dalneighbor
Posts: 589
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Mayor: DAL Will Not Close

Thu May 18, 2006 9:44 pm

I can't believe the Mayor of Dallas wouldn't want to export tens of thousands of jobs out of the city, close a strategic asset and competitive advantage for downtown, decimate the city's tax base, leave businesses and residents with no choice in air travel, and send one of the most admired and sought after corporations packing. Maybe she just doesn't see the value in a nice park and some single family homes. Let's start the recall petition!!!!!



http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont....ART0.State.Edition1.1daadc67.html

Miller: Love is staying
Mayor rejects closing airport; American says it should be an option

12:00 AM CDT on Thursday, May 18, 2006
By ERIC TORBENSON and EMILY RAMSHAW / The Dallas Morning News

Dallas Mayor Laura Miller on Wednesday rejected calls to close Dallas Love Field as a solution to the Wright amendment fight.

"That airport is here to stay, and we are going to make sure Southwest Airlines keeps its headquarters here while protecting the integrity of the surrounding neighborhoods," Ms. Miller said......
Wright Amendment = Federally Engineered AA Price Gouging
 
drerx7
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RE: Mayor: DAL Will Not Close

Thu May 18, 2006 9:47 pm

Glad to see the mayor of Dallas has some sense lol
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
dalneighbor
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RE: Mayor: DAL Will Not Close

Thu May 18, 2006 11:27 pm

Now that the Mayor has killed this idea, Pro-Wrighters will have to find another diversion from the real issue of competition and free markets.
Wright Amendment = Federally Engineered AA Price Gouging
 
jjbiv
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RE: Mayor: DAL Will Not Close

Thu May 18, 2006 11:31 pm

Do many WN employees live in the area immediately around DAL?

joe
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Mayor: DAL Will Not Close

Thu May 18, 2006 11:34 pm



Quoting DALNeighbor (Reply 2):
Now that the Mayor has killed this idea, Pro-Wrighters will have to find another diversion from the real issue of competition and free markets.

In other words, it will be just another day at the office for pro-wrighters.



2H4




[Edited 2006-05-18 16:34:59]
Intentionally Left Blank
 
dalneighbor
Posts: 589
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 12:04 pm

RE: Mayor: DAL Will Not Close

Thu May 18, 2006 11:38 pm

Quoting Jjbiv (Reply 3):
Do many WN employees live in the area immediately around DAL?

I've met several that live in my neighborhood.
Wright Amendment = Federally Engineered AA Price Gouging
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
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RE: Mayor: DAL Will Not Close

Thu May 18, 2006 11:58 pm

Quoting DALNeighbor (Reply 2):
Now that the Mayor has killed this idea, Pro-Wrighters will have to find another diversion from the real issue of competition and free markets.

Funny that you mention that. They now appear to be trying to link repeal and increased vehicular traffic to an increase (supposedly) in crime....

http://www.dallascrimewatch.org/questionpoll/poll.cfm

One of the other pro-Wright groups, the Committee to Protect the Children, had a press conference the other day, and I went to observe. As you can see from the photo linked below, they didn't have much of a turnout. The folks from Southwest and Friends of Love Field (as well as their signs) out numbered them by at least 2-1. (There are more pro-Repeal folks to the left, off-camera).

Aldelfa Callejo opened it up, and everyone scheduled to speak on their side pretty much tried to make the same point that it was about the noise's effect on the kids' ability to learn, and that it had nothing to do with economics. Strangely enough, one of their later speakers seemed to imply that Southwest wasn't being a good corporate citizen by steering more minority contracts their way. Maybe economics does come into play after all, just theirs, not Southwest's and any other airlines that wants to serve Love.

