ATA767
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ATA Adds More Flights

Wed May 17, 2006 4:44 am

Surprised that they are not adding another LGA-HOU as that route has done well for them. The head to head compitition with AirTran seems stupid when they can add another segment that is doing well. With United and Hawaiian adding more flights from LAX its does not make much sense.

Beginning May 25, low-cost carrier ATA Airlines will add a second non-stop flight between Los Angeles and Honolulu. The flight will operate Thursday through Monday. On July 17, ATA will add a fifth daily non-stop flight between Chicago Midway and Dallas/Fort Worth. With AirTran’s recent launch of Midway-DFW service, ATA now flies head-to-head against AirTran on that route.
 
Humberside
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Wed May 17, 2006 5:29 am

Good to see ATA comitted to the scheduled flights that they still operate
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drerx7
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Wed May 17, 2006 7:49 am

When they had a 738 down a 757 subbed on the Hobby-LGA route for about 3 or 4 turns on what I think was the first revenue 757 service to Hobby. I think they had some jetbridge problems over at C55 per the IAHSpotters club. I'm surprised they are not on the central concourse with Southwest. I'd like to see them operate a 757 regularly.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
ScottB
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Wed May 17, 2006 8:02 am

Quoting ATA767 (Thread starter):
Surprised that they are not adding another LGA-HOU as that route has done well for them.

Didn't you know that they were supposed to fail on that route (LGA-HOU) according to some of the folks around here? I'd guess lack of LGA slots would preclude additional service unless they were to take away from MDW-LGA.
 
drerx7
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Wed May 17, 2006 8:46 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 3):
I'd guess lack of LGA slots would preclude additional service unless they were to take away from MDW-LGA.

Of course which is why a 757 would be the only logical expansion route.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
ATA767
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Wed May 17, 2006 9:59 am

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 4):
Quoting ScottB (Reply 3):
I'd guess lack of LGA slots would preclude additional service unless they were to take away from MDW-LGA.

ATA can is not operating at slot capacity at LGA, they have room for at least 3 more round trips.

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 4):
Of course which is why a 757 would be the only logical expansion route.

Yields may suffer using the 757 as that has a higher fuel cost and less fuel efficiency and only 25 more seats than the 737-800 all coach. Only if they really see it busting at the seems (which it is close now) and they can charge more on that route would it make sense to upgrade to a 757. At that rate they would do better by adding another round trip. Thursday and Friday are showing loads of over 90%.
 
drerx7
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Wed May 17, 2006 11:13 am

Hmm... well that sounds promising, I suppose regularly scheduled 757s out of Hobby aren't out of the realm of possibility then. Any other possible ATA runs out of HOU?
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
jjbiv
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Thu May 18, 2006 1:20 am

Is the 757-200 less fuel efficent than the 737-800? I was under the impression that the -200 was one of the least expensive aircraft (to operate) on a per seat basis. It makes sense that the -800 could be more fuel efficent with its newer design, engines, and winglets while still costing slightly more per seat to operate since it seats fewer customers.

joe
 
ATA767
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Thu May 18, 2006 1:48 am

Quoting Jjbiv (Reply 7):
Is the 757-200 less fuel efficent than the 737-800?

It is a heavier plane so it would cost more to operate. Added to that it is not as fuel efficient as the 800's you will see that it makes sense. I am not sure but I think the front-end crew also cost more per hour.
 
dutchjet
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Thu May 18, 2006 2:17 am

Quoting Jjbiv (Reply 7):
Is the 757-200 less fuel efficent than the 737-800? I was under the impression that the -200 was one of the least expensive aircraft (to operate) on a per seat basis. It makes sense that the -800 could be more fuel efficent with its newer design, engines, and winglets while still costing slightly more per seat to operate since it seats fewer customers.

joe



Quoting ATA767 (Reply 8):

It is a heavier plane so it would cost more to operate. Added to that it is not as fuel efficient as the 800's you will see that it makes sense. I am not sure but I think the front-end crew also cost more per hour.

All things being equal, the 752 should be cheaper to operate on a per seat basis than a 738.......provided that all of the seats on the aircraft are filled to capacity. But probably the flights are not running filled to capacity on a day in, day out basis at this time.....the 90% figure mentioned above sounds good, but is this typical or just for the subject Thursday and Friday? ATA is probably better of flying an almost full 738 than trying to upgrade to a 752 and having to sell the extra 25 or more extra seats per day at cheaper fares that would hurt yeilds.

