jpj777
Posts: 29
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Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Fri May 19, 2006 7:48 am

Did not see this posted yet (yes I searched) Interesting happinings at McCarren today with Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers. KLAS TV Website.....
http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=4922930
 
cwldude
Posts: 573
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RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Fri May 19, 2006 8:05 am

This is obviously a matter which needs addressing asap, but I don't think the actions they've taken are very appropriate, the last thing I'd want to see before I'm going to fly out of an airport, is an Air Traffic Controller telling me he doesn't believe the job he's doing is safe enough!

Hope it gets sorted out though, I'm due to be flying there in November so don't wanna be worrying about this!
Thomson Airways - The UKs premier charter airline // now flown : BY -AA -AJ -AE -AT; OO -AX -AU -RA -BG; BRIG; OBYD
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Fri May 19, 2006 8:20 am

It isn't just at LAS, it is everywhere, including the next busy airport just 400 miles north at SLC.
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=269096
While not militant as the PATCO people were back in '81, none the less, controllers want more from the FAA to do their jobs.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
iowaman
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RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Fri May 19, 2006 8:24 am

Not good. LAS is already a very busy airport, and definitely needs the full staffing. Today they were strained more than normal I would bet, they switched runways a couple times and it took a while to get caught back up. Also, I don't understand in Vegas why they don't use the two sets of parallels better, they could be much more efficent.
 
jpj777
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 3:18 pm

RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Fri May 19, 2006 8:41 am

The runways are used in parallel, 90% of the time takeoff's are on 25R and landings are on 25L and also parallel takeoff's and landings on 19L & 19R, the only holdup is planes have to wait for takeoff on 25R if a plane is taking off on 19L-R (don't know which 19 is for which) and visa versa 19L-R planes hold while 25's are taking off. They only switch runway directions when we get wierd weather like today and yesterday with wind in from the east going west and pop-up thunderstorms which we had again today.
 
Cadet57
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RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Fri May 19, 2006 8:51 am

"Passenger safety is forcing air traffic controllers at McCarran International Airport to hand out leaflets with a warning to travelers. Today, air traffic controllers are handing out leaflets to passengers at McCarran. "


What could probably be called one of the worst openings in a news story ever... Thats so awkward to read...
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
phelpsie87
Posts: 259
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RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Fri May 19, 2006 9:17 am

and this is one reason why i am a ATC student...

not to change the subject, but while i was at MSP last week, i saw 2 NWA mechanics complaining. normally i wouldn't find it funny, but it was like 40 degrees out and the jackets they were wearing to keep warm have NWA written all over them. personally, i would have a hard time complaining about the company that is keeping me from getting sick.
 
flymia
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RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Fri May 19, 2006 10:25 am

The US government needs to pay controllers decent money. Controllers should not be making below $40,000 or anything like that. If controllers made a good salary I would think about becoming one. Its not exactly an easy job and they deserve some money, if there salaries were a little higher than maybe some more people would think about going into the job, more educated people I say, Not saying controllers are not educated but a college degree is not needed. So why would someone who went to four years of college want to become ATC and make little money when they can get a more "normal" job and make more money.
ATC deserve money just like pilots do, but pilots fly for private companies ATC works for the government, the government can raise salaries, not saying by 50% here just a decent salary for someone with a job has hard as an ATC has.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
hawk44
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RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Fri May 19, 2006 10:46 am

Quoting Phelpsie87 (Reply 6):
it was like 40 degrees out and the jackets they were wearing to keep warm have NWA written all over them. personally, i would have a hard time complaining about the company that is keeping me from getting sick.

It's called a uniform which most employees pay for, I think NW might have a problem with workers walking around in name brand clothing at work.

Hawk44
Never under estimate the power of US
 
siromega
Posts: 564
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RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passeng

Fri May 19, 2006 10:59 am

I saw this on the news tonight too. The interesting statistic is that last year they had 14 incidents (I believe our own HAL was involved in one of them). Before the latest boom we've had, it was zero in a year.

