MAH4546
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Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Mon May 22, 2006 12:06 am

This one comes out from left-field:

Eff. 4 December 2006:

NK 231 ATL 0650-0810 MCO 319 Daily
NK 238 MCO 2030-2155 ATL 319 Daily

Spirit Airlines already offers daily Fort Lauderdale-Atlanta service.

From Orlando they also fly to Atlantic City, Detroit, New York City-LaGuardia, and San Juan. However, recently launched service to Montego Bay and Nassau were both very short lived.
a.
 
md90fan
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Mon May 22, 2006 12:08 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
Spirit Airlines already offers daily Fort Lauderdale-Atlanta service.

I take it, FLL-ATL did better than FLL-DFW  wink 

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
Nassau

There was enough competition on these routes, so NK didnt help.
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dartland
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Mon May 22, 2006 12:16 am

I believe MCO-ATL was the number 1 most traveled domestic route (pax volume) in 2005 (souce:bts.gov). I'm sure it was low yielding due to high connecting passenger % and mostly leisure pax, but still...no reason for NK not to get in on some of the action.
 
DLX737200
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Mon May 22, 2006 12:27 am

Very Surprising... I don't see the need for more service MCO-ATL. Surely there isn't enough O&D to support this for Spirit. For FL and DL, there are connecting passengers, for Spirit there will not be. I wish the times of the flights were opposite so I could use Spirit for a cheap day trip to ATL.
 
srbmod
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Mon May 22, 2006 12:58 am

I guess with DL taking just about all of the widebodies off the route (This route used to be pretty much all widebodies [They used to even have several 777 turns and MD-11s back when they were still in the fleet] with maybe a 752 or MD-88 thrown in early in the morning or late at night), there must be demand on the route that is not being met by FL or DL. FL only has so many 73Gs they can dedicate to some of their more heavily traveled routes, so they probably can't make ATL-MCO-ATL all 73G just yet.

What's interesting, at least with DL, the ATL-MCO flights aren't always full, it's the MCO-ATL flights. I tried once to non-rev on DL back to ATL from MCO, and ended up going back via TLH because there weren't any available seats until the 9 o'clock MCO-ATL flight, and this was @ around 1 pm (I could have taken an MCO-JFK flight [At the time this was a 777 flight] and done JFK-ATL, but the JFK-ATL flight was looking real iffy [The last time I had tried this routing, I got lucky and got the very last seat in BusinessElite {The other standbys were pairs}]).
 
B777-700
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Mon May 22, 2006 1:02 am

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 4):
I guess with DL taking just about all of the widebodies off the route

Huh? 11 flights a day and 6 are 767's.
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
srbmod
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Mon May 22, 2006 1:39 am

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 5):

Huh? 11 flights a day and 6 are 767's.

At one point it was all widebodies.......
 
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litz
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Mon May 22, 2006 1:49 am

It'll be interesting to see how the MCO-ATL legs for all airlines pan out, once DL's international push really gets going. Remember, just 'cause you fly DL to ATL, doesn't mean you have to book DL to MCO ... and with DL's reduced capacity to MCO, you may have to choose another carrier if the flights are full. Even with Spirit adding a 319, I can easily see there being enough pie to go around the table ...

MCO is one of the top destinations for international travellers. Just look at the # of charter 747s that land there, direct from Europe.

I wonder if we'll see a seasonal push over summer, as all the US schools are out, and then late summer when all the Europeans go on vacation ...

Plus the Euro buys a LOT of dollars right now ...

- litz
 
B777-700
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Mon May 22, 2006 2:18 am

Quoting Litz (Reply 7):
Remember, just 'cause you fly DL to ATL, doesn't mean you have to book DL to MCO

Only if you don't want to go back thru security, claim your bags, and re check in, and go back thru security.

Or only if you like bouncing back and forth between your airlines in irop situations.

But some people like pain I guess.
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Mon May 22, 2006 2:22 am

Very strange indeed, what can Spirit gain by offering one flight per day on this highly travelled route? With essentially no connection possibilities, I guess that they are hoping to pick up some O&D traffic between the two cities, but one flight per day in a market like this usually does not work.....with the rather inconvenient schedules, are these flights going to be filled with pax on super bargain fares? Whats the point of that in these times?

