JAAlbert
Topic Author
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787 Cabin Less Open Than Promised?

Tue May 23, 2006 2:42 pm

I just took a look at Boeing's brochure for the 787. Pages, 9 through 11 show the general cabin layout for the three models now offered. What a surprise. The glossy photos that Boeing has released have shown arched and open entry vestibules and a single room cabin, where one can see virtually from the front of the plane to the back.

The cabin layout in the brochure, however, depicts lavatories situated in the center of the cabin, blocking the view from one section of the cabin to the other and multiple lavatories on either side of the exterior doors. This looks much less open than the photos have suggested.

Am I mistaken, or will the 787's interior be much less revolutionary than promised in the photos?

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/airports/acaps/787brochure.pdf (pages, 9, 10, 11)
 
deltagator
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RE: 787 Cabin Less Open Than Promised?

Tue May 23, 2006 2:53 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Thread starter):
Am I mistaken, or will the 787's interior be much less revolutionary than promised in the photos?

Well where do you propose the put the heads then? Down below like the A346 which makes you lose cargo space? I think you will be pleased with the final product of the 787 but at the end of the day it is still a tube with wings and there are only so many places to stick things.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
knoxibus
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RE: 787 Cabin Less Open Than Promised?

Tue May 23, 2006 2:54 pm

I wonder why you would consider having an arch and seeing through the whole cabin being revolutionary in the first place, even with more humidity.

Don't get me wrong, I am sure this will be the best cabin to come out of a production line on a commercial airliner (remains the noise issue though, and this we can only judge when it flies commercially), but then again, the galleys and lavatory arrangements will still be classical, although more customisable because of the use of super panels.
No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: 787 Cabin Less Open Than Promised?

Tue May 23, 2006 2:55 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Thread starter):
Am I mistaken, or will the 787's interior be much less revolutionary than promised in the photos?

That was a demo configuration to show potential customers as many cabin options as possible and provide a sense of ambiance in a small space. It's also designed to allow groups to pass through, hence the open design with no lavs.

I don't think anyone actually thought that was indicative of the in-service cabins. As was pointed out many times on this site, the demo config had no seat belts, IFE, galleys, lavs, etc.

In terms of cabin comfort items that will be in the production aircraft, the very large cargo bins, large windows, high cabin pressure/humidity, and the ambiance features will be fitted to in-service aircraft.
 
saturn5
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RE: 787 Cabin Less Open Than Promised?

Tue May 23, 2006 3:06 pm

It is becoming extremely boring. There was a very long thread on the identical subject but someone else was complaining about the cabin being too 'open', now you are bitching that it is not open enough. The whole issue is becoming laughable. I don't see anything revolutionary in either the 'open' or 'closed' concept. It is an artificial problem - typical of the a.net stuff. I suggest you imagine practicality of a large aircraft like 787 with all lavatories and galleys crammed into a single corner. Sorry but I fail to see anything groundbreaking in such arrangement.  Sad

By the way I have never seen any glossy photos of the 787 interior (and yes, I have seen them all) even remotely suggesting that you will have an unobstructed view of the whole cabin - which by the way I don't think would be neither a desirable nor 'revolutionary' thing from the design standpoint. Who want to sit in an sausage like amphitheatre with 240 other people.
 
andessmf
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RE: 787 Cabin Less Open Than Promised?

Tue May 23, 2006 3:07 pm

I thought that the 'revolutionary' aspects of the cabin were the bigger, windows, higher humidity and lower pressure. Correct me if I am wrong.
 
ha763
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RE: 787 Cabin Less Open Than Promised?

Tue May 23, 2006 3:10 pm

Actually, they do show a lav in the 787 mock-up pictures. The closet looking thing with the green light in the first picture and then red in the second picture is the lav.



 
saturn5
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RE: 787 Cabin Less Open Than Promised?

Tue May 23, 2006 3:11 pm

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 5):
I thought that the 'revolutionary' aspects of the cabin were the bigger, windows, higher humidity and lower pressure. Correct me if I am wrong.

And you are absolutely correct. Add to your list the special built-in lighting effects. This 'too open' (for some) or 'too closed' (for some) is becoming a daily staple of a.net 787 hair-splitting exercise.
 
Ikarus2006
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RE: 787 Cabin Less Open Than Promised?

