scoljet
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Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Thu May 25, 2006 1:58 am

With the recent merger I can understand that there are a lot of buses in the combined fleet. However why did US not even consider the 787? They have operated 737/757 with much success as has HP. Will US become all bus fleet?? If so what is the reasoning? I know they are somewhat cash strapped but come on you gotta look at the return on investment as well. Any thoughts?
 
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ERJ170
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Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Thu May 25, 2006 2:00 am

US ordered the Airbii because Airbus gave them some cash. End of story. However, US has recently paid off Airbus.. I'm not saying they will renig out their 350 order.. but I do believe that the new US will be looking at the 787 too.. but that is JUST MY BELIEF!

But I don't think US has completely ruled Boeing out the picture..
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dutchjet
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Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Thu May 25, 2006 2:21 am

This is a long, and some consider, controversial story.........lets just go for the short version.

1. US+HP were each large Airbus operators.

2. US and HP agreed to merge as US exited bankruptcy.

3. The newly combined airline needed cash, sometimes called exit financing.

4. Airbus agreed to loan US/HP a good amount of money; not unusual, as both airlines have lots of Airbus planes which Airbus wants to remain in the air with this airline.

5. As part of the deal, US/HP agreed to take 20 A350s for future delivery.

6. US/HP has paid back the Airbus loan, and not knowing any specific details, we assume that the order for the A350s remains.

7. HP/US was to use the new A350s to expand and replace existing aircraft.

8. With the entire A350 program "up in the air", its hard to say what will happen. When the new and improved model line-up and stats are available for the A350/370, US/HP, like other airlines, must redetermine if this is the aircraft that they want.

9. Execs over at US Air have already stated that they are not interested in the super-sized A350/370-1000.......and that they would not take an airplane bigger than the original A350-8......thus its totally not clear if US will end up with A350s in any shape or form at this time.
 
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Thu May 25, 2006 5:41 am

US East had vowed to never again order a Boeing, After Boeing blamed the rudder hard-over crash of that 737 on the pilots and their training.

However, US West (the controlling factor these days) never made such a statement.
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spartanmjf
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Thu May 25, 2006 6:26 am

Why? Because the original A350 concept has been a market-driven success and enjoyed widespread praise by all major airlines.

It had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with bankruptcy financing provided by Airbus.

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StarCityFlyr
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Thu May 25, 2006 6:29 am

As a dear old friend used to say, "there's a lot of slip between the cup and the lip."

The fact that the A-350 design is still "up in the air" (forgive the pun), I think it's reasonable to presume that US Airways is looking at all their options when it comes to fleet replenishment and replacement. For any carrier to emphatically announce an unequivocal position on equipment this day and time would seem to be short sighted at best.

I think Mr. Parker and his team are evaluating all of their options. IMHO, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see some new Boeing metal in new US Airways colors in the years to come.

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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Thu May 25, 2006 6:33 am

Quoting Spartanmjf (Reply 4):
It had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with bankruptcy financing provided by Airbus.

Are you serious? I"m not saying any aircraft is better than any other. I'm not saying any aircraft is more efficient, better looking, or more popular than any other. I'm saying the main reason US is a A350 orderer is because they got $250 Million from Airbus. Nothing is wrong with that. Boeing has helped a lot of other airlines out who ordered Boeing.. But that is the main reason US is on the 350 order book. And if anyone disagrees with that.. well then.. well.. then disagree then! Big grin
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dutchjet
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Thu May 25, 2006 6:36 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 6):

Are you serious? I"m not saying any aircraft is better than any other. I'm not saying any aircraft is more efficient, better looking, or more popular than any other. I'm saying the main reason US is a A350 orderer is because they got $250 Million from Airbus. Nothing is wrong with that. Boeing has helped a lot of other airlines out who ordered Boeing.. But that is the main reason US is on the 350 order book. And if anyone disagrees with that.. well then.. well.. then disagree then!

I think he was teasing......

And, before the Airbus chearleaders come out to play: Airbus brought this on themselves......linking the financing with the order for new aircraft was a controversial move, but we have been though all of this before.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Thu May 25, 2006 6:40 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):
I think he was teasing......

