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TZTriStar500
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L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Wed May 24, 2006 1:25 pm

ATA L-1011-100, N194AT, s/n 1230 has been sold to a company in Miami for spares. It is leaving IND for MIA on Wed. May 24 at about 1:00p local IND time. It is going to MIA instead of OPF for all you MIA spotters. It should arrive about 3:30-4p Miami time if all goes well.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
theweave33
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Wed May 24, 2006 2:05 pm

I've noticed ATA L-1011s on flightaware.com doing trans-atlantics to Dallas. Just curious but these can't be passenger flights right?

Though it is sad to see yet another go for spares. At least it's honorable.

Never got to ride one of those birds nor a tri-jet for that matter.
 
pwm2txlhopper
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Wed May 24, 2006 2:47 pm

Quoting Theweave33 (Reply 1):

ATA still operates military charter operations, transporting troops overseas using their L-1011's.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Wed May 24, 2006 3:26 pm

Yes, TZ still flys military R&R flights into DFW using L-1011s. We just had 2 TZ L-1011s here, at the same time, over the weekend. They were parked on the DL 5E Ramp. That is where DL use to park their L-1011s sometimes.
 
skoker
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Wed May 24, 2006 9:17 pm

I was lucky enough to have my first flight ever be on a TS L-1011 YYZ-MCO a few days before they retired. Nice planes, I loved the ride  Sad
 
chase
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Wed May 24, 2006 10:36 pm

So with N194AT gone now (well, in 3 hours), which L-1011s remain in ATA's fleet? Is it:

N161AT
N162AT
N163AT
N164AT
? If someone could please give a quick status of each a/c (i.e. C/D check status, impending retirement date, etc.) I would really appreciate it.
 
wjcandee
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Thu May 25, 2006 3:56 am

Quoting Theweave33 (Reply 1):
I've noticed ATA L-1011s on flightaware.com doing trans-atlantics to Dallas. Just curious but these can't be passenger flights right?

As noted above, they are military charters. DFW is a big overseas embarkation point for international military charter flights on ATA.

Quoting Chase (Reply 5):
So with N194AT gone now (well, in 3 hours), which L-1011s remain in ATA's fleet? Is it:

N161AT
N162AT
N163AT
N164AT
? If someone could please give a quick status of each a/c (i.e. C/D check status, impending retirement date, etc.) I would really appreciate it.

You got the numbers right. Some of the dates (like next c/d check, etc.) have been published in previous threads. What I can tell you is that 163 and 164 were D-checked at GAMCO. 164 went first and came out in late 2005, whereupon 163 went in, and came out early in the 1st quarter of 2006. IIRC, the D-checks for the other two are due sometime next year. It gets a little tricky because under ATA's maint program, they normally do the D at the same time at the closest "C", so that becomes an important date in their thinking as to the financial viability of proceeding with additional maint or retiring the aircraft. Don't know what progress they are making at the moment in finding the optimal replacement, which is a 763ER.
 
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LN-MOW
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Thu May 25, 2006 4:09 am

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 6):
You got the numbers right.

... but you don't!  biggrin 

162 was the first to go in - followed by 163. 161 and 164 are due next year.
- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
 
B757capt
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Thu May 25, 2006 4:12 am

The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
 
B6JFKH81
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Thu May 25, 2006 7:09 am

Quoting Skoker (Reply 4):
I was lucky enough to have my first flight ever be on a TS L-1011 YYZ-MCO a few days before they retired. Nice planes, I loved the ride

My first flight on a real passenger a/c (not the C172 I was used to) when I was a kid was TWA L-1011 JFK-LAX r/t. Later, I became a member of the mile high club on a Delta L-1011. The L-1011 definitely has memories for me!  cry 

I would love to see it come back to JFK.
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
wjcandee
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Thu May 25, 2006 8:57 am

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 9):
Later, I became a member of the mile high club on a Delta L-1011

Eeeeew. Too much disclosure. But congratulations!!! Anything you particularly liked about the L1011 lavs? Or -- god forbid -- am I assuming too much? (Please don't answer.)
 
clipperno1
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Thu May 25, 2006 6:32 pm

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Thread starter):
has been sold to a company in Miami for spares.

