Robbie86
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LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sat May 20, 2006 11:47 pm

I tried searching for threads with this subject but I couldn't find any. Has anyone heard anything on which routes LH will be using their A380's? I have heard that the will use them on the:

FRA-DEL
FRA-JFK
FRA-EWR

If I'm not misstaken LH bought 15 A380's, so where will the other ones fly?
 
SQ325
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 1:01 am

FRA-SIN
FRA-SFO
FRA-MIA
FRA-LAX
FRA-HKG

are some routes i heard of!
 
Alitalia744
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 1:03 am

Quoting Robbie86 (Thread starter):
FRA-EWR

EWR is not 380 ready nor will it be from what I've understood.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
panam330
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 1:07 am

I'd expect DEN to be upgraded, should it be A380 ready (and I believe it is).
 
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Stitch
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 1:15 am

I am sure DEN can handle the A380 with their new 16,000(?) ft runway, and they are putting in dual jetways for TED.  Smile

I expect FRA-JFK will be on the list. FRA-LAX probably, as well. Not sure about FRA-SFO as UA already has really good coverage and LH has yet to roll out some of the new amenities like Connexion on that route (which they do have to LAX).
 
LHUSA
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 1:21 am

LAX, NRT, JFK and India are on the top of the list.

An article in the Chicago Tribune said that LH would bring the A380 to ORD by 2008, but the article was a little too quick off the press. Still a lot of hurdles to overcome before that actually happens.
 
Robbie86
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 1:34 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 2):
EWR is not 380 ready nor will it be from what I've understood.

Okay, I redd New York on the list so I only assumed that EWR would be a destination.
 
connector4you
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 3:57 am

YVR is to complete the construction of two dedicated A380 gates by spring 2007. Considering that Air Canada and Lufthansa are codesharing on the Frankfurt to Vancouver run for a few years now using LH's B744 and A346, I would assume that the A380 could be the next logical upgrade on this route. A second A380 arriving in Vancouver could be from Singapore !


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Photo © Woodrow Rochlin



On top the black soil to the right is been already erected the nine gate expansion wing incluing the afore mentioned A380 dedicated gates.
 
OOer
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 4:12 am

Quoting Connector4you (Reply 7):
Considering that Air Canada and Lufthansa are codesharing on the Frankfurt to Vancouver run for a few years now using LH's B744 and A346, I would assume that the A380 could be the next logical upgrade on this route. A second A380 arriving in Vancouver could be from Singapore !

Are you serious? YVR cant possibly have enough people to put on an A380 to FRA....or get one from SIN. YVR currently has an A340 from FRA 1 x daily and no current service to SIN. If the SIN service was started it would probably begin with a 772LR first....you dont just throw 600 seats in a market overnight! Especially with the O/D numbers that YVR has. If it was JFK or LAX then in would be understandable!
 
LAXintl
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 5:23 am

Lufthansa was one of the several LAX tenant airlines that have indicated desires to operate the type here.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
ZRH
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 5:24 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 4):
I am sure DEN can handle the A380 with their new 16,000(?) ft runway,

Runway length is not an issue for handling the 380. The 380 does not need more runway than a 747 or 777.
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 6:11 am

Indian airports like BOM and DEL are prime candidates for the 380....but are they 380 ready? What modifications need to be made to these airports (apart from terminal gates) to prepare for the 380...?
 
OOer
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 6:52 am

Quoting ZRH (Reply 10):
Runway length is not an issue for handling the 380. The 380 does not need more runway than a 747 or 777.

Runway 34L/16R is 16000ft by 200ft

I think what he was trying to say is that it is one of the few airports where it could at least land, and yes it does need more runway than a 777.
 
connector4you
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 7:42 am

Quoting OOer (Reply 8):
Are you serious? YVR cant possibly have enough people to put on an A380 to FRA

In the sumer time they probably would

YVR-FRA
LH/AC is currently using an A346 daily
Condor is using a 763 twice weekly
Air Transat is using an A330 three times weekly

Also consider traffic between YVR and DUS/MUC/ZRH served by LTU B763, TS A330, BHP B763 during the summer

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 9):
YVR currently has an A340 from FRA 1 x daily and no current service to SIN

Nope on both counts. LH uses the A346 and Singapore currently uses a B772 three times weekly from SIN to YVR via ICN, Korea.
 
aircanada014
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 8:36 am

I think FRA - YYZ could be 380.
 
centrair
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 8:57 am

NRT could get a LH A380. The new Star Alliance wing of T1 has A380 capable gates.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
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LTU932
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 9:27 am

Quoting Connector4you (Reply 13):
LH/AC is currently using an A346 daily

AC doesn't use the A346, only the A345, and those are maxed out on YYZ-HKG.