LAS is 5th in the world on the list of most operations per year (2005) and grew by 11% over last year (and its been that way for the past 3 years or so). They need more ATCers. They seem to be keeping up with TSA staff at the security checkpoint (mostly), I cant see why they cant get more guys (and gals) in the tower.
 
vegasplanes
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RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Fri May 19, 2006 12:51 pm

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 7):
The US government needs to pay controllers decent money. Controllers should not be making below $40,000

Having been in the ground control tower at LAS (run by Clark County DOA), from what I have been told the FAA controllers at LAS average close to six figures or more, I do not recall if starting pay was mentioned, but I doubt it would be below $ 40,000/yr for a controller in a FAA tower at a major airport such as LAS. The ground control guys stated they make in the $ 70,000-85,000 area. I think your numbers may be a bit off, the $ 40,000/yr might be starting pay for a controller at a place like IGM.  Wink

Also from the tour and discussion with LAS ground control, they seem to hire a lot of ex- Air Force guys, for gorund control and FAA, not sure if it is do to proximity with Nellis AFB or what.
 
Caspian27
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:48 am

RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Fri May 19, 2006 1:52 pm

Quoting Vegasplanes (Reply 10):
I doubt it would be below $ 40,000/yr for a controller in a FAA tower at a major airport such as LAS. The ground control guys stated they make in the $ 70,000-85,000 area.



Quoting Vegasplanes (Reply 10):
Also from the tour and discussion with LAS ground control, they seem to hire a lot of ex- Air Force guys, for gorund control and FAA, not sure if it is do to proximity with Nellis AFB or what.

From the conversations that I have had with controllers and tours of ABQ Center and Approach, and several towers it seems that most controllers make fairly decent money. It also seems to be better at actual FAA staffed airports than the ones that are contracted out.

Also in my experience alot of them are ex-military, so it doesn't seem to be just in Vegas and the proximity to Nellis.

C27
Meanwhile, somewhere 35,000 ft above your head...
 
FlyDeltaJets
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RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Fri May 19, 2006 4:35 pm

LAS is not the only airport with ATC woes. Remember back in Feb after that big storm in NYC. How the forum was going steady about the JFK tower and its two controllers for the PM rush after a major snow storm. Planes were being sent back to their gates because they were runnig below thier tolerances.
The only valid opinions are those based in facts
 
HAL
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RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Fri May 19, 2006 4:51 pm

Quoting SirOmega (Reply 9):
The interesting statistic is that last year they had 14 incidents (I believe our own HAL was involved in one of them). Before the latest boom we've had, it was zero in a year.

Yep! And my incident was with a fully staffed tower, yet the controller still cleared us to takeoff when he had already cleared another plane to cross our runway.

Do they need to remain fully staffed? Absolutely.
Does there need to be even more checks and procedures to prevent potential accidents like mine? Yes!
Will that cause delays? Most certainly yes.
Can we withstand even a slight decrease in safety? Hell no!

BTW, on a year-to-year basis (i.e. 5th year pilot vs. 5th year ATC controller), the controllers make more money than almost any pilot out there. I don't have a problem with that because they make the same sort of continuous split-second life-saving decisions that pilots do, and they do it for more hours each day, and handle more people's lives each day than we do. They are paid well, and deserve it.

HAL

[Edited 2006-05-19 09:52:33]
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
jbmflyer
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:50 am

RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Fri May 19, 2006 7:55 pm

When you graduate from the Oklahoma City academy as an AG or Academy Graduate, you are already getting paid above $40,000. Then you go through the three phases of training based on the facility you are at. This can take between 2-5 years (depending if you are at a smaller or larger facility). The pay is based on the size of the facility from a level 1 to a level 12 (NY TRACON, ATL etc). The pay you max out at when you work at a level 12 when you reach CPC status (certified professional controller) can be close to $200,000 or more. You get paid time and a half for all work after 6 pm and double for all holidays. Then you get up to 18% (i believe) tagged onto your salary for locality pay to offset the cost of living. This raises your salary even more. The pay controllers recieve grossly outdoes any pay for any other FAA job. The pay cut in my mind is justified, they should get something more in line with other government jobs. They signed this pay contract during an economic upturn, now it is not the same situation. At the same time, when the FAA offered them a pay package the Controllers Union asked for $600 million more per year for pay for their controllers..........its rediculous.


