atmx2000
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Boeing Testing 787 Flight Control On AA 772ER

Tue May 16, 2006 8:22 am

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...ght+control+system+aboard+777.html

I didn't think AA had 777s to spare? What would it cost Boeing to lease the aircraft for 10 months?
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
jacobin777
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RE: Boeing Testing 787 Flight Control On AA 772ER

Tue May 16, 2006 10:24 am

Wasn't it $1 million/month? I thought they were returning the plane back to AA soon...
"Up the Irons!"
 
texfly101
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RE: Boeing Testing 787 Flight Control On AA 772ER

Tue May 16, 2006 11:42 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 1):
Wasn't it $1 million/month? I thought they were returning the plane back to AA soon...

I did too. There has been a AA 777 in and out of Paine several times recently and I thought that it was the bird in question.
 
HPAEAA
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RE: Boeing Testing 787 Flight Control On AA 772ER

Tue May 16, 2006 12:10 pm

Hey don't forget AA has orders still for 777 a/c.. they were deffered I think in 2003, perhaps Boeing offered a price break to use a new one before AA takes delivery...
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jacobin777
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RE: Boeing Testing 787 Flight Control On AA 772ER

Tue May 16, 2006 12:41 pm

Quoting Texfly101 (Reply 2):
I did too. There has been a AA 777 in and out of Paine several times recently and I thought that it was the bird in question.



Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 3):
Hey don't forget AA has orders still for 777 a/c.. they were deffered I think in 2003, perhaps Boeing offered a price break to use a new one before AA takes delivery...

there are some other AA A.net posters here who would know much more...if the 777's are deferred, I assume they will be for a while longer...

I just hope they don't end their SJC-NRT route... hissyfit ..
"Up the Irons!"
 
HPAEAA
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RE: Boeing Testing 787 Flight Control On AA 772ER

Tue May 16, 2006 1:03 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 4):
there are some other AA A.net posters here who would know much more...if the 777's are deferred, I assume they will be for a while longer...

Hey I looked it up, they are scheduled to take delivery of 2 772ER in 2006 and 47 738 and 7 772ER in 2013-2016, just thought I'd correct myself
http://www.aa.com/content/images/amrcorp/amrcorp2004ar.pdf
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BigGSFO
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RE: Boeing Testing 787 Flight Control On AA 772ER

Tue May 16, 2006 1:14 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 4):
I just hope they don't end their SJC-NRT route...

Aaahhhhh....! I know.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Boeing Testing 787 Flight Control On AA 772ER

Tue May 16, 2006 2:09 pm

Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 5):

Hey I looked it up, they are scheduled to take delivery of 2 772ER in 2006 and 47 738 and 7 772ER in 2013-2016, just thought I'd correct myself

ahhh..cool.thank you very much for the information HPAEAA........ Smile

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 6):
Aaahhhhh....! I know.

maybe we can petition AA to keep the flight and promise them that we will fly with them on that route (heck, I already am..)
"Up the Irons!"
 
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N328KF
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RE: Boeing Testing 787 Flight Control On AA 772ER

Tue May 16, 2006 2:11 pm

Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 5):
Hey I looked it up, they are scheduled to take delivery of 2 772ER in 2006 and 47 738 and 7 772ER in 2013-2016, just thought I'd correct myself

$5 bucks says those 737-800s never get delivered in that form. Maybe even true for the 777-200ERs.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
jacobin777
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RE: Boeing Testing 787 Flight Control On AA 772ER

Tue May 16, 2006 3:11 pm

Quoting N328KF (Reply 8):

$5 bucks says those 737-800s never get delivered in that form. Maybe even true for the 777-200ERs.

I think we'll see those converted probably to 787's and Y1 planes....regardless..I think its a safe bet AA will probably go Boeing for its next large fleet decision....
"Up the Irons!"
 
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RobK
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RE: Boeing Testing 787 Flight Control On AA 772ER

Tue May 16, 2006 8:38 pm

The AA 777 in question is N780AN and flies as BOE426.

AA are due to take delivery on N768AA on 26 May from PAE. Was due to make its first flight yesterday 15 May but it didn't happen. Expect it to fly today as BOE439.

