oznznut
Posts: 136
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 10:04 am

Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Tue May 16, 2006 10:31 am

Hi Folks

Well, It happened. As I mentioned a few days ago, On Sunday I was going to visit Christchurch. NZ1 from Lax, connection to NZ513. I have been fighting a growing fear of flying for several years. Now, it must be mentioned that I hold an A & P ticket, have flown well over 200,000 miles, and have worked in the heavy jet maintenance field. So this fear is not a life-long thing. It has progressively gotten worse. Sunday I just couldnt get on that plane. I was shaking, and crying like a baby. I will eat the ticket, and the motorhome that I had rented. Oh well, thats life.

My question. Has anyone experienced this growing fear--and then BEAT it!! I love NZ and want to go back again.

Thanks
Dave

[Edited 2006-05-16 03:32:43]
 
nwafflyer
Posts: 888
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:29 am

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Tue May 16, 2006 10:38 am

I don't understand a fear of flying - the statistics constantly tell us that flying - in general - is safer than any other means of transport. Now, if we fly mainline, US, European and Asian airlines, we're way way ahead.

A real fear of flying needs psychiatric help -- it's an irrational fear, and I wonder if too many hours of aviation forums, and too few hours of real flight contribute to the phobia

Flying is safe, yes, it can be uncomfortable today, but it is absolutely safe. Get help, don't give up on flying
 
DALelite
Posts: 1318
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 7:00 am

RE: Fear Of Flying

Tue May 16, 2006 10:40 am

hi oznznut, i am making no fun of you, but i am advicing you in seeing a therapist. i work in the field and believe me somehow it will work out!!
there also should be some workshops against the fear of flying offered by the
airlines against a fee.

ey, overcome your fear of flying!!!

DALelite/Markus
They loved to fly and it showed..
 
DALelite
Posts: 1318
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 7:00 am

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Tue May 16, 2006 10:43 am

Quoting DALelite (Reply 2):
against

for a nominal fee, i was going to say!!!

regards: Markus
They loved to fly and it showed..
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9606
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Tue May 16, 2006 10:53 am

I had a fear of turbulence. I personally am afraid of falling. It was a strong fear where I would just grip the seat in fear and always would stay nervous unless we were in perfectly stable cruise.

But I beat that fear. I beat it down. I went out and earned my private pilot's license. My instructor knew that I had a bit of fear, and on my third flight he did something that got rid of my fear. He flew the Cessna 172 into an intentionally turbulent place (near a mountain ridge). And then he took his hands off the wheel and just sat there while we bumped around like crazy. The plane was doing everything crazy. But after about a minute, he told me that no matter what happens, the plane wants to fly straight and level. After a few minutes, he told me to take the flight controls. While my hands were sweating, I could barely keep my eyes open and my breathing was erratic because we were bumping around so violently that I couldn't even breathe properly, I was flying the plane.

Eventually we landed and I realized that the plane is there to fly straight and level. That is what it is designed to do and what it loves to do. I gained trust in planes, and that eliminated my fear of turbulence. Now I still hate stalling a plane (the anticipation is worse than the actual stall), but I am comfortable now. I recently flew on one of the worst flights of my life in an ERJ as far as turbulence goes, and I just sat there with my eyes closed and relaxed while others were incredibly nervous.

A fear of flying is natural. The experiences that you undergo in a plane are not normal for humans. It is tough to deal with, but I am sure you know that flying is very safe. It is safer than walking down the street, driving to work, or many other activities that you do. Planes are designed to deal with everything that could ever happen to them. I have worked on the design/testing of various parts of airplanes and know there are margins of safety.

So I hope you can one day fly to New Zealand. It is an amazing place. I have family from there, and I truly recommend that you go. It's worth it. What is the worst that could happen? You only live once, so have some fun in life.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
UKCO
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 10:15 am

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Tue May 16, 2006 10:55 am

It is not just flying, I once had an irrational fear of trains, just as strong. I beat that.

You need to see a therapist to talk about the problem. They will give you a strategy to deal with it.

Sometimes things like these are brought on from stress or other problems in life.