just my two cents
A pilots heart, mind and soul stuck in a 8-5 bankers chair.............
 
jetboy757
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 8:37 pm

RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passeng

Fri May 19, 2006 8:52 pm

I think a lot of people have the pay scales wrong. I'm currently an ATC student, and we were informed that a level 12 facility starts at around $95,000, and caps out at about $130,000. Now with the new FAA pay cut, the bottom of a level 12 would be around $70,000, and the top would be $95,000. Also, once out of OKC, you are not payed $40,000+. We were told it's around $20,000. This information can be found on the FAA website.

Also, I don't think anyone can really say that Controller's are over paid unless you've actually tried the job yourself, and have gone through all the training, all the testing, all the pressure of high scores and random placement. Knowing that only 13 controllers were hired last year, and hearing that your pay is going to be cut before you even start working. I'm in the 4 year degree program, and i'm working my ass off no matter what the pay.

[Edited 2006-05-19 14:11:32]
 
goaliemn
Posts: 320
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:46 pm

RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Fri May 19, 2006 9:22 pm

Quoting Hawk44 (Reply 8):
It's called a uniform which most employees pay for, I think NW might have a problem with workers walking around in name brand clothing at work.

They're not working at nw anymore.. they're on "strike" and replacement workers are doing their job.
 
swaopsusafatc
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:20 pm

RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Fri May 19, 2006 10:19 pm

I am one of many USAF air traffic controllers that are waiting for their enlistment to be up so we can take a job with the FAA. I have 4 friends that are out working minimum wage jobs waiting for the FAA to start hiring again. It is amazing to work next to someone doing the same job in the same airspace for 2-3 times the money you are making.

For the many ATC students- wait till you start working real aircraft and not a simulator. Completely different. The sim gives you an idea but once you are in front of the scope and talking to real pilots in real weather you will only have a slight idea of what it takes. I would say about 20% of controllers that make it through school wash out after 3 months or less of live training. Leave the ego at the door and learn, take advice and study study study!!
 
fspilot747
Posts: 3455
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 1999 2:58 am

RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Fri May 19, 2006 11:46 pm

Quoting Jbmflyer (Reply 14):
The pay cut in my mind is justified, they should get something more in line with other government jobs.

Great we have yuppie MBA students in here, who only care about cutting costs and f*cking everybody else. You are not qualified to comment on another person's salary unless you know the first thing about the job.
 
skymileman
Posts: 577
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2001 2:32 am

RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Sat May 20, 2006 12:18 am

Actually, they have even run the ads on TV here in Billings.
 
phelpsie87
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:41 pm

RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Sat May 20, 2006 1:35 am

Quoting Goaliemn (Reply 16):
Quoting Hawk44 (Reply 8):
It's called a uniform which most employees pay for, I think NW might have a problem with workers walking around in name brand clothing at work.

They're not working at nw anymore.. they're on "strike" and replacement workers are doing their job.

Which is why I found it humorous. Its no big deal Hawk44, I was just saying, at the time, I thought it was funny.

Quoting Jbmflyer (Reply 14):
When you graduate from the Oklahoma City academy as an AG or Academy Graduate, you are already getting paid above $40,000.

You make only about $20,000 at the Academy. Maybe $40,000 once you reach your facility, but not before.

Quoting Jbmflyer (Reply 14):
The pay you max out at when you work at a level 12 when you reach CPC status (certified professional controller) can be close to $200,000 or more.

