Lumberton
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Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Mon May 22, 2006 2:31 am

http://business.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=755592006
It seems that not all are welcoming the latest announcement by Airbus that they will consider design changes. The A350's largest customer to date (or potential customer) is making noises that it will have to delay signing until the design is firmed up. Doesn't sound happy about the possible delay in EIS either....

Quote:
Analysts said that, if Airbus switched to an all-new design, customers would probably have to wait an extra two years, until 2012.
"However, this puts us in a dilemma, because we will get an aeroplane nearly ... two years later than originally envisaged," said Baker.
"And of course we will have to go to the market and buy aeroplanes that would fill in the gap, or else even look at an alternative because airlines cannot freeze their plans because a manufacturer cannot deliver in the time that we require.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
jacobin777
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Mon May 22, 2006 4:19 am

to me it seems they are just waiting for the final specs.......it's a prudent move they are making....

also, they would be ver embarrassed to cancel their 787 slots, go for the A350 and then say........."whoops, we made a mistake"...only to get 787 slots a few years after they orginally got slots...

my take.....they will go with the A350
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scbriml
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Mon May 22, 2006 4:27 am

They have been saying for some time that they would sing a firm order once Airbus freezes the A350 design. With the current review ongoing, QR is absolutely right to wait.

Their obvious problem is that they want the planes sooner rather than later. Being an existing A330 and A340 customer, my guess is that Airbus will do a deal offering them some A330s or A340s in the short term till the A350s are delivered. Would make reasonable sense for both.
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Stitch
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Mon May 22, 2006 4:30 am

If the A350MkV-1000 plays in the 777-300ER's and A340-600's sandbox, then QR is better off waiting to see if Airbus actually launches it.
 
dalecary
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Mon May 22, 2006 7:50 am

It begs the question why did QR originally commit to the A350.

They had 787 slots. That is a fact.

In the article Al-Baker states that Airbus didn't do their homework very well with the original A350 concept. Huh! But it was good enough for QR to ditch the 787 and sign an LoI with Airbus for up to 60 A350s. There's more than meets the eye here IMO.
 
leelaw
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Mon May 22, 2006 8:01 am

"Airbus tried to put up a product as a reaction to the 787 and I don't think they did their homework properly," he said.

Who did Mr. Al-Baker's homework when he made his purchase decision?
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jacobin777
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Mon May 22, 2006 8:05 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 5):
Who did Mr. Al-Baker's homework when he made his purchase decision?

someone @ QR has a lot of explaining to do..... Smile
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atmx2000
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Mon May 22, 2006 9:39 am

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 4):
It begs the question why did QR originally commit to the A350.

A question without clear answers. It should be noted that HGW 787-9 variant was not or offered at the time, nor was the 787-9 EIS set in stone. Also, Boeing hadn't yet optimized internal cabin width last summer, so 9 abreast was not as attractive. A 250 pax aircraft seating 8 abreast in economy and offerring 8600nm+ range looked comparable to a similar sized 787-9 seating 8 abreast in economy with 8000-8300nm range. The A350 launch pushed Boeing to finish definition of the stretch model and commit to its earlier release.


Quoting Scbriml (Reply 2):
They have been saying for some time that they would sing a firm order once Airbus freezes the A350 design. With the current review ongoing, QR is absolutely right to wait.

I think one can be more blunt and say it would be stupid to do otherwise.

Quote:
Their obvious problem is that they want the planes sooner rather than later. Being an existing A330 and A340 customer, my guess is that Airbus will do a deal offering them some A330s or A340s in the short term till the A350s are delivered. Would make reasonable sense for both.

They don't operate A340s yet. The only reason for them to take A340s is if they do decide to go for A340NGs over the 777LR.

Anyway, I expect at this point QR/al Baker will want to save face and won't order the 787. Whether they order the A340NG or the 777LR will depend on what type of fuel cost guarantees Airbus will offer to hedgeless QR.
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BoomBoom
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Mon May 22, 2006 3:46 pm

Quote:
"We have not signed a purchase agreement because" we cannot "purchase an airplane which is undefined," Baker said in an interview.

"The definition will change, the performance will change, the fuel burn will change. So many things will change that the airplane that we signed for in last September is not there anymore," he said. "So we have to, of course, review all our options."

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/05/21/business/qatar.php
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Thorben
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Mon May 22, 2006 4:20 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 7):
They don't operate A340s yet. The only reason for them to take A340s is if they do decide to go for A340NGs over the 777LR.

