in this is its procedures for getting people out via the window exits. We submitted to the FAA years our procedures for window exits by keeping them in the cabin and laying them on the seats. Other airlines submitted their evacuations plans by chucking the window out.

It is up to the airline to decide which way is best for them, is acceptable by the FAA and can be demonstrated as acceptable by keeping within the guidleines of getting people out in 90 seconds or less.

I hope this clarifies the reason why the differences.

I have been trained to keep the window inside on the seats on aircraft we need to physically remove the window, it has been instilled in me for 20 years, but I assure you anyway you get the exit open and get people out is the correct way.
You can't cure stupid
 
itsjustme
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 2:39 pm

Quoting Zippyjet (Reply 29):



Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 31):

Answered my question about "chucking" or "laying" the removed door perfectly. Thank you.
 
Bridogger6
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 2:53 pm

Quoting We're Nuts (Reply 22):
The flight attendants are trained to do it just as the Southwest FA you described did. I've heard the new US Airways no longer does exit briefings, but when I was trained at PSA we were taught to do them, so I'm not sure what is going on there.

This isn't true... at least on the west side of the new US... gate agents can't close the door until all the exit breifings have been done, it works as a check to make sure the flight attendants actually do it. It also works as a good excuse for when we push a minute or two late, we can blame it on the FA's not doing their exit row briefings on time... haha, only sort of kidding. :-P

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 28):
Dude, don't judge people by their weight. With my 6'1" and 230 pounds I'm overweight too. But my ability to carry some 150 pounds may be useful too. Don't you think?

It's really not just about being able to lift the door. I think that is half of the important part of being able to sit in an exit row. The other, is being able to easily fit through the door and not block it so all other passengers can get out!
 
itsjustme
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 2:57 pm

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 28):
Dude, don't judge people by their weight. With my 6'1" and 230 pounds I'm overweight too. But my ability to carry some 150 pounds may be useful too. Don't you think?

You're preaching to the choir my friend. I work with guys your size (and larger) and when responding to runs where I know there's a strong potential for a physical confrontation (bar fights for example), I always like hearing these officers answer up over the radio when a request for a back up unit or two (or six) is made.
However, with regard to my flight, the gentleman I was referring to was about 5' 5" and I am sure tipped the scales at roughly 225 lbs. As an example of his physical condition, he had to struggle more than what I would say was normal for someone even his size, when executing the simple feat of standing and walking to the lavatory, which was less than 10 steps from his seat.
Again, not bashing the elderly or those folks who have weight issues....just wondering if allowing them to sit in an exit row was the best decision.
 
Propman
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 4:28 pm

Isn't the true exit row scandal that many airlines put a row of seats in the exit row space where obviously there should be none, to enable people to get out quickly through the emergency exit. I presume it's legal (just) and they do it to get extra revenue. I've seen it on a budget airline, but not, I think, on scheduled flights. Anyone know more about this?
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Markhkg
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 6:35 pm

Quoting Zippyjet (Reply 29):
They're typically the same except for what to do with the door once it's been removed (by the way, why the different procedures? Chuck the door outside or lay it on the seat).

Also, just to add:
For some carriers, they believe that it isn't easy to rotate the door and get the pax to throw it out (as far forward as possible), so they have them either place it on the seat, or drop in the next row. The hatches are heavy, so there is some concern that you won't be able to throw them out very far...if they end up too close to the evacuation path outside, it may cause people to trip during the evacuation.

Having said that, most carriers now prefer to have people throw the hatch out of the aircraft, as leaving the hatch on the seat may cause it to fall off the armrests during an evacuation, and possibly block the exit row.

People sitting in an exit row should keep in mind that they could literally be responsible for the lives of their fellow passengers. The Manchester Air Disaster demonstrated that a significant delay in opening an overwing exit can mean the difference between escaping and dying.
Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
 
thegooddoctor
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 6:41 pm

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 2):
In regards to the topic, I'm not sure what the FAA says about it, but if a person can understand hand signs as your F/A pointed out, I don't think that anyone should be descriminated against if they don't speak the language.

