Pulkovokiwi
Topic Author
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Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Tue May 23, 2006 5:27 am

To my knowledge each of the above carriers has only made one visit to NZ. A TWA 707 to RNZAF Ohakea in 1966 with the LBJ entourage and a NWA 707 to Auckland in 1968 with South Korean President Park. Anyone got any information to the contrary? Thanks!
I thought I was wrong but I was only joking!
 
oznznut
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Tue May 23, 2006 9:11 am

Hi There
Search the photo data base. There is a TWA 707-331 shown at Auckland. I dont know how to do links.
[www.airliners.net/open.file0268618/M/]
Dave

[Edited 2006-05-23 02:27:02]
 
Pulkovokiwi
Topic Author
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Tue May 23, 2006 10:44 am

Oznznut
Thanks Dave will do. Never knew TWA had been to AKL.
Simon
I thought I was wrong but I was only joking!
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Tue May 23, 2006 3:44 pm

They TWA weren't scheduled I don't think just to clear that up.

I wonder if NW might someday give AKL a go and SYD another go with 787's?
 
NZAA
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Tue May 23, 2006 4:14 pm

If they get out of their financial troubles!
Planes Piloted Tecnam P2002 JF, Cessna 172R, Cessna 152, Airbus A320
 
dutchjet
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Tue May 23, 2006 5:08 pm

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 3):


I wonder if NW might someday give AKL a go and SYD another go with 787's?

After NW's last attempt at starting service to Australia, which was a financial disaster and even resulted in some minor political implications between Australia, Japan and the US, I doubt that NW will be back in the region any time soon.
 
parisien
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Tue May 23, 2006 6:04 pm

Wasnt the NW "disaster" as you called it due to NW carrying more Tokyo SYD pax (rather than US SYD through pax) than was allowed ?
If they have that right they might be back dont you think ? but unlikely to get it I guess.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Tue May 23, 2006 6:08 pm

Quoting Parisien (Reply 6):
Wasnt the NW "disaster" as you called it due to NW carrying more Tokyo SYD pax (rather than US SYD through pax) than was allowed ?
If they have that right they might be back dont you think ? but unlikely to get it I guess.

Aside from this issue, NW lost a lot of money on its South Pacific experiment.
 
onedude
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Tue May 23, 2006 6:18 pm

Quoting Parisien (Reply 6):
Wasnt the NW "disaster" as you called it due to NW carrying more Tokyo SYD pax (rather than US SYD through pax) than was allowed ?

It was actually Osaka.
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Tue May 23, 2006 7:27 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):
Aside from this issue, NW lost a lot of money on its South Pacific experiment.

Not surprising when they flew 3 different routings with about 10 flights weekly total. I think with 787's they could make it work when they are out of chapter 11.

I think it was

LAX-SYD 3x weekly 744
LAX-HNL-SYD 4x weekly D10, 742
JFK-KIX-SYD 3x weekly 741
 
nwab787techops
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Wed May 24, 2006 1:45 am

I would love to see NWA fly back to SYD. But, If NWA put a B787 on LAX-SYD it would loose money to QFs A380s. NWA's B787s are for rout that can't fill a B747-400, but too long of a flight for the A330.(IE JFK-NRT).
 
kkfla737
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Wed May 24, 2006 5:35 am

I thought NW actually did well on the Osaka/Sydney run but had to pull out because of the political controversy created between Japan and Australia. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but that was my recollection.
 
parisien
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Wed May 24, 2006 7:26 am

thanks OneDude youre right, its Osaka.
Kklfa737, indeed I read that NW did well on the Osaka-SYD but that was because they carried more japan originated pax that they were supposed to (only a pourcentage of japan originated pax was allowed on the flight, the rest was supposed to be US originated). so that did not sit well with others !
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Wed May 24, 2006 8:04 pm

From memory, the only US airlines to have flown to New Zealand on a regular scheduled service have been PA, CO and UA, none of which fly here any more.


View Large View Medium
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Photo © Colin Hunter




View Large View Medium
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Photo © Alan Gaskin




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Photo © Frank Schaefer



Of course UA still codeshare with Star partner NZ.
come visit the south pacific
 
NZ767
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Fri May 26, 2006 2:12 pm

Add American Airlines to the list too MotorHussy. Smile
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Fri May 26, 2006 2:38 pm

Quoting NZ767 (Reply 14):
Add American Airlines to the list too MotorHussy.

with two separate attempts - early '70s with 707 and sometime in the '80s with DC-10s - neither visit lasted very long
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Fri May 26, 2006 3:08 pm

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 15):

with two separate attempts - early '70s with 707 and sometime in the '80s with DC-10s - neither visit lasted very long

AA last flew to AKL in 1992/93 timeframe.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Fri May 26, 2006 6:51 pm

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 16):

AA last flew to AKL in 1992/93 timeframe.