Does anybody know who that company is? Is APW putting that L1011 that has been stored in MIA back online?
"I really don't know one plane from the other. To me they are just marginal costs with wings."� Alfred Kahn, 1977
 
miamiair
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Thu May 25, 2006 9:39 pm

Landed yesterday 1632 on 26R
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Fri May 26, 2006 1:04 am

Quoting ClipperNo1 (Reply 11):
Does anybody know who that company is? Is APW putting that L1011 that has been stored in MIA back online?

The company is called AVTEC. They own N306GB as of 2004. Its not longer with Arrow.

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 12):
Landed yesterday 1632 on 26R

AMTRAN 7039 Heavy landed on 8L.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
ltbewr
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Fri May 26, 2006 2:49 am

How long will N194AT be at MIA? Will they just dismantle and remove the most valuable parts off then scrap the rest in a few months? And why MIA, wouldn't the dessert be a better place for storage? Still, it's too bad it has to finally go to it's end  tombstone 
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Fri May 26, 2006 3:57 am

As far as I know, N194AT will never leave MIA. It was specifcally flown there because that is where N306GB is located so as to save on transporting parts, engines, etc. for its repair. The rest will be presumably scrapped.

She was delivered March 8, 1982 to TWA as N8034T. Leased/purchased by ATA in March, 1994, she served us well for 12 years.

Good Bye Old Girl!
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
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treebeard787
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Sat May 27, 2006 6:43 am

Good Bye to another beautiful trijet!
R.I.P N194AT
Allons-y!
 
miamix707
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Sat May 27, 2006 8:17 am

I was at MIA yesturday and didn't see it, at what time did it land?

Did they blank out the ATA titles or is it in full colors?


So its going to donate parts for that white L1011 that has been there for some years now. I hope it gets repainted for a new operator. In case anyone hasn't noticed, there are no more L1011s operating at MIA.  crying   Smile

[Edited 2006-05-27 01:21:56]
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Sat May 27, 2006 11:08 am

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 17):
I was at MIA yesturday and didn't see it, at what time did it land?

Did they blank out the ATA titles or is it in full colors?

So its going to donate parts for that white L1011 that has been there for some years now. I hope it gets repainted for a new operator. In case anyone hasn't noticed, there are no more L1011s operating at MIA. crying Smile

It landed on May 24 at 432p local on 8L. It was parked in front of the ex-Arrow/Eastern hanger on the NE side of the field. They may have moved it over to F&E next to Commercial Jet by now to be closer to N306GB.

194 was the last ATA aircraft in the old American Trans Air blue/gold colors and it wore that livery when it landed in MIA. The new owners are supposed to paint out the titles and markings before it is parted out in accordance with the sale agreement to avoid any further references to ATA.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
WarmNuts
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Sat May 27, 2006 11:29 am

I took a photo of two beautiful ATA Tristars at DFW a week ago today. They were lined up one behind the other on an apron just off Terminal C. I was blessed to have a chance to fly on l1011's operated by both TWA and DL back in the late 70's...  Smile
 
c5onknees
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Sat May 27, 2006 12:10 pm

My Dad probably has over 1,000 hours in N194AT... sad, sad, sad to see those GREAT airplanes go. Way advanced for it's time... still advanced to this day. UNLATCHED FOREVER!!!!!!!
 
b52murph
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Sun May 28, 2006 2:53 am

Too bad to see her go...194 took me over here to Turkey last July. I would hope that one of these TZ Tri-Stars would end up as a display for the CRAF or Patriot Express in the USAF museum at Wright Patterson before they're all gone.

Big version: Width: 3308 Height: 1942 File size: 455kb
 
c5onknees
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Sun May 28, 2006 7:06 am

B52Murph, If you went to Adana(sp?) my Dad flew that trip I believe.
 
jran225
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Sun May 28, 2006 8:50 am

It indeed is sad to see one of my favorite birds go like this. At least I can say I've seen her (shameless plug)..


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Cheers,
-Omar S.  Smile
Never tell your girlfriend about all the 'action' you're getting at the airport - only photogs understand that.
 
b52murph
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Mon May 29, 2006 5:36 am

Quoting C5onknees (Reply 22):
B52Murph, If you went to Adana(sp?) my Dad flew that trip I believe.

Yup...still here and will be until October `06

Quoting Jran225 (Reply 23):
It indeed is sad to see one of my favorite birds go like this. At least I can say I've seen her (shameless plug)..