Last I heard, the highest paid controllers were making below $190,000 and that's including benefits. In fact, the FAA is trying to renegotiate contracts and pay will drop.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wpdyn/...e/2006/04/05/AR2006040502420.html#
 
christiaan
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 3:17 am

RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Sat May 20, 2006 1:58 am

Quoting Vegasplanes (Reply 10):
I do not recall if starting pay was mentioned, but I doubt it would be below $ 40,000/yr for a controller in a FAA tower at a major airport such as LAS. The ground control guys stated they make in the $ 70,000-85,000 area. I think your numbers may be a bit off, the $ 40,000/yr might be starting pay for a controller at a place like IGM.

Incorrect. Starting pay for an ATC Academy Grad is in the $30,000 range. At a Level 12 facility Base pay for a Certified Controller (CPC) is $102846 plus locality which varies from place to place.

Quoting Jbmflyer (Reply 14):
The pay you max out at when you work at a level 12 when you reach CPC status (certified professional controller) can be close to $200,000 or more. You get paid time and a half for all work after 6 pm and double for all holidays. Then you get up to 18% (i believe) tagged onto your salary for locality pay to offset the cost of living. This raises your salary even more. The pay controllers recieve grossly outdoes any pay for any other FAA job.

The ONLY way to make close to $200,000 per year as a controller is if you work 6 days a week. A fellow controller in CA worked 6 days a week for all of last year and didn't even crack $200k. To have the opportunity to get close to making that much $, you have to have 15-20+ years of service in The FAA and have gotten our yearly COST OF LIVING increases. 3% this year

We are NOT looking for a pay raise. We are looking for a FAIR compensation package which doesn't even include a raise. The FAA wants to change work rules, dress codes, Overtime, and Vacation all in their benefit.

As usual, most people have no Real clue as to the stress we deal with on a daily basis. If we are over paid at $120k per year, what about 747 drivers who make $200k or more? I have no problems with what a pilot makes.
Lets compare other countries controllers.
USA operations in 2005...over 41millions ops
Eurocontrol ops 2005...Slightly over 9 million ops.

FAA Pay $120
Eurocontrol $70

We make 40% more for 400% more traffic...
"Give me the luxuries of life and I will willingly do without the necessities" Frank Lloyd Wright 1932
 
HAL
Posts: 1741
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:38 am

RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Sat May 20, 2006 3:16 am

Quoting Christiaan (Reply 21):
what about 747 drivers who make $200k or more?

Just to be fair, no major airline pays its pilots $200k for being a 747 Captain any more except UPS or FedEx (OK, MD-11 at FedEx).

United, NW, Delta, American; top pay for Captains there is in the $150k to $170k range now with all the cuts they've taken. And that's for only the most senior pilots on the biggest equipment - mid-size aircraft Captains (737, 757) make less. That doesn't include the loss of most of their pension or retirement benefits.

HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
christiaan
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 3:17 am

RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Sat May 20, 2006 3:45 am

Quoting HAL (Reply 22):
Just to be fair, no major airline pays its pilots $200k for being a 747 Captain any more except UPS or FedEx (OK, MD-11 at FedEx).

United, NW, Delta, American; top pay for Captains there is in the $150k to $170k range now with all the cuts they've taken. And that's for only the most senior pilots on the biggest equipment - mid-size aircraft Captains (737, 757) make less. That doesn't include the loss of most of their pension or retirement benefits.

HAL

Hal,
I'm not questioning Pilot pay at all and if that is how it came across, I appologise. I'm was attempting to explain that on both sides of the radio(pilot/controller) we make a very descent salary for the very stressful job we do everyday.
"Give me the luxuries of life and I will willingly do without the necessities" Frank Lloyd Wright 1932
 
DAYflyer
Posts: 3546
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Sat May 20, 2006 3:57 am

The triple threat: A government employee...in a unionized environment...backed by a government agency making promises.
One Nation Under God
 
deltadc9
Posts: 2788
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:00 pm

RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Sat May 20, 2006 4:10 am

Quoting FSPilot747 (Reply 18):
Great we have yuppie MBA students in here, who only care about cutting costs and f*cking everybody else. You are not qualified to comment on another person's salary unless you know the first thing about the job.