Sorry, the dates seem wrong to me, I really dont think that AA was flying into AKL at any time during the 1990s, atleast not with its own aircraft (codeshare maybe?)
 
NZ767
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Fri May 26, 2006 10:19 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 17):
Sorry, the dates seem wrong to me, I really dont think that AA was flying into AKL at any time during the 1990s, atleast not with its own aircraft (codeshare maybe?)

Not sure exactly what year they finished but I'm pretty sure it was in the 90s.
They used MD11s then Smile
 
dutchjet
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Fri May 26, 2006 11:32 pm

Quoting NZ767 (Reply 18):

Not sure exactly what year they finished but I'm pretty sure it was in the 90s.
They used MD11s then

I checked..........no MD11s to NZ, and not in the 1990s. AA flew a South Pacific network that included NZ in the 1970s/1980s......with 707-320Bs.
 
NZ767
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Sun May 28, 2006 6:42 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 19):
I checked..........no MD11s to NZ, and not in the 1990s. AA flew a South Pacific network that included NZ in the 1970s/1980s......with 707-320Bs.

Can you imagine AA using 707's when Continental and NZ were using DC10's and PanAm were using 747's on US-NZ routes at the time?
Come on Kiwis, help me out here. No pics in the database. Smile
 
dutchjet
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Sun May 28, 2006 7:08 am

I dont think that CO, PA and AA all flew to NZ at the same time........but if they did, it was for a very short period of time. PA flew with 707s, 747s and SPs until the UA deal. AA was at AKL from about 1975 until maybe 1979 or 1980 with 707s. And, CO showed up in AKL and Austalia in 1979 or 1980, first with DC10s and 747s were added after the PE merger where by CO got 747s back into their fleet......CO closed up its South Pacific system in the mid 1990s to my recollection.

I think that your timing is a bit off......thus you are imagining old AA 707s flying against the newer types, which was not the case.

If my memory is correct, back in the mid 1970s, AA went out and specially purchased a handful of the most advanced 707-320B, with lots of range, to specifically operate the South Pacific system.
 
767er
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Sun May 28, 2006 8:00 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 21):
AA was at AKL from about 1975 until maybe 1979 or 1980

I think AA only flew the 707s for a brief period in about 1972 and the then CAB withdrew their rights to fly to SYD and AKL in favour of PA. I recall some intense lobbying of the White House by PA.
Aircraft flown:F27,Viscount. EMB120, SAAB340, ATR70, 737-200.737-300,DC8, DC10,747-100,747-200,747-300,747-400, A320, A3
 
dutchjet
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Sun May 28, 2006 8:02 am

Quoting 767ER (Reply 22):

I think AA only flew the 707s for a brief period in about 1972 and the then CAB withdrew their rights to fly to SYD and AKL in favour of PA. I recall some intense lobbying of the White House by PA.

Dont know about that, but there is a pic here at a.net of an AA 707 at MEL in 1975.
 
NZ767
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Sun May 28, 2006 9:21 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 21):
I think that your timing is a bit off......thus you are imagining old AA 707s flying against the newer types, which was not the case.

Yeah I think my timing might be a bit twisted too Dutchjet. I hope it's not the age thing creeping up already. Hell I'm only 40.  Smile
Yes, CO did withdraw in the 90s. I flew them AKL-HNL in 1982 on a DC10-30.
Where did you find your info on AA flying to AKL. I've tried all sorts of searchs on the net.
 
Pulkovokiwi
Topic Author
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Sun May 28, 2006 9:49 am

American was at Auckland from 1969.I went to the launch party at The Hotel Intercontinental Auckland (owned by PanAm) as my dad was a journo at "The Auckland Star". I was 17 and besotted by a blonde AA FA from NYC who was at the party. Ah those were the days! AA had a very hard working PR man named Jim Devine who was instrumental in the Pacific Harbor project in Fiji which AA instigated. It's a shame they pulled out twice. They definitely never flew MD11 here only 707's and DC10's.
I thought I was wrong but I was only joking!
 
767er
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Sun May 28, 2006 10:57 am

Quoting NZ767 (Reply 24):
Where did you find your info on AA flying to AKL. I've tried all sorts of searchs on the net.

me too and no luck......i doubt AA ever flew the DC10s into AKL but I could be wrong.