Ohhh.. oops.. my bad.. sorry..
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Tom12
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Thu May 25, 2006 6:52 am

I definetly think it was to do with the 250 million dollars US recived from Airbus
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atmx2000
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Thu May 25, 2006 7:02 am

Quoting Tom12 (Reply 9):
I definetly think it was to do with the 250 million dollars US recived from Airbus

Airbus was pretty flexible with US/HP on other issues I believe, such as delaying delivery and shifting around deposits for existing orders. That no doubt built up good will. Of course Airbus had its reasons, namely keeping US/HP afloat so there wouldn't be a massive influx of used A320s and A330s onto the market.

I think the size of what Airbus puts out will be key. US isn't suddenly going to be able to fill a larger aircraft from its PHL, PHX and Charlote hubs, especially since they aren't the only US Star Alliance airline, and UA has hubs in cities with greater international O&D.
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airways45
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Thu May 25, 2006 8:47 am

Don't you think that if they were happy enough with having A350s replacing A330s (or adding to their fleet) they will be even happier with the all new A350, especially as Airbus is likely to want to keep US as a customer and give them the better aircraft for the same price. Why would they want to switch? Its not like their A330s or old or anything...

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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Thu May 25, 2006 8:55 am

Quoting Spartanmjf (Reply 4):
It had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with bankruptcy financing provided by Airbus.

I was in PIT on business with USAirways when the America West-USAirways merger was announced and that was all they were talking about. Airbus advanced USAirways the money to help form the merger and as doing so they placed the order for the A350. Also announced was they would be going to an all Airbus fleet.

Kidding or not, that is what was reported

[Edited 2006-05-25 01:58:46]
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Thu May 25, 2006 8:57 am

The A350 order also has too many conditions attached to it. The plane has to meet certain promises made by Airbus.
 
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Thu May 25, 2006 9:03 am

Quoting TIA (Reply 13):
The plane has to meet certain promises made by Airbus.

And if it does not you will see US with 787's

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flydreamliner
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Thu May 25, 2006 9:52 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 3):
US East had vowed to never again order a Boeing, After Boeing blamed the rudder hard-over crash of that 737 on the pilots and their training.

Didn't they take delivery of some 757s after that - or was it before? You really think they'd take the lesser of two competing aircraft because of that?

Quoting Spartanmjf (Reply 4):

It had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with bankruptcy financing provided by Airbus.

Nothing? I don't know that anyone credible would agree with that.

Quoting Tom12 (Reply 9):
I definetly think it was to do with the 250 million dollars US recived from Airbus

I have to believe 250 million dollars didn't hurt Airbus' sales pitch for the A350.

Quoting TIA (Reply 13):
The A350 order also has too many conditions attached to it. The plane has to meet certain promises made by Airbus.

I wonder what Airbus' rumored complete overhaul of A350 - if it happens, will effect that.

Quoting Hawk44 (Reply 14):
And if it does not you will see US with 787's

I wouldn't say odds are great, but I wouldn't yet rule it out either... 787 is on a roll, so to speak, and if A350 is going to be redesigned completely, and put back another number of years further, they may not want to wait (as some of their 767s are getting very tired) and may opt for the 787.
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centrair
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Thu May 25, 2006 10:19 am

Doesn't US want to expand to new international destinations that are currently out of reach with their current fleet? An A333 can't do PHX-FRA can it? US has no A332s and even if they ordered some they might have some limits on PHX-Europe. The A350 can do that plus maybe help open routes to Asia and other places out of the range of the A330.

I think that there are multiple reasons for the A350. Expansion with a plane that can go from PHX to Europe and maybe to Asia while staying with a plan for an all Airbus fleet combined with the need for exit financing from Bankruptcy. It seems like a win win situation. Airbus gets orders for the launch of a new aircraft from a loyal customer and US gets exit financing and an aircraft that can helps with expansion.