NK seems to be having difficult expanding and finding (niche) markets to exploit. Its troubling.......with all of those new Airbus planes, Spirit needs to find routes where they can make some real money and increase yields, or they are going to run into a problem. There carib/latin america expansion out of FLL seems to have stalled.....and going against DL and AA on routes into their hub cities is also not the answer.
 
Evan767
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Mon May 22, 2006 4:24 am

HAH, good luck with that, especially at those oddball times.  Yeah sure
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DAL767400ER
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Mon May 22, 2006 4:51 am

So NK will now have 2 RONs at ATL?!? Doesn't seem too logical, given that MCO probably has more gate space, plus is probably cheaper for RONs.
 
SESGDL
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Mon May 22, 2006 4:55 am

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 5):
Huh? 11 flights a day and 6 are 767's.

In June it'll be 13 daily flights, 7 of which are widebodies.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 6):
At one point it was all widebodies.......

Never, DL has always had a mix of narrowbodies and widebodies. ATL-MCO hasn't been changed really in the past 10 years in terms of capacity. I remember in 2000 DL having 15 daily ATL-MCO flights, but 4-5 of them were MD-80s and 757s in addition to L-1011s and 767s.

Jeremy
 
MAH4546
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Mon May 22, 2006 5:01 am

Quoting Dartland (Reply 2):
I believe MCO-ATL was the number 1 most traveled domestic route (pax volume) in 2005 (souce:bts.gov).

Yes, but O&D is more important than critical pax volume, especially since there are no connection possibilities here sans ATL-MCO-SJU. NYC, Miami/Fort Lauderdale, and Chicago are Atlanta's biggest O&D markets.

Quoting Litz (Reply 7):

MCO is one of the top destinations for international travellers. Just look at the # of charter 747s that land there, direct from Europe.

Make that MCO is a top destination for British tourists. The reality is that outside of tourism from UK, there is little European vacation traffic to the region. Also, charter airlines fly to SFB, very few, if any, are left at SFB.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 9):
There carib/latin america expansion out of FLL seems to have stalled.....and going against DL and AA on routes into their hub cities is also not the answer.

It hasn't stalled at all. It is simply illogical to expand into the Caribbean market during the summer, not to mention that the MD80s are currently leaving the fleet faster than 319/321s are coming, so they have less aircraft until the fall. About four-six cities will be launched from FLL in winter 06/07.
a.
 
srbmod
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Mon May 22, 2006 5:15 am

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 12):
I remember in 2000 DL having 15 daily ATL-MCO flights, but 4-5 of them were MD-80s and 757s in addition to L-1011s and 767s.

There was at least one 777 flight (routed ATL-MCO-JFK-MCO-ATL) that became two 777 flights once MCO-JFK went to Delta Express that fall, and after they started to retire the L-1011s, they also had a few MD-11s on the route as well. Nearly all of the narrowbody flights were the morning and late evening flights.
 
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Mon May 22, 2006 5:19 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
Also, charter airlines fly to SFB, very few, if any, are left at SFB.

Seems like a contradiction in itself  Silly . j/k, I know that the latter was meant to be MCO.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
Make that MCO is a top destination for British tourists. The reality is that outside of tourism from UK, there is little European vacation traffic to the region

Indeed. IIRC, the only non-UK charter carriers to Orlando are Martin-Air and Condor, and that's it. Exaggerating a bit, probably 9 out of 10 charter flights from Europe to Orlando come from the UK, not counting the scheduled flights by VS and BA to MCO.
 
NKMCO
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Mon May 22, 2006 5:31 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
This one comes out from left-field:

Eff. 4 December 2006:

NK 231 ATL 0650-0810 MCO 319 Daily
NK 238 MCO 2030-2155 ATL 319 Daily

Where did you get this information? It's nowhere to be found in Spirit res system.
 
NKMCO
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Mon May 22, 2006 5:33 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
However, recently launched service to Montego Bay and Nassau

Montego Bay yes - the loads were very light. Nassau never came to life for MCO though - shortage of aircrafts.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Mon May 22, 2006 5:38 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 15):

Indeed. IIRC, the only non-UK charter carriers to Orlando are Martin-Air and Condor, and that's it.

Indeed, though neither are charters. Condor and Martinair Holland's MCO service is scheduled service.
a.
 
FutureFO
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Mon May 22, 2006 5:40 am

Where does NK park in ATL. I have never seen them there at all.