I do remember see AAs !0s in SYD in 1990.....that service died a quick death.
Aircraft flown:F27,Viscount. EMB120, SAAB340, ATR70, 737-200.737-300,DC8, DC10,747-100,747-200,747-300,747-400, A320, A3
 
NZ767
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Sun May 28, 2006 11:39 am

I did another search and came up with a history of AA. That site states that AA flew 747s to AKL before trading the Pacific routes for PA's Caribbean network. I think they might be getting mixed up with the deal between PA and UA. I don't recall AA sending 747's down here. I just searched "Former American Airlines Routes" on Google.
 
767er
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Sun May 28, 2006 11:45 am

Quoting NZ767 (Reply 27):
I did another search and came up with a history of AA. That site states that AA flew 747s to AKL before trading the Pacific routes for PA's Caribbean network

I saw that too...I'm with you...they have got it confused!
Aircraft flown:F27,Viscount. EMB120, SAAB340, ATR70, 737-200.737-300,DC8, DC10,747-100,747-200,747-300,747-400, A320, A3
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Sun May 28, 2006 3:22 pm

AA definalty flew to AKL in the early 1990's with DC10-30's! DFW-HNL-AKL 3x weekly, the other days they flew DFW-HNL-SYD! I have a feeling they were here for 18 months max.

CO dropped the whole South Pacific region in 1993. I flew them AKL-HNL on a 742 in 1987.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Sun May 28, 2006 9:17 pm

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 29):
AA definalty flew to AKL in the early 1990's with DC10-30's! DFW-HNL-AKL 3x weekly, the other days they flew DFW-HNL-SYD! I have a feeling they were here for 18 months max.


And how did you come to this conclusion........is there any source or reference that you discovered as I would be interested in taking a look. I find AA's history in the South Pacific interesting and there is not much info about it.
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Sun May 28, 2006 10:06 pm

Love this shot of two PanAm and one TWA 707's in AKL in the 70's:



Regards
MH
come visit the south pacific
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Mon May 29, 2006 2:59 pm

Thats a cool shot MH!

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 30):
And how did you come to this conclusion........is there any source or reference that you discovered as I would be interested in taking a look. I find AA's history in the South Pacific interesting and there is not much info about it.

Saw them with my own eyes!
 
TWAtwaTWA
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Mon May 29, 2006 3:22 pm

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 31):
Love this shot of two PanAm and one TWA 707's in AKL in the 70's:

Nice one, MotorHussy
Here is the matching photo from the database
Big version: Width: 640 Height: 463 File size: 74kb
TWA and Air New Zealand hanging out in Kiwi land


p.s. MotorHussy, I honeymooned in your country, and it was an absolutely amazing trip. You guys live in another world.
We're your kind of airline. Uh, I mean, We *were* your kind of airline.
 
NZ767
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Mon May 29, 2006 3:59 pm

Wow, That's when the international wing was just to the west side of the present domestic (Air NZ) terminal. I remember seeing Pan Am and Qantas with their "huge" shiny 707's and NZ with their Electras and DC8's sitting there.  Smile
 
Pulkovokiwi
Topic Author
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Tue May 30, 2006 12:57 pm

And occasionally we got a CPA DC8-63 which was something else way back then.
I thought I was wrong but I was only joking!
 
767er
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Tue May 30, 2006 3:07 pm

Quoting NZ767 (Reply 34):
Wow, That's when the international wing was just to the west side of the present domestic (Air NZ) terminal

and wasn't that a dump and a half???
Aircraft flown:F27,Viscount. EMB120, SAAB340, ATR70, 737-200.737-300,DC8, DC10,747-100,747-200,747-300,747-400, A320, A3
 
isuA380B777
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Tue May 30, 2006 3:29 pm

Any idea what route did the PanAM DC7s followed when serving the AKL in early sixties?


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ray Massey




Regards

[Edited 2006-05-30 08:31:30]
 
Pulkovokiwi
Topic Author
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Tue May 30, 2006 5:22 pm

Pan Am had a crew base at AKL and flew Auckland-Nadi-Pago Pago return. I flew DC7C "Clipper Defender" to Pago Pago in January 1965 and it was magic. I kept in contact with the flight engineer Hap Arnold who died a couple of years ago. Prior to the DC7C Pan Am flew DC4's and Stratocruisers into Auckland.707's replaced the DC7's when Mangere Airport opened late in 1965.
Auckland was the first city to have a non American as a PanAm station manager. Dave Morgan is still alive and is a great guy. Pan Am made a great contribution to NZ civil aviaation.
I thought I was wrong but I was only joking!
 