[Edited 2006-05-16 03:56:32]
 
ABpositive
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:36 pm

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Tue May 16, 2006 11:11 am

Another reason why you might have progressively developed your fear of flying might be that you are not in fact afraid of flying itself, but rather there are other factors associated with flying in an airplane.
Anxiety due hearing a lot about things such as DVT and terrorism which subconciously contribute to the tension.
An ageing body is more likely to develop a dislike for unnatural environment, i.e. plane's motion, dry air, low pressure.
There are many other possible contributors and it might be worth doing some brainstorming to pinpoint them more precisely.
There are some good links on the web as well:
http://www.behavioralassociates.com/fearofflying.asp
 
irobertson
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:35 am

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Tue May 16, 2006 11:19 am

Quoting Oznznut (Thread starter):
have flown well over 200,000 miles



Quoting Nwafflyer (Reply 1):
and too few hours of real flight contribute to the phobia

How many hours is enough then Nwafflyer?? I don't think that flying more is helping him and that seemed pretty clear. It's obviously a far deeper fear than simply a lack of exposure. Indeed, I'm sure he needs some care and help from someone, but simply forcing flying on himself will not do, and unless we have any aviation psychologists who participate on this forum, we really can't do anything except sympathize and wish him the very best in overcoming his fear.
 
kiwiinoz
Posts: 1999
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:07 pm

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Tue May 16, 2006 11:30 am

I agree, it's an irrational fear and needs professional help.

Maybe look at it this way. You seem like a well travelled guy who likes to suck the marrow out of life. Even if there was a 1% chance of dying, (which there isn't), wouldn't you be prepared to take that risk to experience the amazing things the world has to offer?

I'd choose death over life-long geographic containment any day.

Hope you sort it out, all the best!
 
Duff44
Posts: 1561
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:48 am

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Tue May 16, 2006 11:41 am

I'd consider this irrational only because you've (seemingly) flown before without incident.

You don't need to answer this but, was there some other event that might make flying a bad experience for you? (like having to fly due to a death in the family, or some other kind of major stress)

Maybe afraid of a terrorist act or something? Where/when did it start?
I'll rassle ya for a bowl of bacon!
 
comorin
Posts: 3857
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 5:52 am

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Tue May 16, 2006 11:47 am

Dave,

These things appear suddenly, and you will need help it making it go away. This is easily done with a good therapist plus medication. Have you had any traumatic experiences lately involving a loved one? Sometimes they can trigger off these episodes.

I went through a bad spell, and like many on a.net, now enjoy flying again. I think you will be feeling good again soon, and make up for lost time flying!

All the best, but do seek help - it's very treatable.
 
nzrich
Posts: 1095
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:51 pm

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Tue May 16, 2006 11:59 am

Hi i know you dont live in New Zealand but Air NZ recommends this fear of flying school web www.fearofflying.co.nz im sure this guy and hes really nice could put you in contact with someone in your area ...Best of luck and im sure we will see you down here soon...
"Pride of the pacific"
 
Eirjet
Posts: 317
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 1:09 am

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Tue May 16, 2006 12:16 pm

Quoting Nwafflyer (Reply 1):
I don't understand a fear of flying - the statistics constantly tell us that flying - in general - is safer than any other means of transport.

Fear of Flying is very common worldwide - Entering into the unknown or being placed in an unfamiliar environment can create fear. Most people I know who are afraid of flying are people who know liitle about aviation an aircraft! There is not much people can understand expect the individuals who are experiencing the fear itself

Quoting Nwafflyer (Reply 1):
A real fear of flying needs psychiatric help



Quoting DALelite (Reply 2):
hi oznznut, i am making no fun of you, but i am advicing you in seeing a therapist. i work in the field and believe me somehow it will work out!!



Quoting UKCO (Reply 5):
You need to see a therapist to talk about the problem



Quoting Comorin (Reply 10):
therapist plus medication

Therapists are waaay over rated and over payed, I dont have time for them (In no way am I claiming that therapists have not being beneficial to some people). When I experienced my first flight (BAE146) I was a nervous wreck -I would get extremely nervous and agitated when about to board an aircraft. That was 6 years ago, now I love flying, turbulence and all - But my remedy was no Therapist - It was educating myself about aircraft and aviation.
I read somewhere that the key to releave stress and anxiety is breathing - controlling the heart rate.

Oznznut, I hope all works out, but remember therapy is not the only solution to your problem.....

Eirjet
Aviation has a 100% record, we've never left one up there......
 
Eirjet
Posts: 317
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 1:09 am

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Tue May 16, 2006 12:34 pm

Quoting UKCO (Reply 15):
Leave it to people who know what his problem is.

Like you I suppose. Grow up !!!!

QUOTE - I once had an irrational fear of trains......

And I of aircraft .......

[Edited 2006-05-16 05:38:10]
Aviation has a 100% record, we've never left one up there......
 
UKCO
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 10:15 am

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Tue May 16, 2006 12:38 pm

Quoting Eirjet (Reply 16):
Like you I suppose. Grow up !!!!

Yes I know for instance that CBT will help him with breathing and rationalising the situation. I know exacly what he is experiencing because I have been through it myself.