Anyway, I expect at this point QR/al Baker will want to save face and won't order the 787. Whether they order the A340NG or the 777LR will depend on what type of fuel cost guarantees Airbus will offer to hedgeless QR.

They will get their first A346s very soon. They have four on order.

The only reason ever to think about T7s was probably the 777F. But when Airbus comes out with the A332F, then QR will probably stay with Airbus.

Fuel cost guarantees? Ask PIA about the 772LR.

Back to the subject: Obviously they need to review their order when Airbus changes the plane and the delivery dates. What's the big deal? Their order wasn't very firm, IIRC. And Airbus hasn't decided yet what they'll do. Questions like what to do with current A350 customers will influence their decision.
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leelaw
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Mon May 22, 2006 5:23 pm

Flight International, 23 May 2006 by Max Kingsley-Jones/Doha

Launch customer frustrated by uncertainty over twinjet's configuration and Airbus's expected rethink of design

"...We are launch customer for an aircraft that, other than its model number, does not now exist. Qatar Airlways is very unhappy about this," says Al-Baker. He questions how Airbus will "address this issue with A350 customers who have placed deposits."


Dialing for dollars?
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PM
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Mon May 22, 2006 5:29 pm

If QR are clever, they'll turn this to their advantage. With 60 or so orders waiting to be signed off, they are in a very strong position to influence some of the changes Airbus make to the A350. The price is a longer wait but they may end up with an aeroplane optimised ideally to their needs.
 
keesje
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Mon May 22, 2006 5:33 pm

I expect all A350 customer may to review it's A350 orders / contracts. Specifications, delivery date, many things will change.

How is it possible not to review in this situation, or with every design alteration in that respect?
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
atmx2000
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Mon May 22, 2006 5:55 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 9):
Fuel cost guarantees? Ask PIA about the 772LR.

Cling to that hope Thorben.  Wink

Quoting Keesje (Reply 12):
I expect all A350 customer may to review it's A350 orders / contracts. Specifications, delivery date, many things will change.

How is it possible not to review in this situation, or with every design alteration in that respect?

They'll try and put Airbus through the ringer, but some of them aren't credible potential Boeing customers and others will be embarrassed about ordering an aircraft model that other airlines and lessors have rejected so stridently. The lessors aren't going anywhere either. I expect Airbus to retain the vast majority of the existing firm orders. My prediction for the airline most likely to consider Boeing: US under Parker.
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Lumberton
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Mon May 22, 2006 7:20 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 13):
They'll try and put Airbus through the ringer, but some of them aren't credible potential Boeing customers and others will be embarrassed about ordering an aircraft model that other airlines and lessors have rejected so stridently. The lessors aren't going anywhere either. I expect Airbus to retain the vast majority of the existing firm orders. My prediction for the airline most likely to consider Boeing: US under Parker.

WRT U.S. Air, I suspect that the loans made to US while in Chapter 11 may require them to stay with the A350. But that's only speculation. I agree with the rest of your post; I don't see the original customers for the A350 going to Boeing. It would be too great a loss of face and would call into question the judgement of the people who made the decisions. However, we'll probably hear a lot of noise....
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
atmx2000
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Mon May 22, 2006 7:41 pm

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 14):
WRT U.S. Air, I suspect that the loans made to US while in Chapter 11 may require them to stay with the A350. But that's only speculation. I agree with the rest of your post; I don't see the original customers for the A350 going to Boeing. It would be too great a loss of face and would call into question the judgement of the people who made the decisions. However, we'll probably hear a lot of noise....

The US order was predicated on Airbus meeting specifications, including I believe delivery dates. The delay could throw a wrench into that order. And if Airbus ends up offering a bigger plane than the originally proposed A350, I can see US walking away. Unlike with the other airlines who chose the A350, it was clear that Chapter 11 exit financing and Airbus's flexibility with regards to delivery schedules and deposits for existing orders had a lot to do with the A350 order.
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keesje
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Mon May 22, 2006 8:07 pm

for most airlines Airbus will probably compensate

e.g. the cost of flying 330/340s longer

So compensate for the lost cost reductions (fuel, maintenance etc.)

That is an Airbus advantage many here continue to underestimate

a workable fleet plan for airlines starting today, not in 2012
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brendows
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Mon May 22, 2006 8:22 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 16):

So compensate for the lost cost reductions (fuel, maintenance etc.)



