LipeGIG
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Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Thu May 25, 2006 7:12 am

Brazilian press reported this late afternoon that one of the best RG aircrafts, a 777-200ER under registration PP-VRE (this A/C was grounded at UA facilities in JFK for more than a month with only one PW engine) has been seized by it's lessor due to unpaid lease installments.

The fact is that more probably will come (including it's "brother" PP-VRF grounded at GIG), also from other lessors.

Seems that lessors are really upset with RG regular delays and also, that the NY judge that helped so much RG could now believe the company situation is worst.

Anyone knows who is the owner of this A/C ? Possible new customers ?

Bad news to RG.

Felipe

Edit: Changed title from "Arrested" to "Sized". Thanks to A.Net friend Adriaticus and sorry for my bad english.

[Edited 2006-05-25 00:31:06]
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
MYT332
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RE: Varig 777 Arrested At JFK (PP-VRE)

Thu May 25, 2006 7:16 am

Will it be taken downtown and questioned?
One Life, Live it.
 
adriaticus
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RE: Varig 777 Arrested At JFK (PP-VRE)

Thu May 25, 2006 7:18 am

Felipe, I believe the word you're looking for is "sequestered", or "seized". Only a person, an individual, can be arrested.

Bad news for RG. As we say in my country, "It rains over soaked land".

Isn't VRE owned by ILFC?

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Bicoastal
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RE: Varig 777 Arrested At JFK (PP-VRE)

Thu May 25, 2006 7:22 am

Well now we know where UA found a 777 for its new Kuwait City service!!  Yeah sure
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
ILOVEA340
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RE: Varig 777 Arrested At JFK (PP-VRE)

Thu May 25, 2006 7:23 am

Quoting Adriaticus (Reply 2):
Only a person, an individual, can be arrested

Now in it's true definition an aircraft could be arrested as well but this would be done by way of a arrestor cable  Wink
 
dutchjet
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RE: Varig 777 Arrested At JFK (PP-VRE)

Thu May 25, 2006 7:25 am

What a shame, this could be the beginning of the end for VARIG, one of the great names in aviation history.

If a lessor made a move against one aircraft, it (and other lessors) will begin taking action against other aircraft to protect their assests. Is there any hope that VARIG can get additional financing to pay its past debts pending the auction of the airline, as described in another thread?
 
Newark777
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RE: Varig 777 Arrested At JFK (PP-VRE)

Thu May 25, 2006 7:27 am

Quoting ILOVEA340 (Reply 4):
Now in it's true definition an aircraft could be arrested as well but this would be done by way of a arrestor cable

Or an arrestor bed, which JFK has had some incidents with.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Thu May 25, 2006 7:34 am

Quoting Adriaticus (Reply 2):
Isn't VRE owned by ILFC?

777 owned by ILFC are PP-VRA and PP-VRB, both received by Varig directly from Boeing.

Quoting Adriaticus (Reply 2):
Felipe, I believe the word you're looking for is "sequestered", or "seized". Only a person, an individual, can be arrested.

Sorry for my mistake, and thanks for the correction.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 5):
Is there any hope that VARIG can get additional financing to pay its past debts pending the auction of the airline, as described in another thread?

The problem is the lack of time. It takes at least 45 days to the auction, and up to that moment, RG cash flow is not enough to pay lessors.

Felipe

[Edited 2006-05-25 00:46:28]
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
dutchjet
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Thu May 25, 2006 7:37 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
Sorry for my mistake, and thanks for the correction.

If only all of us here could write and understand Portugese as well as you write and understand English...........

In any case, another sad day for VARIG.
 
cbphoto
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Thu May 25, 2006 7:52 am

How exactly does a company go about seizing an aircraft of that size??? Are the police envolved, do they tow the aircraft to a remote stand, to they alert the crew that is taking the return flight? From what I understand, on the smaller planes, a person (pilot) from the company actually take the airplane and fly it to another location. Hope Varig can figure out something quick. It would be very sad to see them go!
Thanks
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wjcandee
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Thu May 25, 2006 7:57 am

Quoting CBPhoto (Reply 9):
How exactly does a company go about seizing an aircraft of that size??? Are the police envolved, do they tow the aircraft to a remote stand, to they alert the crew that is taking the return flight?

As a very general, non-legal explanation, the Sheriff or Constable serves legal papers on whomever, and takes official possession of the aircraft. Any efforts by anyone to interfere with the Sheriff's possession can be prosecuted as a criminal matter.
 