I get annoyed with people like you who don't think before they write whatever secondhand rubbish comes out of their mouths. Therapy may be overrated and expensive for you but could pull this guy out of a rapidly downward spiralling situation.

So I suggest you should grow up a little and realise when you don't know about something, you don't comment on it.
 
Eirjet
Posts: 317
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 1:09 am

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Tue May 16, 2006 12:42 pm

Quoting CO" class=quote target=_blank>UKCO (Reply 17):
I know exacly what he is experiencing because I have been through it myself.



Quoting CO" class=quote target=_blank>UKCO (Reply 5):
I once had an irrational fear of trains...

[quote=UKCO,reply=13]So how can you compare your experience to his...? quote]


Welcome to Airliners.net

[Edited 2006-05-16 05:43:48]
Aviation has a 100% record, we've never left one up there......
 
kiwiinoz
Posts: 1999
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:07 pm

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Tue May 16, 2006 1:00 pm

To the thread starter:

I would like to express our regret that his thread related to your fear of flying has morphed into an egotistical, name calling, pissing contest of "who knows best" and "who's the oldest and wisest" and "my opinion is the most important etc."

But that's the way of a-net I guess.

Happy flying. If all else fails, drink through it, (works for my wife)
 
UTwriter
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 10:55 am

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Tue May 16, 2006 1:07 pm

Just to get the forum back on track a bit....I had a similar experience some years back...made it to the airport and then made it right back into my car (supposed to go to England on a choir cathedral tour--yeah, I'm a loser for not going...) BUT, since then have been all over the world and have cultivate a love (my husband might say obsession) for aircraft(I'm flying on my 1st 747 in 2 months!). We have an observation deck at our airport that I frequent and of course this site has been extremley helpful. I think learning more about these magnificent machines has really help ease(I won't say conquer) my fear! Hope it goes well for you!!
Also, the site is a bit cheesy, but Cpt. Stacey Chance runs a free fear of flying website (complete with therapist videos) at www.fearofflyinghelp.com) Also, he is great about responding to email questions!
 
tsaord
Posts: 1267
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:46 pm

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Tue May 16, 2006 1:49 pm

Quoting Nwafflyer (Reply 1):
I don't understand a fear of flying - the statistics constantly tell us that flying - in general - is safer than any other means of transport. Now, if we fly mainline, US, European and Asian airlines, we're way way ahead.

Even though it may be considered safer the fact that your not in control if something goes wrong is the problem! I have a fear of flying but I have flown twice since October 2005.

Also, I will get in my car and drive away all day with no fear! But when you are 30,000 feet in the air is a different story! The thought of the plane exploding and noze diving scares the crab out of some people! its a horrible way to go.
I have become a litte more relaxed about flying even though some fear is still there untill the plane lands lol.
there are icons, then there are legends, then there is rick flair
 
ComeAndGo
Posts: 814
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:58 pm

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Tue May 16, 2006 4:18 pm

I had a similar experience a few years back. I loved flying as a kid, wanted to become a pilot, didn't become a pilot after all. Never had a problem flying. Then about ten years ago I developed this fear of not just flying but riding just about any transport system: Chairlifts, busses, trains, cablecars, elevators, I couldn't drive on the freeway because I got extremely nervous and sometimes got headrushes. It took me a while to figure out what was going on. In my case it was two different problems. One was a deficiency of minerals and vitamins. That's easy, go to a doctor, do a hair sample test and they can tell you what mineral you have too much of. The doctor can also tell you what vitamins to take to deal with fear. I noticed how a deficiency of B6 can cause panic attacks. The other problem was digestion. In extreme cases it can lead to Irritable Bowl Syndrome. When you have an IBS attack while flying you go through serious anxiety moments. You can't sit still. You constantly think the plane is about to crash. The slightest turn the aircraft makes, can result in you loosing it completely. You sweat like a pig, and literarily shake. And strangely enough the next day you fly again and then everything is fine. No panic attacks no nothing. The simple solution to IBS is, eat better and do more exercise. You can also see an alternative medicine doctor who will prescribe mucus for the bowl to facilitate the digestive process. It worked for me and flying is a joy again.
 
kiwiinoz
Posts: 1999
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:07 pm

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Tue May 16, 2006 4:26 pm

Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 24):
The other problem was digestion. In extreme cases it can lead to Irritable Bowl Syndrome. When you have an IBS attack while flying you go through serious anxiety moments. You can't sit still. You constantly think the plane is about to crash. The slightest turn the aircraft makes, can result in you loosing it completely. You sweat like a pig, and literarily shake. And strangely enough the next day you fly again and then everything is fine. No panic attacks no nothing. The simple solution to IBS is, eat better and do more exercise. You can also see an alternative medicine doctor who will prescribe mucus for the bowl to facilitate the digestive process. It worked for me and flying is a joy again.

