positiverate
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DL 764 BizElite Conversions

Sun May 21, 2006 1:16 pm

I think this topic has been discussed before, but a search didn't reveal any threads. Anyone know when the 764 BizElite conversions will start? I'm booking a BizElite ticket to LGW, and although I would prefer taking the 10PM departure to LGW and the 1PM return from LGW, I'll go on the ER instead if those dreadful 764 FC seats are still installed.
 
dl1011
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RE: DL 764 BizElite Conversions

Sun May 21, 2006 1:26 pm

I took a couple of days off, but if noboby else has info then I'll try to find out for you next week.
 
SESGDL
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RE: DL 764 BizElite Conversions

Sun May 21, 2006 4:01 pm

DL's 764s won't have Business Elite until this fall. You'll have to fly in F, or economy of course. Fly on a 763 or a 777 if you don't like F.

Jeremy
 
ANNOYEDFA
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RE: DL 764 BizElite Conversions

Sun May 21, 2006 4:43 pm

Yeah they so Horrid I just don't know how anyone in the world flies them...  Yeah sure
"TWA... One Mission, Yours."
 
767-332ER
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RE: DL 764 BizElite Conversions

Sun May 21, 2006 5:51 pm

Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 3):
Yeah they so Horrid I just don't know how anyone in the world flies them...

I smell a bit of sarcasm here...is my sense of smell correct?
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
 
dutchjet
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RE: DL 764 BizElite Conversions

Sun May 21, 2006 7:20 pm

The 764s wont get the upgrade until after the busy summer travel season......and then, its only five aircraft (from what I have heard) that will get the upgrade. Until then, the F seats on the 764s flying international will be used for full fare pax, elite FFs and the like. For some strange reason, DL's 764s seem very cramped with a minimum of space per pax.....the pitch and seat width numbers are in normal range, but its an illusion. The "domestic first" cabin has a very tight configuration....its crowded even for a US domestic F product.

My guess is that the 764s will be among the first aircraft with the enhanced BizElite product.
 
deltairlines
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RE: DL 764 BizElite Conversions

Mon May 22, 2006 12:03 am

Domestic F is a bit uncomfortable...sitting upright in those seats is pretty uncomfortable, but once reclined, I found it rather comfortable (it also helps that I'm only 5'6", but there did seem to be a little less room than an MD-88). In my DL F experience, I've found MD-88s to be the best, followed by 763s, then 757s, then 764s and finally 737-200s (haven't had a chance to fly the 738 in F).

Jeff
 
DL4EVR
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RE: DL 764 BizElite Conversions

Mon May 22, 2006 12:33 am

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 6):
Domestic F is a bit uncomfortable...sitting upright in those seats is pretty uncomfortable, but once reclined, I found it rather comfortable (it also helps that I'm only 5'6", but there did seem to be a little less room than an MD-88). In my DL F experience, I've found MD-88s to be the best, followed by 763s, then 757s, then 764s and finally 737-200s (haven't had a chance to fly the 738 in F).

DL's website and seatguru.com say that the 764 has 39" of pitch...2 more inches than the MD88...is that wrong?
We Love To Fly And It Shows.
 
dutchjet
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RE: DL 764 BizElite Conversions

Mon May 22, 2006 2:10 am

Quoting DL4EVR (Reply 7):

DL's website and seatguru.com say that the 764 has 39" of pitch...2 more inches than the MD88...is that wrong?

Probably not, I trust the numbers on seatguru and there probably is 39 inches of pitch in the domestic F cabin of Delta's 764s........its just that entire Delta 764 seems crowded with lots of seats and that feeling continues into the F cabin....its nothing more than an illusion I think. Personally, I also dont care for DL's seats, but that is subjective.

Its odd, Delta's 764s seem very crowded and CO's 764s seem so roomy, and I do realize that the measurement numbers do NOT support my feelings, sometimes the illusion of space is as important as the actual per passenger space - which could be why so many pax dont like RJs.
 
deltairlines
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RE: DL 764 BizElite Conversions

Mon May 22, 2006 2:15 am

I don't know about the 764...I've always felt that I've had quite a bit more room on the MD-88 (unless I'm in 1C/D...feels very cramped there) compared to the 764. Either way, for being a small guy, it's not the biggest difference...my bigger concern with the 764 is the comfort (or lacktherof) when the seat is upright...feels very uncomfortable then (when reclined, it feels fine).

Jeff
 
DL4EVR
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RE: DL 764 BizElite Conversions

Mon May 22, 2006 3:10 am

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 9):
I've always felt that I've had quite a bit more room on the MD-88 (unless I'm in 1C/D...feels very cramped there

Gotta agree with you on that one. 1C sucks. Not only the legroom...the distance from the lav... vomit 
We Love To Fly And It Shows.
 