Tue May 23, 2006 6:33 pm

Boeing and Teague Design (kind of official Boeing partner for all B industrial design based in Seattle - www.teague.com) did an interesting job with that mock-up.

However, as many of you already pointed out, the "open" design will have to compromise with galleys and lavatories in the end.
It is interesting to see what the future developments will be in those two areas.

As for galleys, I am sure there must be some possible development but it might not happen very soon - the actual level of organization and refinement of galley space is pretty high - please feel free to comment on this.

As for the lavatories, they tend to get more chic especially in Business and First and you cannot really squeeze them away in a tiny corner for economy passengers. The bottom line is that also a quite "big" passenger must be able to turn around in all safety inside it, so...
The A380 lavatories will, if I am correct, include a window and even a shower in some versions, but this is on a plane with a special size.
I wonder if Boeing will offer clients like EK, who plan to use showers according to rumors on their A380, the option of having them also on some of its twin aisle models... might not be the 787 though.

Just some considerations - your comments are welcome!
 
CRJ900
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RE: 787 Cabin Less Open Than Promised?

Tue May 23, 2006 6:57 pm

The seat maps in the link make the 787 look like a 777. All economy configs are in 3-3-3 seating, how comfy is that...

The hype is fading fast...
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
AADC10
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RE: 787 Cabin Less Open Than Promised?

Sat May 27, 2006 6:23 am

The photos were obviously shot with a very short lens giving an impression of spaceeousness. This mock-up illustrates what is possible, not necessarily what it will really look like. Does anyone remember the 747 mock up for a cargo level passenger lounge with a window looking straight down?

I suspect that the real interior is going to look similar to a 777, only narrower. Ack. It looks like the only two things the 787 will provide passengers are larger windows and higher humidity. Other than that, you will be better off in a 777.
 
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Stitch
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RE: 787 Cabin Less Open Than Promised?

Sat May 27, 2006 6:32 am

In the end, Boeing (like Airbus) puts in what the customer's have delivered to the factory's front door, including seats, lavatories, galleys, and what-not.

Boeing/Teague and Airbus/BMW just show what's possible if making money from flying their airliner isn't a concern.  devil 
 
Rheinbote
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RE: 787 Cabin Less Open Than Promised?

Sat May 27, 2006 6:44 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):
In the end, Boeing (like Airbus) puts in what the customer's have delivered to the factory's front door, including seats, lavatories, galleys, and what-not.

Note quite. With the 787, there's no more BFE in the cabin except in F class. For B and Y class customers have to chose pre-engineered standard items from the catalogue...for the sake of rapid customization cycle times. Of course, the catalogue reflects customer's requirements, but the caveat is that you actually can blame Boeing now for devising crammed interiors  Wink
 
star_world
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RE: 787 Cabin Less Open Than Promised?

Sat May 27, 2006 6:46 am

Slightly OT, but there are some interesting mistakes in that brochure. The most amusing is probably the required takeoff distance (at max range) for the 787-9 on page 19, which is shown as around 3,000km  Smile
 
MCIGuy
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RE: 787 Cabin Less Open Than Promised?

Sat May 27, 2006 7:01 am

Boeing hasn't lasted 90 years by building products that are less than promised.  Wink
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redflyer
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RE: 787 Cabin Less Open Than Promised?

Sat May 27, 2006 7:07 am

I found it interesting that the brochure makes no mention of 8-abreast seating and shows all seating diagrams with 9-abreast. Looks like they've given up on marketing the 8x seating since the majority of airlines have ordered it with 9x. Oh well, it was nice to dream while it lasted.
My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
 
atlflyer
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RE: 787 Cabin Less Open Than Promised?

Sat May 27, 2006 8:47 am

I was so excited when I first heard about the 787, but now it looks like it will be an awful plane to fly on. Yeah yeah..higher humidity, bigger windows...whatever..when it comes down to it we are going to be in those terrible 17'' seats for longer than ever. And for all of the people that say well they will be the same as the 747, so it is ok...well no it is not. I have flown on the 747 before and it is NOT a comfortable aircraft.

The WSJ had a special "Middle Seat" article today about reader's responses to the article a few days ago on the 787's 9-abreast, 17'' inch seats. All the readers were saying they would pay more $ for a 19'' seat. Also, some people noted that the airlines need to inform them better about their offerings...because until then, people will make a selection solely on price. I hope Continental comes through and puts 8-abreast seating..then it really would be the premier US Airline.

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