AeroMaxx
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What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Mon May 22, 2006 3:43 am

Hi,

I'm new here and for my 1st post, what kind of a/c would WN use on the TPa to PHX route? Would they need the range of the 737-700 w/ winglets, or would they just do fine w/ a 733? Any info would be appreciated!
 
OPNLguy
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Mon May 22, 2006 3:45 am

It'd be a 737-700... (They all have winglets, BTW)

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/S...9/history/20060520/1934Z/KTPA/KPHX

BTW, Welcome to Anet!

[Edited 2006-05-21 20:54:54]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
monorail
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Mon May 22, 2006 5:44 am

To answer your other question, it can be done with a 733. I've seen MCO-PHX nonstop done with a 733 before, so it's certainly within range.

And welcome to A.net!
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AeroMaxx
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Mon May 22, 2006 7:08 am

Ok, because i thought a 733 didnt have the range for FL-AZ nostop. Thanks for the info!!

[Edited 2006-05-22 00:26:54]
 
OPNLguy
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Mon May 22, 2006 7:27 am

Quoting Monorail (Reply 2):
To answer your other question, it can be done with a 733. I've seen MCO-PHX nonstop done with a 733 before, so it's certainly within range.

Sorta...

It depends upon the winds aloft, and the passenger loads, plus other variables.

I've had lightly loaded -300s on this city-pair (and others) not be able to make it (in the planning stage) because the amount of fuel needed for the flight (plus reserves, alternates, holds, etc) exceeded the max fuel capacity of the 733. The -700s have a larger fuel capacity than do the 733s, so this isn't a problem for them.

I've also had heavily booked -300s not be able to make it, not due to exceptionally strong headwinds, but due to circuitous re-routes due to WX/ATC, and/or high fuel arrival fuel requirements for PHX (thunderstorms, blowing dust, delays, etc.)

Bottomline here, as far as this particular TPA-PHX segment is concerned, a 733 can make if all the planets line-up in just the right order, but usually one doesn't (and all it takes is one) and with our loads, a -700 is routinely scheduled for this one.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Mon May 22, 2006 7:38 am

The 737-300 could with no problem.

Our 737-300s used to go (and some might still do for equipment substitution) EWR-PHX (2133 miles), EWR-SJC (2548 miles), EWR-SAN (2425 miles), EWR-MEX (2076 miles) and EWR-SNA (2433 miles).

TPA-PHX is only 1788 miles.

(all mileage was calculated from http://gc.kls2.com/ )
You can't cure stupid
 
supa7E7
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Mon May 22, 2006 7:44 am

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 5):
The 737-300 could with no problem.

Our 737-300s used to go (and some might still do for equipment substitution) EWR-PHX (2133 miles), EWR-SJC (2548 miles), EWR-SAN (2425 miles), EWR-MEX (2076 miles) and EWR-SNA (2433 miles).

TPA-PHX is only 1788 miles.

Either these aircraft had auxilliary tanks, or you are smoking something!
"Who's to say spaceships aren't fine art?" - Phil Lesh
 
WN57787
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Mon May 22, 2006 7:44 am

WN could use 737-700 or could use the 737-300

WN uses a 300 for PIT-PHX
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Mon May 22, 2006 7:50 am

Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 6):

Either these aircraft had auxilliary tanks, or you are smoking something!

No to both those questions.  Smile

(This is off subject, but we even flew the MD-80 from the SAN-EWR, non stop, a few times. I remember it all too well as I as jumpseating to work)
You can't cure stupid
 
TWA902fly
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Mon May 22, 2006 7:50 am

I flew ORD-OAK (1835 miles) on a UA 733, so TPA-PHX should be no problem.

'902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
AeroMaxx
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Mon May 22, 2006 9:31 am

i posted this bec i am flying that segment (TPA-PHX) on May 23rd on WN flt#2318 and i am hoping for it to be a 73G. Maybe I'll try flightaware...
 
N1120A
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Mon May 22, 2006 9:59 am

Quoting AeroMaxx (Reply 10):
i posted this bec i am flying that segment (TPA-PHX) on May 23rd on WN flt#2318 and i am hoping for it to be a 73G. Maybe I'll try flightaware...

Like OPNLguy said, it is scheduled as a 73G so it will most likely be so.

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 9):
I flew ORD-OAK (1835 miles) on a UA 733, so TPA-PHX should be no problem.