Does anybody know if she went to the retirement with that oddball left-engine cowling? I remembered noticing that leaving BWI last summer and see it again in the pics taken in May `05.
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Mon May 29, 2006 10:03 am

Quoting B52murph (Reply 24):
Does anybody know if she went to the retirement with that oddball left-engine cowling? I remembered noticing that leaving BWI last summer and see it again in the pics taken in May `05.

yup, the No. 1 engine still had the gray nose and hinge cowls.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
miamix707
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Tue May 30, 2006 12:57 am

I think I'm lucky to have a shot of this great looking plane at MCO in the summer of '04, one landing and one departing. One of the last (if not the last time) it flew to Orlando.

How many ATA L1011s are active at the moment/any going to be painted in the new scheme? The current is my least favorite of ATA's three liveries but it'd sure be interesting to see them wearing it.
 
wjcandee
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Tue May 30, 2006 1:17 am

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 26):
How many ATA L1011s are active at the moment/any going to be painted in the new scheme? The current is my least favorite of ATA's three liveries but it'd sure be interesting to see them wearing it.

There are threads with more detail elsewhere, but the short answer is this:

4 are currently operating, all of which are -500s. Two have been through a "D-check" at GAMCO, after which repainting is necessary. At that time, they were painted at GAMCO with the basics of the present color scheme without the decals (i.e. the "ATA" billboards and tail). The decals were very expensive, and deemed unnecessary at the time. Actually, the aircraft look very elegant without the titles and just the colors, but there was a rumour on here a few months ago that ATA had decided to spring for the decals. (The reason for the expensiveness was that the decals are made up of -- for lack of a better term -- pixels, and just blowing up the ones used on the 737/757s would look dopey, so the artwork needed to be redone.) The other two are in the "You're On Vacation" livery with the streamers and confetti that I also like very much.
 
c5onknees
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Tue May 30, 2006 1:54 am

WjCandee, they did'nt paint the ATA titles not because of the pixels being blown up or whatever, it was because the majority of charters picked up by the tri-hogs are AMC related and that's what they want, something plain.
 
DTWAGENT
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Tue May 30, 2006 3:06 am

It is a sad day when the L-1011 does not fly any more. My 2 flight ever was on a Non-Stop DTW-TPA flight back in the 1970's. I remember boarding this plane on Concourse C gate 7. DL used the old stick method for seat assignments. And I thought this Bird was the best. Still do. I would love to fly on the L-1011 one more time before she is taken out of the skies completely. My last flight was on a DL L-1011 from MCO-ATL back just before they started to take them out of service.

Thanks Delta for the great memories on the L-1011's

chuck
 
AirEMS
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Tue May 30, 2006 5:53 am

I would just like to say thanks to thoes who fly our Military, to thoes in the Military, and thoes who have lost their lives while in the Military, on this Memorial Day.. God Bless and I hope you all come home soon.  pray 


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jran225
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Tue May 30, 2006 6:16 am

Quoting AirEMS (Reply 30):
I would just like to say thanks to thoes who fly our Military, to thoes in the Military, and thoes who have lost their lives while in the Military, on this Memorial Day.. God Bless and I hope you all come home soon.

While I am totally behind you here regarding the subject of your reply, I must ask how you got to posting this in a thread dealing with N194AT's retirement, lol. Oh, and by the way, you spelled thOSE incorrectly. Have a good memorial day everybody!  

Regards,
-Omar S.

[Edited 2006-05-29 23:16:38]
Never tell your girlfriend about all the 'action' you're getting at the airport - only photogs understand that.
 
wjcandee
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Tue May 30, 2006 7:51 am

Quoting C5onknees (Reply 28):
WjCandee, they did'nt paint the ATA titles not because of the pixels being blown up or whatever, it was because the majority of charters picked up by the tri-hogs are AMC related and that's what they want, something plain.

Yeah, huh? I'll take your word for it, because your Dad flies for them, but do me a favor and note the following (look in reply 12):

RE: 194AT Back In Business? (by TZTriStar500 Nov 5 2005 in Civil Aviation)#ID2420615

Also, look at reply 22 here:

RE: ATA L-1011 Aircraft (by MDorBust Mar 9 2006 in Civil Aviation)#ID2648279

It says the masks have been ordered and it's just being decided where to send the a/c for painting.