No!!?? Surely you're taking the piss out of us!?

Never in my life would I have imagined Irritable Bowel Syndrome would lead to anxiety about flying.

Love internet forums, you learn something new and unusual every day!
 
chiad
Posts: 1000
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 4:24 pm

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Tue May 16, 2006 4:59 pm

Hi Oznznut

I normally don't share this on a forum like this because it's a little outside of a "normal" aviation topic. But you sound so upright about this experience and if I don't say it ... who will?

Your "unaccountable" fear of flying comes from an unpleasant experience from a past-life that may have caused your death.
In that past-life you might have experienced being locked in a tight space, drowning or some kind of accident involving machinery where someone else was in control.
The trauma from this expereince is now very present in your emotional consciousness of this life-time, as you already know, and is being triggered by the presence of a "potential" unsafe travel in a tight fuselage where you need to fully trust someone else.

I hope I don't encroach upon your space by saying this. I don't mean to. But it's like I said before: If I don't tell you ... who will?

Best regards
Chiad
 
kiwiinoz
Posts: 1999
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:07 pm

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Tue May 16, 2006 5:04 pm

Quoting Chiad (Reply 26):
Hi Oznznut

I normally don't share this on a forum like this because it's a little outside of a "normal" aviation topic. But you sound so upright about this experience and if I don't say it ... who will?

Your "unaccountable" fear of flying comes from an unpleasant experience from a past-life that may have caused your death.
In that past-life you might have experienced being locked in a tight space, drowning or some kind of accident involving machinery where someone else was in control.
The trauma from this expereince is now very present in your emotional consciousness of this life-time, as you already know, and is being triggered by the presence of a "potential" unsafe travel in a tight fuselage where you need to fully trust someone else.

I hope I don't encroach upon your space by saying this. I don't mean to. But it's like I said before: If I don't tell you ... who will?

Best regards
Chiad

Chiad, welcome to A-net.

And can I say, as far as maiden posts go, that's pretty much the best I've seen yet.

Cheers
 
csavel
Posts: 1270
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 9:38 pm

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Tue May 16, 2006 6:27 pm

Quoting Duff44 (Reply 9):
You don't need to answer this but, was there some other event that might make flying a bad experience for you? (like having to fly due to a death in the family, or some other kind of major stress)

How true this is! Especially if this happens on the transition from childhood to adulthood. I have a friend who flew home when her father had a heart attack, she was 21. Flight was bumpy. She was already stressed, morphed into a huge fear of flying.

Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 21):
To the thread starter:

I would like to express our regret that his thread related to your fear of flying has morphed into an egotistical, name calling, pissing contest of "who knows best" and "who's the oldest and wisest" and "my opinion is the most important etc."

Ditto.

As for your problem...

1) Don't be ashamed for having fear, no matter how irrational it is. Just by telling us about it you are on your way to getting help and being empowered. First step to beating it. Frankly being man enough to admit it on an aviation forum earns my respect.

2) The problem with all phobias is that it is related to our fight-or flight system. The most primitive, reptilian part of the brain. The part we have the least control of. It fires so fast, that for the phobic, it is practically impossible to override it without special help and training. Talking statistics or logic is useless and stupid once the fight or flight signal is lit. Do people really think the phobic is so stupid that he doesn't realize how "irrational" the fear is? The fight or flight reflex is so powerful because it helped us outrun the saber toothed tiger. And just one exposure powerfully rewires the brain to avoid the saber toothed tiger. What you have to do is re-wire it back. Not easy, but if people can re-wire themselves to quit smoking or drugs, then people can rewire themselves for anything.

3) A therapist trained in phobias is the best solution. There are specific proven techniques, best learned from a pro that will help. Also you should probably try to book a short graduation flight if you can afford it. Then a longer one, etc., etc. One of the best phobia solutions is graduated exposure with a therapist or a trusted person who can remind you to breathe and relax, when the fight or flight system threatens to take over. Unfortunately, unlike heights, or elevators, unless you are rich, doing that gradual exposure is impractical. Hence, the fear of flying trained therapist, many of whom work with pilots.

4) Please let us know how you are doing! I'd love to hear how you are making progress. Frankly I wonder if there are a lot of secret fearful flyers on A-net, and also wonder if it is worth it to have a sort of fear of flying clinic message board, where fearful flyers and those who are mature enough not to make fun of them (all three of us) can share ideas and encouragement. Gotta post that on the site board.
I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
 
BA380
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 9:59 pm

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Tue May 16, 2006 6:40 pm

I can completely sympathise. Even though I fly a lot and am fascinated by it, I go through phases of being scared - really badly. Can't explain it and who cares really. What worked for me was hypnotherapy. You can get good CDs (on amazon etc) to use for this and using it for an hour a day for three weeks can substantially reduce the phobia to a manageable level and maybe eliminate it.