Bicoastal
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Thu May 25, 2006 8:01 am

What a cool job to be an aircraft Repo-Man!!!

Seeing how this aircraft has only one engine....which is why it has been at JFK so long, it's not being flown out anytime soon. Likely they just need to show the JFK airport authorities who has legal ownership, install another engine, pay any past due bills at JFK and away it flies to the home of the new lessee.
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
teixeim
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Thu May 25, 2006 7:34 pm

I hope to someday read a complete explanation of Varig's downfall identifying the responsible parties. With Delta, we know one of the responsible parties was Mullin, for example. Amazing how respected and successful companies can fall so far so quickly.
 
deaphen
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Thu May 25, 2006 8:59 pm

anyone care to post a picture of the aircraft?
I want every single airport and airplane in India to be on A.net!
 
su
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Thu May 25, 2006 8:59 pm

My flight in a couple of weeks from GRU to LHR and then to CPH was replaced from MD11 to 777. Hot happy about the change as was hoping to get on MD11 for a long time now. How Many 777s does Varig still have that are operational and why did they switched from MD11 to 777?
"Life is too short to take it serious..."
 
latinaviation
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Thu May 25, 2006 9:17 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
Brazilian press reported this late afternoon that one of the best RG aircrafts, a 777-200ER under registration PP-VRE (this A/C was grounded at UA facilities in JFK for more than a month with only one PW engine) has been seized by it's lessor due to unpaid lease installments.

I just checked the US Bankruptcy Court docket on this and I could not find a motion to allow the aircraft to be seized. There was a court hearing yesterday, but the judge affirmed his ruling that lessors could not seize RG's aircraft. Of course, the leasing companies all filed complaints to this motion and there is another hearing next week, so more news may develop in the interim.
 
AF022
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Thu May 25, 2006 9:27 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
Brazilian press reported this late afternoon that one of the best RG aircrafts, a 777-200ER under registration PP-VRE (this A/C was grounded at UA facilities in JFK for more than a month with only one PW engine) has been seized by it's lessor due to unpaid lease installments.

Who is the lessor?
 
Door5Right
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Thu May 25, 2006 9:35 pm

Quoting Myt332 (Reply 1):
Will it be taken downtown and questioned?

LOL - that did make me laugh, Mr. Myt332!
My soul is in the sky...
 
KJFK31L
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Thu May 25, 2006 9:38 pm

Quoting Myt332 (Reply 1):
Will it be taken downtown and questioned?

The aircraft is currently boarding the subway, heading to downtown Manhattan. This will be an "open-air" trial. Permanent wheel chocks have been installed in lieu of cuffs.

In all seriousness, this is an unfortunate situation. Why not wait till the aircraft had landed at a more convenient scheduled destination to seize it. It seems that a confiscation at JFK--so far from company headquarters--would be a large headache for Varig administrators.

Matt
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Thu May 25, 2006 9:42 pm

Look for a special episodes of CSI:NY concerning this event.....or will it be Law and Order: Special Airplanes Unit?
 
krisyyz
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Thu May 25, 2006 9:56 pm

Isn't RG running out of long-haul aircraft? This isn't the first time RG had a aircraft seized. If RG knows that they can't pay the lease payment why not just return them, why go through the humiliation of having an aircraft seized?

KrisYYZ
 
DC10Forever
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Thu May 25, 2006 9:59 pm

The correct word for this case is "repossession". The lessor can take possession of the aircraft in case of default of the lease agreement.
Better one flying than two grounded
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Thu May 25, 2006 10:06 pm

Quoting Teixeim (Reply 12):
I hope to someday read a complete explanation of Varig's downfall identifying the responsible parties. With Delta, we know one of the responsible parties was Mullin, for example. Amazing how respected and successful companies can fall so far so quickly.

Me too, at Varig we have FRB and all their management (RG main shareholder). RG use to be one of the best airlines with a huge cash flow, now it's a shame.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
Leskova
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Thu May 25, 2006 10:09 pm

Quoting KJFK31L (Reply 18):
Why not wait till the aircraft had landed at a more convenient scheduled destination to seize it. It seems that a confiscation at JFK--so far from company headquarters--would be a large headache for Varig administrators.

While I don't know the actual legal background and reasoning, I'll just say this - it'll have to do with two factors: first of all, the plane can probably best be reposessed within the US, so JFK is as good as any other US destination that RG flies to.

And the location of RG's HQ isn't of interest to the reposessing party - they're interested in protecting their assets - and, I'm guessing that the lessor is a US based company, that's something that's best done through a US court.