Wasn't US going to take delivery of the A350 in 2012 anyway? If that is the case, they don't loose much.
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HPAEAA
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Thu May 25, 2006 1:29 pm

Quoting Spartanmjf (Reply 4):
It had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with bankruptcy financing provided by Airbus.

If I recall, the A350 Order was linked to the financing for the HP/US Merger, and also was linked to Airbus agreeing to delay the A320 Deliveries that HP had on the books.... last but not least, I think that the A350 also had been a stipulation of the deal with Airbus, lets remember that at the time Airbus was still trying to get the program off the ground, having very few orders on the books... last but not least while I'm not saying that the "new" US couldn't launch flights from PHX I think it might be unlikely... as it stands PHX has a limited Business market, that's why HP had adjusted their Revenue mix and became a "Low Cost Carrier" back around 2001.... they believed that there wasn't enough traffic to sustain the typical business/discount mix... and lets not forget the 747 runs they had.... anyways.. that's my horse... we'll see what actually happens...
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Thu May 25, 2006 1:39 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 3):
US East had vowed to never again order a Boeing, After Boeing blamed the rudder hard-over crash of that 737 on the pilots and their training.

I don't believe the spat between "US East" and Boeing emanated from the rudder hard-over crash. That crash happened in 1994. Boeing and US East had a legal spat in the late 90's over the cancellation of a bunch of Boeing jets that US had on order. (It was when former CEO Wolf decided to go with an all-Airbus fleet and basically thumbed his nose at Boeing.) From what I remember, the dispute turned ugly before finally being settled, but the result was that each pretty much stated publicly that their business relationship was over.
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Thu May 25, 2006 2:00 pm

CO + Boeing = Airbus + US.
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SonOfACaptain
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Thu May 25, 2006 2:27 pm

No matter what happens with the A350, I am sure US has a plan.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 16):
US has no A332s and even if they ordered some they might have some limits on PHX-Europe.

They already have some on order.

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vega
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Thu May 25, 2006 3:18 pm

Quoting TIA (Reply 13):
The A350 order also has too many conditions attached to it. The plane has to meet certain promises made by Airbus.

I can't believe how many times this has been discussed. US Airways must show that the 350's "performance" is inferior to the 787 in order to switch sides. How a schedule delay of say 2 years fits into the contract is a new issue. I'd bet Airbus will pull out a proposal to provide US with an interim Airbus solution. The only in-production equivalent aircraft (in range and size) that I'm aware of is the A340/200.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 16):
Doesn't US want to expand to new international destinations that are currently out of reach with their current fleet? An A333 can't do PHX-FRA can it? US has no A332s and even if they ordered some they might have some limits on PHX-Europe. The A350 can do that plus maybe help open routes to Asia and other places out of the range of the A330.

The 330-200 will easily make PHX-NRT or PHX-FRA, or PHL-HNL, or PHL-RIO, but not PHL-Asia. The 350 would be needed for PHL-Asia non-stop.
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centrair
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Thu May 25, 2006 3:52 pm

Thank you Vega and SonofaCaptain. I learn new things everyday.

They have 10 on order. But when are they to be delivered?
They have 9 A333s right?
They ordered something like 39 A350s. That is a huge boost in capacity!

With the A332 they could get at least one landing slot into NRT and they have the gate space especially with T1 Star Alliance wing opening in a week. They could also get slots at NGO and KIX allowing them to fly there and offer connections to UA and NH Inter-Asia and NH domestic. (I can dream... can't I?)

[Edited 2006-05-25 09:17:03]
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columba
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Thu May 25, 2006 3:52 pm

Two reasons:
1)
Because they have a huge A320 and A330 fleet and are satisfied with Airbus.
The A350 is the successor of the A330 offering them commonality with the rest of the fleet.

2)
Airbus gave them a loan to get out of Chapter 11 and make the merger possible.
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Thu May 25, 2006 4:43 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 1):
US ordered the Airbii because Airbus gave them some cash.

Thats pretty much it plain and simple, Airbus gave US the financing they needed to exit bankruptcy in return for A350 orders. Basically buying themselves orders. To me thats pathetic, and yes even if Boeing did something like that too, it would be pathetic. http://www.aviationpast.com/A350.html has some info regarding that, and the background of the A350 program.
 