Quoting Keesje (Reply 16):

That is an Airbus advantage many here continue to underestimate

This has probably helped Airbus in winning certain orders, but for Airbus' shareholders, I wouldn't call this an advantage for Airbus, with the fuelprice we have today it's just like shooting yourself in the foot.
 
atmx2000
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Mon May 22, 2006 8:23 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 16):

So compensate for the lost cost reductions (fuel, maintenance etc.)

That is an Airbus advantage many here continue to underestimate

a workable fleet plan for airlines starting today, not in 2012

This costs Airbus money. Plus if they are crying for launch aid and can afford to pay money to customers to not defect, it isn't going to look good. It would seem like Airbus is using the additional cash flow to buy/maintain marketshare rather than simply subsidize aircraft development.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
leelaw
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Mon May 22, 2006 8:29 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 16):
for most airlines Airbus will probably compensate

e.g. the cost of flying 330/340s longer

So compensate for the lost cost reductions (fuel, maintenance etc.)

That is an Airbus advantage many here continue to underestimate

a workable fleet plan for airlines starting today, not in 2012

Perhaps, but it starts to get expensive, particularly when you have to deal with disposals at the end of the transition period.
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dutchjet
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Mon May 22, 2006 8:31 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 12):
I expect all A350 customer may to review it's A350 orders / contracts. Specifications, delivery date, many things will change.

How is it possible not to review in this situation, or with every design alteration in that respect?

Correct - the airlines are unsure as to what aircraft will be built at this point, so we are starting over with the A350 program - each and every order must be reviewed and airlines that have signed contracts for the A350 will also go through the reneogitation process.

This is a unique situation, one that is cetainly interesting to watch.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 16):
for most airlines Airbus will probably compensate

e.g. the cost of flying 330/340s longer

So compensate for the lost cost reductions (fuel, maintenance etc.)

That is an Airbus advantage many here continue to underestimate

a workable fleet plan for airlines starting today, not in 2012

You must be joking - the delay of the A350 program, the required renegotation of all A350 orders, and the possible need to compensate airlines for the delays/revisions is one big mess - and may cost Airbus money as well as lost good will....aside from the fact that Airbus has been forced to admit that their prior A350 offering was not as good as it should have been.
 
dalecary
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Mon May 22, 2006 8:39 pm

Part of the article in this week's FI:

Airbus could lose its target and most prominent A350 customer, Qatar
Airways, because of its indecision over the aircraft's configuration
and the likelihood it will adopt an all-new design.
"we are launch customer for an aircraft that, other than its model
number, does not now exist. Qatar Airways is very unhappy about
this,"says Al Baker. He questions how Airbus will "address this issue
with A350 customers who have placed deposits".
Al Baker says that in light of the development, Qatar"might be forced
to re-evaluate the 787 and could get preferential delivery dates from
Boeing". Qatar Airways repeated requests since selecting the A350 in
June last year that Airbus should revise the design have been
"vindicated"by the manufacturer's U-turn, says Al Baker. "The trouble
is , Airbus has lost a year". He says he expects Airbus to be able to
show him a firm specification "by early June".

Doesn't sound that flash for the A350 at QR but I wouldn't be surprised if Al Baker is using this as a tactic to gain further concessions.
Does Manni still think this Order is assured? He has repeatedly told the community here that it will be a definitive order. It may well end up that way, but an element of doubt certainly now exists.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Mon May 22, 2006 8:45 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 19):
Perhaps, but it starts to get expensive, particularly when you have to deal with disposals at the end of the transition period.

Personally, I don't see Airbus having significant problems placing A330s on the second-hand market. You just can't get them today. There will always be 2nd tier airlines that would love some 5 year-old A330s.

A340s might be a bit more of a challenge, but again, there not exactly being piled up in the deserts are they?

As an interesting aside, both AY and TP are taking A330s or A340s ahead of their A350s. I haven't seen any indication that Airbus will be taking these planes back when the A350s are delivered.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
dalecary
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Mon May 22, 2006 9:15 pm

Bloomberg is now reporting that QR may reconsider the A350 order if the project is delayed by more than 18 months. Any new A350 would appear almost certain to be delayed by more than 18 months. But the key words probably are "may reconsider".
 
