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Tugger
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Price Of Fishing Poles Going Up....

Thu May 18, 2006 6:06 am

Anglers pay the price of new carbon fibre jets
By David Millward, Transport Correspondent
© Copyright of Telegraph Group Limited 2006. (Filed: 15/05/2006)

The aviation industry's appetite for carbon fibre is forcing up the price of fishing rods, kayaks, bikes, skis and tennis rackets.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...eet=/news/2006/05/15/ixuknews.html

I actually just found this funny and thought I would share it. I must admit I never thought of the impact that the 787/380 would generate. Wake vortices, new repair/care paradigms, now this! Where will it end?

Tug

[Edited 2006-05-17 23:11:05]
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Goldenshield
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RE: Price Of Fishing Poles Going Up....

Thu May 18, 2006 6:08 am

Maybe they'll have to use another material like, oh, I don't know, maybe ALUMINUM?
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N908AW
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RE: Price Of Fishing Poles Going Up....

Thu May 18, 2006 7:18 am

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 1):
Maybe they'll have to use another material like, oh, I don't know, maybe ALUMINUM?

Carbon fibre catch better fish  Smile


Riiiiight.  sarcastic 
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StuckInCA
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RE: Price Of Fishing Poles Going Up....

Thu May 18, 2006 7:23 am

Impacts on the price of carbon fiber bicycles would be unfortunate. I guess the prices are already high enough that a modest increase wouldn't change the market that much. Luckily for me I tend not to have to pay for them  wink 
 
AirBuffalo
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RE: Price Of Fishing Poles Going Up....

Thu May 18, 2006 7:39 am

Interesting article ... but pretty thin on evidence.

Isnt there some kind of commodities market that tracks the price of various types of carbon fibre? Has there been a price increase? I realize that carbon fibre isn't exactly a commodity but there must be something other than conjecture and anecdotes to make the case.

i guess i'll be the first dork to point out that they mentioned "the Airbus double decker A340" ...

BS
 
lredlefsen
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RE: Price Of Fishing Poles Going Up....

Thu May 18, 2006 1:20 pm

Quoting AirBuffalo (Reply 4):
Isnt there some kind of commodities market that tracks the price of various types of carbon fibre? Has there been a price increase? I realize that carbon fibre isn't exactly a commodity but there must be something other than conjecture and anecdotes to make the case.

I'm guessing that it's not the actual carbon fiber material that's expensive, but rather, the production facilities. If true, then it sounds like the ovens that once were used to make fishing rods and other stuff are now being used to bake plane parts.
 
2H4
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RE: Price Of Fishing Poles Going Up....

Thu May 18, 2006 1:30 pm




Quoting Lredlefsen (Reply 5):
I'm guessing that it's not the actual carbon fiber material that's expensive, but rather, the production facilities.

No, it's the raw material. And it's not that the raw material is expensive in and of itself...it's simply a reflection of the incredible demand that currently exists.




2H4


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roseflyer
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RE: Price Of Fishing Poles Going Up....

Thu May 18, 2006 1:30 pm

I went to a presentation from a gentleman that owns a carbon fiber pole manufacture last week and found out learned about their struggles to get supply. There is a shortage out there. It is affecting many industries.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 3):
Impacts on the price of carbon fiber bicycles would be unfortunate. I guess the prices are already high enough that a modest increase wouldn't change the market that much.

It isn't the price that is the only factor. I have heard of one company that folded because they couldn't get carbon fiber. They had contracts to build products, but could not negotiate with carbon fibre manufacturers in order to get enough.

Quoting Lredlefsen (Reply 5):
I'm guessing that it's not the actual carbon fiber material that's expensive, but rather, the production facilities. If

It is the production. Hopefully in a few years more manufacturers can get into the market because there is high demand for carbon fiber. It isn't only airplanes too. Some huge markets are from cell phone companies and energy companies. Cell phone towers are often made of carbon fiber. Oil drilling equipment is often carbon fiber as well. Additionally more and more conventional products from bicycles to ski poles to fishing poles are being made of carbon fiber. This is all pushing up demand.
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StuckInCA
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RE: Price Of Fishing Poles Going Up....

Thu May 18, 2006 2:09 pm

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 7):
It isn't the price that is the only factor. I have heard of one company that folded because they couldn't get carbon fiber. They had contracts to build products, but could not negotiate with carbon fibre manufacturers in order to get enough.