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Thu May 25, 2006 7:13 pm

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 24):
To me thats pathetic, and yes even if Boeing did something like that too, it would be pathetic.

That Airbus at the same time, possibly saved thousands of jobs in an industry that is already down the toilet in the US is pathetic too?

US$ 250million in loans for a 20 widebody aircraft deal (to start with) is not a bad deal. At listprice these 20 aircraft are worth roughly US$ 3.3billion, US$ 250million
represent less than 8%. If US really wanted the 787, Boeing might have done them the favor too.
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columba
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Thu May 25, 2006 7:24 pm

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 24):
Thats pretty much it plain and simple, Airbus gave US the financing they needed to exit bankruptcy in return for A350 orders. Basically buying themselves orders. To me thats pathetic, and yes even if Boeing did something like that too, it would be pathetic. http://www.aviationpast.com/A350.html has some info regarding that, and the background of the A350 program.

US is one of the largest Airbus customers - if they would have gone bankrupt the market would be full with second hand A320s and would have ruined this market segment for Airbus. Therefore Airbus can not allow that US or NW will go down.
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Thu May 25, 2006 11:19 pm

Quoting Airways45 (Reply 11):
Don't you think that if they were happy enough with having A350s replacing A330s (or adding to their fleet) they will be even happier with the all new A350, especially as Airbus is likely to want to keep US as a customer and give them the better aircraft for the same price. Why would they want to switch? Its not like their A330s or old or anything...

I think the correct answer was given earlier:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 2):
. With the entire A350 program "up in the air", its hard to say what will happen. When the new and improved model line-up and stats are available for the A350/370, US/HP, like other airlines, must redetermine if this is the aircraft that they want.

The new A350 may end up being a much larger plane, sized more like a 777 than an A330/767. This may be too large for US's needs: it may end up flying around with empty seats and loose a lot of money.

If I'm recalling the past correctly, US may have already converted A333 orders to A332, which would show a preference for a smaller aircraft. In any case, they now have 9 A333s on hand and have 10 A332s on order so the trend in the future is towards smaller wide-body aircraft.

Quoting Vega (Reply 21):
I can't believe how many times this has been discussed. US Airways must show that the 350's "performance" is inferior to the 787 in order to switch sides. How a schedule delay of say 2 years fits into the contract is a new issue. I'd bet Airbus will pull out a proposal to provide US with an interim Airbus solution. The only in-production equivalent aircraft (in range and size) that I'm aware of is the A340/200.

It seems amazing to me that US would sign up for a 767-sized aircraft, and then be forced to take a 777-sized aircraft, but stranger things have happened. On the other hand, I agree that relationship between A and US is cordial, and I'd be very suprised if something mutually agreeable is not worked out.
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american762
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Fri May 26, 2006 12:11 am

The answer is absolutely obvious. US Airways currently operates the A330, the A350 will contain roughly the same cockpit, and pilots accustomed to the Airbus Fly-By-Wire cockpit will be certified in just a few weeks of training.


One word. COMMONALITY
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EI321
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Fri May 26, 2006 12:24 am

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 24):
To me thats pathetic,

Thats business my friend. The money has already been repayed. 250m is roughly 8% of the value of the deal. Its fair to say that all big orders recieve discounts that are greater than 8%, and in this case the money was repayed.
Boeing and Airbus have both done deals like this before, eg 'Buy our a/c and we will buy the other sides aircraft that you currently have from you at a guarenteed price' etc etc
 
11Bravo
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Fri May 26, 2006 12:41 am

Quoting American762 (Reply 28):
One word. COMMONALITY

With all due respect, it's not that simple. Commonality is a consideration no doubt, but it is several notches down the priority list. As others have noted, the new A350 looks to be considerably larger than the one agreed to in this order. It is very questionable whether US needs an aircraft this large. Also, the EIS for the new A350 is two years later than the planned 2010 date for the existing order. Lastly, as someone else noted, there are performance guarantees included in this order that are a major consideration. All of those things are much more important than whatever degree of commonality may, or may not, exist between the A330 and A350.
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dutchjet
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Fri May 26, 2006 12:55 am