What an asinine and hypocritical comment. Unless you have worked 6 years to obtain an MBA and have used that education in practice, you are not qualified to comment on another person's qualifications unless you know the first thing about the what an MBA does, which you obviously do not.

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 24):
The triple threat: A government employee...in a unionized environment...backed by a government agency making promises.

 redflag   redflag   redflag 
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
IAHFLYR
Posts: 3943
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:56 am

RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Sat May 20, 2006 4:14 am

Quoting HAL (Reply 22):
Just to be fair, no major airline pays its pilots $200k for being a 747 Captain any more except UPS or FedEx (OK, MD-11 at FedEx).

And there are few if any controllers that approach that figure either! With all the overtime, night pay, holiday, etc you'd have to work almost 6 day weeks over 1/2 the year to get to that level even at the LEVEL 12 facilities. Bottom line, pilot pay has come down tremondously over the last few years and I don't agree with that either in a field where split second decisions on both sides of the mic are most important and where attention to detail is a MUST.

Oh by the way, there has been information being passed out across the country at select airports for a few weeks now.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
SPREE34
Posts: 1563
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:09 am

RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Sat May 20, 2006 4:24 am

Quoting Jbmflyer (Reply 14):
when you work at a level 12 when you reach CPC status (certified professional controller) can be close to $200,000 or more.

Absolutely incorrect.

Quoting Jbmflyer (Reply 14):
When you graduate from the Oklahoma City academy as an AG or Academy Graduate, you are already getting paid above $40,000.

2 Points, you are absolutely incorrect twice.

Quoting Jetboy757 (Reply 15):
I think a lot of people have the pay scales wrong. I'm currently an ATC student, and we were informed that a level 12 facility starts at around $95,000, and caps out at about $130,000.

This is good data, but will no longer be the case very shortly.

Quoting Jetboy757 (Reply 15):
Now with the new FAA pay cut, the bottom of a level 12 would be around $70,000, and the top would be $95,000. Also, once out of OKC, you are not payed $40,000+.

Correct. Less than when ATC was on the GS scale.

Jmbflyer, would you like for me to scan the last paystub of a retired ATC12 for you? That would be an ATC 12 that retired with 25 years government service. Your source of information is way off.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Sat May 20, 2006 5:31 am

Quoting Jbmflyer (Reply 14):

At the same time, when the FAA offered them a pay package the Controllers Union asked for $600 million more per year for pay for their controllers..........its rediculous.



You should probably learn how to spell the word ridiculous, because it will make your uninformed posts on this subject look a bit better. Beyond that issue, that FAA "pay package" suggests that acadamy students earn $8.15 per hour while trying to live and eat in a significant inflationary environment and then take a huge, 2 tiered cut over the current decent pay. That definately doesn't help when you have towers already calling in a raft of overtime because they are understaffed.

Quoting Jbmflyer (Reply 14):

When you graduate from the Oklahoma City academy as an AG or Academy Graduate, you are already getting paid above $40,000



You should review that again.

Quoting Jbmflyer (Reply 14):

The pay you max out at when you work at a level 12 when you reach CPC status (certified professional controller) can be close to $200,000 or more.



Wrong. The highest base pay at the FAA is $130,000 per year, though the FAA is trying to cut that too. This is definately not the way to deal with a huge number of mandatory retirements
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
tercer
Posts: 137
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:55 pm

RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Sat May 20, 2006 6:12 am

Quote:
Bob Marks is the regional vice president of the Air Traffic Controllers Association. He and other union members are passing out leaflets at McCarran Airport. They're encouraging travelers to contact lawmakers and put a stop to the FAA's contract.