I think the important point that has been communicated in several responses to this statment is the fact that this is not inappropriate discrimination. If someone in the exit seat cannot recieve and act on verbally communicated directions in an emergency - they themselves and their fellow passengers are at risk. Take this senario for instance:

A DC-9 (small jet with two tail mounted jet engines) is forced to make an emergency landing due to a fire in the number 2 (pilot's right) engine. The flight crew is aware that the right side window exit should not be used because passengers must exit the aircraft by sliding down the back surface of the wing - in this case, sending them towards the fire. This engine fire may or may not be seen by the passengers in the exit row and those passengers may or may not judge appropriately the level of danger to exiting near this fire. The crew would give instructions that the overwing exit on the right side is not to be used. If the person does not understand the language in which these instructions are given, or they are deaf, they are pretty likely to do what is natural - open the exit door and attempt an exit of the aircraft. While it may have been judged by some that hand signs are adequate, I tend to disagree. Verbal communication is important in an emergency.

Furthermore it might be lifesaving discrimination to move a passenger from an exit seat who is overweight (to the point where physical mobility is limited). The same is true of mothers with lap-children - it is not inappropriate discrimination to move her and her child to a different seat. In these cases it is not only in the interest of all the passengers on board, but also in their best interest, as usually these people will only have the resources to look out for their own safety.
The GoodDoctor
 
Jumpseat70
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 7:28 pm

The FAA has rules regarding exit row seating. No airline can overlook these rules. It's not their choice to change or alter the qualifications. Some are more stringent with their interpretation.

As said earlier, Delta agents, the computer, and the F/A's all repeat the same mantra to ensure that each passenger meets the standard. If they don't, then we trade seats, even at the boarding gate. I don't care how long it takes, I want my ABM's (able bodied men) qualified and briefed before each flight.
"Up, Up and away with TWA"
 
andz
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 8:06 pm

Quoting Zippyjet (Reply 29):
God forbid an emergency happens there would be more room if one chucks the exit door out into the great wide open. BUT like almost most things in our life it boils down to $$$. Sure, being a company man (FL employee) I like to see expenses minimized but, hell if it is safety, by all means hurl that door as far as you can throw it. Though we in the industry take pride in our planes, you can always replace an airplane part, you can't replace human life!

If there is a situation requiring the overwing exits be used, the price of a door will be the least of the airline's problems.

Quoting Nzrich (Reply 15):
At our airline the passenger closest to the Exit must be able to speak English ..This is waived only if no one speaks English on board

What language do you speak then? How do you get the instructions across?

Sorry but I believe that in situations that could affect the safety of all on board, political correctness be damned, if the people at the exit row cannot understand the crew instructions clearly then move them.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
TheSorcerer
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 8:27 pm

Any idea why FR have this "no under 18s in the exit row" policy?
thanks
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FATFlyer
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Mon May 15, 2006 11:47 pm

I'm surprised there has been no specific info about the US posted.

The FAA has regulations regarding exit row seating in 14 CFR 121.585. It spells out the ability to open and remove the exit, assist other passengers, follow oral and hand crew instructions, etc.

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2...v/cfr_2006/janqtr/14cfr121.585.htm
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iairallie
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Tue May 16, 2006 12:57 am

Quoting Itsjustme (Thread starter):
some FAA requirement that a body, regardless if it's an able body, fill the seats in exit row

As it was mentioned before in the US there is no requirement to fill the exit row seats. Many times I've worked a light load flight and the exit rows have all been empty.

For my european counterparts what do you do on a flight with only one passenger? I've worked flights like that before.

Quoting Zippyjet (Reply 29):
God forbid an emergency happens there would be more room if one chucks the exit door out into the great wide open. BUT like almost most things in our life it boils down to $$$. Sure, being a company man (FL employee) I like to see expenses minimized but, hell if it is safety, by all means hurl that door as far as you can throw it.