[Edited 2006-05-30 00:52:55]
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Tue May 30, 2006 11:51 am

Quoting C5onknees (Reply 28):
WjCandee, they did'nt paint the ATA titles not because of the pixels being blown up or whatever, it was because the majority of charters picked up by the tri-hogs are AMC related and that's what they want, something plain.

Absolutely incorrect. It was indeed for cost, but it was decided earlier this year to go ahead and spend the money and add the rest of the scheme. This had become necessary because the AMC actually did NOT like the indiscriminate look and wanted the operator name prominently displayed. A set of paint masks were actually procured and then there was difficulty finding a vendor to perform the paint work.

However, things changed again about a month ago and it was now decided to simply add a 12" ATA logo to the fuselage just above the window line and aft of the forward doors. So, NO, the L15's will NOT be receiving the full ATA new color scheme. Unless, of course, things change again Big grin and things change very quickly around here at times  confused .
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
wjcandee
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Tue May 30, 2006 12:55 pm

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 33):
A set of paint masks were actually procured and then there was difficulty finding a vendor to perform the paint work.

Yay!

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 33):
However, things changed again about a month ago and it was now decided to simply add a 12" ATA logo to the fuselage just above the window line and aft of the forward doors.

Yuck.

Of course it's not a public company at the moment, so we have even less to say about things but [RANT ON]: They DIDN'T spend the money for the masks when GAMCO would have been perfectly happy to do the painting, then they DO spend the money for the masks and procure them, then they say they can't find anywhere to do the painting? Sheeesh. So they just threw that money in the street? (Well, I guess it could be used on the 767...but that would interfere with my rant...) SHEEEESH!! [RANT OFF].

I realize that I know nothing about this, and it's not like ATA's maint people don't have a list, but just 'cause I'm disappointed...

How about AAR, right across the tarmac at IND? Oh yeah, they spent forever on the 737s. (Oh, yeah, and maybe those were painted elsewhere and AAR just did the interior mods?...see I don't know about this stuff...) Hmmm... Cascade Aerospace? We know they do good, on-time work. (But maybe their paint shop isn't big enough for an L1011, as all I know about is them doing 757s and 737s for CO.) Hell, just bring them to JFK and get some a.nutters out there to do it. Gimme a mask and a spray gun and I'll be happy to help.

Sigh.

[Edited 2006-05-30 06:10:53]

[Edited 2006-05-30 06:12:21]
 
wjcandee
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Tue May 30, 2006 1:04 pm

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 6):
164 went first and came out in late 2005, whereupon 163 went in, and came out early in the 1st quarter of 2006

By the way, it's too late for me to edit this, but that's a brain cramp on my part. I meant to say 162 went first. 164 hasn't been D-checked recently and is still has the palm tree on the tail, as does 161. Sorry for the inaccurate info.

Oh, and I now see that LN-MOW caught it already and corrected me. Sorry I didn't see that before. I'll leave this post and my apology up anyway.

[Edited 2006-05-30 06:06:14]
 
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ATA L1011
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Tue May 30, 2006 1:12 pm

Very sad, I'm thinking this was the last active "passenger carrying" standard length L10 in North America, the L15's are good but nothing beats the sounds of the ole 22-b's on the -1/100's. Remember working on it just over 2 months ago......
Treat others as you expect to be treated!
 
miamix707
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Tue May 30, 2006 11:18 pm

Quoting ATA L1011 (Reply 36):
Very sad, I'm thinking this was the last active "passenger carrying" standard length L10 in North America, the L15's are good but nothing beats the sounds of the ole 22-b's on the -1/100's. Remember working on it just over 2 months ago......

the engines on the 100s sound different than on the 500s?

So whats up with those decals? All for a scheme that looks weird anyways. Just paint a simpler livery with the Letters and logo the same color. It would probably look better anyways and definitely a lot nicer than a lame 12" sticker above the windows..


I have to say it's not so interesting anymore seeing all these twins everywhere, 767s A330s.. blah. I'd much rather see an L1011  Smile
 
c5onknees
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Tue May 30, 2006 11:21 pm

From what I heard from the Flight Crews, it was also a problem with taking the airplanes off of the line to paint each one as they stay pretty busy, but what do I know? I could be wrong. Does management really tell anything of truth to the Pilots anyway? Hah, I stand corrected.
 