R
 
thepilot
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RE: Boeing Testing 787 Flight Control On AA 772ER

Wed May 17, 2006 1:25 am

I actually visited this plane down at BFI and talked to the chief test pilot. It was brought from the desert because AA couldn't use it anymore. They have loaded the interior with testing equipment but the economy class is still in there, with PTVs and 2-5-2 configuration. They have added new displays in on the flightdeck and a few extra features representative of the 787, and they have done lots of fun manuevers with that flight gear intact, like stalls, engine outs, extreme crosswinds, and landing on short runways (like Easter Island). It is a GE90 (I think) aircraft and it is on loan from AA because it costs so much less than bringing one off the assenbly line. Hope that helps.
From YVR
 
texfly101
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RE: Boeing Testing 787 Flight Control On AA 772ER

Wed May 17, 2006 1:44 am

Quoting Thepilot (Reply 11):
I actually visited this plane down at BFI and talked to the chief test pilot. It was brought from the desert because AA couldn't use it anymore. They have loaded the interior with testing equipment but the economy class is still in there, with PTVs and 2-5-2 configuration. They have added new displays in on the flightdeck and a few extra features representative of the 787, and they have done lots of fun manuevers with that flight gear intact, like stalls, engine outs, extreme crosswinds, and landing on short runways (like Easter Island). It is a GE90 (I think) aircraft and it is on loan from AA because it costs so much less than bringing one off the assenbly line. Hope that helps.

That answers some questions as the strike had made it impossible to get a new one off the delivery line. So they have rented a used one, refurbed it and are using it to prove out the control laws. They had wanted to use a new build for a month prior to delivery, but the strike shoved all the deliveries down the line and took out that option. This testing had to happen on a close time frame in order to meet FAA certification schedule. So they are still on schedule. Thats good news.
 
AA 777
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RE: Boeing Testing 787 Flight Control On AA 772ER

Wed May 17, 2006 1:49 am

Quoting Thepilot (Reply 11):
I actually visited this plane down at BFI and talked to the chief test pilot. It was brought from the desert because AA couldn't use it anymore. They have loaded the interior with testing equipment but the economy class is still in there, with PTVs and 2-5-2 configuration. They have added new displays in on the flightdeck and a few extra features representative of the 787, and they have done lots of fun manuevers with that flight gear intact, like stalls, engine outs, extreme crosswinds, and landing on short runways (like Easter Island). It is a GE90 (I thnk) aircraft and it is on loan from AA because it costs so much less than bringing one off the assenbly line. Hope that helps.

N780AN was not brought from the desert - AA is actually in need of it. However, Boeing's offer must have been enough that AA thought it would make more money with Boeing than flying around. It is powered by Rolls Royce and not GE.
CRJ-700 FO
 
abirda
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RE: Boeing Testing 787 Flight Control On AA 772ER

Wed May 17, 2006 2:18 am

Quoting Thepilot (Reply 11):
I actually visited this plane down at BFI and talked to the chief test pilot. It was brought from the desert because AA couldn't use it anymore.

Well, no. AA has never even thought about putting one of their 772s in the desert. They desperately need every single one they have and have to schedule them creatively just to cover all the current routes. Boeing just made them an offer that was attractive enough to replace whatever revenue was lost by leasing this plane out. Plain and simple.

Quoting Thepilot (Reply 11):
They have loaded the interior with testing equipment but the economy class is still in there, with PTVs and 2-5-2 configuration.

That's true. It appears that N780AN's coffin seats (maybe even the C seats?) were installed here:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Matt Willmott-Sharp



rather than putting flagship suites in it right away. In another thread that I can't for the life of me find right now, it was noted that N767AJ is listed in SABRE as a coffin seat 777, not a flagship. So that's my grandiose conclusion with those facts in hand.

Quoting Thepilot (Reply 11):
They have added new displays in on the flightdeck and a few extra features representative of the 787, and they have done lots of fun manuevers with that flight gear intact, like stalls, engine outs, extreme crosswinds, and landing on short runways (like Easter Island).

Undoubtedly.

Quoting Thepilot (Reply 11):
It is a GE90 (I think) aircraft and it is on loan from AA because it costs so much less than bringing one off the assenbly line. Hope that helps.

I'll have to disagree again. AA does not operate any GE90 777s. All 46 of their aircraft are Trent powered. And I don't believe Boeing would ever have entertained the option of yanking a new-build 777 off the line when it was clearly easy enough to obtain one used without disrupting the production schedule.