United's 733s are C1 engined, Southwest's are B1. TPA-PHX is not an issue for all 733s, just WN's 733s. They can and have done MSY-LAX non-stop, however.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
CentPIT
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Mon May 22, 2006 9:59 am

Quoting WN57787 (Reply 7):
WN could use 737-700 or could use the 737-300

WN uses a 300 for PIT-PHX

How many PAX do both aircraft hold? I would guess WN would use a 700 on TPA-PHX!




WN57787,

Have you heard of any new destinations for WN in Pittsburgh?
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Mon May 22, 2006 10:12 am

From the Southwest website:


Fleet:
Southwest currently operates 451 Boeing 737 jets (as of March 28, 2006).

Type Number Seats
737-300 194 137
737-500 25 122
737-700 232 137
You can't cure stupid
 
san747
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Mon May 22, 2006 10:20 am

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 8):

(This is off subject, but we even flew the MD-80 from the SAN-EWR, non stop, a few times. I remember it all too well as I as jumpseating to work)

WOW! I thought an MD-80 on SAN-ORD was pushing it... I guess I was wrong!

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 1):
It'd be a 737-700... (They all have winglets, BTW)

Every 737-700 now has winglets? They made the transition really quickly then... Hasn't it only been 2 or 3 years since they were first introduced?
Scotty doesn't know...
 
hz747300
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Mon May 22, 2006 10:24 am

Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 6):
Either these aircraft had auxilliary tanks, or you are smoking something!

Actually, HP used to fly this route BWI-PHX, I flew it both ways in winter for a Christmas holiday. I remember thinking that it did not have the range when I was at the gate, but then I realised that airline would fly an aircraft which did not have the range! Sure enough, in the inflight magazine, HP listed the 733 as having 3000 mile range. This was in 1991 or 1992, it's been a while.

Later, when I moved to DC, I flew the route again, but then it was operated by 757s. That was in 2000.

Something tells me that TPA/PHX on a 733 is doable and we are not popping pills, smoking weed, freebasing, or even drinking; clearly it is your information which is incorrect.
Keep on truckin'...
 
N1120A
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Mon May 22, 2006 10:25 am

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 13):
Fleet:
Southwest currently operates 451 Boeing 737 jets (as of March 28, 2006).

Type Number Seats
737-300 194 137
737-500 25 122
737-700 232 137

454 now, which would mean 235 737-700s
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
AeroMaxx
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Mon May 22, 2006 10:28 am

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 12):
How many PAX do both aircraft hold?

both the 733 and the 73G seat 137 pax in a 1-class configuration.
 
CentPIT
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Mon May 22, 2006 10:58 am

Quoting AeroMaxx (Reply 17):
both the 733 and the 73G seat 137 pax in a 1-class configuration.

Ok thank you! Why does WN operate a 300 then on PIT-PHX? I thought maybe the 300 held fewer PAX.
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
Jacks757
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Mon May 22, 2006 11:14 am

What aircraft does HP use on this route?
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Mon May 22, 2006 11:17 am

Quoting Jacks757 (Reply 19):
What aircraft does HP use on this route?

According to their website: A320
You can't cure stupid
 
OPNLguy
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Mon May 22, 2006 11:25 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
454 now, which would mean 235 737-700s

Correct...

If folks want to keep up on current info on aircraft counts, I update the Wikipedia site entry for "Southwest Airlines" whenever we get a new delivery...

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
United's 733s are C1 engined, Southwest's are B1. TPA-PHX is not an issue for all 733s, just WN's 733s. They can and have done MSY-LAX non-stop, however.

Also correct. I think many folks who are chiming in here might not be aware that seemingly "identical" aircraft can differ between the different airlines, depending upon what engine variant and structural weight limit options Airline-A ordered that Airline-B did not. The old 737-200 ADV was a good example; while they all looked "identical" to the casual observer, they could have -9, -15, or -17 engines; 115,000, 119,500, or 124,500 max takeoff weights; and 103,000, 105,000, or 107,000 max landing weights. So, while appearing "identical", one airline's 737s could have better/worse operational capabilities depending on who had what. Similar variations exist within the 737 "Classic" and "NG" families.

Quoting AeroMaxx (Reply 10):
i posted this bec i am flying that segment (TPA-PHX) on May 23rd on WN flt#2318 and i am hoping for it to be a 73G. Maybe I'll try flightaware...

If you don't get a -700 for your TPA-PHX non-stop on 5/23, I owe you lunch..

Quoting San747 (Reply 14):
Every 737-700 now has winglets? They made the transition really quickly then... Hasn't it only been 2 or 3 years since they were first introduced?

If memory serves, I think they finished up the retrofit program a little over a year ago. New -700s have been coming with the winglets already installed for longer than that.