LH could also use the A380 on FRA-ORD, along with possible A380 service FRA-BOS during high season. Plus they can take advantage of its capacity further on their FRA-MIA route, which is a daily 747.

Quoting ZRH (Reply 10):
Runway length is not an issue for handling the 380. The 380 does not need more runway than a 747 or 777.

It is an issue for all aircraft in DEN. DEN is a high altitude airport, which can contribute to hot and high conditions in the summer restricting aircraft, which is why they built that 16,000 ft runway, to ease on any weight restrictions that can arise due to hot and high conditions.
 
md11dude
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 9:45 am

If any A-380 is comming to YVR first...Its definatly going be coming from Asia...regardless of carrier. BTW..SIA does fly to YVR...As well as other key airlines....And their pax numbers are a way higher than the European carriers. Apparently Montreal Trudeau Int. will be getting the first A380 for Canada as Air France looks set to chop a 744 flight in favour.... Can anyone update me on this info...as I know I recall hearing About Air frances intention to operate the type into Montreal.
CP979
 
behramjee
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 10:56 am

NRT DEL LAX SFO JFK ORD SIN BKK are the only planned destinations for LHs A 380s when they initially arrive.

I cannot believe that MIA nor DEN would be part of the A 380 list of LH's.

LH also has never even hinted of sending the A 380 to Canada...the only airline that has confirmed the A 380 coming to Canada is Air France who is going to use the aircraft for their YUL-CDG flights at lease once daily!
 
connector4you
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 11:00 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 16):
AC doesn't use the A346, only the A345, and those are maxed out on YYZ-HKG

That's correct AC doesn't have any A346 but is currently "using" Lufthansa's one on the FRA-YVR route . . . trough codesharing. Star Alliance patners eh ?!
 
planetime
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 11:20 am

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 18):
NRT DEL LAX SFO JFK ORD SIN BKK are the only planned destinations for LHs A 380s when they initially arrive.

Not sure about DEL. Will it be ready for 380 anytime soon?

JFK,LAX,SIN,MIA will be the likely candidates. And then SFO.
 
yanksn4
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 11:27 am

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 18):
I cannot believe that MIA nor DEN would be part of the A 380 list of LH's.

I could maybe see LH bringing the 380 here to DEN during the summer months. LH usually downgrades DEN to the 346's in the winter.

signed,
Matthew
2013 Airports: EWR, JFK, LGA, LIS, AGP, DEN, GIG, RGN, BKK, LHR, FRA, LAX, SYD, PER, MEL, MCO, MIA, PEK, IAH
 
COA735
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 11:39 am

Off the topic a little, forgive me. But how is a airport "A380" ready? Do they need a special type of jetway?

JM  mischievous 
 
HB-IWC
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 12:02 pm

Quoting Planetime (Reply 20):
Not sure about DEL. Will it be ready for 380 anytime soon?

At the time the A380 was announced, Lufthansa's CEO specifically mentioned DEL as one of the first destinations and added that LH could easily fill an A380 to DEL already at that time.
 
nickofatlanta
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 12:05 pm

LH has stated that the 380 may make it economically viable for them fly down under again - presumably SYD.
 
YVRlonghauler
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 1:07 pm

Quoting MD11dude (Reply 17):
And their pax numbers are a way higher than the European carriers.

Untrue for SIA.

Quoting Connector4you (Reply 13):
In the sumer time they probably would

 checkmark 

Quoting OOer (Reply 8):
Are you serious? YVR cant possibly have enough people to put on an A380 to FRA....or get one from SIN. YVR currently has an A340 from FRA 1 x daily and no current service to SIN. If the SIN service was started it would probably begin with a 772LR first....you dont just throw 600 seats in a market overnight! Especially with the O/D numbers that YVR has.