Setting it across the seats has nothing to do with saving money. AA had proceedures to do it both ways depending on aircraft type. in some cases chucking it could interfere with the slide. Or turn into an obstruction outside.
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WildcatYXU
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Tue May 16, 2006 1:59 am

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 34):
As an example of his physical condition, he had to struggle more than what I would say was normal for someone even his size, when executing the simple feat of standing and walking to the lavatory

OK, i got the point

Quoting Bridogger6 (Reply 33):
is being able to easily fit through the door and not block it so all other passengers can get out!

Well, I'm big and fat but not so big and so fat  Embarrassment
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IAHAAPLATINUM
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Tue May 16, 2006 2:14 am

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 6):
OK, first of all, my post was directed to those who are in the business and are qualified to answer my questions. Responding with, "I don't think...and "However, I might be wrong", proves that you are neither. I wasn't asking for your opinion. Pointing out that I have "over 600 posts" and that should somehow, in your narrow mind, translate to me being able to know that CO is the code for Continental Airlines was unnecessary. If you don't have anything constructive to say and do not have the knowledge and/or training to answer the questions posted, then please do not respond.

Thanks for pointing this out. I'm Executive Platinum with AA, and thus fly more than I sometimes want to, and have been doing this for years. I still don't know all the codes, and probably never will!! Welcome to my respected users list!

As to the topic at hand, I routinely reserve an exit row seat. If I don't get upgraded, the FA, at least on AA, virtually always requires a verbal response that those in the exit row(s) are able and willing to do what's required if the exit doors should be need to be openned.
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Tue May 16, 2006 4:30 am

Quoting Bridogger6 (Reply 33):
This isn't true... at least on the west side of the new US

Okay, well that was something our inflight trainers told us, but they probably had bad information. It's good to know US is still doing briefings. They are a vital part of the pre-departure process.
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WarmNuts
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Tue May 16, 2006 5:27 am

Quoting IAHAAPlatinum (Reply 44):
Thanks for pointing this out. I'm Executive Platinum with AA, and thus fly more than I sometimes want to, and have been doing this for years. I still don't know all the codes, and probably never will!!

True that! As an AA Gold/Platinum member for over a half-decade (and a Skyteam medallion member before that), I am not ashamed whatsoever to admit that I have learned what I have learned with regards to airline codes here at a.net... Of course one becomes familiar with what one flies (for me, AA, BA, CX, & 9W, mainly, and the same applies to the airports through which I transit -- I remember having to look up IAH, for example, because as an AA FF who begins & ends travel in SAN, I transit primarily through DFW or ORD when eastbound), but unless employed directly or indirectly (e.g., a travel agent) in the industry, I sure wouldn't expect someone to be familiar with these codes...  Smile
 
bayareapilot
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Tue May 16, 2006 5:35 am

I was booted out of the exit row on a CA flight once because my Putonghua wasn't up to par.
 
Red Panda
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Tue May 16, 2006 5:38 am

For the airline I am with, emergency row can be assigned to anyone but wheelchair pax, mother with infant, children under 12 or pax with obesity. Language is not a problem as long as they can open the door when in an evacuation situation. We do not expect our pax to perform all evacuation duties because they are not trained to do so. As a matter of fact, many of them do not even comply with our safety regulations like fastening seat belt or going to toilet during turbulence.

By the way, emergency row are usually given to frequent flyers regardless their ability to help in emergency.

Rgds,
R Panda
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Exit Row Seating- What A Joke

Tue May 16, 2006 5:49 am

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 24):
Actually, on this flight, the exit row passengers sitting in my area were never addressed, individually or as a group, by a flight attendant. Just like the rest of the passengers, we were told via an overhead announcement to watch the safety video about to be played on the monitors and we (all passengers) were encouraged to familiarize ourselves with the informational material that outlined safety procedures specific to the aircraft we were on.

I've been on 2 OH flights in the past month (both CR7s, as it happens), sat in exit rows, and have not been addressed by f/as at all except for a drink order.
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