It isn't their job to make life easier for RG - since RG hasn't done much to make theirs any easier... if RG had, in other words if RG had made the contractually agreed payments, it would not have come to this.

Hope that clears it up a bit.

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Thu May 25, 2006 10:23 pm

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 20):
Isn't RG running out of long-haul aircraft? This isn't the first time RG had a aircraft seized. If RG knows that they can't pay the lease payment why not just return them, why go through the humiliation of having an aircraft seized?

Yes, and next month they need to return one more M11 (PP-VTH) due to the end of the lease agreement (that's why they drop LIS recently).
I agree with you and in this particular case, it seems even positive to return a grounded plane (why not 1 or 2 years wet lease ?) and avoid one more lease monthly expense that couldn't generate revenue.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Thu May 25, 2006 10:33 pm

The big question right now is that if Varig (RG) goes out of business can TAM take up the slack for a Brazilian-based intercontinental airline?  Confused
 
SFORunner
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Thu May 25, 2006 10:37 pm

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 10):
Quoting CBPhoto (Reply 9):
How exactly does a company go about seizing an aircraft of that size??? Are the police envolved, do they tow the aircraft to a remote stand, to they alert the crew that is taking the return flight?

As a very general, non-legal explanation, the Sheriff or Constable serves legal papers on whomever, and takes official possession of the aircraft. Any efforts by anyone to interfere with the Sheriff's possession can be prosecuted as a criminal matter.

As this is NY, two rather large men in a white van pulled up to the 777, used baseball bats to break the front landing gear, and threatened to break the other two gear if Varig didn't pay up.
 
SafetyDude
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Thu May 25, 2006 10:49 pm

Quoting Deaphen (Reply 13):
anyone care to post a picture of the aircraft?

Here's a picture I took in March. I couldn't get a shot with the engines. Sorry for the low quality, but it was hard to take a decent pic.

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
krisyyz
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Thu May 25, 2006 11:07 pm

What a shame!!!

I hate to see a great T7 just sitting on the ground collecting dust when it could be making some airline proud. Not to mention RG, it used to be a great airline. It has(had) a great fleet of MD11-B777s, I really hope RG can find some way of turning around this unfortunate tide.

KrisYYZ
 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Thu May 25, 2006 11:20 pm

When I was doing consulting work for Air Afrique in Abidjan in February 2001, one of their A300s was seized/repo'd at CDG. I thought I had heard, but don't know if it was true, that they put some big repo sticker on the side of the plane. Maybe we wondered it out loud enough, as in the exchange above about the 777 being taken downtown for questioning, that we started to treat it as the truth.

Does anyone know if there is anything put on the outside of the plane that indicates it has been seized?
 
ChiGB1973
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Thu May 25, 2006 11:22 pm

Quoting Adriaticus (Reply 2):
Felipe, I believe the word you're looking for is "sequestered", or "seized". Only a person, an individual, can be arrested

ar·rest ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-rst)
v. ar·rest·ed, ar·rest·ing, ar·rests
v. tr.
To stop; check: a brake that automatically arrests motion; arrested the growth of the tumor.
To seize and hold under the authority of law.
To capture and hold briefly (the attention, for example); engage.

Not only "a person."

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=arrested

Doesn't sound like it's a bad thing for RG. If they cannot pay for it, they don't need the burden. It's the lease company that really has the problem.

I do wonder about the engine. I am sure UA still has pretty close ties with the leasing company. Think it is already on a UA plane?

I think DL needed some 777 wheels for their 764. If the leasing company plays their cards right, it will be a hull in a few weeks.

M
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Thu May 25, 2006 11:33 pm

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 11):
What a cool job to be an aircraft Repo-Man!!!

Yeah! I mean, like do you get the keys??

 bigthumbsup 
One Nation Under God
 
cloud4000
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Fri May 26, 2006 12:38 am

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 3):
Well now we know where UA found a 777 for its new Kuwait City service!!

Aside from the fact that UA has few of them out in the desert.  laughing 
Boston, USA
 
777wt
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Fri May 26, 2006 1:13 am

Quoting Cloud4000 (Reply 32):
Aside from the fact that UA has few of them out in the desert.

I don't think they're in the desert anymore, the lessors found new owners for it.
 
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TR763
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Fri May 26, 2006 1:15 am

Hey Lipe!

According to jetsite.com.br, the lessor is US Bank NA, which is represented by a juridical company called Bristol Associates, who realized the seize in the presence of the judge.
In the site is written that the seize cannot be reverted!! But they don't explain why.