I know that LH's sending an A380 to YVR sounds counterintuitive, but hear this. Obviously not all of YVR's passengers that BA & LH carry are O&D. Many people connect to other parts of Europe and the Middle East at either LHR or FRA respectively. However, since BA's presence in YVR is stronger, many people opt for BA. In addition, I've heard more than complaint about LH A346's poor seat pitch, which is not very encouraging for anyone planning to choose LH over BA for intercontinental flights. I'm no CEO here, and I don't know about LH's A380 seating config, but my gut feeling is that if LH's A380 have a better seat pitch than their A346s, people at YVR might consider flying LH over BA if they were to fly a more spacious plane here. In other words, they might have a chance at stealing a number of passengers that otherwise usually fly BA for their connections elsewhere. I mean, the difference between BA's 744 and LH's A346 seats is not that big. If LH were to dissuade just enough connection passengers from flying BA instead, they might have a good business case for sending a daily A380 into YVR over the summer.

Just my opinion.

YVRlonghauler
 
CBERFlyer
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 1:35 pm

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 18):
I cannot believe that MIA nor DEN would be part of the A 380 list of LH's.

See the following newsletter article from DEN. While not in any way a definite commitment, LH itself brings up the possibility of bring the A380 to DEN. The FRA-DEN route has been one of their "best-performing U.S. flights." (LH's own words).

http://www.flydenver.com/biz/news/wingtips/2006_qtr2.html#lufthansa
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 1:48 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 4):
I am sure DEN can handle the A380 with their new 16,000(?) ft runway,

DEN's 16,000' long runway is because of the airport's high altitude (5200' MSL), not because the A-380 needs it.

LH has been trying to get DFW to become A-380 ready (it is not), so they can replace their daily A-340-300/A-330-200. I believe they have been trying to get IAH and DEN to also upgrade their airports.
 
Boeing744
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 2:19 pm

Quoting MD11dude (Reply 17):
SIA does fly to YVR.

Yes, but from INC, which is also served by KE and AC, so an A380 would be unlikely I think.

As for LH ever serving YVR with an A380, I think it could be possible. In the summer months, the flight is packed (flew it r/t on a 744 last year, Y was full both ways). A lot of tourist traffic on this route from what I saw. Maybe right now, there is no need for an A380, but in 2010 there will probably be a big expansion of service by many airlines...
 
connector4you
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 2:50 pm

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 28):
Yes, but from INC, which is also served by KE and AC, so an A380 would be unlikely I think

True, unless SIA will reroute its flights to YVR trough a diferent Asian gateway or start offering incredible deals out of Changi. In the right hands the A380 could be a handy tool on setting air-fare prices and routes !!!
 
jyatlantic
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 5:56 pm

FRA-SFO. The airport was the FIRST airport in America to be ready for the big bird in 2003 (yes, BEFORE LAX,JFK,etc...)
 
Gemuser
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 5:59 pm

Quoting COA735 (Reply 22):
Off the topic a little, forgive me. But how is a airport "A380" ready? Do they need a special type of jetway?

It depends very much on the existing airport inferstructure and what you mean by "ready".

The A380 will be certified to use ANY airport that the B744 can use.

Having said that, there can be problems, the main one being an "absolute weight limited structure"(AWL). Most airport weight limitations are expressed as a loading (ie weight per unit area). The A380s loading is supposed to be LESS than a B744 (it has more wheels). However some structures such as runway/taxiway tunnels/bridges also have a total or absolute weight limit. If this is less than the A380 MGTOW then some modifications will be needed. I understand that JFK is modifying some taxiway bridges over an expressway to cope with this sitution. Many (most?) airports do NOT have AML structures.

While the A380 can use 45m(120') wide runways, the outboard engines will over hang which can lead to problems, so some airports, such as MEL, are/have widened their runways to 60m(200'). That was their decision. For runway lengths the A380 will require no more length than a B744 under the same conditions.

Many airports have some taxiway turnoffs and even taxiways that do not comply with the ICAO 80m "box" standard. They will probabley have work to do on those. Like wise with gates, if gates do not meet the ICAO standard some work will be required.

As far as double deck, multi jetway gates are concerned the A380 does not REQUIRE them, however it will obviously improve day to day operations if they do. To install such gates is a commerical decision for each airport. If you only have one or two A380s per day you can make do with remote stands, if you have 30% of your traffic on them, obviously its a different matter.