I would try this before you get into expensive therapy as it really does work. If it does, it will be the best 10 dollars you ever spent!!!
cabin crew: doors to automatic and cross-check...
 
BAtriple7
Posts: 217
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:05 am

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Tue May 16, 2006 7:20 pm

First of all, don't worry. Lots of people have a fear of flying (FOF). Estimates range from between 1 out of 3 to 1 out of 5 people feeling 'nervousness' of some sort when flying, especially at takeoff and during turbulence. Less people have a debilitating (i.e. will not get on a flight) fear, but they are still significant numbers - for example, the FOF company Aviatours (http://www.aviatours.co.uk/), partnered with BA, runs flights with Avro RJ100s and A320s from MAN, LHR, BHX and other airports every month and they are always booked full of fearful fliers.

So, FOF is widespread. Just look at the SOAR site (http://www.fearofflying.com/) or at the MSN Fear of Flying group site (http://groups.msn.com/FearofFlyingForum/general.msnw). Lots of people on there. So, you're not alone. However, beware of buying expensive 'solutions' to FOF offered on the internet.

What can be done about it?

Firstly, IT IS NOT RATIONAL. Do not try to rationalize it. Equally, those posters on here who mouth off statistics - e.g. 9only 1 in a gazillion planes fall down....' IT DOESN'T HELP.

There are some solutions which I know of. Don't just try one - try several:

1.) See a therapist. Cognitive Behavioural Theraphy (CBT) is particularly good for phobias; find yourself a good CBT therapist.

2.) Join a group run by an airline for fearful fliers - Aviatours above is the BA example, but lots of airlines have their own too. They take you through a day of psychological techniques, then on a flight which you walk onto yourself without any persuasion.

3.) Take some PPL lessons. These are by far the best way to kick any FOF. The best psychologist is a good flight instructor who can show you the fun and love of flying. It is amazing.

4.) Do not drink when you fly or a few days before. Do not take too much tea or coffee before/during flying. Get to the airport in time to avoid rushing. Do everything you have to do to make yourself comfortable. Forget the demands of anyone else who is flying with you. They find it easy, YOU don't, so they'll just have to lump it for a while. Want to get to the airport hours before a 30min flight? Go ahead. At the airport, watch planes take off and land, for at least 20 minutes. It increases confidence - it's all so 'normal'.  Smile

5.) If you REALLY need to - after all else have failed - try some meds, starting a few days earlier, which can calm you down. Ask your doctor for advice on this however.

6.) When you do get in the air - and YOU WILL - fly at least a return flight, however short, every 4 weeks to keep up familiarity with the flight experience. WN exists, so use their cheap fares and see the world!

One thing I am sure of is that you will overcome it and beat it, and you will one day sit up there at 35,000 feet and feel completely liberated and exhilarated. I am praying that you will get over this and am sure you will do it.

 bigthumbsup 
 
Hantsflyer27
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:07 am

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Tue May 16, 2006 7:25 pm

Hi Oznznut,

I think you have probably by now gathered you are not alone in your experiences. I too have suffered in a similar vain to yourself.

When i was young, i would fly everywhere, and not think too much of, but come my early twenties i grew some kind of irrational fear of the whole flying episode. The moment i would arrive at the airport, i would be sweaty, clammy, dizzy and my heart rate would go through the roof and it would get worse right through the flight, and until the moment the plane touched the runway at the destination airport. At the moment of touchdown i would get a rush of relief that to me ran through my veins as if it were the best drug on the market. It was only when i passed on a opportunity to go to the Maldives to help with the post tsunami aid relief because of the flying that i realised i had to do something about on my fears.

Months of research on the internet (didn't get much work done hehe) firstly told me what my fears were, and this is the key issue, what aspect of flying scares you?? For me it was an 'out of control' or 'inevitability' issue. Once the door of that aircraft had shut with me inside it, there was nothing further i could do to alter my exisitence for the next few hours. That scared me. But i learnt about the industry, i did educate myself, i spoke to pilots and i reassured myself that flying is nothing to be remotely afraid of and in fact something to savour and enjoy, which i do now very much and more with each further flight. I'm not expecting what i have said to help your particular case, but i bet your specific symptoms and or worries are mirrored by thousand of other people the world other. Do some research, you'll find some answers i'm sure, then see how you go beyond that.
www.askcaptainlim.com
This is a site that helped me in particular. I wish you all the best.