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Stitch
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Mon May 22, 2006 10:25 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 16):
Airbus will probably compensate...(most airlines to offer them)...a workable fleet plan for airlines starting today, not in 2012.

But Boeing can offer some/many of them an even more workable fleet plan "today" using the 787. Even for large orders like QR, SQ, and others, Boeing will still be able to offer frames up to two years earlier then Airbus will.

And Airbus may slip past 2012 since the A350MkV will not be able to leverage as much existing tooling, supplier sourcing, design work, and technology the A330/A340-based MkI-MkIV were able to.
 
Lumberton
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Mon May 22, 2006 10:52 pm

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 23):
Bloomberg is now reporting that QR may reconsider the A350 order if the project is delayed by more than 18 months. Any new A350 would appear almost certain to be delayed by more than 18 months. But the key words probably are "may reconsider".

Posturing by Mr. AAB. Where else is he going to go? He is going to look real foolish if he "flip flops". Boeing doesn't have 787 slots to give him; QF took most of those (BTW, thanks AAB). For better or for worse (in sickness, etc.) Mr. AAB and Airbus are wedded. Now, if Boeing were able to start the second line for the 787...but that is too much of a reach at the moment. My USD $0.02 only.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
jacobin777
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Mon May 22, 2006 10:52 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 9):
Fuel cost guarantees? Ask PIA about the 772LR.

right Thorben, we already know about that article..which basically at this point in time as no merit.....

We also know how the 777's are killing the A340's in efficiency.....

We also know that the very 2 -200LR PK has flying did better on the flight testing program than orginally anticipated..
"Up the Irons!"
 
timboflier215
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Mon May 22, 2006 11:01 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 26):
right Thorben, we already know about that article..which basically at this point in time as no merit.....

Indeed, please lets not get into all of THAT again. Overall, I would expect QR to be unhappy. They asked Airbus to redesign the plane. Airbus did nothing for a whole YEAR, then finally decides to completely re-do the a/c. So now QR have no idea what they have ordered, when it'll be delivered or what it'll cost. And all along they had slots for an a/c (787) that looks like a world-beater. You bet they are unhappy.
 
behramjee
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Mon May 22, 2006 11:37 pm

just saw bbc world business report and one of the stories was on this QR A 350 deal. it said that QR is not happy with the 2 year delay of the programme that Airbus is now saying it will take if the redesign is implemented. they also said that QR is wary of giving any committment to a "paper aircraft" and that the deal is being seriously reviewed by management.
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Tue May 23, 2006 12:25 am

Here is another qoute:

"We are committed to the A-350 deal, the only thing is there is a delay in delivery and we are waiting for them to tell us the final specifications of this airplane," Akbar al-Baker, chief executive of Qatar Airways told Dow Jones Newswires on the sidelines of the World Economic Forum on the Middle East which closes today in Egypt's Red Sea resort of Sharm El-Sheikh.


In orther words: "We are going to buy the plane no what the specs are"

Dumb.
 crazy   crossfingers   stirthepot 
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flyinghippo
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Tue May 23, 2006 12:50 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 7):
Anyway, I expect at this point QR/al Baker will want to save face and won't order the 787. Whether they order the A340NG or the 777LR will depend on what type of fuel cost guarantees Airbus will offer to hedgeless QR.

A thought came up...

What is the EIS of 787-9 compared to the newest version of A350? I know the EIS of A350 has not been decided yet, but I think 2012 is the agreed year on a.net?

I believe QF has some slots for the -9, so what would be the earliest, next available -9 slot available?

If the EIS of -9 is earlier than the A350, this would give QR a good excuse to order the -9 without losing face... (That's what I would tell QR if I'm a B sales person)...
 
Ken777
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Tue May 23, 2006 1:24 am

This one is going to be interesting to watch.

QR can save face if they go with the 787 by saying that the larger versions were not available when they made the original 350 decision - which is true.

The question is really what do they want? Will a 787-10 be the best plane for them, or will it be a larger 350?

I see two important issues that QR will be addressing in the near future. The first will be the design of the new 350 and how well it fits into their fleet. Airbus needs to do something very good in this are - and they are capable of making an excellent plane.

The other issue is a second 787 production line - which would be very attractive to both QR and SQ, as well as others. It may be possible for QR to get early, interim 787s from this line and then move to larger versions when they are available. The resale value of the initial 787s would probably be very high if the productions lines are busy, making it an interesting option.