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 30):

With all due respect, it's not that simple. Commonality is a consideration no doubt, but it is several notches down the priority list. As others have noted, the new A350 looks to be considerably larger than the one agreed to in this order. It is very questionable whether US needs an aircraft this large. Also, the EIS for the new A350 is two years later than the planned 2010 date for the existing order. Lastly, as someone else noted, there are performance guarantees included in this order that are a major consideration. All of those things are much more important than whatever degree of commonality may, or may not, exist between the A330 and A350.

Good post - commonality is one of many factors.....and it tends to be overated, especially here at a.net.

US is not going to go for the supersized A350/370 offering......there have already been some comments from US that they are not interested in an aircraft that has more pax capacity than what was previously known as the A358.

The big question now is: how does Airbus keep its prior A358 customers happy with new and improved A350/370 which seems to be evolving more into a 772/773 competitor than a 787 competitor? We wont know the answer to that until more details concerning the updated A350 program become available.....but its now seems that the new Airbus airplane will compete with everything from the 787-8 to 773ER, is that even possible?
 
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Fri May 26, 2006 12:57 am

Quoting American762 (Reply 28):
One word. COMMONALITY

Disagreeable... US has a small fleet of 330. Only 9.. which can easily be replaced.. and no 350s right now.. which can easily be changed.. so the commonality rationale can go both ways..

If they had about 25-30 A330.. that would be a different story.. but 9! Not much of a commonality issue there..

Besides, with the 787, they could configure one aircraft (787-800) in a manner which would satisfy both aircraft (330 @ 226 seats and 350 @ 253 seats).. and THAT would be some serious commonality..
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11Bravo
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Fri May 26, 2006 1:20 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 31):
.....but its now seems that the new Airbus airplane will compete with everything from the 787-8 to 773ER, is that even possible?

In a word, no. It really stretches one's imagination to think that one aircraft could cover such a wide range of capabilities and remain efficient and competitive. Why has this not been done in the past? Why didn't Boeing do that with the B787? Why didn't Airbus, Boeing, and MD do that with their previous aircraft? What technological breakthrough has occurred in just the last year or so that would make this viable? I don't see it.

[Edited 2006-05-25 18:53:32]
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EI321
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Fri May 26, 2006 1:35 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 32):
US has a small fleet of 330. Only 9

They have more than that on order.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 31):
US is not going to go for the supersized A350/370 offering......there have already been some comments from US that they are not interested in an aircraft that has more pax capacity than what was previously known as the A358.

It seems to planned to keep the new fuselage aircraft around the same seating numbers as the current A350.

''The first two will be similar to the existing A350-800 and dash 900. The third will be dubbed the dash 1000 and will seat up to 350, putting it head-to-head with the 777-300ER.''

http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=4991
 
EI321
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Fri May 26, 2006 1:43 am

Quoting Vega (Reply 21):
How a schedule delay of say 2 years fits into the contract is a new issue.



Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 15):
they may not want to wait (as some of their 767s are getting very tired) and may opt for the 787.

The new A350 is to enter service in 2012. Only 3 airlines were due to recieve aircraft before 2012:
US (2011) I cant see it being much of a problem, they can hold onto A330s longer.
Air Europa (2010) they are unlikely to have a problem holding onto some of the A330s for an extra 2 years.
Qatar (2010) this is not signed though.
 
11Bravo
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Fri May 26, 2006 2:08 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 35):
The new A350 is to enter service in 2012.

From your own source listed above:

Quote:
The revamped design's entry into service now is supposed to slip into the second half of 2012, but insiders at Emirates told ATWOnline they are skeptical of that date.



Quoting EI321 (Reply 35):
Only 3 airlines were due to recieve aircraft before 2012

..., but the delay in EIS will delay all orders. It's not just the three airlines that had EIS dates of 2010-2011 that will be affected. Those aircraft will now slip to 2012-2013, but that means the previous orders for that time frame must be pushed back as well to 2014-2015, and so on.