Quoting HZ747300 (Reply 15):
Something tells me that TPA/PHX on a 733 is doable and we are not popping pills, smoking weed, freebasing, or even drinking; clearly it is your information which is incorrect.

Maybe yes, maybe no. There is no one-size-fits-all answer, since it depends upon the items that I've mentioned above, and in my earlier post.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
WN57787
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Mon May 22, 2006 11:28 am

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 12):
Have you heard of any new destinations for WN in Pittsburgh?

Nop.... BWI would be A wonderfull Route.

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 12):
How many PAX do both aircraft hold? I would guess WN would use a 700 on TPA-PHX!

735 holds 122
733 holds 137
73G holds 137

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 18):
Ok thank you! Why does WN operate a 300 then on PIT-PHX? I thought maybe the 300 held fewer PAX.

that is what is Scheduled sence March Scheduled up untill Augest. Schedule.
the Flt is full most days.
 
AeroMaxx
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Mon May 22, 2006 10:25 pm

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 18):
I thought maybe the 300 held fewer PAX

The 733 is the same size as the 73G, but the 73G is just an upgraded version of the 733 w/ 737NG technology.
 
AeroMaxx
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Mon May 22, 2006 10:27 pm

by any chance will flt #2318 be on any Shamu planes?
 
OPNLguy
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Mon May 22, 2006 10:41 pm

Quoting AeroMaxx (Reply 24):
by any chance will flt #2318 be on any Shamu planes?

I'll check when I get in later this afternoon.

We're back down to 3 Shamus (from 5 temporarily), so they'd be N334SW (a -300, not likely on your flight), or N713SW or N715SW (both -700s). The original 2nd and 3rd Shamus (N501SW and N507SW) were later repainted in the Canyon Blue colors.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
viveAF
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Mon May 22, 2006 10:57 pm

Hi and welcome to a.net !

If it`s any use - this is the WN timetable display on our Galileo Res System

TAMPA/PHOENIX WN (SOUTHWEST AIRLINES TEXAS)
01MAY-27MAY 1234567 TPA1 PHX 0830 1110 WN2318 733
29MAY-10JUN 1234567 TPA1 PHX 0830 1110 WN2318 733
11JUN -31OCT 1234567 TPA1 PHX 0835 1045 WN2318 733
01MAY-10JUN 1234567 TPA1 PHX 1045 1400 WN 271 733
11JUN-31OCT 1234567 TPA1 PHX 1100 1355 WN 271 733
01MAY-10JUN 1234567 TPA PHX 1525 1705 WN1149 73G
11JUN-31OCT 1234567 TPA PHX 1530 1645 WN1149 73G

EQUIPMENT DECODE
‡.733
733 J BOEING 737-300/3000C PASSENGER
‡.73G
73G J BOEING 737-700 PASSENGER

Looks like WN1149 is scheduled with the 737-700...

Cheers from England  wave 
 
AeroMaxx
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Mon May 22, 2006 11:05 pm

i am also doing a PHX-SMF segment on same day flt #2116. can anyone find out what a/c will ne used?
 
OPNLguy
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Mon May 22, 2006 11:11 pm

Quoting AeroMaxx (Thread starter):
I'm new here and for my 1st post, what kind of a/c would WN use on the TPa to PHX route? Would they need the range of the 737-700 w/ winglets, or would they just do fine w/ a 733? Any info would be appreciated!

Something didn't click with the 2318 flight number, since the non-stop flight is 1149. I had always assumed that you meant "non-stop" since you mentioned "TPA to PHX route."

Flight 2318 actually operates TPA-SAT-PHX, and as those segments are obviously shorter than a TPA-PHX nonstop, a -300 could do those no sweat...

Barring some last-minute aircraft swap in SAT, you should have the same aircraft all the way TPA-SAT-PHX.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Mon May 22, 2006 11:12 pm

Quoting AeroMaxx (Reply 27):
i am also doing a PHX-SMF segment on same day flt #2116. can anyone find out what a/c will ne used?

Will also check that when I get in... (2pm C)
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
CentPIT
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Tue May 23, 2006 11:00 am

Quoting WN57787 (Reply 22):
that is what is Scheduled sence March Scheduled up untill Augest. Schedule.
the Flt is full most days.

Thank you, this is good to know!

Quoting AeroMaxx (Reply 23):
The 733 is the same size as the 73G, but the 73G is just an upgraded version of the 733 w/ 737NG technology.