Sean from MCO and SDF
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DAL767400ER
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Mon May 22, 2006 5:50 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):
Condor and Martinair Holland's MCO service is scheduled service.

Might be scheduled, but at least Condor is officially a charter airline, even if some of their charters are scheduled.

Quoting FutureFO (Reply 19):
Where does NK park in ATL. I have never seen them there at all.

They should be somewhere in the middle of Concourse D. As to why you've never seen them, it's probably because the current flight to/from FLL arrives at ATL pretty late, and also departs very early. Not a long time to catch it.
 
SESGDL
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Mon May 22, 2006 6:15 am

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 14):
There was at least one 777 flight (routed ATL-MCO-JFK-MCO-ATL) that became two 777 flights once MCO-JFK went to Delta Express that fall, and after they started to retire the L-1011s, they also had a few MD-11s on the route as well. Nearly all of the narrowbody flights were the morning and late evening flights.

You do realize that the 767-400 holds more than the 777 in DL's config. Though the 777 is bigger than the 764, a 777 to a 764 is a capacity upgrade.

Jeremy
 
Humberside
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Mon May 22, 2006 6:24 am

Martinair offer connections to Costa Rica dont they at MCO?

Does this new Spirit service connect to MCO-SJU service to offer a ATL-MCO-SJU service (instead of connecting at FLL). Its the only reason I can think of for why Spirit would launch ATL-MCO
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FlyPNS1
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Mon May 22, 2006 6:38 am

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 12):
Never, DL has always had a mix of narrowbodies and widebodies. ATL-MCO hasn't been changed really in the past 10 years in terms of capacity.

I found a printed DL timetable from June 2004:

ATL-MCO 6/2004 (weekday)

12 flights total (7x763, 1x777, 3x764, 1xMD88)
Total seats: 3,029

ATL-MCO 6/2006 (weekday)
12 flights total (5x763, 2x764, 4x757, 1xMD88)
Total seats: 2,692

That's about a 11% drop in capacity, caused mostly by going from almost all widebody to a more balanced mix of widebody/narrowbody. In fact, the only narrowbody (MD88) was a late night flight that left ATL around 11:30 pm...arriving into MCO near 1am.
 
FutureFO
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Mon May 22, 2006 8:14 am

Have not even seen a checkin counter at ATL for NK. And have not seen them on the Concourse listings at each Train stop. We used to park in the D gates with NW/FL/CO/US.



Sean from MCO and SDF
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srbmod
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Mon May 22, 2006 8:37 am

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 21):
Quoting Srbmod (Reply 14):
There was at least one 777 flight (routed ATL-MCO-JFK-MCO-ATL) that became two 777 flights once MCO-JFK went to Delta Express that fall, and after they started to retire the L-1011s, they also had a few MD-11s on the route as well. Nearly all of the narrowbody flights were the morning and late evening flights.

You do realize that the 767-400 holds more than the 777 in DL's config. Though the 777 is bigger than the 764, a 777 to a 764 is a capacity upgrade.

During the time period I was referring to (August/September 2000), DL had yet to put the 764 into service (First revenue flight was Oct. 1, 2000).
 
stirling
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Mon May 22, 2006 8:52 am

Not a very leisure friendly schedule....Fine, if your schedule includes flights at other times of the day....for an only choice, I wouldn't book it, unless they had the lowest price and I was riding a razor thin budget.

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
NK 238 MCO 2030-2155 ATL 319 Daily

Check-out time at the hotels is between 1100 and 1300....so anyone booking this flight has a long time to wait before leaving.....I guess they could ask their hotel/motel to hang on to their luggage while making one more dash through the theme park? Or just leave it in the rental car if they have one.....

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
NK 231 ATL 0650-0810 MCO 319 Daily

Same thing....Check-in is usually between 1200 and 1500. Hope the hotel/motel will let you drop off your stuff to go play.

All in all, pretty lousy times. Should've scheduled something during the middle of the day....but I guess I can understand increasing the fleet utilization.
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MaverickM11
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Mon May 22, 2006 11:15 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 10):
good luck with that, especially at those oddball times.