767er
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2001 2:24 pm

RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Tue May 30, 2006 5:38 pm

Quoting Pulkovokiwi (Reply 38):
Pan Am made a great contribution to NZ civil aviaation.

Yes agreed........PA was the first US airline to fly to New Zealand and had a long history until they pulled out when the, foolshily, sold their Sth Pacific network to UA at a bargin price in the mid 80s. I recall their in flight service ex New Zealand in the late 70s early 80s was pretty ropey!
Aircraft flown:F27,Viscount. EMB120, SAAB340, ATR70, 737-200.737-300,DC8, DC10,747-100,747-200,747-300,747-400, A320, A3
 
antskip
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Tue May 30, 2006 5:44 pm

Quoting Pulkovokiwi (Reply 38):
Prior to the DC7C Pan Am flew DC4's and Stratocruisers into Auckland

Whenuapai was a wonderful airport in its last years. I used to go out there every now and then for a day's plane-spotting, with a camera. It was such a sight: so many propeller planes: DC-4's. DC-6's, DC-7/-7B's, DC-7C's (the most beautiful plane), Super-Constellations, Electras. So many planes, so many airlines. Not so many alternatives now.
 
isuA380B777
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Tue May 30, 2006 7:32 pm

Thank you very much Pulkovokiwi and 767ER. The information you guys provided are very useful.

Quoting Antskip (Reply 40):
Whenuapai was a wonderful airport in its last years. I used to go out there every now and then for a day's plane-spotting, with a camera. It was such a sight: so many propeller planes: DC-4's. DC-6's, DC-7/-7B's, DC-7C's (the most beautiful plane), Super-Constellations, Electras. So many planes, so many airlines. Not so many alternatives now.

You are correct. I live near by and think it is a great place. But sadly all you can see now are 757s and Herculis.

Regards
 
NZ8800
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Tue May 30, 2006 11:03 pm

Quoting Antskip (Reply 40):
Whenuapai was a wonderful airport in its last years. I used to go out there every now and then for a day's plane-spotting, with a camera. It was such a sight: so many propeller planes: DC-4's. DC-6's, DC-7/-7B's, DC-7C's (the most beautiful plane), Super-Constellations, Electras. So many planes, so many airlines. Not so many alternatives now.

Would you be able to post some of those photographs here on A.net Antskip? That would be fantastic!  Smile
Counted 2 50's photos and 11 from the 60s for Whenuapai... lovely old aeroplanes. More would be wonderful.
Still, how many hours did it take to fly to Nadi or Apia in a DC3!?
MDZWTA ~ Mobile Disaster Zone When Travelling Abroad
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Wed May 31, 2006 2:04 am

Quoting Pulkovokiwi (Reply 38):
Pan Am had a crew base at AKL and flew Auckland-Nadi-Pago Pago return.

I flew the NZ (or TE back then) version of this many times, one time, back in '72 very circuitously.

CBR to SYD on a TN (TAA) 727
SYD to NAN on a PA/KW (Pan-Am) 747 (my first)
NAN to PGO on a TE (Air NZ) DC-8
PGO to APW on a PH HS-748

Quoting NZ8800 (Reply 42):
Still, how many hours did it take to fly to Nadi or Apia in a DC3!?

My mother and aunt used to fly to boarding school in Auckland from Apia by taking the ferry from Western to American Samoa, the Catalina from Pago-Pago to Lauthala Bay near Suva in Fiji, followed by the Solent to Mechanics Bay in Auckland. Took them a couple of days and they were half deaf for a few days after too.

Regards
MH
come visit the south pacific
 
Pulkovokiwi
Topic Author
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RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Wed May 31, 2006 12:58 pm

Quoting Antskip (Reply 40):

Yes Whenuapai was great in the 6o's for spotting. Canadian Pacific Britannia,TAI DC4,Qantas DC4,Constellation and Electra. I remember TEAL/Air NZ had a real thing about CPA and always tried to get their rights cancelled. CPA had a great AKL manager called Eddie Prentice who took none of their crap.
I thought I was wrong but I was only joking!
 
antskip
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Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:53 am

RE: Northwest & TWA In New Zealand

Wed May 31, 2006 1:35 pm

Quoting NZ8800 (Reply 42):
Would you be able to post some of those photographs here on A.net Antskip?

If I ever find them again in the family archives, of course I will. But I am not hopeful, I'm afraid.