Regards, HF
 
irobertson
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:35 am

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Tue May 16, 2006 9:42 pm

Not sure how similar or relevant this is, but my wife has a fear of heights while flying between inital rotation and about 5000 feet. Above that, she's perfectly fine. Below that, she can't look outside without getting dizzy and nervous. Something perhaps with the idea of being able to see real people and cars at that height and less so at higher altitude (i.e then it seems less real?)

Most of these "irrational" fears only seem irrational to those of us who don't have them. Even to those that do, sometimes they might call it irrational because everyone else does, but what they do know is that they possess the fear and rarely do they know why without a lot of thought, digging, and help from people with experience. I hope you find some amount of support and inspiration from people on this site Oznznut. I'm sure we all would like to see you board that flight from LAX to NZ without any fear.
 
klm672
Posts: 2514
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 1999 6:09 am

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Wed May 17, 2006 12:11 am

I never had a real fear of flying I was always a tad nervous. I got a job with an airline and got sent to training each week for abut 3 weeks (rountrip=6 flights) and that pretty much cured it. working in the industry you can see how much work goes into it too, which helped me. It became so normal for me I almost feel asleep on takeoff (half the time it was the end of a long hard week).
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Wed May 17, 2006 12:13 am

Here's my cure...xanax. I used to love flying until a I took a job that required travel about 80% of the time....we were departing CLT on the old Piedmont (727) and the takeoff roll seemed neverending. Finally the gal beside me said "shouldn't we be in the air by now?". And I've been nervous, especially about takeoffs ever since. I sucked it up over the years, but finally saw a psychiatrist, who happened to be a private pilot - he prescribed xanax and I've never had a problem since.
 
chiad
Posts: 1000
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 4:24 pm

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Wed May 17, 2006 4:15 am

Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 22):
Chiad, welcome to A-net.

And can I say, as far as maiden posts go, that's pretty much the best I've seen yet.

Cheers

Hi KiwiinOz

Well thank you so much for the welcome!
I've been around here for a few months, but this was my first post.
A-net has become my most visited web-site.
 Smile

Regards
Chiad
 
YYZYYT
Posts: 906
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:41 am

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Wed May 17, 2006 4:33 am

as it happens, this very topic is also being discussed in tech/ops:
777 Take-off - At What Altitude Can I 'relax'? (by Visionfusion Apr 26 2005 in Tech Ops)

read down for suggestions as to programs to help overcome fear of flying...
 
YZFOO7F
Posts: 112
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 3:34 pm

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Wed May 17, 2006 8:15 am

I went through a period when I was very afraid of flying. It was when I started working for an airline and learning bits and pieces about aviation. That's about when I started having a huge interest in the subject and was researching accidents, which I think caused most of my anxiety. After time I started to learn more and more about it and it was all the knowledge that calmed me down I think. Now I'm going for my CPL, and when I think back I can't imagine how scared I was of flying before. Turbulence is the big difference, as its now nothing in an airliner compared to that of a Cessna. I think you can beat this, just keep trying.
Promise me you'll always leave the ground
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Wed May 17, 2006 9:16 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 4):
Eventually we landed and I realized that the plane is there to fly straight and level. That is what it is designed to do and what it loves to do. I gained trust in planes, and that eliminated my fear of turbulence

Sorry to burst your bubble, but, IIRC, that doesn't necessarily apply to planes with neutral or negative stabilty... A C172 has positive stability. A good instructor/groundschool course would've mentioned that.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 4):
Now I still hate stalling a plane (the anticipation is worse than the actual stall),

The more you do them, the better chances you have of saving your life if you stall for real, plus you would get rid of the fear as well.

Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 16):
drink through it,

Now that's not helpful...  Yeah sure
 
QXFLYINGCOUG
Posts: 87
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RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Wed May 17, 2006 9:33 am

Hey there!

I have had the same thing happen to me in the last couple years. I love flying and always have, but my last time on my way home from England I had the biggest panic attack in the world. Since then I've flown quite a bit more, and my fear is still there, but not as bad. For me I just try and think about other stuff like doing crosswords or flying on planes that have good IFE. If there are times that I get really bad I take a low dose of some meds that help me to relax. For Christmas last year my parents bought me my first flight lesson, so I think if I go through with those I will be able to be more comfortable with flying and be able to do it without meds.

JUST KNOW YOU'RE NOT ALONE!
--GO COUGS--
 
ANITIX87
Posts: 2958
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:52 am

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Wed May 17, 2006 9:51 am

Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 19):
I noticed how a deficiency of B6 can cause panic attacks.

A lack of Jet Blue gives you panis attacks!?!?!  Smile Just kidding. This makes sense, as my father is B6 deficient and refuses to get on a plane unless his entire family is with him in case something happens.