Callejo opened it up to questions, and Bill Foster (from Friends of Love Field; the gent in the photo wearing the suit and holding the FOLF sign) took Callejo's noise claims to task, saying that the Dean of students at the school behind us (Rusk) has said that noise wasn't the disturbing issue that CTPTC was making it out to be, and that lots of money had been spent in the past soundproofing the schools. Caelljo apparently didn't like the question, and the soundproofing facts, and interrupted him by saying that the Dean wasn't a noise expert (as if he even had to be to offer an acedotal opinion). Foster kept on, and Callejo asked if there were any other questions from the media "and not you" (Foster). There were none, and Callejo abruptly ended the press conference.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1.../05162006CTPTCpressconference4.jpg

Now that Mayor Miller has said that Love isn't going anywhere, it should be interesting to see what these pro-Wright groups do now. Friends of mine in Grapevine and the other burbs around DFW have told me that Stop-And-Think has sent out 5 different "FUD-gram" mailers in the last few weeks, so maybe Miller's decision means even more mailers...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
chris133
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RE: Mayor: DAL Will Not Close

Fri May 19, 2006 4:17 am

Quoting Jjbiv (Reply 3):
Do many WN employees live in the area immediately around DAL?

To answer this question, Yes.
 
dalneighbor
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RE: Mayor: DAL Will Not Close

Fri May 19, 2006 4:19 am

Nebraska is moving ahead with its exemption to Wright.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...s/051906dnmetneblove.53f14bbf.html

Bill would open Love flights to Nebraska

01:58 PM CDT on Thursday, May 18, 2006
By ROBERT DODGE / The Dallas Morning News

WASHINGTON – All three of Nebraska’s congressmen introduced legislation Thursday in the House that would make Nebraska the 10th state that can be served by commercial flights from Dallas Love Field.

The legislation is aimed at initiating service at lower fares between Omaha’s Eppley Airfield and Love Field.

“The Wright amendment is an outdated piece of legislation which decreases competition and keeps Nebraskans from getting the lowest possible airfares,” said Rep. Jeff Fortenberry, R-Neb.

The other Nebraska cosponsors are Republican Reps. Lee Terry and Tom Osborne.

The bill marks the first action on Capitol Hill since March, when the North Texas congressional delegation declared a moratorium on legislative action. Their stand-down was followed by letters from the mayors to members of Congress asking for time to work out a local compromise on Wright.

With the mayors facing a June 14 deadline set by Dallas, the action by the Nebraska lawmakers demonstrates continuing interest from lawmakers elsewhere who want air service from Love Field.

Rep. Jeb Hensarling, R-Dallas, said the latest legislative proposal shows that lawmakers in other states are taking note of the drop in air fares between Love Field and cities in Missouri. Missouri became the ninth state where flights are permissible last year, after Sen. Christopher “Kit” Bond, R-Mo, added a provision to a spending bill.

Both Southwest Airlines Co. and American Airlines Inc. subsequently launched low-fare service from Love Field. “They saw what happened to air fares between Dallas and Kansas City and St. Louis,” Mr. Hensarling said.....
Wright Amendment = Federally Engineered AA Price Gouging
 
SPREE34
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RE: Mayor: DAL Will Not Close

Fri May 19, 2006 5:09 am

Quoting DALNeighbor (Reply 8):
WASHINGTON – All three of Nebraska’s congressmen introduced legislation Thursday in the House that would make Nebraska the 10th state that can be served by commercial flights from Dallas Love Field.

Worst case scenario, this is how the other states will do it. It may take a while, but Wright will go. Or as in this example, be gutted out.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
ouboy79
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RE: Mayor: DAL Will Not Close

Fri May 19, 2006 6:36 am

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 9):
Worst case scenario, this is how the other states will do it. It may take a while, but Wright will go. Or as in this example, be gutted out.

Actually this is probably the best case. I'm all for a gradual pull down of Wright...region by region. However, if things will be pulled down - something MUST be done with the terminal. I flew through there last week for the first time and it was not inviting at all.

Of course lets look at the whole picture...the Wright goes away, Southwest isn't going to start nonstop flights to every where overnight. People will continue to get their Advantage miles on American, and those that fly LUV will continue to do that. The overall impact is being dramatized just a "bit."
 