This is a political move on part of NATCA playing the safety card to scare the traveling public during contract negotiations. If the controllers are indeed experiencing an unsafe working environment they would slow the traffic down with en-route restrictions and other initiatives. You might also experience a work slow down in the form of a manpower shortage as we saw in Washington Center a few weeks back. Pilots, Mechanics, and Flight Attendants do this same thing often playing the same safety card during their negotiations too.
It's politically sensitive, but it's going to happen.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Sat May 20, 2006 6:37 am

Quoting Tercer (Reply 29):
This is a political move on part of NATCA playing the safety card to scare the traveling public during contract negotiations.

If you think this is a mere political move, perhaps you should note that 11 of the 60 controllers at NorCal Approach Control will hand in their retirement papers if S.2201 and H.R.4755 do not go through and the FAA imposes their short-sighted will on the controllers. If any of you actually care about this issue, I suggest you go to www.fairfaa.com
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
tercer
Posts: 137
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:55 pm

RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Sat May 20, 2006 6:45 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 30):
If you think this is a mere political move, perhaps you should note that 11 of the 60 controllers at NorCal Approach Control will hand in their retirement papers if S.2201 and H.R.4755 do not go through and the FAA imposes their short-sighted will on the controllers. If any of you actually care about this issue, I suggest you go to www.fairfaa.com

Like I said, a political tactic used by unions to boost positive public sentiment during contract negotiations, pilots have been doing this for years (fairfaa is a NATCA run website by the way).
http://www.faa.gov/about/contract_negotiations/
It's politically sensitive, but it's going to happen.
 
AirWillie6475
Posts: 2372
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:45 pm

RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passeng

Sat May 20, 2006 7:14 am

Wow that dude had a nice mullet!! I thought ATC made like 200k a year, he looked like he could be a construction worker. Honestly, how hard is to say cleared for takeoff, cleared for landing, cleared for takeoff, cleared fo rlanding, transition c airpace approved, clear for takeoff, clear for landing all day? Give me a break. Maybe they should relax the requirement to become an ATC, right now you have to have a PHD to be an ATC.

[Edited 2006-05-20 00:16:10]
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Sat May 20, 2006 7:17 am

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 32):
Honestly, how hard is to say cleared for takeoff, cleared for landing, cleared for takeoff, cleared fo rlanding, transition c airpace approved, clear for takeoff, clear for landing all day

You should be absolutely flamed for this.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
AirWillie6475
Posts: 2372
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:45 pm

RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Sat May 20, 2006 7:46 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 33):
You should be absolutely flamed for this.

sorry I'm just used to my lazy controllers at my local airport.
 
NW747-400
Posts: 366
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 1999 4:42 am

RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Sat May 20, 2006 7:52 am

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 32):
right now you have to have a PHD to be an ATC.

Just a graduate of a CTI school, which is not difficult to do. There are 2 dozen or so scattered throughout the country and Puerto Rico.
 
phelpsie87
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:41 pm

RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Sat May 20, 2006 9:16 am

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 32):
Maybe they should relax the requirement to become an ATC, right now you have to have a PHD to be an ATC.

haha, your kidding right? PhD? Your wrong. Last I knew there were even some 2 years schools out there.
 
SPREE34
Posts: 1563
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:09 am

RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Sat May 20, 2006 12:41 pm

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 32):
Honestly, how hard is to say cleared for takeoff, cleared for landing, cleared for takeoff, cleared fo rlanding, transition c airpace approved, clear for takeoff, clear for landing all day? Give me a break.

What an absolutely splendid demonstration of your ignorance. A fair dose of arrogance as well. What you appear to know about ATC wouldn't fill a piss ants thimble. A microphone and 3X5 cards with clearances to read isn't how it works junior.
Now to be fair about this, maybe you do know something. So, share your ATC training, experience and background with us. Maybe we can get hired directly into a management position.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
Boeing7E7
Posts: 5512
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Sat May 20, 2006 1:43 pm

VFR all damn day, and this Union hack thinks he has a staffing problem? BS. Send this guy to New York Center and see how he does. I bet he lasts a half a day, tops.