Quoting Goingboeing (Reply 29):
Here's my cure...xanax.

That's been my cure for 3 years. It's the only thing that works.

I was never afraid of flying until SR111, when I realized I'd been on that very airframe 3 hours before it went down. For me, it's not the death aspect, or even the lack of control that scares me. For me, it's the time that would elapse between 35,000 feet and 0 feet if the plane didn't just disintigrate and I didn't die instantly. That's what scares the living heck out of me. I just cannot imagine falling for that long, knowing you'll never see the ones you love again, knowing you're going to die. Oh God. I'm flying tomorrow! Now I've gone and worried myself!

TIS
www.stellaryear.com: Canon EOS 50D, Canon EOS 5DMkII, Sigma 50mm 1.4, Canon 24-70 2.8L II, Canon 100mm 2.8L, Canon 100-4
 
Rob878
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:35 am

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Wed May 17, 2006 10:19 am

I might have an extreme suggestion. i dont have a fear of flying though so its ok for me but i know some people that tried it with the suggestion of a therapist.

The best way to beat a fear is to face it. And facing it in the most extreme way possible.

Go SKYDIVING!!! i met a few people that did it to get over their fear of flying and it worked. One of them became an avid skydivier. I am not a therapist but have taken some psyc classes and it makes sense. Once you experience the most extreme form of "flight", boarding an airliner will be no sweat.

I am a pilot, and i have more fear driving on the roads and highways with alot of people that should not be driving. It is far more dangerous to drive on the interstate than to fly on an airliner. Keep in mind that the pilots are trained very well and the aircraft are maintained very well.

If its your time to go its your time, but i really hope you get over the fear of flying. it is my passion and i enjoy sharing it with other people.



Good luck! and Blue skies!!!!
P.S. an old polish saying, "may you have as many landings as takeoffs"


Rob
 
YZFOO7F
Posts: 112
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RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Wed May 17, 2006 10:24 am

What do you think the chances are of any airlines putting a digital altimeter, airspeed indicator and maybe an attitude indicator in the entertainment system? That would probably keep me calm in IMC conditions when you can't see whats going on. I guess it wouldn't be too much use though as the entertainment system generally isn't on during take off and landing, which is when it would be comforting.
Promise me you'll always leave the ground
 
kmh1956
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RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Wed May 17, 2006 10:42 am

I love flying, but also have a fear of flying. I also have a wonderful doctor, with whomI discussed my fear. (Not a therapist, just a regular GP) He had one word for me: valium. Don't leave home without it.
'Somebody tell me why I'm on my own if there's a soulmate for everyone' :Natasha Bedingfield
 
OHLHD
Posts: 2903
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RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Wed May 17, 2006 9:51 pm

I would not call my former problem a fear of flying but I was nervours and dead serious when it came to flying somewhere and I always thought about crashing and dying. Since I´ve joined an airline ( my current job) I started flying more and more and I finally realised the more I fly the less I got nervous and the more it became relaxing. I can´t imagine a month without flying Non-Ref somewhere as you might see in my signature.

This helped me but I think it should not be taken as an advise for everyone. Profesional help is one possibilty to overcome your fear but maybe you should talk to pilots or even better, if you got the chance to fly with one and he/she is explaining all the differnt noises and movements of the aircraft during flight.

Just a suggestion.  Smile
 
Toulouse
Posts: 2193
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RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Wed May 17, 2006 10:07 pm

I had an incident on a plane in 2000, and developped what I thought was a fear of flying (I actually cancelled going back to my brother's wedding to avoid having to take a plane!). Anyway, later it turned out that I had developed a "panic disorder", and through my GP, a few visits to a psychologist, and medical treatment (Xanax), I got over this. I realised I wasn't afraid of flying, but I was afraid of being locked up in the plane and having a panic attack there (sever anxiety) and not being able to get help. My condition got quite bad after 3 years of my flying fear, and suddenly out of no where I started to get the same sensations when in the car, on the underground, out for a long walk (and I had always loved walking), when on chair-lifts (I love skiing, and it totally turned me off skiing for a while) and even in my local mall. So I knew something was wrong, then I got help, and now, well I'd say I'm 99% cured (only discovered the panic thing in April 2004). And I've regained my love of flying.
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
trb10
Posts: 165
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RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Thu May 18, 2006 12:34 am

Well I've tried it all, medication, hypnotherapy, a fear of flying course nothing worked at all. I have a brilliant book called Flying without Fear by Capt Keith Godfrey which you can get on amazon etc and I avidly read that before I go away and at the airport. I also have a paul mckenna hypnosis cd which I think has helped despite a 121 hypnotherapy session failing.