ScottB
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RE: Mayor: DAL Will Not Close

Fri May 19, 2006 7:29 am

Quoting Ouboy79 (Reply 10):
However, if things will be pulled down - something MUST be done with the terminal. I flew through there last week for the first time and it was not inviting at all.

Actually, perhaps the best thing to do is to NOT renovate the terminal aside from what would need to be done to accommodate any additional airlines choosing to serve DAL. We hear all these arguments about how expanded service from DAL will "weaken" DFW; perhaps the availability of better quality facilities at DFW is a good way to encourage airlines to maintain their operations at that airport.

Quoting Ouboy79 (Reply 10):
Of course lets look at the whole picture...the Wright goes away, Southwest isn't going to start nonstop flights to every where overnight. People will continue to get their Advantage miles on American, and those that fly LUV will continue to do that. The overall impact is being dramatized just a "bit."

You don't say! The big issue is that AA doesn't want to lose their steep last-minute fare premium to/from DFW, and that's what's driving all of these astroturf groups. The last-minute OMA-DFW fare is $684 round-trip; two-stepping through STL on Southwest is a relative bargain at $448 (and it would probably be around $100 less if you didn't have to purchase two tickets).

Having the Congressmen from Nebraska introduce their own bill to open up service to their state is certainly an interesting development; I would not be surprised to see Congressmen from other states jumping on the bandwagon in short order...
 
n471wn
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RE: Mayor: DAL Will Not Close

Fri May 19, 2006 7:31 am

AA's Arpey is looking more and more like the idiot Bob Crandall (who as CEO of AA 35 years ago said that SWA would not survive a year as they did not have assigned seating and did not serve food) in his remarks about SWA and closing Love. My but Arpey is just so out of touch---saying close Love just plays into SWA's hands which I personally like but what a stupid strategy....major tactical and strategic error....wow
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Mayor: DAL Will Not Close

Fri May 19, 2006 7:45 am

Quoting Dbba (Reply 12):
My but Arpey is just so out of touch---saying close Love just plays into SWA's hands which I personally like but what a stupid strategy....major tactical and strategic error....wow

Speaking of which, Mayor Miller's statement on Love staying open and not going anywhere sure puts Cong. Eddie Bernice Johnson in an interesting spot. She's the one that vowed to introduce legislation to close Love (it's in her district) if Wright was repealed, and now her position is squarely at odds with Mayor Miller's... Can't wait to hear EBJ's reaction to Miller's statements...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
sccutler
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RE: Mayor: DAL Will Not Close

Fri May 19, 2006 9:44 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 13):
Speaking of which, Mayor Miller's statement on Love staying open and not going anywhere sure puts Cong. Eddie Bernice Johnson in an interesting spot. She's the one that vowed to introduce legislation to close Love (it's in her district) if Wright was repealed, and now her position is squarely at odds with Mayor Miller's... Can't wait to hear EBJ's reaction to Miller's statements...

Opie, Ms. Johnson, Member of Congress is agonizingly transparent in her bias; she holds a substantial stake in the Hudson News bookstores at DFW, and derives substantial personal gain from increased traffic at DFW. That she would even consider closing Love, much less proposing its closure shows just how out of touch with her constituents' interests she is. Love Field is by far the largest single source of employment in her district.

===

By the way, for those who suggest that Loves primary purpose is serving airliners, I suggest that you ... well ... that you Stop, and Think.

Today, I spent some considerable time reviewing a contract related to the construction of a very substantial new aircraft maintenance facility being built at DAL by a major aircraft manufacturer (think: who's the guy who drops the bombs again?). This facility, alone, will generate tens of millions in business (and create high-paying jobs associated therewith) per year, and will do so for many years to come.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Mayor: DAL Will Not Close

Fri May 19, 2006 9:58 am

Quoting SCCutler (Reply 14):
Ms. Johnson, Member of Congress is agonizingly transparent in her bias; she holds a substantial stake in the Hudson News bookstores at DFW, and derives substantial personal gain from increased traffic at DFW.