Bad, bad news!

Abraço!
TR763
Image
Picture by Justin Cederholm at MCO.
 
CO7e7
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Fri May 26, 2006 1:17 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
Possible new customers ?

What about LY ?? Weren't they looking for extra jets ?
 
Alitalia744
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Fri May 26, 2006 1:29 am

the bird is sitting by the AA mx hangars at JFK as of this morning.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Fri May 26, 2006 1:31 am

Quoting KJFK31L (Reply 18):
Why not wait till the aircraft had landed at a more convenient scheduled destination to seize it. It seems that a confiscation at JFK--so far from company headquarters--would be a large headache for Varig administrators.

I believe it says somewhere that the aircraft has been lying around with only one engine for more than a month.......
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Fri May 26, 2006 2:03 am

Quoting TR763 (Reply 34):
According to jetsite.com.br, the lessor is US Bank NA, which is represented by a juridical company called Bristol Associates, who realized the seize in the presence of the judge.
In the site is written that the seize cannot be reverted!! But they don't explain why.

Thanks TR763, i believe the lessor explained to the lessor that Varig is not in condition to obtain the missing engine and a grounded plane is not helpfull for the efforts to keep RG flying. RG is under protection from NY court till May, 30.

Quoting 777WT (Reply 33):
I don't think they're in the desert anymore, the lessors found new owners for it.

I believe the last one was a 777-200 nowadays under Air India colors

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
kaddyuk
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Fri May 26, 2006 2:56 am

Quoting Door5Right (Reply 17):
that did make me laugh, Mr. Myt332!

We laugh at Alex ALL the time...
Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
 
BMIFlyer
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Fri May 26, 2006 3:00 am

Quoting Myt332 (Reply 1):
Will it be taken downtown and questioned?

Like your style  Wink

Quoting SafetyDude (Reply 27):

One sweet lookin 777 there Big grin



Lee
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
JAGflyer
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Fri May 26, 2006 3:21 am

When I grow up I want to be an airplane repo man!

heh  jet  such a cool job.
Support the beer and soda can industry, your recycle old airplanes!
 
drinkstrolley
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Fri May 26, 2006 3:58 am

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 30):
ar·rest ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-rst)
v. ar·rest·ed, ar·rest·ing, ar·rests
v. tr.
To stop; check: a brake that automatically arrests motion; arrested the growth of the tumor.
To seize and hold under the authority of law.
To capture and hold briefly (the attention, for example); engage.

Can everyone please shut up about correcting his English, it has been corrected by the A.Net Crew Member and has f*** all to do with the 777 in question.
 banghead 
 
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LTU932
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Fri May 26, 2006 5:45 am

Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 35):
What about LY ?? Weren't they looking for extra jets ?

LY operates Trent powered 777s. RG operates a mixed fleet of -200ERs and -200As with GE90s and PW4000s. And VRE is powered with PW4000s. It wouldn't make sense for LY to operate an orphan PW or GE powered 777 from RG.
 
amax1977
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Fri May 26, 2006 6:39 am

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 3):
Well now we know where UA found a 777 for its new Kuwait City service!!

UA goes to Kuwait?!!!
 
Tbird
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Fri May 26, 2006 7:38 am

***Deleted by user***

[Edited 2006-05-26 00:44:02]
 
ChiGB1973
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Fri May 26, 2006 8:23 am

 
kanebear
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Fri May 26, 2006 11:30 am

Given that the A/C was sitting on the tarmac for over a month due to lack of funds to repair it I don't view this as a bad thing at all. RG is no longer racking up costs on an airframe they can't afford to fix and that isn't generating revenue. Sad to see it go but probably best for RG.
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Fri May 26, 2006 9:49 pm

Some additional info:

- Lease payment delayed: 2 months = US$ 1,8 million
- Days elapsed since RG returned the PW engine to the lessor: 43 days
- Average monthly revenue on RG GRU-FRA* / GRU-EZE* service (expected):
US$ 6,000,000.00 (Pax) , no info on cargo.

* routes where PP-VRE were used, systemwide GRU-FRA is ranked 2nd most profitable RG route.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Varig 777 Seized At JFK (PP-VRE)

Fri May 26, 2006 9:57 pm

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 37):
I believe it says somewhere that the aircraft has been lying around with only one engine for more than a month.......

Perhpas it will be used as a single engine out ETOPS test bed airframe
 Wow!
One Nation Under God

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