Quoting Texfly101 (Reply 12):
That answers some questions as the strike had made it impossible to get a new one off the delivery line.

PLEASE, people. Why in the world would Boeing have needed a new-build aircraft? The strike had nothing to do with it. Those delivery slots were assigned a LONG time ago. Boeing wasn't going to just arbitrarily bump a 777 customer off the list.

[edit] You beat me to it, AA 777! I must take too long to write posts.

[Edited 2006-05-16 19:20:20]
 
HPAEAA
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RE: Boeing Testing 787 Flight Control On AA 772ER

Wed May 17, 2006 2:50 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 8):
$5 bucks says those 737-800s never get delivered in that form. Maybe even true for the 777-200ERs.

well the 737,s who knows I think we may have to wait and see if they find a new engine for the MD-80's... if not, I'm sure they could be used, I'd rather fly in the 737 than the MD-80, its all about the entertainment LOL.. just kidding... and as far as the 772's on order, I think they'll take them... Arpey has gone on record saying that AA will never Launch a new aircraft again.. also they made some modifications to the design when they ordered them, I think they will be around for a while...

hpaeaa
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AA 777
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RE: Boeing Testing 787 Flight Control On AA 772ER

Wed May 17, 2006 2:58 am

AbirdA,

I show 767AJ, fleet 7CB as having Flagship Suites. You think you could link us to that other thread you mentioned if you can find it?

Thanks
CRJ-700 FO
 
abirda
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RE: Boeing Testing 787 Flight Control On AA 772ER

Wed May 17, 2006 3:34 am

As requested, I was pulling my info on that from reply 37 in this thread, where it is noted that ship 7CB is listed as a coffin seat aircraft in SABRE, and the same conjecture that they could be the seats from N780AN is made.

My apologies if this turns out to be wrong. It seemed credible enough though.
 
cxsjr
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RE: Boeing Testing 787 Flight Control On AA 772ER

Wed May 17, 2006 5:20 am

For the record, I was in Seattle and saw what must've been this aircraft at Boeing Field on Wednesday night and again at Everett on Friday morning ..... this article now explains all as until now I had assumed it was a new delivery which I was unaware of!

Thank you for clearing that one up.
The world is a book, those who do not travel read only one page ....
 
texfly101
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RE: Boeing Testing 787 Flight Control On AA 772ER

Wed May 17, 2006 7:03 am

Quoting AbirdA (Reply 14):
PLEASE, people. Why in the world would Boeing have needed a new-build aircraft? The strike had nothing to do with it. Those delivery slots were assigned a LONG time ago. Boeing wasn't going to just arbitrarily bump a 777 customer off the list.

Just PLEASE don't bet any money against that. Sometimes things aren't as they seem and don't really make a lot of sense to people not involved. Nuff said.
 
abirda
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RE: Boeing Testing 787 Flight Control On AA 772ER

Wed May 17, 2006 7:36 am

Quoting Texfly101 (Reply 19):
Just PLEASE don't bet any money against that. Sometimes things aren't as they seem and don't really make a lot of sense to people not involved. Nuff said.

What exactly are you trying to controvert?

I would invite you to put forth any sort of plausible situation for why Boeing would have needed to go through the incredible hassle of appropriating and wasting a new-build and very much in-demand 777 for this task when a used one would suffice perfectly nicely. If you know something, say it. If not, what is the point of trying to deny what did, in fact, happen?
 
texfly101
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RE: Boeing Testing 787 Flight Control On AA 772ER

Wed May 17, 2006 1:03 pm

I should have known to have just kept my mouth shut. Sorry, you're right, I'm wrong. Think what you want. End of story.
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: Boeing Testing 787 Flight Control On AA 772ER

Wed May 17, 2006 4:16 pm

I see this plane at BFI almost every time I'm back in town. It flies over my parent's place on the eastside on approach to BFI fairly regularly too.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 4):

I just hope they don't end their SJC-NRT route

I think this already happened.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Boeing Testing 787 Flight Control On AA 772ER

Wed May 17, 2006 11:18 pm

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 22):

I think this already happened.

not yet..just a rumour still, and they are still offing fights on their website...as well as their timetable..
"Up the Irons!"
 
yvrtoyyz
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RE: Boeing Testing 787 Flight Control On AA 772ER

Thu May 18, 2006 12:52 am

Quoting AA 777 (Reply 13):
N780AN was not brought from the desert - AA is actually in need of it. However, Boeing's offer must have been enough that AA thought it would make more money with Boeing than flying around. It is powered by Rolls Royce and not GE.