Hope this helps

Gemuser
DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
 
tommybp251b
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 7:15 pm

Quoting Connector4you (Reply 13):
LTU B763

No B763 with LTU anymore. Just A332 or A333.
Tom from Cologne
 
MAH4546
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 7:39 pm

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 18):

I cannot believe that MIA nor DEN would be part of the A 380 list of LH's.

MIA and DEN are the perfect type of destination for A380: good yields, lots of leisure traffic, and does not demand more than one daily flight. While I have no idea if Lufthansa will fly them there, LH has talked about both Miami and Denver as being potential A380 destinations. It is far too early to tell exactly where they will fly.
a.
 
ACDC8
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 8:05 pm

As far as YVR goes, LH may send one in, but I wouldn´t excpect this to happen for the next few years. Although, YVR has a very strong Asian market, the European market is growing stronger year after year, especially in the summer.

During the summer months BA flys in 2 B744s from LHR, one daily and the other several times a week. LH has it´s daily flight from FRA which has in the past been flown with the B744 as well as its flight to MUC. Plus extra flights a week to FRA using DE B767s. KL has its daily flight to AMS and AC has 2 dailies to LHR using B767s and Airbus.

As far as charter flights to Germany go, TS flies several times a week to FRA and MUC. DE flies to FRA (as mentioned above). Not to mention LT´s flight from DUS which started out as once a week 2 years ago, went twice weekly last year and is going 3 times a week this year.

BC´s toursim from European markets is booming year after year. Not to mention (as pointed out in a post above), many of the pax flying to FRA, AMS or LHR are people continuing on to other destinations in Europe, the Mid East and Indian Sub-Continent.

Not to mention the fact that YVR is getting ready for the A380, this costs a lot of money, and I don´t think that YVR is spending this money with out any justification that they are planning on having A380 service in the future. And LH is a very strong possibility.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
planetime
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 8:21 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 23):
LH could easily fill an A380 to DEL already at that time.

That much demand for DEL? I am guessing LH does a lot of business from US-India going via Fra? Is this the reason for this?
 
christao17
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 9:36 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 4):
I am sure DEN can handle the A380 with their new 16,000(?) ft runway, and they are putting in dual jetways for TED.

Um... the dual jetways for TED are not going to do much to help with an A380. The second jetways is an overwing bridge that can reach the rear door of a 737 or (in TED's case) an A320. It is not designed to reach the second deck on an A380.

DEN already has several gates with dual boarding bridges that are used with other widebody aircraft. These could be used for an A380 but wouldn't reach the second deck.
Keeping the "civil" in civil aviation...
 
Robbie86
Topic Author
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 9:37 pm

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 18):
Apparently Montreal Trudeau Int. will be getting the first A380 for Canada as Air France looks set to chop a 744 flight in favour.... Can anyone update me on this info...as I know I recall hearing About Air frances intention to operate the type into Montreal.

Is AF a 380 customer at all?
 
cityairline
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 10:20 pm

Quoting Robbie86 (Reply 37):
Is AF a 380 customer at all?

Yes, they've ordered 10 of them  Smile
I don't fly to live, I live to fly...
 
SKA380
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Sun May 21, 2006 10:21 pm

Quoting OOer (Reply 8):
If the SIN service was started it would probably begin with a 772LR first

If you're refering to SIA, i think they first need to order the 772LR before they can send them anywhere, no?

As of LH, My guesses are NRT, HKG, BKK, LAX, JFK, ORD and DEL.
I dont know how they will do it in BKK though, as that flight continues to Ho Chi Minh and Kuala Lumpur if i'm not mistaken.
 
A342
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Mon May 22, 2006 3:46 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 27):
LH has been trying to get DFW to become A-380 ready (it is not), so they can replace their daily A-340-300/A-330-200.


Don't you think they'd use the A346 and 744 first before thinking about A380s to DFW ? But you're right, if they want to use it to DFW in the future, they better ask for the upgrades now.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 34):
LH has (...) its flight to MUC.

It was only flown in summer 2004, unfortunately it's gone since then.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
Joost
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Mon May 22, 2006 4:00 am

Quoting MD11dude (Reply 17):
Can anyone update me on this info...as I know I recall hearing About Air frances intention to operate the type into Montreal.

