sunandan
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RWY 27 At Juliana - Why Not Used For TOs?

Wed May 24, 2006 12:52 am

Hi,

This has been a huge mystery to me ever since I saw the first pic from Juliana airport. Why don't they use RWY 27 for departures? It makes more sense to take-off towards the open sea rather than at a mountain, isn't it?

Any logic or reasons for not using RWY 27???


Cheers!

SS
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Dreamflight767
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RE: RWY 27 At Juliana - Why Not Used For TOs?

Wed May 24, 2006 2:22 am

They do you use it, just not often. During the week I was there, they used it just a few times. I specifically recall a BWIA 738 departing from 27. The a/c don't seem to have a performance problem going toward the mountain and the wind seems to favor a departure in that direction as well.
 
boeingguy1
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RE: RWY 27 At Juliana - Why Not Used For TOs?

Wed May 24, 2006 2:29 am

Quoting Sunandan (Thread starter):
Any logic or reasons for not using RWY 27???

I would assume the heavier aircraft, IE AF A340 and the KLM 747 might have some problems, as they would be loaded to the brim with fuel and passengers, this might be a reason.
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fokker115
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RE: RWY 27 At Juliana - Why Not Used For TOs?

Wed May 24, 2006 2:42 am

I believe the quick answer is trade winds. East to northeasterly winds are prevalent in the Carribean. That said, given that aircraft perform much better (get up quicker) taking off into the wind, runway 10 is used most of the time. When winds are lighter, or in certain weather patters, reversed, 27 may be used.

Another example of this can be seen in San Juan, where landings are mostly done on runway's 8 and 10. Same reason.
 
TIA
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RE: RWY 27 At Juliana - Why Not Used For TOs?

Wed May 24, 2006 2:47 am

They don't use the 27 for T/O because it might interfere with approach patterns.

Quoting Boeingguy1 (Reply 2):
I would assume the heavier aircraft, IE AF A340 and the KLM 747 might have some problems, as they would be loaded to the brim with fuel and passengers, this might be a reason.

I don't know what you are trying to say, but the heavies don't have a problem with the mountains either.
 
mdaigle
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RE: RWY 27 At Juliana - Why Not Used For TOs?

Wed May 24, 2006 3:09 am

It likely also saves time to taxi right to the end of 09 instead of backtracking to the end of 27 and then doing a 180deg turn to takeoff.

Michel
 
boeingfanyyz
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RE: RWY 27 At Juliana - Why Not Used For TOs?

Wed May 24, 2006 3:12 am

The two main reasons are winds and performance (i.e. ability to climb-out and turn without hitting the mountains).

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Boeinglover24
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RE: RWY 27 At Juliana - Why Not Used For TOs?

Wed May 24, 2006 12:54 pm

The fact that there are many tourists at maho beach who flew thousands of miles to see planes land maybe a factor.....
Uhhh What?
 
american762
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RE: RWY 27 At Juliana - Why Not Used For TOs?

Wed May 24, 2006 1:31 pm

That doesnt have much to do with it, anyway, if the AF 340's can handle the hill, take it not as well as the 757 rocket take-offs, theres no reason not use it, especially if winds are more preferable. While I was there, I had the privelage of seeing a Curacao DC-9, a Falcon 2000, and an AA 757 take the Rwy 27 departure straight out.
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777wt
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RE: RWY 27 At Juliana - Why Not Used For TOs?

Wed May 24, 2006 3:17 pm

AF A340 doesn't seem to have problems with the mountain side departure from TNCM


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And as for RWY 27, they do use it:


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lamedianaranja
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RE: RWY 27 At Juliana - Why Not Used For TOs?

Wed May 24, 2006 3:51 pm

Quoting Boeingguy1 (Reply 2):
the KLM 747 might have some problems, as they would be loaded to the brim with fuel and passengers

KLM is never fully loaded, on purpose, as they go to CUR before starting out back to AMS.

AF also goes to one of the other French islands I believe, before going back to CDG.
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LTU932
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RE: RWY 27 At Juliana - Why Not Used For TOs?

Wed May 24, 2006 4:14 pm

Quoting TIA (Reply 4):
They don't use the 27 for T/O because it might interfere with approach patterns.

 checkmark 
Along with the issue of prevailing winds, that's one of the reasons. With those mountains at the end of Runway 09, it's also very difficult for an aircraft such as a 757 or 767 to land on Runway 27. It's safe to say that landings on 27 are even rarer than takeoffs from 27.

Quoting TIA (Reply 4):
I don't know what you are trying to say, but the heavies don't have a problem with the mountains either.

That's because 747s and also 777s are heavily weight restricted and have to make a fuel stop before continuing to Europe. 767s, A330s and A340-200/-300s can fly nonstop back to places such as AMS and/or CDG. Don't know about the L-1011, DC-10 and MD-11, but I'm sure those can also fly nonstop to Europe to SXM.

Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 10):
AF also goes to one of the other French islands I believe, before going back to CDG.

That was the case when AF brought their 747s to SXM. With the A340 however, they can make it back nonstop to CDG. SS does make a fuel stop in Guadeloupe or somewhere on the French Carribean Islands since they use 747s. On some occasions though, SS operates the A330-200, which can make the trip nonstop to ORY.
 
787kq
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RE: RWY 27 At Juliana - Why Not Used For TOs?

Wed May 24, 2006 9:48 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 11):
Quoting TIA (Reply 4):
They don't use the 27 for T/O because it might interfere with approach patterns.


Along with the issue of prevailing winds, that's one of the reasons. With those mountains at the end of Runway 09, it's also very difficult for an aircraft such as a 757 or 767 to land on Runway 27. It's safe to say that landings on 27 are even rarer than takeoffs from 27.

Wrong!

Its the prevailing winds just as at other airports in that part of the Caribbean, hills or no hills: STX, STT, SJU, Antigua, Tortola, etc.

Even though its one of the most popular airports in the region, its not busy enough to interfere with landing patterns, if it made sense to takeoff that direction. So when the winds change, takeoffs are in that direction, though fewer landings reverse. Same situation at STT, though except for FAA testing I can't recall commercial jets landing over the hills.
 
twal1011727
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RE: RWY 27 At Juliana - Why Not Used For TOs?

Thu May 25, 2006 1:39 am

Quoting Mdaigle (Reply 5):
It likely also saves time to taxi right to the end of 09 instead of backtracking to the end of 27 and then doing a 180deg turn to takeoff.

Ummm...when they land on rwy 09 they have to back taxi anyways to get back to the terminal .

Quoting TIA (Reply 4):
They don't use the 27 for T/O because it might interfere with approach patterns.

That's tough luck....Its the actual winds that drive what direction takeoffs and landings are - not prevailing....Prevailing winds are used in selecting which way a runway will be oriented when built (when there's available land.)

All/Most airlines takeoff/landing data is based on a headwind and adds penalties if you have a tailwind up to 10 knots. If over 10 knots tailwind ops are prohibited.
KD