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 7):
The US government needs to pay controllers decent money. Controllers should not be making below $40,000 or anything like that. If controllers made a good salary I would think about becoming one. Its not exactly an easy job and they deserve some money, if there salaries were a little higher than maybe some more people would think about going into the job, more educated people I say, Not saying controllers are not educated but a college degree is not needed. So why would someone who went to four years of college want to become ATC and make little money when they can get a more "normal" job and make more money.
ATC deserve money just like pilots do, but pilots fly for private companies ATC works for the government, the government can raise salaries, not saying by 50% here just a decent salary for someone with a job has hard as an ATC has.

$80 to 100K isn't enough?

[Edited 2006-05-20 06:45:04]
 
jbmflyer
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:50 am

RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passeng

Sat May 20, 2006 9:31 pm

Quoting FSPilot747 (Reply 18):
Great we have yuppie MBA students in here, who only care about cutting costs and f*cking everybody else. You are not qualified to comment on another person's salary unless you know the first thing about the job.

Don't ever tell me what I am, who I am, or what my intentions are when I reach the industry. Also, I am qualified to comment on whatever I want as I have a brain and the right to Free Speech. Before you go trying to stretch your muscle across the board why don't you take a deep breath, relax and realize, I don't care about your opinion, who you are, or how many years experience you have as a FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR, it is still not an MBA degree. I love how you have no experience in it and you can tell me what i'm all about in regards to my entire life's plans.

Quoting Phelpsie87 (Reply 20):
You make only about $20,000 at the Academy. Maybe $40,000 once you reach your facility, but not before.

That is what i said


From what I have heard from A cousin working NY TRACON and a few friends just arriving at ATL center, there are more than a few working 6 days a week with shortages of controllers out there

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 27):
Your source of information is way off.

The only source I had was when I was training for ATC at Embry-Riddle from my friend who were already at facilities, our professors talking with the FAA and Marion Blakey who we spoke with a few times....Granted she isn't a controller, but still I felt a reliable source.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 28):
You should probably learn how to spell the word ridiculous, because it will make your uninformed posts on this subject look a bit better



Quoting N1120A (Reply 28):
Wrong. The highest base pay at the FAA is $130,000 per year, though the FAA is trying to cut that too. This is definately

You should learn how to spell definitely before bashing my spelling in a post. Makes you look better as an obnoxious ass.





PEOPLE, IT WAS MY OPINION, I'M SORRY FOR HAVING ONE, ILL GO FLOG MYSELF IN MY LIVING ROOM FOR 3 HOURS TO COMPENSATE. I mean, I thought the information was correct from what I've heard, but it wasn't according to everyone else. This kind of attitude, i'm sure, makes many feel welcome here. I guess I have a long way to go before I get promoted to Arm Chair CEO.........

I do apologize for using my right to free speech, next time, I will just speak to my screen and then flog myself for having the silly idea of attempting to post something.



my only concern is this.........If this is how angry people get on this board over some lines of incorrect information, what happens if someone in your home accidentally spills coffee on you or messes up your dinner?
A pilots heart, mind and soul stuck in a 8-5 bankers chair.............
 
SPREE34
Posts: 1563
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:09 am

RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Sat May 20, 2006 11:13 pm

Quoting Jbmflyer (Reply 39):
and Marion Blakey who we spoke with a few times....Granted she isn't a controller, but still I felt a reliable source.



She is a political appointee who doesn't really know much about the realities of ATC or flying.

Quoting Jbmflyer (Reply 39):
I thought the information was correct from what I've heard,

"..from what I've heard.." That will get your can kicked in here every time. In the real world of Aviation it can get your can kicked on a daily basis, or killed if you operate an aircraft. You appeared to have spoken earlier as though you "knew". It appears you didn't "know", but had "heard." That generally draws fire here quickly, especially if someone here considers it spreading misinformation.

Quoting Jbmflyer (Reply 39):

my only concern is this.........If this is how angry people get on this board over some lines of incorrect information,

Incorrect information that is spoken as knowledge? Yep, they'll burn you every time. Angry? Perhaps that's just your perception.