I think I recall reading somewhere that she also has some stake in the Love Field Hudsons as well. It all was in a "blind" trust, but it appears everybody under the sun knows about it.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
iowaman
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RE: Mayor: DAL Will Not Close

Fri May 19, 2006 10:11 am

Quoting DALNeighbor (Reply 8):
WASHINGTON – All three of Nebraska’s congressmen introduced legislation Thursday in the House that would make Nebraska the 10th state that can be served by commercial flights from Dallas Love Field.

For some reason I don't really see WN starting DAL-OMA, but maybe so. I would be more afraid of AA getting pissed off at Nebraska and pulling mainline on DFW-OMA.
 
DLKAPA
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RE: Mayor: DAL Will Not Close

Fri May 19, 2006 10:29 am

Quoting DALNeighbor (Reply 2):
Now that the Mayor has killed this idea, Pro-Wrighters will have to find another diversion from the real issue of competition and free markets.

WN will eat puppies if Wright is repealed.

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 6):
he Committee to Protect the Children,

They're that group of private citizens Mike Boyd was talking about...the one that's getting funds from AA. go figure.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
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par13del
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RE: Mayor: DAL Will Not Close

Fri May 19, 2006 10:48 am

Quoting Iowaman
"For some reason I don't really see WN starting DAL-OMA, but maybe so. I would be more afraid of AA getting pissed off at Nebraska and pulling mainline on DFW-OMA."

If AA did that it would be a political move, so my question to the WN supporters / emps. would be : Would WN then start service DAL-OMA just to show the politicians who the bad guy really is?

I have a hard time believing AA would do that, unless they intend to pull their Missou flights as well, same difference right?
 
stirling
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RE: Mayor: DAL Will Not Close

Fri May 19, 2006 11:22 am

Whatever happened to the impending legislation from Tennessee?
I seem to remember some AA arm-twisting...an offer TN could not refuse...like the guarantee of not having to wake up in the middle of the night to find a dead horse in bed with you.....as long as WN came no closer than Little Rock.
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dalneighbor
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RE: Mayor: DAL Will Not Close

Fri May 19, 2006 11:42 am

Quoting SCCutler (Reply 14):
Opie, Ms. Johnson, Member of Congress is agonizingly transparent in her bias; she holds a substantial stake in the Hudson News bookstores at DFW, and derives substantial personal gain from increased traffic at DFW. That she would even consider closing Love, much less proposing its closure shows just how out of touch with her constituents' interests she is. Love Field is by far the largest single source of employment in her district.

The airport folks are pretty excited about Bombardier's finishing facility going in right next to the Gulfstream assembly facility. Oh but, there aren't any jobs at DAL. Ft. Worth is still smarting from Galaxy's acquisition by Gulfstream and subsequent closing of it's AFW facility and consolidation at DAL.
Wright Amendment = Federally Engineered AA Price Gouging
 
HPLASOps
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RE: Mayor: DAL Will Not Close

Fri May 19, 2006 12:26 pm

Wow, y'all sure do like to poor gas on the fire. Here we go again.....

Quoting DALNeighbor (Reply 2):
Now that the Mayor has killed this idea, Pro-Wrighters will have to find another diversion from the real issue of competition and free markets.

So just because the mayor, a woman who every pro-repealer has bashed repeatedly in this forum, has stated her INTENTION (not an a law or decision, an intention!) with regards to DAL, we can call this debate over, you win and you can eat your cake. I've never seen so much celebrating a victory when there is still a long way to go.
"Just because I know how to get off a freeway doesn't mean I know how to get back on!" - Retard Joe
 
wjcandee
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Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: Mayor: DAL Will Not Close

Fri May 19, 2006 1:12 pm

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 21):
So just because the mayor, a woman who every pro-repealer has bashed repeatedly in this forum, has stated her INTENTION

Well, remember that Congress has some sort of dufy informal pact with the cities that it won't act unless and until the cities and the airlines have a chance to sort it out. I think someone said something about June being a deadline. So what the mayors think actually has some importance.
 
