DFW13L
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Must Have Been An Interesting Flight-EWR YYT

Fri May 19, 2006 7:09 am

Last night's Continental Express 2527 EWR-YYT tried an approach and initially diverted all the way back to YHZ, which is over 500 miles. It ended up diverting to YJT which is still over 250 miles. The flight is on the EMB 145XR, but the EWR-YYT leg is 1150 miles. Does it actually have the range to fly 1650 miles, which would be the flight to YYT, missed approach, and then to YHZ? I checked the weather and it was 100' ceiling with 1/4 mile vis, so it went below minimums on the way out there.

And if so, do they actually carry that much fuel, if they have the range? If so, I would think there are some serious weight restrictions on the flight.



For those who are not familiar with where YYT is, it's the very edge of NF, and on the map it's to the far right where the loop is. The loop is from the missed approach. It first diverted toward YHZ and then amended that to YJT, so that's why they both show up on the flight aware map. I've always been intrigued with this flight.
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roseflyer
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RE: Must Have Been An Interesting Flight-EWR YYT

Fri May 19, 2006 7:34 am

Quoting DFW13L (Thread starter):
The flight is on the EMB 145XR, but the EWR-YYT leg is 1150 miles. Does it actually have the range to fly 1650 miles, which would be the flight to YYT, missed approach, and then to YHZ? I checked the weather and it was 100' ceiling with 1/4 mile vis, so it went below minimums on the way out there.

Well when the weather is marginal, the plane has to have an alternate filed on its flight path. There are not that many alternates way out there, so it is possible that YHZ was listed as the alternate, which means that the plane would be required to have enough fuel to fly back to YHZ. I don't know anything specific about this incident, but that does seem like a very long diversion. Could there have been fuel concerns that mandated them flying to YJT instead? Stephenville is a city of only 7,000 people, and obviously would not be a choice for a diversion unless absolutely necessary.
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DFW13L
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RE: Must Have Been An Interesting Flight-EWR YYT

Fri May 19, 2006 7:36 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 1):
. Could there have been fuel concerns that mandated them flying to YJT instead? Stephenville is a city of only 7,000 people, and obviously would not be a choice for a diversion unless absolutely necessary.

That's what I was thinking too. I don't know anything about Stephenville, but was thinking they initially chose YHZ because it is a Continental Express station.
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roseflyer
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RE: Must Have Been An Interesting Flight-EWR YYT

Fri May 19, 2006 7:54 am

Stephenville use to be a US Air Force base that was built during WWII. It has a big runway that isn't used much anymore. It's 10,000ft runway is useful for cases like this, but I feel sorry for the Continental people that got stuck in the middle of no where. In 1990 the airport was further designated for alternate use, fueling only, by international scheduled air transport and for international general aviation regular use. In recent years, Stephenville has become a favorite technical stop for international flights on route to Europe. It's in the middle of no where in a tiny city, but it can handle pretty much any airplane including widebodies.

[Edited 2006-05-19 00:56:49]
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romeomike
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RE: Must Have Been An Interesting Flight-EWR YYT

Fri May 19, 2006 1:12 pm

You just have to make sure you phone ahead and arrange fuel, cause they don't keep much on hand  Wink

Gander is a better option for diversions, but likely in this case was experiencing the same weather as YYT.
 
turnit56N
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RE: Must Have Been An Interesting Flight-EWR YYT

Fri May 19, 2006 3:08 pm

If YHZ was filed as the flight's alternate, the plane would have carried enough fuel to make it from EWR to YYT to YHZ plus reserve, and probably some on top of that. Embraer actually lists the 145XR's range as 2,000 nm. While that might be pushing it on a fully loaded aircraft, I can assure you that 1,600 nm is within the XR's range. If I recall correctly, XJT routinely flies scheduled flights that are in the 1,500 nm range (IAH-BOI). Maybe one of the XJT people here can confirm that.

While I don't have any charts on the XR, rough calculations using round numbers seem to indicate that the flight probably wouldn't be weight restricted. The ERJ 145XR has some pretty amazing capabilities.
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DFW13L
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RE: Must Have Been An Interesting Flight-EWR YYT

Sat May 20, 2006 12:56 pm

I'm more familiar with the American Eagle 145, and we end up fuel stopping RDU-AUS whenever there are strong headwinds, so I'm just not used to a 145 having that kind of range. An alternate 500 miles away blows my mind.
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turnit56N
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RE: Must Have Been An Interesting Flight-EWR YYT

Sun May 21, 2006 5:04 am

Again, someone from XJT may be able to confirm this, but I heard they had some kind of in depth weight and balance system that allows them to carry more weight, and hence more fuel, on their aircraft than most 145 operators. I also don't think you could do anything like that on a regular 145 without the XR's extra tank.
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ramper@iah
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RE: Must Have Been An Interesting Flight-EWR YYT

Sun May 21, 2006 5:43 am

The EMB-145XR is by far the most capable 50 seat jet airliner out there. To answer the original question - yes, the aircraft has the range to fly from ERW to YYT and use YHZ as an alternate. With full tanks and a max payload a flight origin to destination of 1,800 miles is possible with reserves available for an alternate and 45 minutes of flying thereafter. In other words, it can remain airborne for well over five hours and land with an acceptable amount of fuel.
 
yow
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RE: Must Have Been An Interesting Flight-EWR YYT

Sun May 21, 2006 9:52 pm

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 1):
. Could there have been fuel concerns that mandated them flying to YJT instead? Stephenville is a city of only 7,000 people, and obviously would not be a choice for a diversion unless absolutely necessary.

As was mentioned, YJT has a 10,000 runway. Provincial Airlines plus summer charters are about the only flights YJT sees nowadays. YJT is an alternate for Gander.
 
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longhauler
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RE: Must Have Been An Interesting Flight-EWR YYT

Sun May 21, 2006 11:43 pm

Quoting DFW13L (Thread starter):
I checked the weather and it was 100' ceiling with 1/4 mile vis, so it went below minimums on the way out there.

Runway 29 at YYT is CAT II capable, and quite common for those of us that regularly fly in there. Is Continental Express not CAT II capable?

Also, it is quite common to be fogged in ... and ... with 50 knot winds (defies logic, huh?) ... and ... have moderate turbulence on short final. Not for the faint of heart!

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jetskipper
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RE: Must Have Been An Interesting Flight-EWR YYT

Tue May 23, 2006 12:46 am

All XJT aircraft and crew are CAT II certified. All we know however is that the visibility was 1/4 sm, the RVR may have been below the CAT II minimums for the approach, or the aircraft could have had an MEL that prevented the operation of CAT II approaches.
 
bwaflyer
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RE: Must Have Been An Interesting Flight-EWR YYT

Tue May 23, 2006 4:10 am

One of Astraeus' 737-700s operating LGW-YDF (Deer Lake) diverted into Stephenville due to weather at Deer Lake during the winter.