Just last week I went away and had a very short flight to get there, 30 mins and I actually coped really well, and though I still hate take off with a passion, I actually found myself beginning to enjoy the rest of the flight, so maybe just a really short flight could be a good start?

I also had my mp3 player on during take off which I know is not allowed but that helped too!
 
F9Animal
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Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Thu May 18, 2006 12:54 am

Oznznut,

Hey bud, that is awesome that you shared your fear with us. I feel your pain, as I too have gotten a little more paranoid about flying since I have gotten older. I have not gotten to the point of not getting on a plane, but I certainly have the rapid heart beat, and a little sweat building during takeoff and landing.

Perhaps it is because I have become a dad, and the visions of 9/11 are still stuck in the mind. I don't know, but you certainly are not alone. Remember, if you had gotten on that plane, your old ticker might have quit ticking??!!! Last flight I took, I was not the young guy that loved moderate turbulence. Is that just age, or is it just....... Oh hell.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
jhooper
Posts: 5560
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 8:27 pm

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Thu May 18, 2006 4:43 am

Quoting Oznznut (Thread starter):
Now, it must be mentioned that I hold an A & P ticket, have flown well over 200,000 miles, and have worked in the heavy jet maintenance field.

....maybe you know too much about what kinds of problems aircraft develop???
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
roseflyer
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Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Thu May 18, 2006 2:03 pm

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 33):
Sorry to burst your bubble, but, IIRC, that doesn't necessarily apply to planes with neutral or negative stabilty... A C172 has positive stability. A good instructor/groundschool course would've mentioned that.

You are right on that. I am aware. I'm an engineer that is quite familiar with stability and the concept of positive versus negative stability, but for airplanes the concept of an airplane going straight and level is not exclusive the a plane like the C172 with positive stability. A 747 is designed to mimic positive stability with all of the different control systems for the plane. It will fly straight and level just as much as a C172 will without pilot input. Now I can't say I've piloted anything but a C172 myself, but outside of the military and specialized planes, maintaining stability is crucial in aircraft design.

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 33):
The more you do them, the better chances you have of saving your life if you stall for real, plus you would get rid of the fear as well.

Not true. There are people out there that never like doing them. I don't get scared doing a stall, I just hate the experience. I have done plenty. My instructor thought my apprehension against them will go away, but that never happened. Some people like flying, but don't like falling.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
OHLHD
Posts: 2903
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:02 am

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Thu May 18, 2006 5:49 pm

http://www.aua.com/at/eng/About_Flight/medical/fear/default.htm

I did a search as I rememberd that Austrian Airlines offered a programm against fear of flying.

Maybe there are more airlines that offer such a programm.
 
infodesk
Posts: 1462
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 11:06 pm

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Sat May 20, 2006 1:18 am

Quoting Oznznut (Thread starter):
Has anyone experienced this growing fear

Oznznut, you are not alone. May I say that admitting you didn't get on the plane on these pages can't have been easy.

I am fascinated by planes, work at an airport (and see just how many aircraft land and take-off safely everyday) but am terrified of flying. As a teenager I flew across the atlantic without any problem but now even a 90minute flight is an ordeal. My last trip was in March and I ended up visiting the doctor on the morning of the flight and ended up with Xanax. I wanted to avoid tablets, but have accepted that if they make it easier, then I'll take them.

Good luck!  smile 
"Do nothing in haste, look well to each step and from the beginning think what may be the end" - Edward Whymper
 
Mogget
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 10:00 pm

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Sat May 20, 2006 2:00 am

Quote:
I don't understand a fear of flying - the statistics constantly tell us that flying - in general - is safer than any other means of transport.

Statistics are irrelevant. If something goes seriously wrong on a plane, you're knackered. If a car engine fails, you roll to a stop.
 
jhooper
Posts: 5560
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 8:27 pm

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Sat May 20, 2006 4:54 am

Quoting Mogget (Reply 47):
Statistics are irrelevant. If something goes seriously wrong on a plane, you're knackered. If a car engine fails, you roll to a stop.

I wouldn't discount statistics entirely. They do give you a general idea how likely you are to die on any given random trip, by plane or by car. Frankly riding in a car is far more dangerous. Besides, even if something does go seriously wrong with a plane, the systems are redundant enough the plane can still be recovered safely.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
oznznut
Posts: 136
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 10:04 am

RE: Fear Of Flying---It Wins, I Lose

Sat May 20, 2006 10:03 am

Hi All

Just want to say "Thank you" to all who responded with their kind words. Sometimes the hardest thing is to ask for help. I've found out that my employer will pay for three sessions with a psych doc. I'm also going to try one of those self help CDs that were mentioned. And I guess there is always Xanax! lol

Dave