HPLASOps
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Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 6:13 pm

RE: Mayor: DAL Will Not Close

Fri May 19, 2006 1:25 pm

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 22):
So what the mayors think actually has some importance.

True, but the mayor's opinion is only one of many in this debate, and just because she believes x will happen doesn't mean it will. This is just a filler thread.
"Just because I know how to get off a freeway doesn't mean I know how to get back on!" - Retard Joe
 
wjcandee
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RE: Mayor: DAL Will Not Close

Fri May 19, 2006 1:32 pm

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 23):
just because she believes x will happen doesn't mean it will.

Agreed. It just seemed to me that she was publicly stating where the line was that wouldn't be crossed in negotiations. That presumably reflects her marching orders for negotiations. What Congress or her City Council does (particularly in a city like Dallas that uses the City Manager form of government -- at least it used to) is of course completely out of her hands.
 
Caspian27
Posts: 190
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RE: Mayor: DAL Will Not Close

Fri May 19, 2006 2:22 pm

It's interesting to me how basically through a loophole in the system WN has been able to flourish, since all the cities and airlines at the time agreed to move all their ops to DFW and restrict Love to GA and MX. Airports are expensive to build so naturally the cities of Dallas and Ft. Worth wanted passengers flying through DFW to collect the passenger and landing fees. Makes DEN look smart to completely close Stapleton to avoid this problem (although I miss Stapleton...first airport I ever flew out of).

It's clear though that now something has to be done to fix this. Many large metro areas have multiple airports serving commercial traffic. LA, NY, Houston, Miami. The city of Phoenix has now decided to help finance IWA (Williams Gateway Airport) about 26 miles SE of PHX in East Mesa to act as a reliever airport for PHX, which means the decisions will be on a regional level. Seems like something like this could work well for the Dallas area. If anyone could ever get anyone else to budge on anything.

One thing I don't get...and maybe Wjcandee can shed somelight on this, is what the Shelby ammendments purpose is...ie, why can WN operate 73's with more than 56 pax out of DAL but other carriers are limited to planes with 56 seats or less and under 300k lbs? And would this restriction be removed wit the Wright amendment should it go the way of the Dodo.

C27
Meanwhile, somewhere 35,000 ft above your head...
 
HPLASOps
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RE: Mayor: DAL Will Not Close

Fri May 19, 2006 2:45 pm

Quoting Caspian27 (Reply 25):
why can WN operate 73's with more than 56 pax out of DAL but other carriers are limited to planes with 56 seats or less and under 300k lbs?

Slight misread on the provisions of the rule. Any carrier can fly 56 seaters anywhere in the country, even WN out of DAL. However, WN chooses to use 137 seaters and therefore are restricted to Texas and neighbors plus Shelby (AL, MS) and Bond (MO).
"Just because I know how to get off a freeway doesn't mean I know how to get back on!" - Retard Joe
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Mayor: DAL Will Not Close

Fri May 19, 2006 3:15 pm

Quoting Caspian27 (Reply 25):
One thing I don't get...and maybe Wjcandee can shed somelight on this, is what the Shelby ammendments purpose is...ie, why can WN operate 73's with more than 56 pax out of DAL but other carriers are limited to planes with 56 seats or less and under 300k lbs? And would this restriction be removed wit the Wright amendment should it go the way of the Dodo.

All the Shelby Amendment did was to add KS, MS and AL to the list of states that could be served from DAL. While Southwest opened JAN and BHM, it doesn't (yet) serve the routes with non-stops, but by virtue of Shelby, is able to sell through/connecting tickets for service through HOU.