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fanoftristars
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RE: DL 764 BizElite Conversions

Mon May 22, 2006 3:38 am

7E & 7F are great. I think what makes the seats seem smaller than, say, the 767-300 domestic, is the console between seats that holds the seat monitors. But let me tell you, I've flown in several seats in the front of the 764, and ALL of them are far better than coach. I did an award ticket, SLC-ATL, flew coach. On the way home, I missed my flight and ended up flying standby on flight 520, and ended up trading a lady my 11C so I could sit in her 47D to be next to a friend in 47E... Dear lord, that is just no fun!
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
Evan767
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RE: DL 764 BizElite Conversions

Mon May 22, 2006 4:16 am

Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 3):
Yeah they so Horrid I just don't know how anyone in the world flies them...



Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 8):
Its odd, Delta's 764s seem very crowded and CO's 764s seem so roomy

Guys, the reason that DL's 764's first class seems so bad is because you compare it with CO's too much. The 764's were ordered to replace the L10's on DOMESTIC routes. CO uses their 764's on international routes. This is why DL's 764's BF (BusinessFirst) seems so bad. CO uses their 764's on very long routes such as IAH-Europe, and they want pax to be comfortable so they make a nice business product. DL's 764's go mainly on domestic runs around 1700-2500 miles long. Compared to other airlines domestic firsts on these type of routes, I would say DL has a SPECTACULAR domestic first product.

Now DL is sending some 764's transatlantic. Don't worry they are reconfiguring them to be on par with transatlantic business class service. DON'T BE FOOLED when you compare DL with CO.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
deltagator
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RE: DL 764 BizElite Conversions

Mon May 22, 2006 5:46 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 8):
Its odd, Delta's 764s seem very crowded and CO's 764s seem so roomy,

Uhmmm...that might be because DL has 6 across in the F cabin on the 764 while CO has 5 across on their 764s.

As has been said you can't compare the two currently since they have two different purposes in their respective fleets. Compare them again when the DL birds are converted to BizElite.

Quoting Fanoftristars (Reply 11):
7E & 7F are great.

Tough to get on the flights to/from Hawaii since they are set aside as pilot rest. But on domestic routes I alwats do my best to snag them. They have almost the same amount of pitch as the BizElite planes.

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 6):
I've found MD-88s to be the best, followed by 763s, then 757s, then 764s and finally 737-200s

I find the 732s quite roomy for some reason. I would say for me it is 757, 732/MD-88 (tied), 738, then the 764. Honestly though, any of them up front is a world better than back in Steerage.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
positiverate
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RE: DL 764 BizElite Conversions

Mon May 22, 2006 5:54 am

Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 3):
Yeah they so Horrid I just don't know how anyone in the world flies them...

For a 9 hour overnight flight, in a F seat that I think is extremely narrow and has crappy pitch, yes, I do think they are "horrid". If you want to be a wiseass about it go right ahead, but I'm the one who is paying for it and has to sit in it. What's the big deal if I want a BizElite seat instead?
 
dutchjet
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RE: DL 764 BizElite Conversions

Mon May 22, 2006 6:11 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 12):

Guys, the reason that DL's 764's first class seems so bad is because you compare it with CO's too much. The 764's were ordered to replace the L10's on DOMESTIC routes. CO uses their 764's on international routes. This is why DL's 764's BF (BusinessFirst) seems so bad. CO uses their 764's on very long routes such as IAH-Europe, and they want pax to be comfortable so they make a nice business product. DL's 764's go mainly on domestic runs around 1700-2500 miles long. Compared to other airlines domestic firsts on these type of routes, I would say DL has a SPECTACULAR domestic first product.

Now DL is sending some 764's transatlantic. Don't worry they are reconfiguring them to be on par with transatlantic business class service. DON'T BE FOOLED when you compare DL with CO.

I am aware that CO's 764s are configured for international travel'(I should know, I have logged enough hours on them) and DL's 764s in the current setup is a domestic aircraft. I stick with my opinon, DL's 764s have one lousy F class cabin. You are free to disagree with me, of course, but the F cabin just feels wrong on this aircraft. It will be interesting to see how the biz elite upgrade works out.

Delta has a spectacular F class product? You gotta be kidding me, Delta's domestic F class product, in its current format, is an embarrassment. Delta has done better in the past and hopefully will do better in the future.
 
deltagator
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RE: DL 764 BizElite Conversions

Mon May 22, 2006 6:20 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 15):
Delta's domestic F class product, in its current format, is an embarrassment.

While not great does anyone else have a domestic First product world's better? I can't think of any as most of them are pretty much the same. I've been underwhelmed by Continental, American, and United. I haven't been on USAir in many years so I can't speak to their domestic product up front.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
DL787932ER
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RE: DL 764 BizElite Conversions

Mon May 22, 2006 6:26 am

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 14):
For a 9 hour overnight flight, in a F seat

The point being made is that for purposes of trans-Atlantic flights, it's not an F seat, it's a Y seat. You pay a Y fare and get Y service, and you get the bonus of a wider seat with more pitch than standard Y seats if you paid full fare and/or have elite status. You don't get a BizElite seat because you didn't have to pay for or upgrade to BizElite. It's a free benefit sort of like getting an exit row.