Boeing can also point to a strong demand for any new slots from a second line. These slots would be very attractive to SQ and BA might even sign up for some, considering how well they are doing these days.

This battle is going to be fun to watch for the rest of 2006 at a minimum.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Tue May 23, 2006 1:41 am

Perhaps QR wants to wait because an A350MkV-1000 could fill the mission role they are currently considering A340-600s and 777-300ERs and be more efficient, to boot (significantly more, in the case of the A346).

Though QR could get A346s and 773ERs well before 2012, and I do not know if the -1000 would EIS in 2012 or years later, in which case it might not be an option.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Tue May 23, 2006 1:54 am

Quoting Wingman (Reply 29):
I have to say that QR look the greatest collection of aviation buffoons in the industry. First the guy says the 350 was a reaction that didn't hold up to the 787...uuuh, so why did you announce a firm commitment for the 350 in the first place? Second, he says he's glad Airbus is finally listening to his supplications to improve the design (WTF???), never heard QR mentioned as a critic of the original design...and finally, now that he's glad the change is coming he wants it in 18 months vs. the two years it'll take to get it right.



Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 30):
In orther words: "We are going to buy the plane no what the specs are"

Dumb.

then you can say the same thing about ILFC, who have made a super-duper-ultra-large-massive stink about the A350...

as they have already ordered the plane, I guess that makes them even dumber.. spin 

agree?
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PM
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Tue May 23, 2006 2:00 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 34):
then you can say the same thing about ILFC, who have made a super-duper-ultra-large-massive stink about the A350... as they have already ordered the plane, I guess that makes them even dumber..

No. The two situations are quite different. What DAYflier quoted in Reply #30 implies that QR will buy the forthcoming version of the A350 no matter what. ILFC (and others) ordered a previous and fairly concrete version.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Tue May 23, 2006 2:07 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 34):

then you can say the same thing about ILFC, who have made a super-duper-ultra-large-massive stink about the A350...

as they have already ordered the plane, I guess that makes them even dumber..

agree?

Interesting point. If ILFC had already placed the A350s it ordered with airlines with solid finances.......no.......in that case, ILFC is acting more like a bank and it is more concerned with the financing and the revenue generated thereby. (Its unlikely that ILFC had already placed all of its A350s so far in advance and at such an early stage in the program.)

BUT.....

If ILFC had not placed the A350s, then their behavior is rather strange: signing up for an aircraft with uncomfirmed performance numbers and stats and then publically trashing the type; but, then again, ILFC and Airbus have a rather intimate love/hate relationship going - is it possible that ILFC ordered the A350 to give the program a boost and then became critical of the A350 when the final specs revealed that the A350 was not as good as Airbus hoped it would be and that ILFC could have trouble placing the aircraft?

Do remember that it was the ILFC remarks that set off this entire A350 re-think drama?!
 
11Bravo
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Tue May 23, 2006 2:14 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 33):
Though QR could get A346s and 773ERs well before 2012, and I do not know if the -1000 would EIS in 2012 or years later, in which case it might not be an option.

As far as we know, given very little information other than the FI article, the A350-1000 will EIS in 2014. So the question becomes; do they want to wait eight years to start the fleet expansion? If not, would they lease an interim aircraft? Do they even have a cohesive expansion plan?
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jacobin777
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Tue May 23, 2006 2:58 am

Quoting PM (Reply 35):

No. The two situations are quite different. What DAYflier quoted in Reply #30 implies that QR will buy the forthcoming version of the A350 no matter what. ILFC (and others) ordered a previous and fairly concrete version.

true, true....however, at least QR haven't signed the dotted lines where as ILFC have (I'm sure they have some clauses where they can probably back out, get penalty fees, etc..but for now, the are the suckers..)......I think QR is coming out a bit ahead of this..they are in a very good position with Airbus right now...plus, I think its a prudent move by QR.....much more so than ILFC, considering ILFC knew the earlier specs about the prior version of the A350..

ILFC is  whining  because the A350 hasn't sold well and won't have a good residual value.....which is obviously very important to ILFC...

I guess its how you view the situation... Smile

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 36):

Do remember that it was the ILFC remarks that set off this entire A350 re-think drama?!

 checkmark ..though I suspect some carriers and ILFC were secretly mentioning the inferiourity of the A350 verus the B787 to Airbus without any results...
"Up the Irons!"
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Tue May 23, 2006 6:34 am

Quoting Thorben (Reply 9):
Fuel cost guarantees? Ask PIA about the 772LR.

