VORFMD
Topic Author
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Austrians US Plans

Thu May 25, 2006 7:16 am

Well, I don´t know where they will take the A/C´s but today an OS Manager announced that OS plans to increase their JFK Flights to double daily, year around AND will serve ORD as well ( daily ).

All of that should happen by 2007.

This is not just a rumour but printed on todays "KURIER", one of the biggest Austrian Newspapers..

Could that mean that UA will take the IAD-VIE Route ?
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Austrians US Plans

Thu May 25, 2006 7:46 am

ORD makes sense. Huge Star hub, decent O&D. They won't have as much of a slam-dunk with it as LO or LH does, but with a little marketing, they should do well. Of course, this will probably reduce loads some at IAD. I don't know where the majority of UA-OS connections at IAD come from, but I have to believe that at least some come from markets where connections over ORD are more convenient.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
md90fan
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RE: Austrians US Plans

Thu May 25, 2006 11:57 am

IMO The "Focus East" strategy in full swing. Last I heard OS's loads werent as good as most of the other EU Transatlantic gang(LH,AF,KL,BA.VS) and that they had pretty steep fares.  frown 

What other things are going on with OS? Any other new routes?

Cheers  Smile
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The777Man
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RE: Austrians US Plans

Thu May 25, 2006 2:36 pm

They still plan to fly the 777 to IAD starting 25Mar07 ?

The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
goodmanr
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RE: Austrians US Plans

Thu May 25, 2006 4:05 pm

I've flown the 330 VIE-IAD a few times and I do like the product. Good service, good food and VIE isn't a bad place to transfer. OS offers excellent access to eastern/central europe via VIE, something you don't always get at FRA etc..
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airbazar
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RE: Austrians US Plans

Fri May 26, 2006 3:31 am

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 2):
IMO The "Focus East" strategy in full swing. Last I heard OS's loads werent as good as most of the other EU Transatlantic gang(LH,AF,KL,BA.VS) and that they had pretty steep fares.

It's a tought market for OS to be in because Munich is so close to other large cities in Austria. This makes Vienna practically the only large city for OS to operate from, to the US. If you live in either Salzburg or Innesbruck, you're better off driving to MUC and catching a non-stop (and cheaper) flight to the US.
 
dj1986
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RE: Austrians US Plans

Fri May 26, 2006 3:55 am

OS/NG were flying VIE-MUC-MIA until the end of 2001. I know that in the winter schedule LH was operating MUC-MIA for 2 years or so. Maybe it would make sense to restart that route from VIE via MUC as it appears that no city alone as enough traffic. Does somebody know how the route was performing for OS before 2001?
US Airways I miss you!
 
dean
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RE: Austrians US Plans

Fri May 26, 2006 4:18 am

Quoting VORFMD (Thread starter):
OS plans to increase their JFK Flights to double daily

Wow, that's a kind of surprise. I read that OS really often downgrades the IAD, JFK flights from a 332 to a 763 due to low load factor. I think the second daily service would be based on the business customers...
 
CRGsFuture
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RE: Austrians US Plans

Fri May 26, 2006 4:32 am

If OS go double daily at JFK will we one of there 343's or 332's?
Flying you to your destination; your girlfriend to her dreams.
 
connector4you
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RE: Austrians US Plans

Fri May 26, 2006 5:20 am

Chicago could be a hit due to its fairly large East-European community. Certainily Seattle, WA could be another hot spot to be considered since no other airline currently serves the West Coast to Estern-Europe. A three weekly summer runs with an A340 should be the perfect fit for a tryout.
 
johnnybgoode
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RE: Austrians US Plans

Fri May 26, 2006 5:31 am

Quoting VORFMD (Thread starter):
Could that mean that UA will take the IAD-VIE Route ?

zero chance. in a recent interview by a German aviation magazine, UA's CEO confirmed that although VIE has already appeared on the UA's radar, there would be tons of other destinations which are more attractive and would see new service first.
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Austrians US Plans

Fri May 26, 2006 5:33 am

CO’s talk of wanting to start service to VIE might have something to do with OS’s moves.

Not sure what if anything OS is doing at their hub but I would guess they could support much more transatlantic service than they are currently flying. Eastern Europe is growing substantially and OS should be in a position to tap into it.

I’ll be in Austria in a week. Lovely place.
 
Qazar
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RE: Austrians US Plans

Fri May 26, 2006 10:45 am

What are the other cities served by OS in the US?
 
OSA330
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RE: Austrians US Plans

Fri May 26, 2006 3:56 pm

Quoting Johnnybgoode (Reply 10):
UA's CEO confirmed that although VIE has already appeared on the UA's radar, there would be tons of other destinations which are more attractive and would see new service first.