It looks like it's just free aircraft time in Orlando on an a/c that normally would just overnight in MCO. If sending it to ATL generates more revenue than parking it in MCO than it'll do fine. The revenue bar is not too high here--it's not like it's a mid day turn.
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LawnDart
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Mon May 22, 2006 12:21 pm

Appears the MCO-ATL leg hasn't been loaded in the SpiritAir.com schedule yet, but I'm wondering if, depending on how the ATL-FLL segment is doing, this could be a combination of the FLL-MCO and FLL-ATL segments.

If FLL-ATL isn't doing so well, why not fly FLL-MCO-ATL...you still have connection possibilities from the Carib thru FLL to ATL (albeit with a stop on the way), and you free up aircraft time to do something else (the a/c that was originally used for FLL-ATL).
 
WesternA318
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Mon May 22, 2006 12:25 pm

YAY! Yet another way of avoiding DL into ATL/MCO...sweet...
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MAH4546
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Mon May 22, 2006 5:47 pm

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 20):

Might be scheduled, but at least Condor is officially a charter airline, even if some of their charters are scheduled.

Condor has positioned themselves as a holiday airline, like LTU and Martinair Holland, and the leisure arm of Lufthansa, like Lauda is to Austrian. Most of their services are scheduled flights, bookable on any GDS system just like a Lufthansa flight. In fact, Condor is part of the Star Alliance, and you can book their flights via Lufthansa's website.

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 28):

If FLL-ATL isn't doing so well, why not fly FLL-MCO-ATL...you still have connection possibilities from the Carib thru FLL to ATL (albeit with a stop on the way), and you free up aircraft time to do something else (the a/c that was originally used for FLL-ATL).

FLL-ATL is doing quite well.

Quoting Humberside (Reply 22):
Does this new Spirit service connect to MCO-SJU service to offer a ATL-MCO-SJU service (instead of connecting at FLL). Its the only reason I can think of for why Spirit would launch ATL-MCO

Yes, it connects to SJU, but so does ATL-FLL.
a.
 
NKMCO
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Mon May 22, 2006 6:00 pm

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 28):
Appears the MCO-ATL leg hasn't been loaded in the SpiritAir.com schedule yet, but I'm wondering if, depending on how the ATL-FLL segment is doing, this could be a combination of the FLL-MCO and FLL-ATL segments.

I don't know where this information came from but there is no mention of ATL-MCO in the internal planning structure. The only planning that is finalized is through the mid August.
 
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deltadawg
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Mon May 22, 2006 9:20 pm

Yeah, yet another airline that making a mistake. Do they really think that Delta and AirTran are going to rollover and let another company come into ATL and take a share of this. This is yet another JetBlue, aka ATL-LGB. I give this route it 4-5 months tops.
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MAH4546
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Mon May 22, 2006 10:24 pm

Quoting NKMCO (Reply 31):

I don't know where this information came from but there is no mention of ATL-MCO in the internal planning structure. The only planning that is finalized is through the mid August.

It is bookable on just about any public GDS system, including Amadeus.
a.
 
NKMCO
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Mon May 22, 2006 11:33 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 33):
It is bookable on just about any public GDS system, including Amadeus.

Interesting... It's not in Spirit's system. So you can book it on e.g. Orbitz, but not on spiritair.com - something a bit fishy.
 
FutureFO
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Tue May 23, 2006 9:10 am

The ATL website does not even show NK operating into the airport. Are we sure that it is .



Sean from MCO and SDF
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dutchjet
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Tue May 23, 2006 5:02 pm

Quoting FutureFO (Reply 35):
The ATL website does not even show NK operating into the airport. Are we sure that it is .



Sean from MCO and SDF

Spirit has been operating an ATL-FLL service, so they do operate in ATL.
 
FutureFO
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Tue May 23, 2006 7:53 pm

Like I said if you go to ATL's websote and check arrival info it does not show NK as operating into the airport.


Sean
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DAL767400ER
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Wed May 24, 2006 1:35 am

Well, you'd have to check the times late in the evening to catch spirit, and limiting the search down to the city pair, FLL in this case, increases the chance to find the flight. That said, Spirit is shown under "Airlines at HJAIA" under "Airport Info". They are in the North Terminal, however no Concourse is given, but it is obvious that they are at D.
 
ScottB
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Wed May 24, 2006 1:51 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 27):
The revenue bar is not too high here--it's not like it's a mid day turn.