We'll see how many of the orders for the old A350 get translated into orders for the new A350. It seems very likely to me that the two year EIS delay in combination with the changing specification will result in a number of cancellations.
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dutchjet
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Fri May 26, 2006 2:21 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 34):

It seems to planned to keep the new fuselage aircraft around the same seating numbers as the current A350.

''The first two will be similar to the existing A350-800 and dash 900. The third will be dubbed the dash 1000 and will seat up to 350, putting it head-to-head with the 777-300ER.''

http://www.atwonline.com/news/story....=4991

This is not yet confirmed........there are also reports that all members of the new and improved A350 family will take the larger fuselage. Simple answer is that we just dont know yet. And we also do not know the exact sizes of the variants of the new A350 family.....Airbus probably does not know that either just yet.

The thing is we do not know much about the new A350/370....its mostly guesses and sepcualtion.
 
manni
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Fri May 26, 2006 7:26 am

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 36):
but the delay in EIS will delay all orders. It's not just the three airlines that had EIS dates of 2010-2011 that will be affected. Those aircraft will now slip to 2012-2013, but that means the previous orders for that time frame must be pushed back as well to 2014-2015, and so on.

No. Contrary to Boeing and the 787, Airbus has sold very few production slots for the first 2 years after commercial launch. To be exact, 10 to Air Europa and 20 to US Airways, who did not intend to take delivery of all aircraft in the first 2 years. The remaining firm orders, 70, are due to be delivered from 2012 AND beyond. Depending on the capacity, Airbus should not have any problem to fit all existing orders for delivery in 2011 and 2010 into 2012. Moreover, they could start building some A350's in 2011, and park them, while waiting for certification. Just like Boeing intends to do with the 787.
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EI321
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Fri May 26, 2006 7:52 am

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 36):
We'll see how many of the orders for the old A350 get translated into orders for the new A350. It seems very likely to me that the two year EIS delay in combination with the changing specification will result in a number of cancellations.

What viable alternatives do they have that will be availible before 2012? Bearing in mind that many already operate A330s. The 787 is sold out through 2011
 
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Fri May 26, 2006 7:53 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 38):
Airbus has sold very few production slots for the first 2 years after commercial launch.

I think we all know those other, unsold, early slots were (are?) mostly for QR. If QR doesn't place an order for the new A350, you're point is probably valid. If they do, other orders will get pushed back.

I also suspect that some of those early slots were held for unannounced customers (SQ, LH, EK). If those airlines don't want the slots, then some of the other existing firm order holders could probably move down to them. Then again, if SQ, LH, and EK balk at the new A350, Airbus will have bigger problems to worry about than what to do with the existing firm orders.
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gigneil
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Fri May 26, 2006 8:15 am

Quoting Centrair (Reply 22):
They ordered something like 39 A350s. That is a huge boost in capacity!

They ordered 20 and will have 19 A330s.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 27):
It seems amazing to me that US would sign up for a 767-sized aircraft, and then be forced to take a 777-sized aircraft,

The A350-800 is not the size of a 767.

N
 
ouboy79
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Fri May 26, 2006 9:46 am

Just one other correction, sort of, to the Airbus loan. US only took around $170 million of the $250 million. Again, as stated, paid it off...but have stated they are still obligated to the A350.
 
A330323X
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Fri May 26, 2006 2:21 pm

Quoting Centrair (Reply 22):
They ordered something like 39 A350s. That is a huge boost in capacity!

Only if 20 can be considered something like 39.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 27):
If I'm recalling the past correctly, US may have already converted A333 orders to A332, which would show a preference for a smaller aircraft.

You're not. US converted orders for 1x A330-300 and 18x A32X into the order for 10x A330-200.
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manni
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Fri May 26, 2006 2:47 pm

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 40):
I think we all know those other, unsold, early slots were (are?) mostly for QR.

Yes, but we dont know how many they want in 2010 and 2011. QR announced that they might purchase 60 A350's, starting delivery from 2010. I seriously doubt that they want them all within 2 years, even for QR that seems just to much. My point remains valid, I guess.