The other thing, as for an additional flight or upgrading equipment, is the yeilds in general on the LGA-HOU route.......last time we discussed this, I suggested that yeilds on the route are not yet great and many seats were still being sold at cheap/introductory fares, and got slammed as being anti-ATA. That is simply not true, I am not anti ATA, they are a good airline that has seen some hard times and I do hope that ATA survives but I am honestly skeptical about their long term future at a scheduled carrier (their talent in the charter business is top-flight): its a very difficult enviornment for a "smaller" airline such as ATA. ATA has had a reasonable start in the LGA-HOU market, but its now time to increase fares on the route to make it a profitable route......and unless and until ATA can raise fares on this (and some other routes) and get the yeilds up, its unlikely that we will see more seats in the LGA-HOU market......ATA needs to sell the existing seats at higher fares. Lets see what happens.
 
AmtrakGuy
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Thu May 18, 2006 2:31 am

Could anyone give me an update on HOU airport contruction? I checked the HOU website and it hasn't been updated for two years. Has the Concourse A been rebuilt? Is the Concouse B still there? I recalled the plan was for Concourse A to be rebuild, then Coucourse B to be removed. Can't remember what their plan with Concourse C.

Also, maybe ATA should start making plans for international flights into Mexico from HOU. That will BRING in million of more revenue for both ATA and Southwest.

Dave
 
drerx7
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Thu May 18, 2006 3:06 am

Quoting AmtrakGuy (Reply 10):
Also, maybe ATA should start making plans for international flights into Mexico from HOU. That will BRING in million of more revenue for both ATA and Southwest.

Currently the Central Concourse is complete but the other concourses still remain--so you have a hodgepodge of old and new coexisting together--I believe they went overbudget on the project which stalled it. In regards to TZ starting international flights--their is no FIS at Hobby for commercial jets at the terminal. There is one on site though as biz jets use Hobby for international flights from time to time.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
ATA767
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Thu May 18, 2006 3:10 am

Quoting AmtrakGuy (Reply 10):
and unless and until ATA can raise fares on this (and some other routes) and get the yeilds up, its unlikely that we will see more seats in the LGA-HOU market......ATA needs to sell the existing seats at higher fares.

With near full planes even in the middle of the week ATA is not selling bottom basement priced seats. You are looking at Average ticket price of $320.00 before taxes and fees for most flights, that is not too shabby. How much do you think a ticket should cost on that route anyway? Just do a search on Kayak or Expedia and you will see there are no $49.00 seats to be had.

I also think that smaller carriers can compete better against bigger carriers with less overhead they can produce better margins. According to ATA management, they have exceeded their targets in scheduled service thus far, making things look good for ATA's scheduled service.
 
Vortex
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Thu May 18, 2006 5:26 am

Two things. First, I would think ATA wants to use the larger aircraft for the charter side. Second, ATA is getting more for a ticket than CO (at least on restricted fares), but they really serve 2 different markets since IAH (and CO) is on the North side and HOU is on the South side.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Thu May 18, 2006 2:00 pm

Ok . . . quick question,

If this route is a cash cow, why the heck did AA stop serving it? Even if they stopped the HOU-AUS segment, should they have kept LGA-HOU?

For those that didn't know, AA served LGA-HOU-AUS until last month.

PJ
 
drerx7
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Thu May 18, 2006 9:16 pm

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 14):
Ok . . . quick question,

If this route is a cash cow, why the heck did AA stop serving it? Even if they stopped the HOU-AUS segment, should they have kept LGA-HOU?

For those that didn't know, AA served LGA-HOU-AUS until last month.

AA did not have the feed of Southwest flights though, nor was the route marketed well.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
dutchjet
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Thu May 18, 2006 11:50 pm

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 14):
For those that didn't know, AA served LGA-HOU-AUS until last month.

AA did drop the ball with this service - it was not marketed well and the flights lost money. AA is all about Dallas (and not about Houston), so that could have something to do with it.

Also remember that CO has tried service from EWR to Hobby on more than one occassion over the years and the service was pulled - again a money loser.

ATA has the benefit of Southwest's presence at HOU -and it is likely that the ATA-Southwest connection is the reason that the LGA-HOU flights are working as well as they are. Good for ATA, lets see if they can build this route into money maker.
 
swadispatcher
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Fri May 19, 2006 8:06 am

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 2):
I'm surprised they are not on the central concourse with Southwest.

That will change when we start their groung handling this summer down there..

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 16):
ATA has the benefit of Southwest's presence at HOU -and it is likely that the ATA-Southwest connection is the reason that the LGA-HOU flights are working as well as they are.

The LGA connection through HOU has been pretty popular with WN transfers.
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ATA767
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Fri May 19, 2006 8:21 am

Quoting Swadispatcher (Reply 17):
The LGA connection through HOU has been pretty popular with WN transfers.