No, but you do need to at least make back the direct operating costs of the flight -- fuel, crew pay, landing fees, maintenance due to two cycles on the airframe, booking costs, etc. I think they're going to have to offer rock-bottom fares to take passengers away from DL & FL, and I doubt they'll get the loads they need to recover the direct costs of the flight at those fares.

Quoting Litz (Reply 7):
Remember, just 'cause you fly DL to ATL, doesn't mean you have to book DL to MCO ... and with DL's reduced capacity to MCO, you may have to choose another carrier if the flights are full. Even with Spirit adding a 319, I can easily see there being enough pie to go around the table ...

So you seem to think that international passengers via ATL are going to wait around overnight in both directions, given that Spirit's flight departs ATL at 0650 and arrives ATL at 2155?
 
N587NK
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Wed May 24, 2006 3:25 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 38):
but it is obvious that they are at D.

actually a few months ago it changed to E34, Im not sure for how long, a memo stated that we were moving to E34 until further notice
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Wed May 24, 2006 4:41 am

Quoting N587NK (Reply 40):
actually a few months ago it changed to E34, Im not sure for how long, a memo stated that we were moving to E34 until further notice

Hmm, only reason I could see for this is that at Concourse D there's simply not enough gate space for NK to RON their plane there. Although HJAIA prefers to keep all non-DL domestic flights strictly out of E.
 
nkops
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Wed May 24, 2006 6:44 am

Quoting NKMCO (Reply 34):
Interesting... It's not in Spirit's system. So you can book it on e.g. Orbitz, but not on spiritair.com - something a bit fishy.

Agree... saw it on Orbitz, but not in avail. or in future sked.... I guess we'll see though!!
:evil:
 
srbmod
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Wed May 24, 2006 9:44 am

Quoting FutureFO (Reply 37):
Like I said if you go to ATL's websote and check arrival info it does not show NK as operating into the airport.

From the flight information page:

Each individual airline is responsible for updating the flight information pertaining to its flights. Please contact your individual airline or travel agent if you have any questions or uncertainty regarding your flight.




They list them on the "Passenger Airlines At Hartsfield" page though.
 
PVD757
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Wed May 24, 2006 10:24 pm

It's an aircraft utilization improvement effort. The FLL-MCO flight arrived in MCO before 8pm and sat until 9 the next morning - now NK will send that aircraft to ATL and back the next morning to fetch whatever revenue it can versus having the aircraft sit in MCO doing nothing. MCO does provide an alternative SJU conection besides the FLL one in both directions but it's a 3+ hour wait in MCO each way.

I suspect we will see the FLL-TPA aircraft do the same thing or something similar...
 
7e72004
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Wed May 24, 2006 10:34 pm

I sense FL will be adding some flights soon  Big grin
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
PVD757
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Thu May 25, 2006 2:25 am

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 44):
suspect we will see the FLL-TPA aircraft do the same thing or something similar...

heck, NK could do the same thing with the aircraft that sits in ATL from FLL now - maybe to ACY or MYR...
 
nkops
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Thu May 25, 2006 2:51 am

Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 45):
I sense FL will be adding some flights soon

I'm sure that FL could care less about our 1 flight a day to ATL from MCO or anywhere else for that matter.

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 46):
ATL from FLL now - maybe to ACY or MYR

Not ACY... the times would almost be identical as ASA's ATL-ACY...
:evil:
 
PVD757
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Thu May 25, 2006 5:52 am

Quoting Nkops (Reply 47):
Not ACY... the times would almost be identical as ASA's ATL-ACY...

NK with NK plus on a 319 in a market they 'own' (ACY) versus an ASA CRJ. Granted the beyond ATL traffic for DL is uncomparable, but NK ould easily grab the local market with no more than a wimper from DL. I doubt DL would barnstorm into ACY-ATL with a M80 response...
 
SESGDL
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RE: Spirit To Start MCO-ATL

Thu May 25, 2006 6:26 am

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 48):
NK with NK plus on a 319 in a market they 'own' (ACY) versus an ASA CRJ. Granted the beyond ATL traffic for DL is uncomparable, but NK ould easily grab the local market with no more than a wimper from DL. I doubt DL would barnstorm into ACY-ATL with a M80 response...

I think that DL throwing in a 73S or an MD-88 wouldn't be unlikely. And the flying public really doesn't care about equipment of a flight, the average person goes off of price and time, a CRJ to an A319 isn't important. They wouldn't know the difference between the two anyway.

Jeremy