Thanks for the information!
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
AeroMaxx
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Fri May 26, 2006 7:34 am

You were right... the TPA-SAT-PHX flt was a 733. The full flt was FLL-TPA-SAT-PHX-PDX. I got off at PHX and took flt 2116 PHX-SMF on a 73G.
 
cgagn
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Fri May 26, 2006 8:51 am

I'm flying on WN1124 from vegas to lax on the 21st of July. What model can I expect to fly on?? Is it a last minute decision based on loads or what?? thanx

C-GAGN
Widebodies flown on:A330-300,A340-300,A380-800,747-400,767-200ER,767-300ER,777-200A,777-200ER,777-200LR,777-300ER,787-9
 
iowaman
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Fri May 26, 2006 9:50 am

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 18):
Why does WN operate a 300 then on PIT-PHX?


Must of had a -300 sitting around in PIT and not any -700's available, because i'm sure WN would prefer to have a -700 on PIT-PHX, but that's just the way it goes I guess.

Quoting Cgagn (Reply 32):
I'm flying on WN1124 from vegas to lax on the 21st of July. What model can I expect to fly on??

Looks like a -700, however there is about a 30% chance it will be swapped for a -300 it looks like.
 
CentPIT
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Fri May 26, 2006 9:53 am

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 33):
Must of had a -300 sitting around in PIT and not any -700's available, because i'm sure WN would prefer to have a -700 on PIT-PHX, but that's just the way it goes I guess.

Do you know of any new routes for WN in PIT? Any news is appreciated!

[Edited 2006-05-26 02:54:06]
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
iowaman
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Fri May 26, 2006 11:10 am

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 34):
Do you know of any new routes for WN in PIT? Any news is appreciated!

Don't know of any right now. I'm a little bit concerned about how WN is performing at PIT. If my calculations are right, WN achieved a 58.3% load factor in PIT for March of 2006, which is significantly below the systemwide load factor of 75.5% for March of '06. Not to mention that a good chunk of those flights go into delay-prone PHL, and then you have the longer long hauls which tie up aircraft for a good part of the day. If this load factor doesn't improve, I'm not sure you will see much new out of PIT. Maybe they would be better off trying something with less competition (PIT-MHT, PVD, BWI, etc.). Sorry.
 
pgtravel
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Sat May 27, 2006 12:50 am

Quoting HZ747300 (Reply 15):
Actually, HP used to fly this route BWI-PHX, I flew it both ways in winter for a Christmas holiday. I remember thinking that it did not have the range when I was at the gate, but then I realised that airline would fly an aircraft which did not have the range! Sure enough, in the inflight magazine, HP listed the 733 as having 3000 mile range. This was in 1991 or 1992, it's been a while.

I also flew an HP 733 IAD-PHX westbound back when they first served IAD. I remember it started as a 319, but as reliability worsened, they just kept canceling the flight to steal the aircraft (this was in the late 90's). Eventually it was downgraded to only a few days each week and they put a 733 on it before killing it.

This also reminds me of another painful HP trip on a 73S from PHX-CMH. They had to do it since at the time, just about all of the CMH hub flying was on 73S aircraft, and this rotated them back into PHX. I did it once in the middle seat of the last row. Ugh.

But as OPNLguy noted, seemingly similar aircraft can have different ranges. For example, I flew a 734 TPA to LAX on US a long time ago, but I think those were IGW models.
 
CentPIT
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RE: What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route?

Sat May 27, 2006 7:03 am

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 35):
Don't know of any right now. I'm a little bit concerned about how WN is performing at PIT. If my calculations are right, WN achieved a 58.3% load factor in PIT for March of 2006, which is significantly below the systemwide load factor of 75.5% for March of '06. Not to mention that a good chunk of those flights go into delay-prone PHL, and then you have the longer long hauls which tie up aircraft for a good part of the day. If this load factor doesn't improve, I'm not sure you will see much new out of PIT. Maybe they would be better off trying something with less competition (PIT-MHT, PVD, BWI, etc.). Sorry.

No problem. I do know that WN has moved up to 10.37% of the PIT market. I do agree that they should begin flights with less competition! US is probably giving them a run for their money on PIT-LAS, PIT-PHL, and PIT-PHX. This is just a guess as I don't know of the exact numbers.


Year-to-Date PAX numbers for PIT (2006)

US Airways (1,272,919 pax) (56.52%)

Southwest Airlines (233,758) (10.37%)

Delta Airlines (169,920) (7.54%)


They have a while to go before they catch US but are well above DL! I wish the best of luck to WN and their PIT operation!
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)

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