Do you always believe a story which is reported by a newspaper? I'd rather wait for a reliable confirmation of these claims.

Quoting Wingman (Reply 29):

QR has been turned into a very successful and top-rated airline over the last years. It seems your knowledge about the carrier is very limited, not to say non-existant...


PH
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11Bravo
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Tue May 23, 2006 6:41 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 39):
QR has been turned into a very successful and top-rated airline over the last years.

Come on now. You have to admit QR's behavior for the last year or so has been unusual. It may all be part of a well laid plan which will turn out in the long run, but they way they handled the fleet expansion is a bit odd and unpredictable.
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scouseflyer
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Tue May 23, 2006 6:44 am

"So now QR have no idea what they have ordered,"


They haven't ordered anything yet..........
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Tue May 23, 2006 6:51 am

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 40):
Come on now. You have to admit QR's behavior for the last year or so has been unusual. It may all be part of a well laid plan which will turn out in the long run, but they way they handled the fleet expansion is a bit odd and unpredictable.

Being predictable is not a fortunate feature when negotiating for the best deal...


PH
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Thorben
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Tue May 23, 2006 5:41 pm

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 38):
Do you always believe a story which is reported by a newspaper? I'd rather wait for a reliable confirmation of these claims.

Wasn't it you who told me to read the papers?  sarcastic 
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brendows
Posts: 801
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Tue May 23, 2006 6:03 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 42):
Wasn't it you who told me to read the papers? sarcastic

Reading and believing isn't the same thing Thorben. Being critical is important. It's not too hard to point at the mistakes in the article you are referring to, you just have to want to see them.
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Tue May 23, 2006 6:06 pm

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 41):
Wasn't it you who told me to read the papers?

Yes, but only reputable newspapers known for reliable research, or aviation-related press.


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Tue May 23, 2006 7:42 pm

Any other orders QR can review (apart from the current re-view of the B777 order?

I knew this Airbus stuff up would result in A350 customers re-viewing or cancelling and ordering B787s
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RobK
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Tue May 23, 2006 9:03 pm

Well I hope QTR - and everyone else planning to go with the A350 - now go with Boeing. It'll serve Airbus right for messing them about and trying to cut corners by adding a couple of go-faster stripes to the A330, renaming it the A350 and marketing it as a whole new aircraft  sarcastic .

R
 
Thorben
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Tue May 23, 2006 9:16 pm

Quoting Brendows (Reply 43):
Reading and believing isn't the same thing Thorben. Being critical is important.

I very much agree with that. Since I know a lot about aviation, I often notice clear mistakes the media makes. Then I wonder if they are as wrong as that when they write about other subjects, where I don't have the knowledge to indentify the mistakes.

Quoting Brendows (Reply 43):
It's not too hard to point at the mistakes in the article you are referring to, you just have to want to see them.

OK, I'll read it again.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 44):
Yes, but only reputable newspapers known for reliable research, or aviation-related press.

And these are in your opinion?
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kappel
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Tue May 23, 2006 9:45 pm

Quoting RobK (Reply 46):
Well I hope QTR - and everyone else planning to go with the A350 - now go with Boeing. It'll serve Airbus right for messing them about and trying to cut corners by adding a couple of go-faster stripes to the A330, renaming it the A350 and marketing it as a whole new aircraft

You mean like the 748 Wink

Seriously though... although it was not an optimal response, but the current a350 is far from "just a few added go-faster stripes". I agree it's not what it should be, but the whole a350 process has been a pain for airbus. They wanted it out asap, but seem to have come to their senses. IMHO the "new" a350 as reported by FI is a great option, not only replacing the a332 and a343, but also the a346, which needed an overhaul anyway. So instead of pouring money in the a346E, using it for the a350-1000 is IMHO a very wise move, especially if the claims of 20% lower fuel burn than the 77W are even close to be true.
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DAYflyer
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RE: Qatar Airways May Review A350 Deal

Tue May 23, 2006 9:50 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 9):
Obviously they need to review their order when Airbus changes the plane and the delivery dates. What's the big deal? Their order wasn't very firm, IIRC. And Airbus hasn't decided yet what they'll do. Questions like what to do with current A350 customers will influence their decision

Agree with this. They will review and then switch back to the 787 after Airbus once again misses the mark by not going to a composite fuselage.
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