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 40):
I also suspect that some of those early slots were held for unannounced customers (SQ, LH, EK).

I suspect that Airbus would have sold any slot to any customer, no matter how insignificant they may look to you. A possible order (which makes them possible customers, not unannounced customers) from the airlines you mentioned, wont be enough to tell other customers to wait at the back of the que.

Question (to whoever is able to give a correct answer),

Airbus has currently the capacity to produce 8 widebodys a month (96 a year), not including the A380. Will the A350 be part of these 8 widebodies or will there be an increase in their widebody output once they start producing them? The 30 firm A350's are less than 3 months worth of production anyhow. How many A330/340 has Airbus in the ordebook to be delivered from 2012 onwards?

Airbus has customers for 57 A350's in the orderbook starting delivery FROM 2012. The remaining 13 (TAP and Eurofly) wil start taking delivery FROM 2013.
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Joni
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Fri May 26, 2006 4:11 pm

Quoting Scoljet (Thread starter):
However why did US not even consider the 787?

How do you know they didn't consider the 787?
 
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Fri May 26, 2006 10:42 pm

Quoting Joni (Reply 45):
How do you know they didn't consider the 787?

They could be. How 'bout this scenario: US cancels the A332 and A350 orders, buys 20 new-build 763ERs from Boeing for delivery in 2006-07 in an agreement similar to deals in the past whereby Boeing buys the 9 current US 333s, US orders 20 to 25 787s for delivery in 2013 or 2014, uses the 763ERs until the 787s arrive and then either US continues to fly the 763s or Boeing takes them back for freighter conversion. Also add in some Boeing financing and the much-needed boast in 767 production until the whole tanker issue is resolved with the USAF. This would bring US back into the Boeing fold and give US the widebody lift they need now for international expansion. Ideally US would take 20 new-build 762ERs to match both what they currently fly and also their capacity needs, but the 763s would be the only option Boeing would allow in this deal due to the freighter conversion down the road.

[Edited 2006-05-26 15:44:25]
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Joni
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Fri May 26, 2006 11:35 pm

Quoting KYAir (Reply 46):
They could be. How 'bout this scenario: US cancels the A332 and A350 orders, buys 20 new-build 763ERs from

Umm, then why did they order the A350s?? I don't quite follow your logic here.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Fri May 26, 2006 11:42 pm

Quoting KYAir (Reply 46):

They could be. How 'bout this scenario: US cancels the A332 and A350 orders, buys 20 new-build 763ERs from Boeing for delivery in 2006-07 in an agreement similar to deals in the past whereby Boeing buys the 9 current US 333s, US orders 20 to 25 787s for delivery in 2013 or 2014, uses the 763ERs until the 787s arrive and then either US continues to fly the 763s or Boeing takes them back for freighter conversion. Also add in some Boeing financing and the much-needed boast in 767 production until the whole tanker issue is resolved with the USAF. This would bring US back into the Boeing fold and give US the widebody lift they need now for international expansion. Ideally US would take 20 new-build 762ERs to match both what they currently fly and also their capacity needs, but the 763s would be the only option Boeing would allow in this deal due to the freighter conversion down the road.

[Edited 2006-05-26 15:44:25]

I would not hold my breathe waiting for this proposed deal to happen...........
 
kyair
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RE: Why US Airways Ordered A350?

Sat May 27, 2006 1:23 am

Quoting Joni (Reply 47):
Umm, then why did they order the A350s?? I don't quite follow your logic here.



Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 48):
I would not hold my breathe waiting for this proposed deal to happen...........

Presumably they ordered the 350 due to the exit financing provided by Airbus, but since they have now paid off that loan perhaps they will now consider the 787. I just threw out the scenario above as a possible solution to many issues: getting US some immediate widebody lift, getting some 767 orders for Boeing in the short term, possibily starting yet another A vs. B war, etc.  duck 

I'm certainly not holding my breath waiting for this to happen, but it's fun to specualte - especially with other people's money. It's why I'm in banking.  bigthumbsup 
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