Why is that? Vienna is a large city with 1.6 million residents, if including a greater region it rises up to 3-5 million people. Vienna is one of the wealthiest regions in Europe, and there is no real competition existent in regard to USA flights. All passengers need to travel via other international hubs (mainly MUC and FRA). I cannot believe that there are so many other destinations, which should be served earlier because of their better attractiveness.

I assume that the decisions and opinions made mainly depend on aviation/alliance politics and strategy. For instance, MUC has/had destinations in the US, which were served twice a day (e.g. ORD). So why that? Has the (wonderful) city of Munich so heavy demand on flights to the windy city? No, most passengers start their journey elsewhere, and use MUC/FRA as a transfer point. Those passengers could also fly via Vienna to the US/Canada.
Vienna has no flights to Chicago, MUC has/had two ones. Fair? I know that fairness is not a convincing fact, reality is often not fair!

So, who benefits from that? Lufthansa, because they can fill their European and Near-Middle East flights successfully. Is that the aim of an alliance?
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Austrians US Plans

Fri May 26, 2006 4:24 pm

Quoting OSA330 (Reply 13):
So, who benefits from that? Lufthansa, because they can fill their European and Near-Middle East flights successfully. Is that the aim of an alliance?

Unfortunately for Austrian, that is the regimen they have to abide by with Lufthansa both a neighbor and part of the same alliance. Tough luck for OS, and is it somewhat ironic that OS left the Qualiflyer Group because they felt they were bullied by Swissair -which they probably were- only to find themselves in a very similar situation now, being bullied by an even larger 'partner'.

As for the double daily JFK service, if memory serves me right, OS already operated double daily into JFK during the summer schedule in the days of the Qualiflyer Group. I am furthermore surprised that YUL has gone off the OS network. And what has happened to OS's plans for a return to JNB? Also frustrated by the Luftwaffe?
 
VORFMD
Topic Author
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RE: Austrians US Plans

Fri May 26, 2006 6:21 pm

Quoting Johnnybgoode (Reply 10):
zero chance. in a recent interview by a German aviation magazine, UA's CEO confirmed that although VIE has already appeared on the UA's radar, there would be tons of other destinations which are more attractive and would see new service first.

This was for the ORD-VIE Route. I asked this because UA was in negotiations with OS to take over the IAD-VIE Flight from OS and OS should start VIE-ORD Flights. OS at that time was not willing doing this.

OS does not have the A/C�s to operate a second daily JFK Flight AND a new VIE-ORD Flight beside of their daily IAD Flight. Apart from that they sold their 2 A342 and will only get one B772ER, so that means their Longhaulfleet has one A/C less.

So thats why i am thinking that there is maybe a good chance that UA takes the IAD-VIE Flights if OS goes to ORD.

Quoting Dean (Reply 7):
Wow, that's a kind of surprise. I read that OS really often downgrades the IAD, JFK flights from a 332 to a 763 due to low load factor. I think the second daily service would be based on the business customers...

As far as I know OS has excellent load Factors on their US Flights. If not I think they are not talking before about ugrading VIE-IAD to a B772.

@OSA330

This is what I am thinking as well. A lot of Companies have their Eastern Europe Headquarters in Vienna, the Catchment Area of VIE is about 8 Mio. People ( incl.Vienna itself, the surroundings of VIE, Slovakia, Parts of Hungary and the Czech Republic, Lower Austria and Parts of Styria and Slovenia ). Apart from that there are a lot of Organziations having their Headquarters in Vienna, like OPEC, OSZE, IAEA, UNIDO and is one of the three UN Cities.

So there should be more Potential for direct US Flights esp. as Vienna welcomes nearly 600.000 US Tourists every year too.
 
VORFMD
Topic Author
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RE: Austrians US Plans

Fri May 26, 2006 6:24 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 14):
And what has happened to OS's plans for a return to JNB? Also frustrated by the Luftwaffe

OS wants SAA on the Route JNB-VIE, but i don�t think that this will happen soon.
 
OSA330
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RE: Austrians US Plans

Fri May 26, 2006 7:12 pm

Quoting Dean (Reply 7):
Wow, that's a kind of surprise. I read that OS really often downgrades the IAD, JFK flights from a 332 to a 763 due to low load factor. I think the second daily service would be based on the business customers...

Why is a change from A332 to B763 a downgrade?

A330-200 has 259 seats
B767-300 has 258 seats

First of all, at peak times OS will serve JFK 12 times a week, not twice daily.