Quoting Jbmflyer (Reply 39):
what happens if someone in your home accidentally spills coffee on you or messes up your dinner?

I've had it happen, and I've also been the one who spilled. My attitude in these circumstances is "shit happens." I would not LET it spoil my dinner. Let's clean up and move on.
You didn't accidentally say something wrong. You spoke as though you "knew." You did not. That will draw fire every time. Lesson learned? In the future engage brain, check facts, then type. Get over it and enjoy the site.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Mon May 22, 2006 10:23 am

Quoting Jbmflyer (Reply 39):
Quoting N1120A (Reply 28):
Wrong. The highest base pay at the FAA is $130,000 per year, though the FAA is trying to cut that too. This is definately

You should learn how to spell definitely before bashing my spelling in a post.

Yep, you are probably right, and now I know.  sarcastic 
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Mir
Posts: 19093
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Mon May 22, 2006 11:23 am

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 32):
Wow that dude had a nice mullet!! I thought ATC made like 200k a year, he looked like he could be a construction worker. Honestly, how hard is to say cleared for takeoff, cleared for landing, cleared for takeoff, cleared fo rlanding, transition c airpace approved, clear for takeoff, clear for landing all day? Give me a break. Maybe they should relax the requirement to become an ATC, right now you have to have a PHD to be an ATC.

What the hell are you talking about?  confused 

To be fair about lazy controllers, I visited a tower in Kalamazoo, MI, and there was one guy there who had absolutely nothing to do - I must have been up there for half and hour and there was one plane that called up to takeoff, nobody came to land. But those people don't get the top salaries, the ones at JFK, ATL, LAX, etc. do - and they can be really really busy.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
bayareapilot
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 3:53 am

RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Mon May 22, 2006 11:55 am

Quoting Christiaan (Reply 21):
Lets compare other countries controllers.
USA operations in 2005...over 41millions ops
Eurocontrol ops 2005...Slightly over 9 million ops.

FAA Pay $120
Eurocontrol $70

We make 40% more for 400% more traffic...

And how many controllers does the FAA employ versus how many Eurocontrol employs? It's impossible to draw a conclusion without that information. Not to mention most places in Europe have a higher cost of living than most places in the US.
 
ATCme
Posts: 294
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 8:20 am

RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Mon May 22, 2006 12:06 pm

A controller's job is hard depending on which airport you work at. I've visited KJBC (Jeffco Airport) a few times and yes they don't do an awful lot, but they are an essential part of the operations of the airport. If I had visited DEN for instance then the controllers would be a lot busier. But one thing to remember is that controllers get paid on scales depending on the difficulty level of an airport. For a biased opinion (I mean BIASED, it is the NATCA we're talking about) visit www.fairfaa.com and look around.
Just my 2 cents
ATCme  spin 
I'm from the FAA, and I'm here to help. Really. Yes I'm serious, I'm here to help you.
 
christiaan
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 3:17 am

RE: Las Vegas Air Traffic Controllers Warn Passengers

Tue May 23, 2006 9:27 am

Quoting BayAreaPilot (Reply 43):
And how many controllers does the FAA employ versus how many Eurocontrol employs? It's impossible to draw a conclusion without that information. Not to mention most places in Europe have a higher cost of living than most places in the US.

The cost of living and the quantity of workers is irrelevant. What I suggested was that if FAA controllers make X and Euro controllers make Y and FAA controllers control 400% more traffic, then why shouldn't the FAA controllers make more money? I think I make more than enough, but thats me, and I'm not going to Complain about the pay...I'm going to complain about wanting to force split shifts, call in's for overtime and no gauratee of pay for it, The inabaility to get gaurateed vacation time that has already been earned. The FAA want's all FAA controllers to NOT take ANY vacation during the publics high travel/vacation times: All Summer, Spring Break, Fall Break, Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years....that leaves us with????? a random Thursday in January??? How fair it that? How can I plan a Family life with restriction like that?
"Give me the luxuries of life and I will willingly do without the necessities" Frank Lloyd Wright 1932