Swdispatcher are you able to provide numbers?
 
AmtrakGuy
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Fri May 19, 2006 8:47 am

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 11):
Currently the Central Concourse is complete but the other concourses still remain--so you have a hodgepodge of old and new coexisting together--I believe they went overbudget on the project which stalled it.

Can anyone provide some current pics (from air)? or drawing? As I stated, the HOU website has not been updated for years.

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 11):
TZ starting international flights--their is no FIS at Hobby for commercial jets at the terminal

This is surprise. Maybe WN/TZ should put some pressure on HOU airport folks to make plans for it.

Quoting Swadispatcher (Reply 17):
The LGA connection through HOU has been pretty popular with WN transfers.

Do you think if TZ could start DCA to HOU route? Since WN is not interest in serving DCA and some major airports (yeah, I know, we have been fooled by WN few times), I would think WN would not mind having more feeding passengers.

And one last question, if I want to fly LGA to DAL, can I do this on one ticket via HOU? or it still has to be a seperate tickets under Wright Amendments?

Dave
 
drerx7
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Fri May 19, 2006 9:10 am

Quoting AmtrakGuy (Reply 19):
And one last question, if I want to fly LGA to DAL, can I do this on one ticket via HOU? or it still has to be a seperate tickets under Wright Amendments?

Nope still can't do it. Continental is the only way you can fly into Love from points outside of the W.A. because they utilize ERJs exclusively on the IAH-DAL route which allows them to sell seats beyond IAH. So if WN puts its ERJs on the Love field route from HOU then you could connect to the TZ 757 that I want to see  wink 
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
swadispatcher
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Fri May 19, 2006 10:36 am

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 20):
So if WN puts its ERJs on the Love field route from HOU

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!  Big grin
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ATA767
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Fri May 19, 2006 11:39 pm

Well it seems like it is slots at LGA that might be holding back additional HOU service. It has been confirmed that the route is doing very well even by revenue standards.
 
drerx7
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Sat May 20, 2006 12:41 am

Quoting ATA767 (Reply 22):
Well it seems like it is slots at LGA that might be holding back additional HOU service. It has been confirmed that the route is doing very well even by revenue standards.

Well...I'll keep my fingers crossed for that 757 service. What are your thoughts on other routes from Hobby?
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
ATA767
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Sat May 20, 2006 2:49 am

With this recent confirmation of the routes performance, I would expect the 757 to make guest appearance if no more slots can be had. ATA does have a few sitting around that were to be used for military charter but because of a slow down of sorts, can utilize a few if needed. This almost instant success with this route may produce more desirable destinations from HOU, like MIA, DCA,BOS and even HNL as just speculations.
 
QXatFAT
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Sat May 20, 2006 3:23 am

Good to hear that ATA is still hitting strong on things. My roomates dad flys for ATA in the left seat out of San Fran to Honolulu.
Don't Tread On Me!
 
drerx7
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Sat May 20, 2006 11:47 am

Quoting ATA767 (Reply 24):
This almost instant success with this route may produce more desirable destinations from HOU, like MIA, DCA,BOS and even HNL as just speculations.

Those are the routes I had kind of guess myself if they were to hypothetically expand; however I don't think the 752s have the range for a nonstop to HNL from HOU--not to mention the runway length may pose an issue in terms of weights as well. If they did this they would have to route it via a western station--PHX/OAK maybe. I think ATA is in a position to really do well codesharing on flights to those aforementioned cities.
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ATA767
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Sun May 21, 2006 5:03 am

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 26):
don't think the 752s have the range for a nonstop to HNL from HOU--not to mention the runway length may pose an issue in terms of weights as well.

In my mind it would be a 737-800 to Hawaii. CO is now doing 737 Hawaii service from IAH. Any of the other stations would just be to direct competition for WN and not in either airlines best interest.
 
MAH4546
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Sun May 21, 2006 5:25 am

Quoting ATA767 (Reply 27):

In my mind it would be a 737-800 to Hawaii. CO is now doing 737 Hawaii service from IAH. Any of the other stations would just be to direct competition for WN and not in either airlines best interest.

No, CO is not doing 738 service from Houston to Hawai'i. The 738 doesn't have the range, and the topic heading was incorrect.
a.
 
dutchjet
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Sun May 21, 2006 6:49 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 28):

No, CO is not doing 738 service from Houston to Hawai'i. The 738 doesn't have the range, and the topic heading was incorrect.

Thanks...amazing how things get out of control.