OS wouldn't provide a second flight to New York if there weren't any demand. I believe that the 2nd flight will rather attract leisure travellers and ethnic travellers. Due to the size of OS, traffic flow is only semi-optimal. Many Eastern European connections, which are served only once a day, arrive in the late afternoon, when the morning US flights have already departed. The second flight scheduled for the late afternoon perfectly fits into the East-West concept, and enables comfortable transfers between those regions.
Even the Toronto flights are partly relocated into the late afternoon, because of the same reasons.
 
The777Man
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RE: Austrians US Plans

Fri May 26, 2006 11:08 pm

Have all the 763s been transferred from NG to OS ? That's the replacement aicraft for the 342s...OS will actually gain widebody aircraft rather than lose one. Of course, they will give up some long haul charters for this.

Still hoping that OS will fly the 777 to the US next year....

The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
OSA330
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RE: Austrians US Plans

Sat May 27, 2006 2:21 am

I don't exactly know how many widebodies have been transferred to Austrian Airlines. I assume almost all have already gone, therefore the fleet has already reached its new and final configuration for a longer time. OS will have sold two A340-200 after the following summer, which means a reduction of approximately 550 seats. Osaka and Montreal were kicked off the schedule. Meanwhile, a new B777-200 has been ordered, which is due to arrive in January 2007. After the inauguration of the brand new 777 OS will still suffer on a shortage of seats, but this is part of a renewal process.

Recently there were rumours about the acquisition of a further 777 (#5) to conduct the expansion, which is basically logical, because OS has actually decreased the longhaul capacity. A fifth 777 is thus imperative to cope with the global competition.

[Edited 2006-05-26 19:23:12]
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Austrians US Plans

Sat May 27, 2006 3:45 am

Quoting OSA330 (Reply 19):
Osaka and Montreal were kicked off the schedule.

Why were those 2 destinations dropped? Montreal is Air Canada's home base, so a flight there would make somewhat sense (note that even YYZ operations are not daily), or was OS forced to drop YUL because of fear of overcapacity with LH operating YUL from MUC and LX having a daily ZRH YUL rotation?

KIX is an even bigger surprise as OS was said to be doing good business there. A year or two ago OS even announced that it was looking to grow the KIX operation to daily for the summer season with a reduced frequency during winter.

I would imagine that a lot of the network decisions are not so much a function of the availability of aircraft to operate the schedule as they are driven by Alliance (read: Lufthansa) directives.
 
misbeehavin
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RE: Austrians US Plans

Sat May 27, 2006 6:22 am

Quoting OSA330 (Reply 13):
Why is that? Vienna is a large city with 1.6 million residents, if including a greater region it rises up to 3-5 million people. Vienna is one of the wealthiest regions in Europe, and there is no real competition existent in regard to USA flights.

I've often wondered that myself. Vienna seems to be the most ignored of the more important European cities. There's WAW and PRG, but they're "Eastern" Europe so there are slightly different dynamics in play. And HEL, but Finland's got to be a miniscule market in comparision.

You have American and Asian and even African airlines flying to all sorts of smaller cities across Europe - VIE's always stood out as a glaring exception for a long time - other than a couple of Middle Eastern cariers, why does no one else want to fly there?


Also, didn't OS used to fly VIE-ORD? I think back in 1997 when I moved to Bratislava for a little while that I had the option of ORD-VIE on OS or ORD-ZRH-BTS on SR. (I ended up going ORD-LHR-VIE on BA, but that's another story).
 
BigSky123
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RE: Austrians US Plans

Sat May 27, 2006 6:50 am

According to OS Slovenia manager, KIX was dropped by OS, due to low load factor. They were only reaching satisfactory loads on KIX-VIE segments, not the vice versa. Doesn't make sence to me...
 
connector4you
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RE: Austrians US Plans

Sat May 27, 2006 12:46 pm

Quoting Misbeehavin (Reply 21):
I've often wondered that myself. Vienna seems to be the most ignored of the more important European cities

Very true, but I think that's going to change in the near future. Vienna invested seriously on its airport infrastructure and will contimue to do so. AUA is currently building-up a massive East-European network of destinations out of its Vienna hub. Other than Malev perhaps - heavily supported these days by its One World partners - nobody can come even closer to AUA's variety of Balkan destinations. All AUA needs to do now is to fine-tune its ontime performance, open new long-haul destinations and carefully monitor a flowless connection process trough Vienna. The Balkans are a considerable niche-market comprised of a dense infrastructure of small/medium-size airports who badly lacks a point of convergence. Wheter or not Vienna is going to play that role remain to be seen but I think AUA already put a foot in the door.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Austrians US Plans

Sat May 27, 2006 12:56 pm

Quoting Misbeehavin (Reply 21):
I've often wondered that myself. Vienna seems to be the most ignored of the more important European cities.