Quoting AbirdA (Reply 14):
Well, no. AA has never even thought about putting one of their 772s in the desert. They desperately need every single one they have and have to schedule them creatively just to cover all the current routes.

Correct me if I am wrong, but does UA not have B772's in the desert? Could these birds have been used instead of AA taking planes out of their fleet; or does Boeing require the ER version for their testing? I'm certain that it would have caused less hassle for AA and Boeing in terms of rescheduling aircraft had Boeing gone to UA first?

-YVRtoYYZ
 
boeingbus
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RE: Boeing Testing 787 Flight Control On AA 772ER

Thu May 18, 2006 1:04 am

Quoting YVRtoYYZ (Reply 24):
instead of AA taking planes out of their fleet;

Maybe Boeing is offering a price to AA it can't refuse? Look, Boeing and AA have a great relationship so whats so wrong helping out. AA is very likely to order some 787 soon... so why not help in that effort...

I believe recently AA has raised another 400 million from sales of stock recently so I wonder waht that will be used for? hmmm.....
Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
 
11Bravo
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RE: Boeing Testing 787 Flight Control On AA 772ER

Thu May 18, 2006 1:21 am

Quoting YVRtoYYZ (Reply 24):
I'm certain that it would have caused less hassle for AA and Boeing in terms of rescheduling aircraft had Boeing gone to UA first?

You're certain? I'll bet this wasn't a hassle at all for AA. It was good for Boeing and good for American, so they did it.
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AA777223
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RE: Boeing Testing 787 Flight Control On AA 772ER

Thu May 18, 2006 1:39 am

When is that 47th T7 set to be delivered?
A318/19/20/21, A300, A332/3, A343/6, A388, L1011, DC-9, DC-10, MD-11, MD-80, B722, B732/3/4/5/7/8/9, B743/4/4M, B752/3, B762/3/4, B772/E/W, B788/9, F-100, CRJ-200/700/900, ERJ-135/145/175, DH-8, ATR-72, DO-328, BAE-146
 
seanp11
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RE: Boeing Testing 787 Flight Control On AA 772ER

Thu May 18, 2006 1:56 am

Quoting YVRtoYYZ (Reply 24):
or does Boeing require the ER version for their testing?

I wouldn't think so--these are just FBW software tests, and all 777s are equipped with FBW. That and I don't think there are any 777s parked in the desert.
 
HPAEAA
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RE: Boeing Testing 787 Flight Control On AA 772ER

Thu May 18, 2006 3:03 am

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 25):
I believe recently AA has raised another 400 million from sales of stock recently so I wonder waht that will be used for? hmmm.....

I remeber Arpey stating multiple times that they weren't going to make any capital expenditures until they had achieved sustained profietability... He followed by saying that he couldn't take a major purchase to the board when the company is bleeding money.. granted AA is not in the shape of DL or NW but I think they want to be in the black a quarter or two before they concider purchasing aircraft...

Quoting YVRtoYYZ (Reply 24):
Correct me if I am wrong, but does UA not have B772's in the desert? Could these birds have been used instead of AA taking planes out of their fleet; or does Boeing require the ER version for their testing? I'm certain that it would have caused less hassle for AA and Boeing in terms of rescheduling aircraft had Boeing gone to UA first?

Just a posibility but I think AA made some modifications to their 772 fleet, reinforced landing gear and a couple of others... maybe those modifications more closely resemble the 787.... any thoughts?
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boeingbus
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RE: Boeing Testing 787 Flight Control On AA 772ER

Thu May 18, 2006 3:05 am

Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 29):
the black a quarter or two before they concider purchasing aircraft...

supposed to happen this year so we shall see...
Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
 
ikramerica
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RE: Boeing Testing 787 Flight Control On AA 772ER

Thu May 18, 2006 3:51 am

Quoting YVRtoYYZ (Reply 24):
Correct me if I am wrong, but does UA not have B772's in the desert?

Maybe they didn't want a PW powered jet considering the 787 will be RR and GE.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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RobK
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RE: Boeing Testing 787 Flight Control On AA 772ER

Thu May 18, 2006 3:59 am

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 27):
When is that 47th T7 set to be delivered?

Reply 10 ^ ...........

R