ATA will add flights on destinations that make sense for ATA and Southwest........LGA was important because Southwest does not serve any of the big three NYC airports, the only service to the area is out of Islip. HOU-BOS could be added, as Southwest does not serve Logan; maybe HOU-MIA, as Southwest flies to nearby FLL and PBI? To further the example, isnt ATA flying MDW-DFW, obviously a route that Southwest is not serving for several reasons including Dallas politics.

Thus, ATA can "fill in the blanks" and introduce service into markets where Southwest does not, or chooses not to have a presence.

While ATA may add a few more routes out of HOU if it make financial sense for the airlines, I do not see a huge ATA expansion out of HOU for several reasons: firstly, financial, ATA still has to be careful, secondly, ATA's fleet has shrunk and they are now operating an ambitious schedule with a smaller fleet, and lastly, Southwest is not going to get itself into a huge war with CO so that ATA can grow at HOU......SOuthwest and CO have co-existed rather peacefully in Houston for years, CO at IAH, Southwest at HOU (at a certain point, CO quietly dropped service to HOU and WN quietly closed up ops at IAH)......and whatever "unwritten gentlemen's agreement" exists between the two airlines seems to work, WN is not going to change all of that to accommodate ATA.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Sun May 21, 2006 6:56 am

I would like to see TZ add more flights out of DFW, perhaps to LGA, BOS, LAX, OAK, and more to MDW. A MDW, DFW, HOU, DFW, MDW route should work well for them.
 
swadispatcher
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Sun May 21, 2006 8:49 am

Quoting ATA767 (Reply 24):
ATA does have a few sitting around that were to be used for military charter but because of a slow down of sorts, can utilize a few if needed.

Any chance of an upgrade on the 25th from LAX-HNL for me? Big grin
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MDW22L31C
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Sun May 21, 2006 10:04 am

How is the ONT-HNL flight doing?
 
chris133
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Sun May 21, 2006 10:20 am

Quoting AmtrakGuy (Reply 19):
Do you think if TZ could start DCA to HOU route

Don't see that one happening with WN's presence in BWI and starting IAD service in OCT.
 
ATA767
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Sun May 21, 2006 1:11 pm

Loads on the ONT-HNL are 50%-60% not as strong as the 70%-80% from OAK-HNL flights. OAK-ITO is about 60ish% as well but those routes have to mature and I am sure they will over the busy summer season.
 
dutchjet
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Sun May 21, 2006 6:50 pm

Quoting ATA767 (Reply 34):
Loads on the ONT-HNL are 50%-60% not as strong as the 70%-80% from OAK-HNL flights. OAK-ITO is about 60ish% as well but those routes have to mature and I am sure they will over the busy summer season.

That is actually a very reasonable start......sometimes we do forget that routes need time to mature, build a following, and pax need time to reailze that a specific service in available. And, lesiure travel, which will affect ATA's routes to Hawaii, begins to increase about now (just before Memorial Day weekend), and builds to the summer vacation rush from late June to Labor Day. My guess is that ATA will do OK with its flights to the islands.
 
sunking737
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Sun May 21, 2006 8:21 pm

If ATA would fill in the blanks, then why did they drop MSP-MDW? They could have used this very well. Now FL is using MSP to build up flights. They are even moving from the Lindbergh Terminal to the Humphrey Terminal to make it easier to turn their flights, more room on the ramp.
Just an MSPAVGEEK
 
ATA767
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Mon May 22, 2006 1:17 am

Quoting Sunking737 (Reply 36):
If ATA would fill in the blanks, then why did they drop MSP-MDW?

Those flights did do well doe the most part but the A/C was too big to make it consistently profitable. I am still no exactly why the dropped that ball but only the big guys know.
 
WN57787
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Mon May 22, 2006 12:01 pm

Quoting Chris133 (Reply 33):
Don't see that one happening with WN's presence in BWI and starting IAD service in OCT.

when did WN say thay are starting service to IAD in Oct.


Last i heard it was fall of 2006 no date was set in stone yet.
 
swadispatcher
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Tue May 23, 2006 9:52 am

Quoting ATA767 (Reply 34):
Loads on the ONT-HNL are 50%-60% not as strong as the 70%-80% from OAK-HNL flights. OAK-ITO is about 60ish% as well but those routes have to mature and I am sure they will over the busy summer season.

I dunno.. everything's packed this Thursday! Ugh!
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ATA767
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Tue May 23, 2006 12:09 pm

It is the holiday weekend and everyone is flooding us because last minute fares are cheapest!
 
AmtrakGuy
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RE: ATA Adds More Flights

Tue May 23, 2006 12:43 pm

Quoting ATA767 (Reply 37):

737-800 may be too big...but since they were getting 737-300, I think the aircraft was the right size for MSP-MDW. I think someone in the planning department made a honest mistake to drop the route.