While that holds true for transatlantic services, VIE has (had) its fair share of Far East operations. Brussels, which is after all the capital of Europe, is still waiting for any kind of Far East service (not counting the on and off twice weekly BG BRU-DAC service).
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: Austrians US Plans

Sat May 27, 2006 1:26 pm

Quoting Misbeehavin (Reply 21):
Also, didn't OS used to fly VIE-ORD?

This was a A340-200 service that was stopped after 9/11.
 
JoFMO
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RE: Austrians US Plans

Sat May 27, 2006 2:48 pm

The problem iwth OS is that they have to show some profits. I am totally convinced by their strategy. But the best strategy doesn't help if you don't generate profits.
 
OSA330
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RE: Austrians US Plans

Sat May 27, 2006 3:29 pm

Webcam broadcasting the erection of new terminal and concourse at VIE

http://www.viennaairport.at/jart/prj3/via/data/webcam/cam1/aktuell.jpg

The new terminal will attract both passengers and airlines, but in this particular case (more US flights) I doubt that it will completely change the opinion of airline strategists. Furthermore, the expansion only improves the capacity of the passenger-related areas, the slot issue is still not solved.
 
andaman
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RE: Austrians US Plans

Sun May 28, 2006 3:10 am

Quoting Misbeehavin (Reply 21):

I've often wondered that myself. Vienna seems to be the most ignored of the more important European cities. There's WAW and PRG, but they're "Eastern" Europe so there are slightly different dynamics in play. And HEL, but Finland's got to be a miniscule market in comparision.

In Central-Europe the hubs are closer to you than in the Nordic area,
from HEL you have to fly quite a bit to reach the next proper international airport. The market situation is different.
HEL (capital area 1 milj.) is sure smaller than Vienna but wealthy as well, the GNP per capita in top 5 in EU  old 
Chinese cookie in SFO: "You're doomed to a life of forever travelling abroad and to be able to afford it!"
 
konrad
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RE: Austrians US Plans

Sun May 28, 2006 3:10 am

Quoting VORFMD (Reply 15):
This was for the ORD-VIE Route. I asked this because UA was in negotiations with OS to take over the IAD-VIE Flight from OS and OS should start VIE-ORD Flights. OS at that time was not willing doing this.

And I think they were right about it. Each time I took the flight (VIE-IAD) they were full in C class. A lot of international organization people (IAEA, and other) flying Vienna - Washington D.C. Having UA send a 763 out of ORD would suit OS much better.

I am shocked OS have 259 seats on a 763 - will not take them if they change the equipment, 332 to 763 on VIE-IAD.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Austrians US Plans

Sun May 28, 2006 3:55 am

Quoting Konrad (Reply 29):
I am shocked OS have 259 seats on a 763

I am too... DL doesn't even have that many on its domestic configured 763s.
 
newkai
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RE: Austrians US Plans

Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:27 pm

In regards to wide bodies being transfered to Austrian, at least one Lauda 767 is still out there. My mom flew it JFK-VIE the other day. I was surprised when she told me it was still painted in Lauda colors.
 
OHLHD
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RE: Austrians US Plans

Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:50 pm

Quoting VORFMD (Reply 15):
This was for the ORD-VIE Route. I asked this because UA was in negotiations with OS to take over the IAD-VIE Flight from OS and OS should start VIE-ORD Flights. OS at that time was not willing doing this.

OS does not have the A/C�s to operate a second daily JFK Flight AND a new VIE-ORD Flight beside of their daily IAD Flight. Apart from that they sold their 2 A342 and will only get one B772ER, so that means their Longhaulfleet has one A/C less.

So thats why i am thinking that there is maybe a good chance that UA takes the IAD-VIE Flights if OS goes to ORD.

SInce VRA,KIX ,CUN and the Dom Rep have been dropped there is enough equipment to go double daily JFK.

However some of these second flights to JFK have been cancelled recently.
 
FrancoBlanco
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RE: Austrians US Plans

Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:46 pm

The 3 NG 777s have been transferred to OS as well as 4 767s (OE-LAW, OE-LAY, OE-LAZ, OE-LAE). OE-LAT and OE-LAX stay with NG and are used on both long-haul and short-haul charter flights. I do not know whether there are plans to transfer them to OS, though. In addition, these two may pop up on OS scheduled long-haul flights from time to time.

AFAIK VRA, CUN, POP, PUJ have not been dropped forever, they are just intended as seasonal charters. I think you will see those destinations coming up again in winter 06/07.

Sebastian

[Edited 2006-06-02 13:50:11]
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