Southwest, or any other airline, could, today, yank seats out of an aircraft so that 56 remained, and then fly anywhere, without restriction, but that skews the economics. I don't know where you got the 300,000 lbs figure (although I have to note that used to be the threshold of an aircraft being classified as a "heavy" for wake turbulence purposes), but I can't see it as relevant as far as Wright is concerned...

Quoting Caspian27 (Reply 25):
It's interesting to me how basically through a loophole in the system WN has been able to flourish, since all the cities and airlines at the time agreed to move all their ops to DFW and restrict Love to GA and MX.

That's not quite correct..

The 1968 Bond paperwork mentions each city endeavoring to close their airports (DAL and GSW) to commerical traffic "if legally permissible". Of course, it ended up not being "legally permissible" and while you may think it a "loophole", the authors of the Bond paperwork apparently thought the legality issue was questionable by virtue of the very inclusion of the "if legally permissible" wording to begin with. Hard to call it a "loophole" if it was something they expected the possibility of not being legal.

Southwest was never a signatory to the agreement (like all the other airlines were) to move to DFW, mainly because Southwest was tied up in court didn't exist.

As far as Southwest "flourishing" is concerned, it's done so largely away from DAL. Expansion started out west in 1982, and has continued to the present, but in places that can't get DAL service due to Wright. Of all of Southwest's destinations, about 75% of them are not serviceable from DAL. There are those out there that would have you believe that the "monopoly" that Southwest had at Love (by default, mind you) has been the sole driver of Southwest profits over the years, but it's actually the other way around. Especially since 9/11, short-haul traffic at Love (the only kind Southwest can offer under Wright) is down, since the auto is a more viable competitor to some. The reality is that Southwest has prospered in spite of Wright, not because of it.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
texan
Posts: 4059
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 2:23 am

RE: Mayor: DAL Will Not Close

Fri May 19, 2006 9:11 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 11):
Having the Congressmen from Nebraska introduce their own bill to open up service to their state is certainly an interesting development; I would not be surprised to see Congressmen from other states jumping on the bandwagon in short order...

Tennessee, Colorado, Arizona, and Nevada are the states I hear over and over again as having their Congressmen and women considering similar bills. Other delegations supposedly considering it include Virginia, Ohio, Kentucky, and California. Word I'm hearing is that 2-3 Congressional delegations will attempt to exempt their states by the end of the year, in addition to a full repeal being offered prior to the end of term (1st week of January 2007).

Quoting SCCutler (Reply 14):
By the way, for those who suggest that Loves primary purpose is serving airliners, I suggest that you ... well ... that you Stop, and Think

 checkmark 

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 16):
For some reason I don't really see WN starting DAL-OMA

True. Not enough O&D. But they would be able to sell tickets one stop through STL.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 19):
Whatever happened to the impending legislation from Tennessee?

Still on the table, have not heard anything firm. AA bought some time by making a deal with the Tennessee delegation to dramatically reduce fares between BNA and DFW for a trial period in return for the delegation not seeking legislation to exempt Tennessee during the past legislative session.

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 26):
are restricted to Texas and neighbors plus Shelby (AL, MS) and Bond (MO).

I cannot believe you forgot Kansas! The Kansas delegation threw themselves into the bill in an attempt to gain WN service to ICT.

Anyway, hope that sheds a little light.

Texan
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
 
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par13del
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RE: Mayor: DAL Will Not Close

Fri May 19, 2006 9:37 pm

Quoting Texan Reply 28
"Still on the table, have not heard anything firm. AA bought some time by making a deal with the Tennessee delegation to dramatically reduce fares between BNA and DFW for a trial period in return for the delegation not seeking legislation to exempt Tennessee during the past legislative session"

Is this legal? I'm not trying to be funny or start any kind of flame war, but if AA is not the only carrier flying routes into the state, would that not be "dumping" or something like that, what about "campaign finance reform" or does that only apply during election season?

Yes any carrier can reduce prices to compete, but if they are going to the extent fo talking with the politician's and offering lower fares for votes, is that possible?

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