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Wed May 31, 2006 6:12 am

Yes Miami the 22'bs on the 1/100's sounds much different than the 524's on the -500. They much more "melidous" to the ear and they are the ones that make that deep mooing sound/resonation when starting up and when power is applied, the 524 does not.
Treat others as you expect to be treated!
 
lufthansi
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Wed May 31, 2006 7:29 am

N164 was on CDG these days! They brought many soldiers along for a celebration at a military grave yard at Paris. Looked like a music corp. They arrived from Indianapolis USA and after deplaning everyone at CDG they flew to Hahn near EDDF (this AB has been closed). Today (Wednesday) they were picking up the soldiers again at CDG and brought them back to the US. I had a nice talking with everybody on board and OF COURSE I GOT MY CAMERA ALONG!!! But since I am collecting more than 140 rejections I don't think the pics will make it. Sadly because I went to the cockpit as well. Everything is like back some 20 years. Wow! The place for the flight engineer is something my "Airbus-generation" is not used to.
Life starts at take-off!
 
wjcandee
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Wed May 31, 2006 10:04 am

Quoting Lufthansi (Reply 40):
But since I am collecting more than 140 rejections I don't think the pics will make it.

Hey. Thank you for your report. May I suggest that you submit your photos to www.myaviation.net ? If you try to post them there, they won't be rejected, as I understand it, they just go up on the site without editing. Because myaviation.net is a "sister" site to this one, you can then link to those photos. I would be interested in seeing your photos of this nice old L1011, so please think about putting them up and then letting us know that you have done so. Good luck.
 
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LN-MOW
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Wed May 31, 2006 8:04 pm

Quoting Lufthansi (Reply 40):
N164 was on CDG these days!

And 162 will be there in an hour or two to pick them up again ...
- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
 
lufthansi
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:11 am

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 41):
Hey. Thank you for your report. May I suggest that you submit your photos to www.myaviation.net ? If you try to post them there, they won't be rejected, as I understand it, they just go up on the site without editing. Because myaviation.net is a "sister" site to this one, you can then link to those photos. I would be interested in seeing your photos of this nice old L1011, so please think about putting them up and then letting us know that you have done so. Good luck.

Ok I'll upload them. The link follows as I am ready with it. Thank you for your interest! That makes me smile

They're uploaded but don't appear on the site yet... So let's wait. Maybe you just search for N164AT. It has to be online soon...

[Edited 2006-05-31 21:27:09]
Life starts at take-off!
 
lufthansi
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:18 pm

The pictures are online! search for the registration N164AT and you can see my name as the photographer. I hope you like them a bit. No a.net qualtiy because the weather sucks since 2 weeks.
Life starts at take-off!
 
wjcandee
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RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:03 pm

Quoting Lufthansi (Reply 44):
The pictures are online! search for the registration N164AT and you can see my name as the photographer.

I just reviewed them and like them all very much. Thank you for sharing them! I enjoyed the cockpit and cabin photos and I particularly liked the exterior photos as some of them really show how big the aircraft is. I also am intrigued that the paint still looks so good, given how long ago the paint was originally applied. Maybe they have done touch-ups since then?
 
lufthansi
Posts: 412
Joined: Wed May 15, 2002 12:26 am

RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:11 pm

I don't know about the paint. But I have one more goody for you! We have another TriStar at CDG since 1 year. I took a lot of shots and I will upload them right now. Your idea with myaviation was good! I never wanted to use the site because it may do harm to me as a photographer. But I will try my best not to upload any stupid shot. Maybe that can increase my appearance in the spotter scene... A6-BSM is the reg you should search for!
Life starts at take-off!
 
wjcandee
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Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:50 pm

Quoting Lufthansi (Reply 46):
A6-BSM is the reg you should search for!

I will! Thanks!
 
User avatar
LN-MOW
Posts: 1687
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2000 12:24 am

RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:36 pm

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 45):
also am intrigued that the paint still looks so good, given how long ago the paint was originally applied.

I worked 164 yesterday, and if you get up close you'll see it needs some 'touchups'. It's starting to peel here and there .....

BTW - our friend at CDG seems to have missed 162 ...
- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
 
EasternSon
Posts: 637
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:07 pm

RE: L-1011 N194AT Is On The Move!

Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:27 am

There's an L10 in Greensboro, does anyone know where it came from or who owns it now?

Will it be put back into service, or is it a parts plane?

Thanks!
"The only people for me are the mad ones...." Jack Kerouac