I've read several posts here and items on other websites confirming that AF's first destinations will be YUL and JFK. When more frames arrive, NRT will be added too.
 
COA735
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Mon May 22, 2006 6:41 am

It did. Thanks Gemuser.

JM  mischievous 
 
Carpethead
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Mon May 22, 2006 12:34 pm

Considering that FRA is slot restricted until the new runway opens and linking other slots restricted 744 airports or to destinations with small travel window, NRT, BKK, & SIN are clearly early candidates cities to see the A380. I have even read NRT is to be one of the first cities that that will see A380 service when at least two are delivered.

Nobody has mentioned the possibility of JNB with the joining of SAA to the Star Alliance. Wouldnft it be feasible to have
SAA operate the daytime routes with the A346 and LH run the A380 on the overnight legs in each direction to give the traveler the most options?

Also is LH going to be replacing its 744s on a one-to-one basis or partial replacement & long-haul expansion? What I mean by expansion is that the A380 would takeover one of the 744 routes; the displaced 744 would take over an A346/A343 route, and the freed up A343 can be used for expansion.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Mon May 22, 2006 12:53 pm

Quoting Jyatlantic (Reply 30):
FRA-SFO. The airport was the FIRST airport in America to be ready for the big bird in 2003 (yes, BEFORE LAX,JFK,etc...)

I think one of the earliest destinations for the LH A380-800 planes is San Francisco, because the route between SFO and FRA is very difficult to get tickets almost year-round even with the 747-400 currently assigned to the route. I wouldn't be surprised some time in Fall 2006 Airbus will fly from FRA to SFO on route-proving test flights just like they did with the A340-600 before the A346 entered service.
 
jacobin777
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Mon May 22, 2006 1:02 pm

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 44):
I think one of the earliest destinations for the LH A380-800 planes is San Francisco, because the route between SFO and FRA is very difficult to get tickets almost year-round even with the 747-400 currently assigned to the route. I wouldn't be surprised some time in Fall 2006 Airbus will fly from FRA to SFO on route-proving test flights just like they did with the A340-600 before the A346 entered service.

I hope it's true..

I'll be there for it's arrival..

[Edited 2006-05-22 06:10:56]
"Up the Irons!"
 
tbear815
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Mon May 22, 2006 4:27 pm

With regard to SFO, LH served SFO in the early '60's originally with 707's to ORY via YUL. The route was one of the "finest" ways to get to Europe. So with the A380, it would be traditional for LH to be the first to SFO.
 
milan320
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Mon May 22, 2006 4:38 pm

Quoting OOer (Reply 8):
Are you serious? YVR cant possibly have enough people to put on an A380 to FRA....or get one from SIN. YVR currently has an A340 from FRA 1 x daily and no current service to SIN. If the SIN service was started it would probably begin with a 772LR first....you dont just throw 600 seats in a market overnight! Especially with the O/D numbers that YVR has. If it was JFK or LAX then in would be understandable!

I'm sure once the Olympics come to vancouver in 2010 there will be at least one A380 daily in YVR.
-Milan320
I accept bribes ... :-)
 
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LTU932
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Mon May 22, 2006 6:05 pm

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 18):
NRT DEL LAX SFO JFK ORD SIN BKK

I'm a bit surprised they didn't include MIA, DEN and even BOS. They could have sent the A380s to MIA and BOS at least, along with the routes mentioned above. Those destinations might also require higher capacity for when the 747s are maxed out.

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 43):
Also is LH going to be replacing its 744s on a one-to-one basis or partial replacement & long-haul expansion? What I mean by expansion is that the A380 would takeover one of the 744 routes; the displaced 744 would take over an A346/A343 route, and the freed up A343 can be used for expansion.

Some of LH's 744s are pretty new, with some of them delivered around 2000 as well. I don't think the A380 will be used as a true one to one replacement for the 747, but rather it could be used for fleet expansion and one to one replacement of older 747s, which LH could in turn convert to freighters. LH also needs those remaining 744s for places where the A380 is simply too big, and the A346 too small. Thus LH would operate their A380s side by side with many 747s for the next few years.
 
Robbie86
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RE: LH's Airbus 380 Destinations?

Mon May 22, 2006 7:06 pm

I think that LH will use the 380 to DEL, BOM, JFK, LAX, NRT, BKK, SIN, PEK, HKG