If you pay a BizElite fare, you'd take a 763ER or 772 that already has BizElite, and get a BizElite seat and BizElite service. AFAIK the 764s are only used this summer to double or triple up on routes that are also served with 763/772s so the BE option is available for those who want it.
F L Y D E L T A J E T S
 
dutchjet
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RE: DL 764 BizElite Conversions

Mon May 22, 2006 6:30 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 16):

While not great does anyone else have a domestic First product world's better? I can't think of any as most of them are pretty much the same. I've been underwhelmed by Continental, American, and United. I haven't been on USAir in many years so I can't speak to their domestic product up front.

I have had better experience with CO and AA domestic F product in recent years......personal opinion. As I said, DL was so much better and hopefully will improve in the near term future.
 
sfotraveler
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RE: DL 764 BizElite Conversions

Mon May 22, 2006 6:54 am

Really everybody I know that is a Delta FF hates the first class section on the 764. It is cramped compared older 763's or 757s. Think it has something to do with the entertainment system. I am not a big guy and it is really uncomfortable. It is bad enough on a domestic flight but would totally suck overseas. Also, I agree Delta's domestic first class product is definitely inferior to the other majors in all respects.
 
DL4EVR
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RE: DL 764 BizElite Conversions

Mon May 22, 2006 7:04 am

Quoting SFOtraveler (Reply 19):
Also, I agree Delta's domestic first class product is definitely inferior to the other majors in all respects.

All temporary...
We Love To Fly And It Shows.
 
flybaby
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RE: DL 764 BizElite Conversions

Mon May 22, 2006 7:07 am

Have they installed the new AVOD and new BizElite seats on the 777 yet?... I am flying next week.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: DL 764 BizElite Conversions

Mon May 22, 2006 9:36 am

Why can't anybody accept that comparing Delta's 767-400ERs with Continental's is NOT a fair comparison. Delta's 767-400ERs were designed to replace the L-1011s on DOMESTIC routes, while Continental's are configured for international dutes. It is comparing apples and oranges.

A better comparison would be with Continental's 757-300s, which fly similar routes to Delta's 767-400ERs (except Hawaii), and American's A300s. Delta's 767-400ERs really beat Continental's 757-300s, and kill AA's A300s.
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
 
deltagator
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RE: DL 764 BizElite Conversions

Mon May 22, 2006 9:50 am

Quoting SFOtraveler (Reply 19):
Really everybody I know that is a Delta FF hates the first class section on the 764.

I'm a GM and I never complain about sitting up front in any plane, 764s included.

Quoting SFOtraveler (Reply 19):
It is cramped compared older 763's or 757s.

I'll give you the 757 as their seats are wider. The 764s are no more cramped than a 763 in domestic configuration.

Quoting SFOtraveler (Reply 19):
Think it has something to do with the entertainment system.

The seat width remains the same compared to the other domestic 763 planes.

Quoting SFOtraveler (Reply 19):
Also, I agree Delta's domestic first class product is definitely inferior to the other majors in all respects.

Please enlightn us with some examples of better product in a domestic carrier. As I said earlier I have been underwhelmed by UA, AA, and CO in domestic First.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: DL 764 BizElite Conversions

Mon May 22, 2006 10:00 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 23):
The seat width remains the same compared to the other domestic 763 planes.

In fact, according to SeatGuru, the INTERNATIONAL 767-300ERs have the same width of 18.5 in. They have more pitch however.

I looked through an archive of Delta's website, and compared the 767-400ER first class seats to those of the L-1011-250. The L-1011's F seats were 1 inch wider, but had 1-2 inches less pitch, and NO PTVs!
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
 
Evan767
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RE: DL 764 BizElite Conversions

Mon May 22, 2006 10:48 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 22):
Why can't anybody accept that comparing Delta's 767-400ERs with Continental's is NOT a fair comparison. Delta's 767-400ERs were designed to replace the L-1011s on DOMESTIC routes, while Continental's are configured for international dutes. It is comparing apples and oranges.

See reply 12.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
positiverate
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RE: DL 764 BizElite Conversions

Tue May 23, 2006 12:12 am

Quoting DL787932ER (Reply 17):
The point being made is that for purposes of trans-Atlantic flights, it's not an F seat, it's a Y seat. You pay a Y fare and get Y service, and you get the bonus of a wider seat with more pitch than standard Y seats if you paid full fare and/or have elite status. You don't get a BizElite seat because you didn't have to pay for or upgrade to BizElite. It's a free benefit sort of like getting an exit row.

If you pay a BizElite fare, you'd take a 763ER or 772 that already has BizElite, and get a BizElite seat and BizElite service. AFAIK the 764s are only used this summer to double or triple up on routes that are also served with 763/772s so the BE option is available for those who want it.

I completely understand the point that was being made. The point I was making was in response to a sarcastic comment about their F seats being horrid. The other point I was making was that, while I would prefer the later flights outbound and inbound, I would go earlier if the mods had not been done yet to the 764's.

I completely understand the fare situation, and was simply asking if the mods had been done yet on any of the 764's. As far as "you pay a Y fare for the seat" argument, when I checked the fares online it was actually more to fly on the 764 then it was on BizElite on the ER or the 777.
 
papatango
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RE: DL 764 BizElite Conversions

Tue May 23, 2006 12:21 am

Does anyone know what the configuration will be ie #be seats # y seats?

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