My sources have told me that the manufacturer of my newest bike is production limited by their ability to obtain carbon fiber. If true, that's unfortunate 'cause they make really good bikes.

I'm guessing that with the increased demand by Boeing and Airbus that suppliers will step up the the plate and the shortage will not be long term.
 
2H4
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RE: Price Of Fishing Poles Going Up....

Thu May 18, 2006 2:15 pm




Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 8):
My sources have told me that the manufacturer of my newest bike is production limited by their ability to obtain carbon fiber.

The manufacturers that have been working with their carbon suppliers for a long time, and who have established a good working relationship are in the best position.

The "me-too" carbon bicycle manufacturers, who have jumped on the bandwagon more recently (ie: within the past 5 or so years) are the ones who will really suffer.

They're all limited to some degree, but in general, the longer a manufacturer has been working with their supplier(s), the better off they are.




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WingedMigrator
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RE: Price Of Fishing Poles Going Up....

Thu May 18, 2006 2:31 pm

Quoting AirBuffalo (Reply 4):
i guess i'll be the first dork to point out that they mentioned "the Airbus double decker A340" ...

The double decker, regardless of how they screwed up its designation, contains a massive quantity of carbon fiber. Even more than a 787. Of course, the 787 will sell in much greater numbers, thus making the greater contribution to the price of canoes... (the personal watercraft kind, not the airliner flap-fairing kind-- have I out-dorked you now?  Wink )
 
2H4
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RE: Price Of Fishing Poles Going Up....

Thu May 18, 2006 2:48 pm




Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 10):
Even more than a 787.

Really? I was under the impression the 787 had more carbon fiber content. Do you happen to know the percentages of carbon fiber composites of total weight by both?




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WingedMigrator
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RE: Price Of Fishing Poles Going Up....

Thu May 18, 2006 3:13 pm

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 11):
Really? I was under the impression the 787 had more carbon fiber content.

You are correct, on the basis of percentage. I was talking about plain old mass, a department in which the A380, for better or for worse, is quite well endowed.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 11):
Do you happen to know the percentages of carbon fiber composites of total weight by both?

The mass fraction percentages I have seen are 50% CFRP for the B787, and in the low twenties for the A380 (throw in a pinch of GFRP and a smattering of GLARE and you get to 25% composites). The basis for these percentages, i.e. what does 100% represent, is not always clear... it is certainly something less than Operating Empty Weight, e.g. it does not include cabin interiors, crew, etc.
 
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RE: Price Of Fishing Poles Going Up....

Thu May 18, 2006 3:21 pm

Quoting AirBuffalo (Reply 4):
Interesting article ... but pretty thin on evidence.

The Wall Street Journal had a lengthy article on exactly this subject a few months ago. CFRP prices increased by 150% in 2005, according to that article ("In Composite Race, Jets May Beat Out Bikes," 2006-01-24.)
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Tugger
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RE: Price Of Fishing Poles Going Up....

Thu May 18, 2006 3:41 pm

Now there is something that I am sure Boeing is considering in their possible decision to open a second 787 line. I always knew that they were focused on their production partners but didn't relize the critical nature of the composite sources.

I never thought that CF availability could be a factor in the success of the 787.

I introduced this thread because I found the article humorous but the more I read here the more I realize it might be a critical issue for the aviation industry as a whole for at least the next few years as EVERY industry that needs to reduce weight (read: uses fuel) begins to look to CF as a solution.

Tug
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PolymerPlane
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RE: Price Of Fishing Poles Going Up....

Thu May 18, 2006 4:44 pm

Hmm...

I do not know a lot about industry scale, since I am working mostly in lab, but I am a little bit sceptical that the demand for carbon fibre is actually the main cause of increase the price of fishing rod. Although it is made from the same basic, there are tons of different kinds and grades of carbon fiber, which means that it is not necessarily true that the same carbon fiber is used to make both products.

Secondly, I think the impact of rising oil price should be much harder on carbon fiber since the main ingredients of most polymers are synthesized from highly refined hydrocarbon, i.e. crude oil.

Finally, The actual demand right now is not high yet because the three planes that so called the cause of the jump, A380, A350 and B787 are not in production yet (granted A380 is already being produced, but it is not in full scale yet). It is possible that speculators have already enter the market and cause price to go up, but the time frame is still very far away especially for 787, that the short term gamblers should not be in the market yet

Cheers,
PP
One day there will be 100% polymer plane

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